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Mineral2

Garmin GPSMAP 66 series announced on 2018-08-06

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5 hours ago, capt caper said:

Again I think your hanging with the wrong crowds..Ha.. most hikers I see on popular trails wear sneakers,no support gear and use cell phones..not my type... 

 

I've been mountaineering for 40 years.  The people I'm talking about are as serious as they come.

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5 hours ago, capt caper said:

Sorry but the current crop of phones aren't nearly as durable as a Garmin  handheld GPS..

43 minutes ago, Viajero Perdido said:

You sure?

 

If the "current crop" was only what the "selfie n shoot my salad for instagram" crowd carries,   maybe I'd agree. 

 - But like Viajero Perdido, I've also carried a mil-standard, ruggedized phone since samsung came out with the rugby in '08.  :)

 

 

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I chatted with Garmin this morning asking for directions to the release notes for the software/firmware for the 66 series.  Their response is below, but basically they said that release information only appears when people who have already purchased the unit update software/firmware.  They suggested someone with a unit post the release information they are shown when they update. So I was wondering if someone with a 66 would copy and paste the release notes here?  Thanks!  

 

 

From Garmin Chat:

The link you had provided was displaying the Release notes for a software that all Garmin customers/ users would use, ie... Garmin Express. The release notes for specific units will be privy to those updating the unit.

If you have a "friend" with a 66 series unit, Have them write about what changes are for their unit. They will see those before the installation of the update to the unit.

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8 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

I chatted with Garmin this morning asking for directions to the release notes for the software/firmware for the 66 series.  Their response is below, but basically they said that release information only appears when people who have already purchased the unit update software/firmware.  They suggested someone with a unit post the release information they are shown when they update. So I was wondering if someone with a 66 would copy and paste the release notes here?  Thanks!  

 

 

From Garmin Chat:

The link you had provided was displaying the Release notes for a software that all Garmin customers/ users would use, ie... Garmin Express. The release notes for specific units will be privy to those updating the unit.

If you have a "friend" with a 66 series unit, Have them write about what changes are for their unit. They will see those before the installation of the update to the unit.

 

 

I guess you're referring to Firmware Upgrade V2.40.  It's odd for them to not post the changes.   But I don't see such a list at this time.  Keep an eye on these sites for future information:

 

http://gpsinformation.net/allory/garfeat3.htm#gpsmap66

http://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_gpsmap66-firmware-upgrades_en.html

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44 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

 

I guess you're referring to Firmware Upgrade V2.40.  It's odd for them to not post the changes.   But I don't see such a list at this time.  Keep an eye on these sites for future information:

 

http://gpsinformation.net/allory/garfeat3.htm#gpsmap66

http://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_gpsmap66-firmware-upgrades_en.html

 

Yes, as noted above, they said the only way for those of us that have not yet purchased a 66 to know about bug fixes is for someone with a unit to post each time what they see before they update.  That seems to be what they are doing at those links.  However, one of those sites shows only that there is the initial release from August, no updates.  The other shows one update from 2.10 to 2.40 but does not provide a date or any information as to what was updated.  I think it might be easier, and more accurate, for someone here with a 66 to post specifics each time.

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4 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Yes I'm sure.. still a phone..rugged is subject-able...android,non battery change and life, can't load great maps into it and manage back and forth transfers of routes,favorites,tracks with ease. And many more.. The Ruby does all but is king of none..  All this has been covered.. I would not follow a so called hiker or mountain guy with one. 

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I have a dizzying variety of maps available in my phone (great app), including the world's best maps (which Red90 and I play a part in creating), but the best are also available for Garmins (notice how I'm steering this back on-topic?) including the new 66.

 

So I wouldn't pay any extra for a Garmin to have maps included out of the box.

 

Anyway, we're both happy in our own worlds.

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3 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

I chatted with Garmin this morning asking for directions to the release notes for the software/firmware for the 66 series.  Their response is below, but basically they said that release information only appears when people who have already purchased the unit update software/firmware.  They suggested someone with a unit post the release information they are shown when they update. So I was wondering if someone with a 66 would copy and paste the release notes here?  Thanks!  

