Event for local animal shelter?

[+LaserTuna]

Hi!

 

I'm keeping this original post updated to minimize scrolling.  I'm italicizing edits and notes.  Please debate my ideas with me so this sees its best and most "above board" iteration.

 

I've looked at the rules and it sounds like this is fine as long as we don't use branding or use the geocaching.com event descriptions to promote the shelter (which isn't the point, we already have social media), but I was hoping for some best practices or advice on how best to do this -- or, I guess, stop me if it breaks the rules. 

 

We live in a small town and my wife runs the local animal shelter.  There are actually a surprising number of caches here, but it seems like maybe mostly a handful of seasoned cachers who put out a bunch of traditional caches.  There's also a big blank spot all around this shelter.

 

So, here's what we're thinking, assuming we get all approvals etc.  Note also that public property shouldn't be a problem because we have relationships with city council.

 

- We would hold an event cache probably at the shelter.  We want to advertise this on social media to 1) attract new (especially young) cachers and 2) bring people to the shelter. (Note: I'm talking about social media advertisement of the event, not the event.  The goal is to attract new cachers in a beautiful rural community by giving them a weekend event to attend.  I don't plan on including advertisement of the shelter in the geocaching.com event.)

- The event would be by-donation The event would start early in the morning.  You'd get a game card or something, and get to sign a logbook (not required for event cache, but we can recognize our donors/participants which is part of the point).  If donations are typically solicited at the starting point, unrelated to the event cache, is that a problem?  It's part of shelter operations, has nothing to do with the event, and is definitely not required.  Can I say something about it in the event description, like "Heads up: Since this is a nonprofit, donations are solicited here as part of daily operations.  You definitely do not need to donate to participate in the event cache."?)  Am I even allowed to hold it in this location if they accept money at all?  This seems poorly defined.  The rules are brief at the cost of clarity.

- We will set up ahead of time with a series of caches that are pet-friendly, "Dog-walker's Circuit Series" or something like that.  They will form a circuit from the shelter to the dog park and back (probably.  This makes most sense.)  These will contain game pieces (for competitive fun).  Low terrain but I have some ideas for tricky hides.  (The circuit may need to be inverted to accommodate the event cache.  If we get an unexpected amount of turnout at the shelter, it will be a problem.)

- Around noon, we will break out a by-donation BBQ at the shelter, so our returning hungry cachers (floofy and not floofy) can grab a bite and turn in game cards through the afternoon.  (Is it or is it not a problem?  For instance, I attended an event in a restaurant -- they sell food.  They didn't halt operations for us.  If it's not part of the listed event on geocaching.com, does it break the rules?  Participation in the event is not required for the BBQ, and in that respect they are mutually exclusive?)

- Prizes will probably be shelter swag, service coupons, ribbons, I guess I'm not sure yet.  I don't even know if we will keep score.  (Is there a guideline for this?)

- After the event, there will continue to be a sweet dogwalking circuit for geocachers maintained by me/my wife/shelter staff.  <- the caches will remain in place.  Sorry if this was confusing.

 

So, my questions:

- is this allowed?  If not, what changes required?

- what's the best way to approach the cache series/game pieces?  I've seen these as either traditional or multi in events I have been to.  Which is better here?  Why?

- For game pieces, I was just going to stick scrabble tiles on the inside of container lids.  Thoughts?

- Are there guidelines on competition prizes for event caches?

- What's the word on the BBQ?

- suggestions? Better ideas?  Please share!

 

Thanks,

-lt

Edited August 28, 2018 by LaserTuna
clarifications, revisions

[+Touchstone]

All sounds good except this part:

 

Quote

The event would be by-donation ...

 

You can only request donations that cover legitimate costs of hosting the Event (e.g. park fee for picnic shelter rental for instance).  You aren't allowed to post an Event for the purpose of raising money for a non profit. 

 

[+LaserTuna]

17 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

All sounds good except this part:

 

 

You can only request donations that cover legitimate costs of hosting the Event (e.g. park fee for picnic shelter rental for instance).  You aren't allowed to post an Event for the purpose of raising money for a non profit. 

 

 

Thanks!  Good point.  I guess my thought was like "Pay what you want" (even 0$). 

 

On the other hand, the shelter already has fundraising strategies in-shelter so walking them into the shelter (for a game card) where donations can be collected (through their normal means; they don't solicit outright) and keeping the money out of the event cache should be above board right?

 

Don't want to be sketchy about this, but then what about the by-donation BBQ?  Is it like, fundraising isn't allowed full stop unless it is towards a measurable target of event costs?  Can we say, "there will be a BBQ here in the afternoon by donation" in the event cache description?  Is it fine to just leave it out of the description and hold the BBQ anyway?

