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The Snowdog

Benchmark Recovery Form Entries

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On the NGS benchmark recovery form, there's an option to post a note as GEOCAC (Geocaching). The Benchmarking FAQ also says that we can write recovery notes as GEOCAC.

 

Has anyone here actually done this? 

 

(sorry if this is a duplicate, I thought I had asked this a few months ago but can't find the post anywhere here on the forum)

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Many of us have used that designation for recovery reports for a long time.  You can see it on many data sheets.

 

When submitting to NGS keep it very businesslike-just the facts a surveyor would want to use to find it or to understand how carefully you looked before reporting NF. 

 

The old style was to be concise, but the current occupant of the "Deb Brown" chair will edit your report to complete sentences, spell out abbreviations, and insert metric conversions.  So make sure your report can't be misinterpreted by someone who doesn't have field experience.  If you use the form do your own metric conversions.

 

DSWORLD is a better way to go than the web form because it has a Fornat button that does much of that editing, and you can check the results before submitting.  I often re-edit its metric conversions to more appropriate significant figures, as I don't want my estimate of about 100 ft given to sub-meter precision.  You can also put your handheld GPS coordinates into it directly (xx.x on seconds) instead of just in the text.

 

When I started doing GPSonBM submissions GEOCAC wasn't an option (they don't expect geocachers to have precision GPS) so I started using Independent and Individual, which are the closest match on the two lists.

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OK, nice to know. I have never seen a GEOCAC entry on a data sheet but then again I usually just go by the info on the cache page and only look at data sheets for the detailed info on reference marks for triangulation stations and such. I will start watching for those. My habit for a long while is to just put better coords in my geo log entry (if appropriate) and provide good photos of the disk and of the setting. I suppose it would be appropriate to submit an entry if the benchmark hasn't had an official update in some time and has never been geo logged. Would that be appropriate?

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Well, I don't understand the new NGS pages,  Too techie for me.  But, if you check LY0424, you'll see that I logged it as GEOAC with my initials.  Not logged in 83 years.

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All, 

 

Bill93 hit the main point for a Bench Marker recovery  (technical NGS term - much more precise that a GEOCACHE 'found'):

 

"When submitting to NGS keep it very businesslike-just the facts a surveyor would want to use to find it or to understand how carefully you looked before reporting NF. "

 

I think that a 'recovery' should use the same DDDMMSS.s protocol as the DATASHEET.   And it only takes a couple of clicks to copy/paste a PID into the

National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer

search box to see the current status.

 

kayakbird  -  MEL

 

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On 10/10/2018 at 11:25 PM, The Snowdog said:

On the NGS benchmark recovery form, there's an option to post a note as GEOCAC (Geocaching). The Benchmarking FAQ also says that we can write recovery notes as GEOCAC.

 

Has anyone here actually done this? 

 

(sorry if this is a duplicate, I thought I had asked this a few months ago but can't find the post anywhere here on the forum)

Hi.  I found my first benchmark today and wanted to submit a recovery form, but the form (new?) doesn’t give me an option to post a note as GEOCAC.  Could someone please let me know what is currently used for the “Your Agency Type and Recovery Agency” selections?   Thank you for your help.

 

take care,

 

  outdoorsoccer

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Well as you can see from this thread (idle for a couple of years) I never got an answer, so I don't post "recovery" forms, just make geocaching log entries and try to post good photos of the mark.

  • Upvote 2

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1 hour ago, The Snowdog said:

Well as you can see from this thread (idle for a couple of years) I never got an answer, so I don't post "recovery" forms, just make geocaching log entries and try to post good photos of the mark.

I have only seen the GEOCAC listed on the NGS datasheets.  But the current recovery form doesn’t show any Heading like that in the drop down menus.  

sounds good.  Thank you for the response.  

 

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Posted (edited)

Geocaching has the options Found, Not Found , Note, and Destroyed. The focus there is on your activity, with the option to also alert others to the likelyhood it is destroyed or to note something of interest.

 

NGS has options that focus on the bench mark, not your experience looking for it. Thus the options are Good, Poor, and Not Found. Also Destroyed is an option available by sending conclusive evidence to NGS; they don't want to risk people marking Destroyed just because they couldn't find it. There is really no need for a Note option for their purposes.

 

It appears NGS has greatly expanded the list of agency codes.  GEOCAC appears under Miscellaneous.

Edited by Bill93
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9 hours ago, Bill93 said:

 

It appears NGS has greatly expanded the list of agency codes.  GEOCAC appears under Miscellaneous.

  I would have never guessed it would be under the miscellaneous commercial and private firm Category.   Thank you Bill93 for letting me know where it is. 

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Hi all,

 

  I tried to post a recovery form using google chrome and the NGS recovery form (lite version).  I followed the naming convention on the website for my photos.

 

  When I go to submit my form, I am getting an error that says: www.ngs.noaa.gov says:  Alias contains bad character(s).   
 

   Could someone please let me know what that means?  Thank you in advance for your help

 

    Take care,

 

    ODS

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16 hours ago, outdoorsoccer said:

Hi all,

 

  I tried to post a recovery form using google chrome and the NGS recovery form (lite version).  I followed the naming convention on the website for my photos.

 

  When I go to submit my form, I am getting an error that says: www.ngs.noaa.gov says:  Alias contains bad character(s).   
 

   Could someone please let me know what that means?  Thank you in advance for your help

 

    Take care,

 

    ODS

Hi all,

 

  heard back from NGS personnel:

 

“There was a bug in the form.  I make a change that should resolve the issue. “

 

I will try again and see what happens. 
 