 

 

From Garmin Chat:

The link you had provided was displaying the Release notes for a software that all Garmin customers/ users would use, ie... Garmin Express. The release notes for specific units will be privy to those updating the unit.

If you have a "friend" with a 66 series unit, Have them write about what changes are for their unit. They will see those before the installation of the update to the unit.

 

All firmware update information for the GPSMAP 66 will be published at GPSrChive as it becomes available.

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53 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

All firmware update information for the GPSMAP 66 will be published at GPSrChive as it becomes available.

 

I could not find anything specific there.  If you click the firmware link you get:  File not found (404 error)

The software page link has links to other software but no release information that I could see.

 

If GPSrChive was going to have release information doesn't it seem they would have something by now?  From what I can tell, version 4.10 was the release from August. It is now up to 4.40 and I have not yet seen any specifics of what the releases covered, here or at any of the sites I can find.

 

I was hoping to find was something like what Roboform, for example, does which is provide a web page with fixes, etc. as soon as they are released:

 

Start Page Version 8.5.5 -- Nov 19, 2018 
* Fixed opening of the RoboForm Start Page with empty user data list when user has no pinned items. 
* Show Popular/Recent/A-Z selector for 'Pinned' category. 
* Make 'Sharing' marker on an data item clickable.

Start Page Version 8.5.4 -- Nov 07, 2018 
* New design, with vertical navigator for object types. 
* Show Folders in Left navigator too -- click Home pull-down. 
* View and Edit your Logins, Identities and Safenotes from Start Page.

RoboForm Version 8.5.4 -- Sept 20, 2018 
* Fixed bug in cleanup of old data that could result in cleanup of new data, if custom folder location was used. 
* Localization: updated German, Japanese. 
* Fixed miss bugs found in ver 8.5.3.

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Hi, The current device firmware for GPSMAP 66 is version 2.10.

The GPS chipset latest firmware is 2.50 at the time of writing this post.

 

The GPS chipset firmware has nothing to do with the unit’s mapping or GUI.

 

The GPS chipset updates:

2.40: Improved overall GPS positional accuracy.

2.50: Improved GPS performance in Expedition mode.

 

https://imgur.com/a/sFD45JG

 

https://imgur.com/a/7msQE3j

 

None of you will see my posts for another three weeks. I’m probably wasting my time but anyway...

It still just crashes all the time in a manner that turns itself off, or requires you to pull the batteries out to reset it or it stays frozen on a screen.

Last night was the first time I took it in a car just to see a moving map. I had Dad driving for 20 minutes so I could play with it,

and didn’t see a map at all until we were home again. It froze at the “Loading Profiles” screen three times, and each time I had to pull the batteries out.

If it freezes while it’s making a beep sound, then that sound is continuous until you take the batteries out. Most annoying.

 

I have Garmin original SD Card with preloaded Topo Australia V6 map (no firmware hacking or pirated maps).

 

Yes it has micro USB, with enough potting compound surrounding it to suspect they could have fit mini USB,

Yes there is a PCB image circulating to suggest it does have a QFH antenna, no a QFH antenna is not a placebo.

It has qualities making it very suitable for GPS, such as circular polarisation, and inherent rejection of reflected signals

originating from below the horizon. 

The display is larger, and more vivid, but the unit is larger, and feels larger in your hand. It may not be as comfortable to hold for long periods.

 

In my view, it’s a paperweight, at least until it has some work to it’s device software.

I’d by no means trust it to even maintain a track log for a long hike without just turning off, or freezing.

Cheers.

 

 

Edited by _Art_

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3 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

 

I could not find anything specific there.  If you click the firmware link you get:  File not found (404 error)

The software page link has links to other software but no release information that I could see.

 

If GPSrChive was going to have release information doesn't it seem they would have something by now?  From what I can tell, version 4.10 was the release from August. It is now up to 4.40 and I have not yet seen any specifics of what the releases covered, here or at any of the sites I can find.