[+Isonzo Karst]

1 minute ago, LaserTuna said:

Is it like, fundraising isn't allowed full stop unless it is towards a measurable target of event costs?  Can we say, "there will be a BBQ here in the afternoon by donation" in the event cache description?  Is it fine to just leave it out of the description and hold the BBQ anyway?

 

I'm not familiar with the term "by donation".  That said, fundraising isn't allowed. Event hosts can ask for or even require fees to cover event costs. Period.

 

If your event is going to happen with or without the Geocaching.com event listing, then don't list it.  

 

 

[Keystone]

You cannot solicit or collect donations for a cause, no matter how worthy.

 

If animal shelter donations are allowed, that opens the door for political fundraisers, religious organization support, etc.  Let's not go there.

 

If you held the event outside the animal shelter, you would be permitted to mention it once or twice on the cache page as the event location, but that's it.  No "stop inside and check out the amazing work being done by the shelter!"

[+Touchstone]

5 minutes ago, LaserTuna said:

On the other hand, the shelter already has fundraising strategies in-shelter so walking them into the shelter (for a game card) where donations can be collected (through their normal means; they don't solicit outright) and keeping the money out of the event cache should be above board right?

Depends on what expectations you set on the Listing page.  If you state that there will be some activity at the Event, and then people arrive and find out that it's a pay-to-play scheme that wasn't stated clearly on the Event page (because it is not allowed), then I suspect you would get a lot of annoyed guests at your Event.

8 minutes ago, LaserTuna said:

Don't want to be sketchy about this, but then what about the by-donation BBQ?  Is it like, fundraising isn't allowed full stop unless it is towards a measurable target of event costs?  Can we say, "there will be a BBQ here in the afternoon by donation" in the event cache description?  Is it fine to just leave it out of the description and hold the BBQ anyway?

Once again, it's about expectations.  When you say "by-donation" it doesn't sound very optional to me.  You have to ask the question, is there some way to participate in the Event without requiring some sort of fee (regardless of the euphemism of calling it a donation).

[+LaserTuna]

21 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

 

I'm not familiar with the term "by donation".  That said, fundraising isn't allowed. Event hosts can ask for or even require fees to cover event costs. Period.

 

If your event is going to happen with or without the Geocaching.com event listing, then don't list it.  

 

 

 

The object of the event is to attract attention and friendly competition to a circuit of dogwalker-friendly caches that begins and ends at the shelter.  I've seen game card based events in other areas I've lived and thought it would be a cool starting point.  This isn't going to happen with or without the Geocaching.com event listing. 

 

Please remember that this thread is not my event cache page, and I asked for my idea to be challenged in the original post -- it's counterproductive to ask me not to play.

 

20 minutes ago, Keystone said:

You cannot solicit or collect donations for a cause, no matter how worthy.

 

If animal shelter donations are allowed, that opens the door for political fundraisers, religious organization support, etc.  Let's not go there.

 

If you held the event outside the animal shelter, you would be permitted to mention it once or twice on the cache page as the event location, but that's it.  No "stop inside and check out the amazing work being done by the shelter!"

 

I'm right there with you on the donations.  I misinterpreted the rules on donations to recoup event costs, and the reality was immediately clear after reading a previous comment.

 

Do I understand then that the starting point can't be in the shelter, and must be outside the shelter? 

 

It's not the intention of the event to showcase the shelter (we already leverage social media for that; sure, geocaching.com has gotten huge over the years, but it'd be a pretty niche approach), but it is my intention to attract people to this location as the starting point of a series of game-related caches.

 

17 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

Depends on what expectations you set on the Listing page.  If you state that there will be some activity at the Event, and then people arrive and find out that it's a pay-to-play scheme that wasn't stated clearly on the Event page (because it is not allowed), then I suspect you would get a lot of annoyed guests at your Event.

Once again, it's about expectations.  When you say "by-donation" it doesn't sound very optional to me.  You have to ask the question, is there some way to participate in the Event without requiring some sort of fee (regardless of the euphemism of calling it a donation).

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear -- if no donation required for the event, but the starting point would be the shelter, where they collect donations whether or not there is an event.  Is it a problem?

 

To further illustrate, which is the problem we are trying to solve by disallowing fundraising?

- We don't want "commercial caches" with the intent of disrupting our game with advertising, fundraising, etc. for whatever the cause?  or

- We don't want anyone to collect donations, anywhere.

 

Do the girls need to hide the donation jars?  Or is "inside the shelter" as a starting line just out of the question anyway?

