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The Snowdog

Category Proposal - Rods of Asclepius

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Rod of Asclepius - a serpent-entwined rod associated with healing, health care, and medicine; often seen on medical buildings.

 

So this isn't a category (yet) and I think it would make an interesting one. I've not done this before. I suppose if I want it I have to recruit a couple of members and convince someone to be an "officer" and manage it; then we can propose it and see if it flies. Any takers?

 

And if this works, we'll do Caduceus as well, if some one can tell me what the plural of "Caduceus" might be.

Edited by The Snowdog

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They may not be as prevalent as I thought. Today while driving around I looked for them where I expected to see them, but found nothing.  Maybe I was looking in the wrong part of town.

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35 minutes ago, vulture1957 said:

don't forget Starbucks!

 

3 hours ago, The Snowdog said:

Over prevalence? In a game where "McDonalds" and "Wal-Mart" are categories?

But those categories were approved long before our current criteria, right?

Today's categories are voted on by today's criteria, of  which prevalence is a factor.  I have suddenly started posting in a lot of prevalent categories, cuz, well, I need them for my hunts.  I'm suddenly glad they're an option. 

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In peer review. Since there are currently no categories in peer review I can't cut and paste the criteria. I'm sure someone knows where it is.

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Waymark Category Criteria: 

 

There are certain guidelines you should follow when reviewing this new category. Most importantly, we ask that you set aside your personal feelings for a moment and objectively reflect on this category's suitability for placement in the directory. Before we get started, however, remember that duplicate categories should be disqualified from the start.

 

Global - The directory has the potential for worldwide appeal, but only if the categories are not too restricted by region. Consider whether people from all over the world will be able to contribute to this category. We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories. 

Prevalence - How many potential waymarks exist throughout the world? Too few and the category may be of little or no interest to anyone. Too many and you may end up with a category full of mundane, everyday locations. 

 

Interesting or Informative - In general, good categories can be classified in one of two ways. Interesting: Can you imagine yourself sifting through the gallery for compelling and entertaining images, or making a special trip to visit a waymark in this category? Informative: On the flipside, you may not exclaim "Wow!", but perhaps you or someone else might find the waymarks in this category useful in some way. These waymarks can aid in accomplishing an everyday task more efficiently, or serve to gather enlightening information about a commercial location which may or may not be available from traditional sources. 

 

Redundant - Could this category be included as a variable in an existing category? For instance, let's say this new category is called "Blue Lighthouses". But, wait! There may already be a "Lighthouses category". Would it make more sense to add a variable for different colors in the "Lighthouses" details?


If you have suggestions for the category manager please include them in the provided comment field. Suggestions can range from spelling corrections to variable additions, or a simple "Way to go!" 

 

Please keep in mind that these are only guidelines offered to help you frame your reasoning. A good category may not meet all of the requirements, but a great one will!
 

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Hmmm. So published, but only some of the time, and in a place that's only available AFTER a new category has been submitted.

 

And also, apparently, ignored; one of the criteria is "Global" yet a very recent category is L56 "Belgian Monument Registers." There are four such nation-restricted categories in the last two rows of the grid. Another is "Redundant" yet we have the recently created B55 "Graves Listing A Cause Of Death" to go along with the bazillion other grave-related categories.

 

Not complaining, mind you - I am fine with all of them. You could throw in "Pink Headstones" and "City of Edmond Survey Markers" ( I have a thick binder full of 'em!) for all I care. Just looking for guidance here.

Edited by The Snowdog

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On September 1, 2018 at 10:53 PM, The Snowdog said:

Caduceus

 

Concerning the Caduceus symbol, would acceptable sites include only those where the symbol is a quasi-medical site or any place the symbol is used?

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My thought is to just say that the symbol is typically found in medical settings, but not exclusively. Any appearance of the symbol would be fine with me.

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23 hours ago, The Snowdog said:

Over prevalence? In a game where "McDonalds" and "Wal-Mart" are categories?

McD: 13 years ago! 

Walmart: almost 12 years ago (and the first one STILL has no visits!)

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1. I recommend hashing everything out in the forums before submitting the category to peer review. Some questions have not been answered.

2. I might be missing it, but I cannot find the management group in Newest Groups so I don't know who the officers are. YES, it matters, in case you were wondering. Many times officers with zero experience reviewing waymarks, sometimes no way marks posted or visited were listed in a category up for review. It matters! Like Bytor (if the Rogues are the group) who has zero experience. 