 

I was hoping to find was something like what Roboform, for example, does which is provide a web page with fixes, etc. as soon as they are released:

 

Start Page Version 8.5.5 -- Nov 19, 2018 
* Fixed opening of the RoboForm Start Page with empty user data list when user has no pinned items. 
* Show Popular/Recent/A-Z selector for 'Pinned' category. 
* Make 'Sharing' marker on an data item clickable.

Start Page Version 8.5.4 -- Nov 07, 2018 
* New design, with vertical navigator for object types. 
* Show Folders in Left navigator too -- click Home pull-down. 
* View and Edit your Logins, Identities and Safenotes from Start Page.

RoboForm Version 8.5.4 -- Sept 20, 2018 
* Fixed bug in cleanup of old data that could result in cleanup of new data, if custom folder location was used. 
* Localization: updated German, Japanese. 
* Fixed miss bugs found in ver 8.5.3.

 

Firmware 2.10 is the initial release version, and there have been no updates since, so there is nothing for them to display there yet. Where are you getting numbers like 4.10 and 4.40?

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56 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Firmware 2.10 is the initial release version, and there have been no updates since, so there is nothing for them to display there yet. Where are you getting numbers like 4.10 and 4.40?

 

4 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

I could not find anything specific there.  If you click the firmware link you get:  File not found (404 error)

The software page link has links to other software but no release information that I could see.

 

I see references to firmware version 2.10 installed in the factory GPSMAP 66, so it's not something to "update", it exists on the device. There's not a lot of info about further versions, but there's a conversation here that seems to say that version 2.40 (and maybe 2.50) were retracted by Garmin, although some people may have gotten the files in a way other than using Garmin Express. I may be way off in my assessment of that, my French is not good.  But if it was retracted, that would explain the broken links.  Anyway, there's not much of a firmware list to collect at the moment.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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Ah ha......

 

it appears to me many people are getting the GPS Software and GPSr Firmware numbers crossed.....

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2 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Ah ha......

 

it appears to me many people are getting the GPS Software and GPSr Firmware numbers crossed.....

 

Yup! I was just going to post that too! :-)

I'm up to date, Software version 2.1 and GPS version 2.5. 

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12 hours ago, kayl said:

 

Yup! I was just going to post that too! :-)

I'm up to date, Software version 2.1 and GPS version 2.5. 

 

Ah ha. Yes I was not thinking about both the firmware and software!

So Kayl, you are saying that you have software version 2.1 and firmware version 2.5?

I guess Garmin usually, eventually, does update both on their units to fix bugs?

Lastly are GPS software version 2.1 and Firmware version 2.5 the original versions released with the 66?

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9 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

 

Ah ha. Yes I was not thinking about both the firmware and software!

So Kayl, you are saying that you have software version 2.1 and firmware version 2.5?

I guess Garmin usually, eventually, does update both on their units to fix bugs?

Lastly are GPS software version 2.1 and Firmware version 2.5 the original versions released with the 66?

 

GPSMAP 66 GPSr Firmware v210 and GPS Software v250 are the current and initial releases, as shown at GPSrChive.

 

There were (of course) earlier versions of both, and depending on when each unit was released (different dates in different countries), they may have had a slightly older GPS Software installed, but to the best of my knowledge, the v2.10 Firmware is the initial shipping firmware. 

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The gps firmware and unit software numbers do not directly correlate. For example, on my Garmin Forerunner the software version is 4.2 while GPS version is 2.3. Connect IQ, Wi-Fi, ANT/BLE/BT versions are also all independent.

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I have been trying to find posts in other forums, posted reviews, etc., to see what others are saying.  I came across this video that focuses on issues when connecting your phone (via bluetooth) and app with the GPSMap66: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RA27cc_EEU 

Edited by lucia152

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Even copying and pasting that link does not work for me.  Just get the Youtube homepage.

 

Just tried again and won't work for me.  It is not a link in the post for me and when I copy and paste does not go to the video.  This is what I see in that post and what I am copying and pasting:  GPSMap66: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RA27cc_EEU

 

Strange.  I'll just try searching for it. Update - Found it. And now that I have visited the actual video, going to that url works.  Odd.  Must be something in my browser.

 

 

Edited by Cheminer Will

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11 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

Even copying and pasting that link does not work for me.  Just get the Youtube homepage.

