Change attributes - PRO/CON?

[+welleraj]

I own a multicache since 5 years. One task is to read numbers from an information board. Now the board has been removed. I think about changing this stage to read a NFC tag. This would also activate the corresponding attribute in the listing. Now my question is: delete the whole old listing and set up a new one, or just add the attribute? Personally, I tend to simply change the attribute: On the one hand, all previous finders would get the attribute "donated" (a rare one in my area), on the other hand I could keep the old listing alive including the applied favourite points.
What is your opinion?

 

Kind regards,

  Andreas

[+arisoft]

I would keep the cache and only change what is needed. I would try to preserve the idea and experience of the cache as near the original as possible.

 

I have one multi-cache wich had similar problems. One stage needed to read information from a sign which was removed. Because there was more stages left, I just added the missing information to the description. I have seen other COs to add an image of the missing sign on to the cache page.

 

In your case, if you can add a NFC tag without breaking saturation rules, you could also add small cache with the original text from the missing sign. The task is almost the same for the finder as previously.

 

Adding a new attribute do not break anything unless there is a challenge for caches without such attribute. If you go with the NFC tag just add the attribute because it is vital information.

[+cerberus1]

I'd start by temporarily disabling it until I had a game plan. 

A lot of favorite points, I'd simply use another attribute.  

I guess you have to figure whether the attribute would really be that big a deal, rare or not.

Another option, as I think airsoft  suggests,  is simply add a container with the needed info, and  save your nfc tag for a new cache.

[+dprovan]

Hey, I can talk to this! This happened to me. My decision was to change the stage while keeping the rest of the multi the same. If you mean the "virtual/physical" attribute for the stage, I actually did not change the attribute, either. I'm not going to explain why, but I will mention that you should feel free to change the attribute if you can.

 

Furthermore, I'll tell you that this approach did cause some confusion when a previous finder checked the stage on a whim and discovered the original sign based pointer was missing. She filed an NM pointing out it was broken. No big deal: I just filed an OM explaining that it had changed, and also sent that previous finder a note thanking her for the notice and explaining what had happened. It broke my heart when the original pointer disappeared, so I could only be thankful that someone else remembered how it used to be fondly enough to think I should know that it was broken.

[+K13]

Will adding the NFC tag at that location cause any proximity issues with other existing geocaches?   If that sign that formerly had the needed information is within 161 meters of any other physical waypoint of any other geocache you can't add the NFC tag.

[+The A-Team]

IMO, if you go the route of changing the stage of the current cache to one with an NFC tag, then you absolutely should add the beacon attribute. Some people may not have a device capable of reading those, so having the attribute will allow them to filter out the cache. Otherwise, they could get part of the way through the Multi and then discover that they can't get any further.

[+niraD]

What was the reason for this multi-cache?

 

If the reason was to take seekers to the sign, then I would archive the listing and submit a new listing.

 

If the reason was something else, something that doesn't change when you change this particular stage, then I'd just update the listing.

[+welleraj]

Hi!

Thank you very much for your opinions. I'm leaning towards only changing the attributes and not archive the whole listing. How would you adjust the difficulty level?  Basically, an NFC reader is "special-equipment" and thus according to the guideline's letters automatically D5. But since every profane mobile phone is now equipped accordingly, I think this is exaggerated. Currently it's rated D2...

 

Kind regards,

   Andreas

[+arisoft]

Without the beacon icon it could be D5 but with the icon you can forget the difficulty change. You do not need two different attributes for the same reason.

[+Goldenwattle]

11 hours ago, arisoft said:

I have one multi-cache wich had similar problems. One stage needed to read information from a sign which was removed. Because there was more stages left, I just added the missing information to the description.

I did that to one of my multies just a couple of days ago. It's a ten stage multi and building works have blocked off the area of one of the WPs. (Wetland work. I suspect the area will be very nice to visit when the work is completed.) I gave the numbers that would be found there. When the wetland work is finished and presuming the feature with the numbers is still there, I will delete the added numbers from the description. If one of the WPs set of numbers disappeared permanently, I would then decide whether to just give the numbers for that WP, or find another feature I could use. Depends what's available.

[+Isonzo Karst]

There are some issues here.  If your cache uses a Beacon, and there's no other way to get to the next stage, the cache type is MYSTERY.

The waypoint changes from virtual to physical.

 

See a couple of Help Center articles on this Mystery, scroll down to the Beacon entry.

Beacon

 

  I went to the Help Center over the issue of whether the D rating changes. It doesn't for Wherigo, ie, needing to be able to run the cart is NOT considered special equipment. But I didn't find anything on that.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

15 hours ago, K13 said:

Will adding the NFC tag at that location cause any proximity issues with other existing geocaches?   If that sign that formerly had the needed information is within 161 meters of any other physical waypoint of any other geocache you can't add the NFC tag.

 

This is a good point.   Placing a physical item where the sign was changes the stage from virtual stage to a physical stage.  You might as well place a small physical container or some other object which has the coordinates for the subsequent stage  

[+DerDiedler]

On 6.10.2018 at 1:32 PM, Isonzo Karst said:

If your cache uses a Beacon, and there's no other way to get to the next stage, the cache type is MYSTERY.

I don´t think so. For me it´ll be just an aditional field puzzle inside the multi cache.

 

I´ve seen a couple of caches with NFC tag and all of them where Multis.

I´d even find it missleading to list it as a Mystery, since I would expact some Puzzle work to do, prior to the outdoor adventure. 

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

IMO, if the NFC transmitter is the only way to get the coords to the next stage, the current cache should be archived, and a new one created. As has been mention above, the cache type would need to be changed, and the waypoint(s) changed from virtual to physical. To me, that is a substantial change. If the coords are posted at the site, and NFC is a convenient way to load the next set, then change the existing cache.

 

Another way to put it, did the base requirements to complete the multi-cache change? The first cache could be done with a GPS, while the second (assuming that NFC is required) requires more equipment. (Or a GPS with extra features.) 

[+arisoft]

8 hours ago, DerDiedler said:

I´ve seen a couple of caches with NFC tag and all of them where Multis.

I´d even find it missleading to list it as a Mystery, since I would expact some Puzzle work to do, prior to the outdoor adventure. 

 

I have seen multi-caches changed to mystery type in some cases when there is a problem with guidelines.Mostly the reason is this: "The cache cannot be found without research that goes beyond reading the cache page." Using Google or any other web-service goes beyond cache page. This is very simple rule to follow but forgotten sometimes.

 

NFC may fit to multi-cache because it is a simple field puzzle but this interpretation may vary. Reading QR-codes is similar problem as it also needs a special tool. I have seen QR-multi-caches so they are possible at least in some cases.

[+coachstahly]

I've seen NFC tag caches in both multis and unknowns.

[+J Grouchy]

You could add an NFC tag or even a QR code that directs people to an image of the sign (assuming there is an image)...just a thought.  

[+hzoi]

As far as changing the listing versus archiving and creating a new cache, the question the guidelines ask (yes, in the context of updating coordinates, but it's really about re-hiding a cache) is whether the fundamental nature of the cache changes or not.

 

I would say going from an info board to a chirp beacon/NFC tag changes it significantly from the usual "read sign, get numbers" multi, and I'd archive the old listing and publish anew.  If you feel otherwise, at the end of the day, it's your cache, your call.