-ODS

 

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Posted (edited)

Please keep in mind -

Unless you are a professional, and have the proper equipment, do NOT try to update the lat/lon or any other data about the station.

For hobbyists, the ONLY FIELDS you should fill out are the following:

 

  • PID: Enter this in, the form will load all other details.
  • Agency Code: L - Miscellaneous Commercial or Private Forms
  • Recovery Agency: GEOCAC
  • Date Recovered: The date you found the station (not making the report!)
  • Name & Email: This is not published, this is so you can be contacted in case there is an issue.
  • Suitable for GPS: Optional. Recommended that you leave as-is. If the station (the marker) is in a field or open lawn, with no objects extending 15-degrees above horizon all around the station, then this should be 'Yes'.
  • Condition: As a hobbyist, pick one of the following:
    • Good: You found the station and it looked to be undisturbed. (scrapes over the disk is fine. silt on top is also fine.)
    • Poor: You found the station, but somethig is wrong. (Disk is broken in half. Pieces missing. Cement post, or rock broken off or breaking off.
    • Not Recovered: Use this ONLY if you spent a good amount of time trying to recover it. A drive-by "I was looking out the window and didn't find it" is unacceptable.
    • The others should NOT be used without consulting a professional. (Surface Destroyed, Underground Destroyed, See Other).
  • Descriptive Text: Leave this blank, UNLESS:
    • You found it, and something significant has changed around the station from a previous NGS recovery. (i.e. A referenced road has moved. A new fence blocks easy location, new landscaping now blocks (professional) GPS usage, etc.) Any POOR stations should had a description test added as to WHY. (i.e. "Disk was found, but chunk of metal was missing. Iron bolt found, but top of bolt has been sheared off.)
    • You did NOT find it, and you spent a good amount of time trying to locate it. (i.e. You and a friend used a measuring taps, measured everything out and just could not locate it. Or - again, having measuing everything out, you find out that a new sidewalk is over where the mark should be.
    • You should never put any personal information in here (your name, phone number, email), nor Geocaching Links, handles, names, nor stories, (i.e. I don't wanna hear how you were walking your dog, and he took a piss on the telephone pole, and you happene dot have found this disk!)
  • C.O.P.: This stands for 'Chief Of Party', and should be your initials. (i.e. Mine are "MFM".) This is optional.
  • Pictures: Optional. If you submit, follow the photograph guidelines here: https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/surveys/photo_submissions/ If the form reports that pictures don't exist, it's recommended to upload pics, but still optional. (BenchMap will save pictures with this naming format, but resizing and adding labels will still be necessary.)
  • Capcha: Yup, you need to know math,

-Mike

 

Edited by foxtrot_xray

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, foxtrot_xray said:

Unless you are a professional, and have the proper equipment, do NOT try to update the lat/lon or any other data about the station.

 

While I agree most of the advice is good, this seems a bit too restrictive.

If you can update the To Reach information in a meaningful way, then certainly do so.

If the coordinates on the data sheet are SCALED, a sport GPS or a GPS app on a smart phone (HH2 accuracy) can be a worthwhile improvement. Never try to change ADJUSTED or GPS coordinates.

 

Edited by Bill93

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  • C.O.P.: This stands for 'Chief Of Party', and should be your initials. (i.e. Mine are "MFM".) This isoptional.

Thank you Foxtrot_xray and Bill93 for the information.    So what is the difference between the lite form and the regular form?  The lite form seems to be a shortened version of the recovery form, but it doesn’t have the C.O.P option (among others).  Was the lite form made for the geocacher or non-surveyor in mind?

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15 hours ago, Bill93 said:

 

While I agree most of the advice is good, this seems a bit too restrictive.

If you can update the To Reach information in a meaningful way, then certainly do so.

If the coordinates on the data sheet are SCALED, a sport GPS or a GPS app on a smart phone (HH2 accuracy) can be a worthwhile improvement. Never try to change ADJUSTED or GPS coordinates.

 

 

For the record, feel free to post HH2 coordincates in your recovery logs. I am referring to the Lat & Lon *fields*. Since (1) The person submitting the form can't select the method of the coordinates (Scaled, Adjusted, HH1, HH2, etc) when entering in new ones, and (2), the large majority of geocachers/hobbyists wouldn't know what to select of the list even if the dropdown was available, it can cause some real big issues if someone tried updating Lat/Lon fields when the station is Adjusted. :) Since there is no dropdown, there is no way for the person on the other side handling and verifying this information if the user used a commercial grade multi-band differential GPS, or a consumer-grade handheld unit. :)

 

12 hours ago, outdoorsoccer said:
  • C.O.P.: This stands for 'Chief Of Party', and should be your initials. (i.e. Mine are "MFM".) This isoptional.

Thank you Foxtrot_xray and Bill93 for the information.    So what is the difference between the lite form and the regular form?  The lite form seems to be a shortened version of the recovery form, but it doesn’t have the C.O.P option (among others).  Was the lite form made for the geocacher or non-surveyor in mind?

The 'lite' form was made for quick submissions, and yes, hobbyists. The 'lite' version *USED* to be the default, but since most of the folks using this form are commercial/professionals, they reverted it to the full. If you don't care about your initials showing up (not many folks care - the OLD form they were required, I believe) and just want to make sure people know that the station is still there (i.e. It was monumented in 1943, and there hasn't been a recovery *since then*, go ahead, put in a submission!)

I believe the COP should be on the lite form, and told the folks that they should add it, but they never did. :(

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