Works for me. Make sure you're not getting that period after it.

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Any feedback on the "expedition mode"?  It sounds interesting.  I'm just wondering how it functions.

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On 12/1/2018 at 8:43 AM, Red90 said:

 

I've been mountaineering for 40 years.  The people I'm talking about are as serious as they come.

I wear Red Wing Irish Setters.

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On 12/1/2018 at 8:17 PM, _Art_ said:

Hi, The current device firmware for GPSMAP 66 is version 2.10.

The GPS chipset latest firmware is 2.50 at the time of writing this post.

 

The GPS chipset firmware has nothing to do with the unit’s mapping or GUI.

 

The GPS chipset updates:

2.40: Improved overall GPS positional accuracy.

2.50: Improved GPS performance in Expedition mode.

 

https://imgur.com/a/sFD45JG

 

https://imgur.com/a/7msQE3j

 

None of you will see my posts for another three weeks. I’m probably wasting my time but anyway...

It still just crashes all the time in a manner that turns itself off, or requires you to pull the batteries out to reset it or it stays frozen on a screen.

Last night was the first time I took it in a car just to see a moving map. I had Dad driving for 20 minutes so I could play with it,

and didn’t see a map at all until we were home again. It froze at the “Loading Profiles” screen three times, and each time I had to pull the batteries out.

If it freezes while it’s making a beep sound, then that sound is continuous until you take the batteries out. Most annoying.

 

I have Garmin original SD Card with preloaded Topo Australia V6 map (no firmware hacking or pirated maps).

 

Yes it has micro USB, with enough potting compound surrounding it to suspect they could have fit mini USB,

Yes there is a PCB image circulating to suggest it does have a QFH antenna, no a QFH antenna is not a placebo.

It has qualities making it very suitable for GPS, such as circular polarisation, and inherent rejection of reflected signals

originating from below the horizon. 

The display is larger, and more vivid, but the unit is larger, and feels larger in your hand. It may not be as comfortable to hold for long periods.

 

In my view, it’s a paperweight, at least until it has some work to it’s device software.

I’d by no means trust it to even maintain a track log for a long hike without just turning off, or freezing.

Cheers.

 

 

Finally!  Someone else who has reported that the screen freezes!!  I was beginning to think that I happened across the lemon of all lemons.  The first time it happened, I was unnerved (and glad I wasn't navigating out of the woods), but figured I would give it a hard reset and another chance.  When it happened again, I didn't need to see any more.  I am still bitterly disappointed.  Thank goodness Geoaching.com took it back, no questions asked; one heck of an expensive paperweight.

 

As for the size - I am petite, but found it to be a nice fit in my hand.  I have been using an Oregon 450 forever and while it was a different fit, it was still a nice, comfortable fit.  I never got to test it over the course of a few hours of use, but think that it wouldn't be an issue.  It has the same carabiner clip as my Oregon, so that made the feel even that much more familiar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by lucia152

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Hi :)

To be honest, more often than not, mine just turns off by itself, but occasionally, and especially that time int he car, it freezes and needs batteries removed.

There’s more than one way I can make it turn off, and one of those is to zoom out pretty far, and then I won’t be able to move the map with the D pad much until it powers off.

 

I’d like to see the 3D view implemented for DEM maps as the Oregon has, but not before they fix what is done so far.

 

The size, I’m used to GPSMAP 6x series for years, so it’s a different feeling holding this. The GPSMAP 6x with no attachments (but slip case) I’d call real comfortable to grip,

but I understand anyone who would prefer the larger screen anyway. I wouldn’t though. I’d rather the hardware essentially the same, but shrunk down to usual 6x size,

and still to have the usual slip case available (which doesn’t appear to be happening for 66).

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I must be lucky, because I haven't had the issues described here yet. I even tried to replicate a glitch video on YouTube with no results. Mine has been rock solid for tracks; I've turned it on and gone about several 12 hour day with 70-80 miles driven and perfect tracks. I will typically just leave it plugged in when I'm in the car, so maybe that's why I haven't seen the issues?