 

Edited by Max and 99

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1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

1. I recommend hashing everything out in the forums before submitting the category to peer review. Some questions have not been answered.

2. I might be missing it, but I cannot find the management group in Newest Groups so I don't know who the officers are. YES, it matters, in case you were wondering. Many times officers with zero experience reviewing waymarks, sometimes no way marks posted or visited were listed in a category up for review. It matters! Like Bytor (if the Rogues are the group) who has zero experience. 

 

I agree absolutely with #1. Category was sent to Peer Review before the discussion at the forum was finished.

Yes the managing group is Rogues of Waymarking including only non experienced officers (posts: zero, 14 and 66 - not much).

 

To the category idea itself:

I think there is a prevalence problem: in Germany every pharmacy's sign includes this symbol.I have posted 143 waymarks in the Pharmacies category. So I can cross-post all of them into the new category! And most of them more than one time because they usually have more then one sign. And category description does not say a word about more than one waymark per site. This sounds like Redundancy to me.

And I don't think that all of this signs (at pharmacies, doctors, hospitals) are really interesting. Sorry!

 

==> I will vote NAY at the Peer Review!

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Here is what I wrote in Peer Review...

This needs to be fleshed out more - no long description required?  does this need to be carved into the building or is a lighted sign considered "permanent"?  What if the Rod is not on a building - what is the point of reference if a second photo is not required?  Is a caduceus acceptable, since this is more common in the United States as opposed to the Rod of Asclepius (subtle difference between one snake and two snakes intertwined BUT you have only talked about the single snake Rod of Asclepius in your primary description which would make the double snake caduceus deniable and require a second Waymarking category.)  This isn't ready for peer review.  I would recommend looking at other Waymarking categories that have been approved recently.  Why is this not a redundant category with Hospitals and with Pharmacies, also?

 

Any time that someone brings up that "Wal-mart and "McDonalds" were approved as categories, why is my category being dinged for prevalance?,  I have to laugh and then go check to see when, exactly the person started to waymark.  I appreciate the fact the the waymarker in question is a long time geocacher, but a relatively new waymarker.  I'm not sure that the waymarker in question was around, though, back in the day for the switch-over from locationless geocaches to Waymarking.  The waymarker does not have any locationless caches so I assume that the locationless caches were archived before the waymarker/geocacher started.  Both of these categories (Walmart and McDonald's along with a crap-ton of the commercial categories) were created back in 2006 when Waymarking was new; there weren't the controls there are now for the community to vote for new categories.  Unfortunately, that was then, this now. 

If you want a category approved, you have to follow the rules in place now - not the rules in place 12 years ago.  Prevalance, Globality, Interest, Redundancy - these are the four items one has to think about, address and overcome when creating, writing, and submitting a new category to Peer Review.  Hopefully, the category has been completely fleshed out first in the forum to allow experienced waymarkers to assist - I did that with the single category I created a over year ago, and I have been Waymarking since it started.  Do not take anything said here or in Peer Review personally - it's about the new category, not it's not about you personally.  People have the tendency to think that because they are finding flaws in their category, they somehow finding flaws in their person.   Again, nothing stated above is personal - it is just fact.

 

I really hope the above helps.  I also hope it helps future waymarkers who are trying to get categories approved.  

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So this has certainly been a learning experience. To address some questions above:

 

Max/99 and Tante.Hossi worry that it "hasn't been discussed in the forums." When I submitted the category, there had been no new posts here for over a week, and as far as I can tell all questions asked had been addressed.

 

Tante.Hossi also complains that the managing group is "inexperience." So are the veterans going to lock submissions down and just freeze out the newcomers?

 

iconions pointed out the lack of a long description. Since there are no guidelines for descriptions, I looked at several categories and followed what others had done. If there needs to be more in the description, I would be happy to add it.

 

I addressed the four criteria in my voting post; you can read it there. The proposed category is common enough that you can find them, but rare enough (and usually out of the way enough) that you'd have to put in some effort to find them. That to me is a characteristic of a good Waymarking category. I see a comment that they're on "every pharmacy sign in Germany." That's not true everywhere, by any means; I rarely see this symbol on a sign that's visible from the street in the USA.

 

In short, I wouldn't have proposed it if I didn't think it would make a good category. Thanks for reading this.

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Will you try again with a group dedicated to a certain kind of waymark rather than trying to "be a thorn in the side" of the Waymarking comunity (your words in the description of your group)?  

 

Edited by elyob
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This question is to all.  Can we consider a category that is over-prevalent in Europe while under-prevalent in the US and Canada?

