Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3
PorridgeOats

Help with puzzle

Recommended Posts

Did you ask the the CO for help yet?    :)

One of the restrictions in the forums Terms of Use  is "Publish on our websites the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the geocache owner".

Share this post


Link to post

ok never mind. I didn't realise you had to ask the geocache owner for permission.

Does anyone know what type of code this is? Does it have a name? 

Thanks

Edited by PorridgeOats

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, PorridgeOats said:

ok never mind. I didn't realise you had to ask the geocache owner for permission.

I will browse online to see if I can find any help. 

Thanks

 

Why not ask the cache owner for a hint on solving the puzzle? For the puzzle cache I own, I prefer when a cacher asks me for a hint, rather than asking another finder (who may just give them the solution)

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

 

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, PorridgeOats said:

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

 

Exactly why it is suggested you ask the cache owner. They are certain to know the code type.

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, PorridgeOats said:

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

 

Unless information about the type of code is provided, it's part of the puzzle, part of what you solve.  Many of these are unique, but straightforward once you figure out, for example, what kind of code it is.  Have you solved a lot of obscure puzzles?

 

There's no urgency.  Find others.  Look at the CO's other caches, too.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, PorridgeOats said:

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

 

If that's true, then be VERY careful about how you ask!

You may only want someone to give you a nudge on a puzzle, but all too frequently people throw the final answer at you.

 

For those people, the puzzle is a distraction to be avoided; only the answer is important.

For me, the puzzle is the journey to travel.

 

It's just so darned unfortunate that I stink at puzzles.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

You may only want someone to give you a nudge on a puzzle, but all too frequently people throw the final answer at you.

 

When someone contacts me for a "nudge", they always want the entire solution.  So I provide the nudge, then the coordinates just in case.

 

… just in case I don't want to be in an email conversation for the entire week of "nudges" until I provide the coordinates. :ph34r:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I love helping people with my puzzles! 

I once had a local geocacher go down the list of everyone who had solved my puzzle, asking for help (AFTER I helped). One friend showed me the message she got:  "I'm really tired of working on this puzzle. Can you give me the final coordinates?" 

 

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

When someone contacts me for a "nudge", they always want the entire solution.  So I provide the nudge, then the coordinates just in case.

 

… just in case I don't want to be in an email conversation for the entire week of "nudges" until I provide the coordinates. :ph34r:

 

Heheh.  I asked a CO for a nudge on a puzzle because I wanted a nudge and no more than a nudge.  He gave me exactly that, a nudge.  Being a puzzle novice, I did not have the knowledge he assumed I had, so I emailed back for a second nudge.  I needed a third nudge, and I sensed the CO was getting tired of nudging.  Fortunately he did *not* give the answer,  so I had the satisfaction of solving the puzzle.  A year or so later I noticed the cache was archived.  Nudging and re-nudging is a lot of work, I'm sure!

;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
57 minutes ago, wmpastor said:

 

Heheh.  I asked a CO for a nudge on a puzzle because I wanted a nudge and no more than a nudge.  He gave me exactly that, a nudge.  Being a puzzle novice, I did not have the knowledge he assumed I had, so I emailed back for a second nudge.  I needed a third nudge, and I sensed the CO was getting tired of nudging.  Fortunately he did *not* give the answer,  so I had the satisfaction of solving the puzzle.  A year or so later I noticed the cache was archived.  Nudging and re-nudging is a lot of work, I'm sure!

;)

 

 

This quote and the OP highlight the main problem with some puzzle caches. They need to be solvable but some are so obtuse or require specialized knowledge that only a small percentage of folks can solve them. Looking at the picture provided nope goes on my ignore list. Don't get me wrong I love a good logic puzzle, brain teaser, cipher code.

 

More support in the cache page needs to be provided to get the first step. Some puzzles do this very well others not so much. We have several in our area unsolved for over 3-4 years, and  21 with no finders at all. Most of the lonely caches are going on 3 years of no finders after the small group of prolific puzzler finds them little to no activity. 

 

My point is better scrutiny is needed and ensure that without being hit over the head by the CO with a 2x4 puzzles should be solvable by a percentage of the folks trying for them. Maybe GS needs to vet puzzles with a world wide team are they solvable without too much help. Have a better mechanism for hints, wait a week for hint #2 that was worked out in the review process. Reviewers obviously not in the same geo areas.

 

My last puzzle I solved I tried the CO, CO has not been active in 5 years. I then asked the previous finder for a hint. From there I solved the puzzle only to find the cache missing after confirming with previous finder, and on private property behind a fallen down fence. Filed a NM that eventually led to it's archival. Honestly, it was a great puzzle and I just did not get the original hint, after the fact it was obvious. 