Edited by kayl

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That video is probably mine. I made a bad call on the QFH antenna early on, but think it was fair, given it’s also the first time Garmin hasn’t specifically used it as a selling point.

If it was shown definitely not to have one, I’d have taken it back for a refund for sure. I think one of the videos makes it clear why, and I have other GPS units with exchangeable

antennas to compare various antennas for the same GPS device.

 

Just tried again today, and moving the map at low zoom froze it so batteries had to be removed, and going into the recording menu, and moving left to see the altitude profile

caused it to power off once that menu was exited (as it always does for me).

 

There’s an error log file in the device’s storage that is appended with errors, but the register values are always all zeros, so I don’t suppose it’s useful debug info to sent to Garmin.

 

Funny enough address search using the “find” button started working, but I don’t know if I did anything differently. Even if I was using the built in lite version topo map with no auto routing,

I’d still expect to be able to find an address, and just not be able to route to it. In one case it did work, it did power off while routing to a found address though, or immediately after calculating the route).

 

Totally off topic: A thought occurred to me. E-paper displays! Even if it meant a GPS mapping device was monochrome, wouldn’t E-paper display make the ultimate outdoor GPS?

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, _Art_ said:

Totally off topic: A thought occurred to me. E-paper displays! Even if it meant a GPS mapping device was monochrome, wouldn’t E-paper display make the ultimate outdoor GPS?

 

 

 

 

Interesting thought. The new inReach Mini has a MIP (Memory In Pixel) display that is similar to e-paper displays. But it doesn't have to update the screen very often.

 

For most GPSr users, I would think when they are looking at the screen, they are needing to see data update at a rate much faster than e-paper is capable of.

 

What screen on your GPSr would be useful for you, if it were on all the time, but never changing?

 

Best way to save battery power with current line-up is to use lowest possible backlight brightness and turn the screen off when not using it. The current crop of screens are so brilliant in direct sunlight they require zero backlight, yet I think many users forget the backlight is still on, using battery power needlessly.

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11 hours ago, _Art_ said:

Even if I was using the built in lite version topo map with no auto routing,

I’d still expect to be able to find an address, and just not be able to route to it.

Finding location by address only works if the map has address data embedded within. The lite topo map for Australia may be different, but in the US, there is no such data within the map.

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On 11/26/2018 at 4:37 PM, Mineral2 said:

Garmin seems to be fairly conservative when it comes to updating technology in general. Do the automotive units use USB-C? As far as I know, they don't yet. But in general, Garmin's technology is going to be behind that of smartphones, for better or worse. It took Garmin a long time to fully adopt the USB standard in general, and even though a few of those mid-2000's units had a USB port, it still carried Garmin's proprietary serial connection. It wasn't until ~2008 that they finally adopted the full USB standard and allowed for mass storage


There may have bee some rational thinking on keeping the Mini-B on these longer than most of the industry. It was easier to find ruggedized versions of that connector as it was just plain physically larger and had more metal to work with. Waterproof Micro-B's were never really common. That said, Mini-B was still a terrible connector for reliability, Micro-B is rated for more connection/removal cycles but tends to move the shear point to destroying the cable ($) instead of the connector in the device ($$$$). Fortunately for *MOST* users, phones tend to be used like toothbrushes, charged or connected a few times a day, so they benefitted from the Micro-B while the lower volume and less common repair facilities and the ability to hose out dirt kept Mini B common in GPSes.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb

For most devices (I'm looking at you, Bluetooth speakers, and of course, Apple devices) USB-C can't take over the world soon enough, but I know it's just plain more expensive to do USB-C right. I'm more forgiving of that on a $.99 book light than I am in a $700 GPS receiver - those SHOULD have been moved to USB-C years ago.

 

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9 hours ago, robertlipe said:

For most devices (I'm looking at you, Bluetooth speakers, and of course, Apple devices) USB-C can't take over the world soon enough, but I know it's just plain more expensive to do USB-C right. I'm more forgiving of that on a $.99 book light than I am in a $700 GPS receiver - those SHOULD have been moved to USB-C years ago.