 

Thanks,

-lt

Edited August 28, 2018 by LaserTuna
consolidating posts/avoiding a double post

[+Isonzo Karst]

1 minute ago, LaserTuna said:

The object of the event is to attract attention and friendly competition to a circuit of dogwalker-friendly caches that begins and ends at the shelter.  I've seen game card based events in other areas I've lived and thought it would be a cool starting point.  This isn't going to happen with or without the Geocaching.com event listing. 

 

Great, this is fine. Then keep in mind that the event is the gathering of geocachers, it's not the hunt of other caches.  Any event game activity like, "competition... caches,  is optional.  

RE starting point inside shelter for the game activity, hard to say.    This is a detail I think  you  need to work out with the area reviewer.

 

But hosting an event and unveiling or simply having a bunch of caches around is absolutely the normal event done thing. using them in some kind of competitive cache hunt, ditto.

In m y area, they'd need to be published caches, not temps for the event, and generally, Trads. How you get game pieces inside is hugely variable.  I'd not use scrabble tiles, just cause you end up with a scrabble board and missing tiles ;-)  but if those tiles are something you have, sounds like nice way to go.

[+LaserTuna]

1 minute ago, Isonzo Karst said:

How you get game pieces inside is hugely variable.  I'd not use scrabble tiles, just cause you end up with a scrabble board and missing tiles ;-)  but if those tiles are something you have, sounds like nice way to go.

 

I laughed out loud -- good point.  We'd never get to play scrabble again.  I'd probably laminate card stock rather than use cardboard tiles.

 

5 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Great, this is fine. Then keep in mind that the event is the gathering of geocachers, it's not the hunt of other caches.  Any event game activity like, "competition... caches,  is optional.  

 

Good point.  There's not much of a gathering area in this location. 

 

I'm actually not expecting a lot of turnout from existing geocachers who will want to just sign the log book and hang out. This is a fairly isolated small town and while there's a lot of cache coverage in certain areas, I get the impression there are a handful of seasoned cachers who are very passionate about the game maintaining those.  This is also the kind of place where there is rarely anything interesting happening, so my thought process was "let's initiate a bunch of local muggles to the game".  However, what if we accidentally attract a whole bunch of turnout for the event cache?  Then, we have a problem to solve.

 

It might make more sense to invert the course so the starting line is the dog park, but we then gain the problem of operational costs (someone needs to man the starting line.)  It's an easier problem than fitting a crowd of people into a tiny space, though -- volunteer support is huge here.  Parking might also be an issue at the dog park.  It gives me a few things to mull over.

 

18 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

In m y area, they'd need to be published caches, not temps for the event, and generally, Trads.

 

This is my intent.  They're not going to be temporary, but permanently placed in a dogwalking circuit.  Why trads over a multi?

 

Thanks for the constructive feedback.  This is what I was looking for.

 

Cheers,

-lt

[+CAVinoGal]

4 hours ago, LaserTuna said:

Can we say, "there will be a BBQ here in the afternoon by donation" in the event cache description?  Is it fine to just leave it out of the description and hold the BBQ anyway?

 

In my neck of the woods, we do "pot-luck" BBQ - the host MAY provide some part of the meal, and that's specified, but then each attendee is expected to contribute to the meal.  For example, the host may provide a cooler full of sodas and water; bring your own meat to grill and something to share (bag of chips, a salad, fruit, some cookes, etc).  No matter how many show up, there's usually enough food to go around.

[+LaserTuna]

1 minute ago, CAVinoGal said:

 

In my neck of the woods, we do "pot-luck" BBQ - the host MAY provide some part of the meal, and that's specified, but then each attendee is expected to contribute to the meal.  For example, the host may provide a cooler full of sodas and water; bring your own meat to grill and something to share (bag of chips, a salad, fruit, some cookes, etc).  No matter how many show up, there's usually enough food to go around.

 

Oh hey, this is an awesome idea!  I'm not sure it'll fit this exact situation, but I will definitely borrow it for a future event even if it doesn't.  Thanks!

[+cerberus1]

10 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

In my neck of the woods, we do "pot-luck" BBQ - the host MAY provide some part of the meal, and that's specified, but then each attendee is expected to contribute to the meal. 

 

Yep.  Unless it's an outdoors breakfast event (the EO usually provides donuts/bagels and coffee, but we chip in) , most others are pot luck. 

The other 2/3rds now makes sure to bring a few strawberry-rhubarb pies, after one older fellow loudly decided that because of his age, he didn't have to share the last half of one with another  (we know you lurk here...).