 

In other words, I am actually hoping for comments from Australia and New Zealand.

Edited by elyob

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I never look at the grid. As soon as I can find it, I may comment on those categories. Until then, I'll keep looking for it.

I found it!

Edited by Max and 99

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9 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

I note that the last four rows in the grid have nation-specific waymarks.

 

And there are LOTS of US specific categories too.

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3 hours ago, The Snowdog said:

So this has certainly been a learning experience. To address some questions above:

 

Max/99 and Tante.Hossi worry that it "hasn't been discussed in the forums." When I submitted the category, there had been no new posts here for over a week, and as far as I can tell all questions asked had been addressed.

 

Tante.Hossi also complains that the managing group is "inexperience." So are the veterans going to lock submissions down and just freeze out the newcomers?

 

iconions pointed out the lack of a long description. Since there are no guidelines for descriptions, I looked at several categories and followed what others had done. If there needs to be more in the description, I would be happy to add it.

 

I addressed the four criteria in my voting post; you can read it there. The proposed category is common enough that you can find them, but rare enough (and usually out of the way enough) that you'd have to put in some effort to find them. That to me is a characteristic of a good Waymarking category. I see a comment that they're on "every pharmacy sign in Germany." That's not true everywhere, by any means; I rarely see this symbol on a sign that's visible from the street in the USA.

 

In short, I wouldn't have proposed it if I didn't think it would make a good category. Thanks for reading this.

You can look at my Cemetery Chapels category as the one I did from scratch as one template.

I also just completely redid the Victorian Houses category (now called Victorian Style Architecture because the category ALWAYS accepted commercial and public buildings.  Not just houses.) as another template.  I'm not saying this is right or wrong - just the way I do them.  Everybody is different.

 

You are correct, there isn't a "standard" template or guidelines to write up a new category.  You also realize just from the feedback you have received that the more detail that you put into your description, the better your waymarks in the category are going to be; and the less questions and the fewer votes you and your officers are going to have to resolve.  You have to have incredible detail when writing these categories up.  What exactly do you want the person putting a waymark into your category to do.  If you aren't completely detailed in what YOU think is the acceptable waymark in your category, then you are letting the person putting in the waymark dictate what is acceptable.  Does that make sense?  That's why there can't be guidelines on how to write these things up.  What I find acceptable, what other waymarkers find acceptable, may not be what YOU find acceptable in YOUR category.  Remember, the person putting in the waymark CANNOT read minds - you may know exactly what you want, but unless you put onto the page EXACTLY what you want and how you want it, the waymarker is going to do the BAREST of minimums to get the waymark approved.

 

Note in my two example categories that I am very specific on how I want Titles, how I want long descriptions, my stance on plagiarism, the exact photos I require, etc.  If a waymarker puts in a proposed waymark that doesn't meet those specific requirements, there cannot be any argument because there isn't any gray areas - I will deny the waymark with the specific reason why and ask that the waymark be brought up to standard..  Did you, Mr or Ms Waymarker, fulfill the minimums of what I have on my page on what I feel is the proper waymark in this category?  That is all I was trying to get across in my posting earlier.  I hope that this posting clarifies further.  :)

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The concept for this category does not interest me, but I did find both the Rod of Asclepius and the caduceus on a headstone earlier this year. simply providing this is as an (isolated) example of finding these symbols in non-medical settings (although the deceased was a medical practitioner)

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMY72B_Dr_Michael_Robert_King_Kingston_Ontario

If you do proceed, please make it a single category. or could always try for a Symbol Multifarious category :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, Bon Echo said:

The concept for this category does not interest me, but I did find both the Rod of Asclepius and the caduceus on a headstone earlier this year. simply providing this is as an (isolated) example of finding these symbols in non-medical settings (although the deceased was a medical practitioner)

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMY72B_Dr_Michael_Robert_King_Kingston_Ontario

If you do proceed, please make it a single category. or could always try for a Symbol Multifarious category :ph34r:

 

You found both symbols on one monument.  Well done.  Visiting the National Military Cemetery yesterday, I found some examples of Asclepius.

 

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I highly recommend reviewing the peer review comments and discussing the issues presented. Respectfully. Without making it personal.  You can start anytime or wait till after peer review is completed tomorrow night. 

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On 9/15/2018 at 12:24 AM, Max and 99 said:

I highly recommend reviewing the peer review comments and discussing the issues presented. Respectfully. Without making it personal.  You can start anytime or wait till after peer review is completed tomorrow night. 

Well played!

 

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