 

 

I thought the same thing when  I first saw the micro-USB connector on my MAP 66. I just can't imagine why in the world Garmin didn't just skip the 'micro-USB' and jump directly to USB-C. Maybe on the next model. (sigh)

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On 12/8/2018 at 3:35 AM, Mineral2 said:

Finding location by address only works if the map has address data embedded within. The lite topo map for Australia may be different, but in the US, there is no such data within the map.

My 64st and 66st both came preloaded with Top Australia and NZ V5 Lite, which is interesting, because V6 became available some months before the 66 was available.

They are both the same file size, and the 64 can find an address with only the V5 lite map enabled (just tried today), where the 66 could not.

I haven’t checked the 66 again since address search started working with it.

 

For the 64, it may not go to the actual street address number I specified, but it does display the correct street in a map view.

 

 

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The bug I’m experiencing with the recording menu, I’ve nailed down to the elevation profile display.

When I got it to record a short track, you can also go into saved tracks, and similarly move sideways through some information screens about the track,

one of which is an elevation profile. Any playing around in that screen works, but powers off once exiting the menu back to the usual map view.

 

 

Edited by _Art_
added video

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1 hour ago, _Art_ said:

The bug I’m experiencing with the recording menu, I’ve nailed down to the elevation profile display.

When I got it to record a short track, you can also go into saved tracks, and similarly move sideways through some information screens about the track,

one of which is an elevation profile. Any playing around in that screen works, but powers off once exiting the menu back to the usual map view.

 

 

That is a known bug (one I can not duplicate), hopefully will be resolved in next release.

 

I see BirdsEye Satellite Imagery enabled on the Map Page, what is the source for those files?

Edited by Atlas Cached

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Why not create a compact version of the GPSMAP 66, without the protruding Quad-Helix antenna?

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2 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

That is a known bug (one I can not duplicate), hopefully will be resolved in next release.

 

I see BirdsEye Satellite Imagery enabled on the Map Page, what is the source for those files?

 

The Birdseye imagery was downloaded with Basecamp with a 64st connected. The imagery isn’t locked to a device until it’s sent from your PC to a device.

The same is stated at the end of this document: https://www8.garmin.com/maps/birdseye/pdfs/BirdseyeUsersGuide_EN.pdf

I used previously downloaded data and sent to the 66 from there. It makes no difference though (although I initially thought otherwise) if imagery is enabled or not.

The issues with panning a map at low zoom, or this one above happen just the same. 

 

If Birdseye imagery isn’t valid for a device (if it were just copied from SD card of another unit), it simply doesn’t work, and you also get a warning of this at startup.

 

53 minutes ago, jakewa said:

Why not create a compact version of the GPSMAP 66, without the protruding Quad-Helix antenna?

 

For improved sensitivity, and some of it’s inherent quality, in the end, amounts to better accuracy. I’m sure Garmin would if it weren’t for the sacrifice.

For GPS, and just about any other sat antenna, they are better in every way. Easy to observe with any GPS module that allows you to switch between multiple antennas.

 

 

Edited by _Art_

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5 hours ago, luvvinbird said:

Anyone know what Canada topo version comes with the 66st? 

 

I believe it is a US and Canada 100K map but someone will correct if only one or the other.

 

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Thank you Cheminer Will. Yes, it is both. I was hoping the Canada portion would be beyond version 4 which has been around for quite awhile. Perhaps there's no real way of finding out.

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12 minutes ago, luvvinbird said:

 I was hoping the Canada portion would be beyond version 4 which has been around for quite awhile.

 

For trails, you really want a map based on OSM. Any map merely built off the free government data will be worthless, or even hazardous.

 

(I'm on a crusade to get/keep the garbage data out of OSM...)

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1 hour ago, Cheminer Will said:

 

I believe it is a US and Canada 100K map but someone will correct if only one or the other.

Well isn't that nice. Previous (t) models in the US did not include canada on them.

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2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Well isn't that nice. Previous (t) models in the US did not include canada on them.

 

They still do not.

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42 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

They still do not.

 

I don't have a 66st yet so am not positive and it is a bit confusing as different sites say different things.  But, the Garmin site seems to say both are on the 66st, not one or the other depending where you purchase the unit. I am not sure if luvvinbird a few posts back actually has a 66st but he also says both U.S. and Canada are included.  Maybe someone in the U.S. with a 66st can check to see if they also have Canada on their basemap?

