What constitutes 'damage' to property?

[+icydee]

I have read the guidelines, but would like an opinion.

 

Would it constitute 'damage' to attach a geocache hide to a rotten log with two screws?

[+Viajero Perdido]

Is the log even "property", or just part of the common good?

[+icydee]

It's a felled tree, it's been there a long time.

 

Not sure what you mean by 'common good'.

 

Actually, I do understand the term. The point is the guidelines make no distinction between public,private or 'common-good'. Just a blanket point not to cause damage. I presume a strict interpretation would be that you can't even 'damage' private property, even with the owners permission.

 

Edited September 21, 2018 by icydee

[+Viajero Perdido]

Is it laying on public land?

[+icydee]

Public yes, insofar as the public has unrestricted access to it (of course all land in the UK is held by someone, even the local authorities). This land will be owned by the local authority.

[Keystone]

Two concepts:

1.  Live trees are more valuable "property" than dead logs lying on the ground.

2.  Permission is always an awesome thing.

[+Touchstone]

Common tactic used by environmental activists was my first thought of this idea:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

 

Tree clearing is pretty active in my area.  Could be a rude surprise to the work crew to have their chain saw accidentally intersect one of these screws.

[+L0ne.R]

Does it have to be screwed to the log? Would bungee cord or wire hold the cache in place? Here are some examples:

 

 

[+icydee]

Yes, I am aware of those options, but I can't see a way to make it work since this geocache will look like a fungus rather like the following.

 

The only other option is to find a tree with a natural hole which I can cover with the faux fungus which is attached with an internal clamp. I have not found such a site yet.

 

Edited September 21, 2018 by icydee

[+Touchstone]

Your best bet might be to approach the Land Manager with your idea. 

[+icydee]

yes, I have tried previously but they don't respond. I may have to visit their offices.

[+cerberus1]

2 minutes ago, icydee said:

I have tried previously but they don't respond. I may have to visit their offices.

 

Yep.  Some have taken us months to finally get permission.  

You may even find they have a geocaching policy in place, removing a lot of the guesswork.  

[+niraD]

56 minutes ago, icydee said:

The only other option is to find a tree with a natural hole which I can cover with the faux fungus which is attached with an internal clamp. I have not found such a site yet.

One of my Favorites is like that. The cache container fits nicely into a pre-existing hole in the tree and looks like it belongs there. That is a very viable approach.

[+colleda]

One thing to remember on seeing something screwed to a dead log is that some cachers could see it as meaning you can screw anything to anything, dead or not.

Edited September 23, 2018 by colleda
typo

[+NYPaddleCacher]

My impression has always been that "damage" would mean that if the cache is removed and one could tell that "something" had been placed there (not counting geotrails or other evidence left by finders) , it would be considered damage or defacement.   Screw holes, whether in a dead or live tree, would indicate that something was attached to the tree.  

[+Pork King]

Attachment method aside, have you considered how long the dead rotten log will be viable as a hiding spot?  A piece of wood, especially one that has already started to rot, tends to fall apart quickly, even without people searching all around/under it. 

[+Goldenwattle]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:26 AM, L0ne.R said:

Does it have to be screwed to the log? Would bungee cord or wire hold the cache in place? Here are some examples:

 

 

Ties, if they don't break first by the tree/branch growing will eventually cut into the wood, causing damage. They need to be checked regularly and loosened if necessary.

[+Goldenwattle]

23 minutes ago, Pork King said:

Attachment method aside, have you considered how long the dead rotten log will be viable as a hiding spot?  A piece of wood, especially one that has already started to rot, tends to fall apart quickly, even without people searching all around/under it. 

Fortunately here in Australia, most of our logs are hardwood and most places have a fairly dry climate. Not all, as we do have rainforest, alpine, etc too, as we have a varied climate, but dry dominates. Hardwood logs in dry climates last for many years, without showing rotting. They will usually far outlast a cache.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Found another one recently.  CO removed one screw holding the trail sign in place.  Drilled a hole into the post.  And hid a bison tube in the hole.  

[+justintim1999]

The fact your even asking this question is encouraging.   It tells me your thoughtful and care about how your actions are portrayed.    Three cheers to you. 

 

Like Keystone said.   "Permission is a awesome thing".     It covers all persons involved.   

 

Keep in mind that getting permission to do something doesn't always make it the right thing to do.   This is where you need to use your own good judgement to make the right call.