Share this post


Link to post

I did something bad a couple of weeks ago. Someone messaged me about a puzzle, and I scanned the message too fast and gave them a huge hint.  Then I read the message and it clearly stated he didn't want a hint, just wanted to confirm something. I felt so bad!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, MNTA said:

We have several in our area unsolved for over 3-4 years, and  21 with no finders at all. Most of the lonely caches are going on 3 years of no finders after the small group of prolific puzzler finds them little to no activity. 

I'm not bothered by puzzle caches that aren't found much after the initial rush. Once the local puzzlers find them, you're left with the occasional tourist who likes to solve puzzles before visiting an area, and an occasional newbie who decides to take on the local puzzle caches.

 

But the puzzles that remain unsolved for years are silly. It's trivial to create an unsolvable puzzle. Just lock up the coordinates (with encryption of some sort) and throw away the key. Presto! Instant unsolvable puzzle!

 

Creating a good puzzle that is challenging but solvable in a logical way is harder. But that doesn't mean that everyone will be able to solve them. Some will look at the image(s) on the cache page, put the cache on their ignore list, and move on. And that's okay too. Not all caches are for all people. My own stats show a stark lack of T4 caches, for example.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, MNTA said:

My point is better scrutiny is needed and ensure that without being hit over the head by the CO with a 2x4 puzzles should be solvable by a percentage of the folks trying for them. Maybe GS needs to vet puzzles with a world wide team are they solvable without too much help. Have a better mechanism for hints, wait a week for hint #2 that was worked out in the review process. Reviewers obviously not in the same geo areas.

 

I'd hate to see this level of regulation placed on puzzles. How do you even measure what percentage of cachers can solve a puzzle? Some puzzles do require specialised knowledge, but is that a bad thing? I've learnt lots of new things in trying to solve such puzzles. Some puzzles require lots of time and effort, but is that a bad thing? Finally cracking a tough puzzle after weeks or months of labour can be a much more rewarding experience than something solved in the blink of an eye or by just looking up a table of ciphers. I'd hope that caching can continue to support a broad range of puzzles. Some people like easy ones, while  there are some only interested in the really tough ones, including a small group near here who seem to specialise in such and probably won't even bother with anything less than a D4. Sure, puzzles that are broken or inheritently unsolvable need to be dealt with, but requiring COs to explain in their reviewer note how the puzzle is solved ought to do that. If it's not, perhaps that's what needs to be remedied. The guidelines already say: The cache page must provide information to solve the puzzle. The information to solve the puzzle must be publicly available. That should be enough.

 

I have a D4 puzzle that was published in February but has only had two finders to date, one shortly after publication and the second a few weeks later. The checker logs show a third person has solved it but hasn't visited the cache. The solution involves several steps, including some online research and something from high school maths. The cache description's narrative pretty much walks through the process, with an additional hint in the html source pointing to some EXIF data in an image that might help too, but finding that hint isn't necessary for solving the puzzle. Does the fact that only two people have found it mean that they're the only two in the whole caching community capable of solving it? Or is it just that no-one else has gotten around to doing it? Or is interested in doing it? Or perhaps the T3.5 hike to the phyical cache with the "takes more than an hour" attribute is too much for some. I don't know; no-one has complained about it to me, or, apart from the second finder who needed a slight nudge at the last hurdle, even asked for any hints. The two that have found it said they enjoyed both the puzzle and the hide, with one awarding an FP, so I don't think it's that bad a cache. Just not a popular one.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, MNTA said:

This quote and the OP highlight the main problem with some puzzle caches. They need to be solvable but some are so obtuse or require specialized knowledge that only a small percentage of folks can solve them. Looking at the picture provided nope goes on my ignore list. Don't get me wrong I love a good logic puzzle, brain teaser, cipher code.

 

My point is better scrutiny is needed and ensure that without being hit over the head by the CO with a 2x4 puzzles should be solvable by a percentage of the folks trying for them. Maybe GS needs to vet puzzles with a world wide team are they solvable without too much help.

 

1. Looking at the picture it's obvious which code is used. Shouldn't take long to solve.

 

2. If puzzles would be required to be able to be solved by xx% we would go the way of challenges, only mediocre remains. If I can't solve a puzzle and the cache is interesting enough, I'll ask a hint from the CO, if that doesn't work I'll ignore it. I'm not haunted by icons left on the map.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, PorridgeOats said:

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

 

If someone gives you the cipher you use that information to get the coordinates did you actually solve anything at all?

 

Not really - just deciphered the information.

 

The puzzle here IS working out which cipher is used.

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, wmpastor said:

 

Heheh.  I asked a CO for a nudge on a puzzle because I wanted a nudge and no more than a nudge.  He gave me exactly that, a nudge.  Being a puzzle novice, I did not have the knowledge he assumed I had, so I emailed back for a second nudge.  I needed a third nudge, and I sensed the CO was getting tired of nudging.  Fortunately he did *not* give the answer,  so I had the satisfaction of solving the puzzle.  A year or so later I noticed the cache was archived.  Nudging and re-nudging is a lot of work, I'm sure!