Edited by Cheminer Will

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And one more bit of information that may help those deciding between a 66s and a 66st.  Jon at his Switchbacks forum made the following note in response to a question about his maps and the 66s vs. the 66st:

 

Quote

I'm inclined to go with the st version since that includes a built-in DEM model, which allows for hillshading and elevation profiles of tracks that don't include elevation data.

 

Edited by Cheminer Will

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6 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

 

I don't have a 66st yet so am not positive and it is a bit confusing as different sites say different things.  But, the Garmin site seems to say both are on the 66st, not one or the other depending where you purchase the unit. I am not sure if luvvinbird a few posts back actually has a 66st but he also says both U.S. and Canada are included.  Maybe someone in the U.S. with a 66st can check to see if they also have Canada on their basemap?

 

I dunno. My 66st Topo 100k map doesn't seem to have any of Canada, unless they moved their borders recently...

 

The 'Basemap' you mention is just that, a very basic map, with very little information or detail, that all Garmin units have, and is next to useless.

 

1882883355_TOPO100kv6(GPSMAP66st).png.800ec3b16898e0938041201df83ef81c.png

Edited by Atlas Cached

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6 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

And one more bit of information that may help those deciding between a 66s and a 66st.  Jon at his Switchbacks forum made the following note in response to a question about his maps and the 66s vs. the 66st:

 

"I'm inclined to go with the st version since that includes a built-in DEM model, which allows for hillshading and elevation profiles of tracks that don't include elevation data."

 

That is another excellent reason to spring for the extra $50.

Edited by Atlas Cached

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So it's settled, if you want the ST version, go to Canada and buy one. 

As far as shading and elevation - it's sometimes nice to have the elevation profile of your route ahead of you, but I don't know if it's worth the extra $50. And shading.... well, I've actually turned shading off because it was making the Northwest Topos map harder to read and slowing down map drawing.

Here's the thing, though. If you already own an older T model, the basemap can be transferred to your new unit. It's not locked. That's true, at least, if you have an Oregon 450t or a 62st. 

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13 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

For trails, you really want a map based on OSM. Any map merely built off the free government data will be worthless, or even hazardous.

 

Garmin's Topo Canada is not based only on free government data....  Have you actually used it?  It uses the government topographic information, but road and POI are not from the government maps.  They use road data up to date as of the release.

 

OSM is improving, but it is still a mess, full of very incorrect information, especially on trails.

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I think what Viajero Perdido is referring to are the trails. Trail data on USGS topo quads isn't very accurate, nor up to date, except maybe in the national parks. But the trail lines on USGS quads, for the most part, are approximations of the trail location, smoothed out and, in some cases, not updated for trail reconstructions and movements.

This trail data has made its way onto many of our digital maps, including OSM and Garmin's Topo 100k as the default was to simply trace the USGS data until a better source was provided.  Thus there are many of us here that like to upload our tracks onto OSM and correct any trail information that needs to be fixed. That said, a single GPS track is prone to errors as well. There are several times I've noticed my own track diverging from the visible trail on the satellite maps. So if you're going to edit and add data to OSM, do so carefully.

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2 minutes ago, Red90 said:

Garmin's Topo Canada is not based only on free government data....  Have you actually used it?

 

Not for many years.  I still remember it trying to route me across the Athabasca River on a nonexistent bridge.  That was hard on the car (horrible approach I'd have otherwise never attempted), and an utter waste of time.

 

2 minutes ago, Red90 said:

OSM is improving, but it is still a mess, full of very incorrect information, especially on trails.

 

I think much of that incorrect info is the old government data!  Trails need to be on the correct side of the river, for example.  It's easy to import garbage trail data (CanVec), but much more labor-intensive to remove it.  You really need to check on the ground: is there really a trail here?  Because you can't be sure, just checking the satellite view.

 

Anyway, if Garmin isn't including OSM maps, at least as an option, I think they should be.  (I thought I'd heard they do in certain areas.)

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