;)

 

 

It's adding insult to injury for the CO.

 

They go to the effort of putting the puzzle together and you'd think that would be enough but no - they're expected to 'solve' it for people as well because it's too much effort to solve it for themselves. Pointless.

Share this post


Link to post

As usual, conflicting advice.

 

• Call prior finder.

• Don't call prior finder.  They'll probably give the answer, and that's cheating.

• Call CO.

• Don't call CO - they're overburdened.

 

So only elite puzzle pros solve the puzzles...and some puzzle caches are not found for two years.

 

Others read up on puzzle techniques and after long study solve puzzles.  And others never look at puzzles again.

 

:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, wmpastor said:

As usual, conflicting advice.

 

• Call prior finder.

• Don't call prior finder.  They'll probably give the answer, and that's cheating.

• Call CO.

• Don't call CO - they're overburdened.

 

So only elite puzzle pros solve the puzzles...and some puzzle caches are not found for two years.

 

Others read up on puzzle techniques and after long study solve puzzles.  And others never look at puzzles again.

 

:rolleyes:

 

The most recent time I asked for hints/clues/answers was when I contacted a cacher who had gotten FTF on a tough puzzle cache. Specifically, he had first asked me if I had an idea how to solve it, and as usual, I have a file on the unsolved cache, with notes I've compiled over time. So I sent my notes, and we had an email conversation about the possibilities. And within a couple of days, he ran out and got FTF. I then asked how he put it all together, but he had forgotten how he solved it.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, kunarion said:

 

The most recent time I asked for hints/clues/answers was when I contacted a cacher who had gotten FTF on a tough puzzle cache. Specifically, he had first asked me if I had an idea how to solve it, and as usual, I have a file on the unsolved cache, with notes I've compiled over time. So I sent my notes, and we had an email conversation about the possibilities. And within a couple of days, he ran out and got FTF. I then asked how he put it all together, but he had forgotten how he solved it.

 

 

Probably didn't solve it at all.

 

Probably hint bumped it all the way to FTF.

 

Gets a hint or an idea from A - shares it with B.

 

B adds more hints or ideas with are passed on to C - and so on - until all the work has been done but not by the person who got the FTF - which is why they can't remember how they solved it.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, niraD said:

Once the local puzzlers find them, you're left with the occasional tourist who likes to solve puzzles before visiting an area, and an occasional newbie who decides to take on the local puzzle caches.

 

This would be me - I'm solving puzzles put out by my son years ago, before I got involved in this hobby.  Some have gone a year or more since the last find, and the containers are still there, awaiting seekers!  I finally solved one just last night that's been bugging me for months.  Last find two logs: 12/26/16, 11/14/17.  I'll probably be the next but it's so close to home that I'll save it for a day when I need a really quick COTD (I've set a goal to find at least one a day in 2018, so far, so good!)

 

1 hour ago, wmpastor said:

Others read up on puzzle techniques and after long study solve puzzles

 

Long study, many attempts using different techniques, coming close, getting further away, finally the AHA! moment - I enjoy the challenges!  Yes, a quick and simple cipher is nice, but so is a challenging one (for me, at least!)  Hubby and I work together - he's good at math and logical stuff, I'm better at word games and puzzles - so we'll each pick our type of puzzle to solve and share solutions, then go find the final together.

 

8 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Some puzzles do require specialised knowledge, but is that a bad thing? I've learnt lots of new things in trying to solve such puzzles. Some puzzles require lots of time and effort, but is that a bad thing? Finally cracking a tough puzzle after weeks or months of labour can be a much more rewarding experience than something solved in the blink of an eye or by just looking up a table of ciphers. I'd hope that caching can continue to support a broad range of puzzles. Some people like easy ones, while  there are some only interested in the really tough ones.

 

I am in total agreement here.  Keep the variety and the range of difficulties, just as in traditional caches - I won't be able to solve or find, them all, and I don't need to.  If I need help, I'll reach out to the CO first, then local cachers who I know have solved it, or just keep working it on my own.  If I have no clue where to start, I'll shelve it till I have more experience!

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, kunarion said:

The most recent time I asked for hints/clues/answers was when I contacted a cacher who had gotten FTF on a tough puzzle cache. Specifically, he had first asked me if I had an idea how to solve it, and as usual, I have a file on the unsolved cache, with notes I've compiled over time. So I sent my notes, and we had an email conversation about the possibilities. And within a couple of days, he ran out and got FTF. I then asked how he put it all together, but he had forgotten how he solved it.

I was recently contacted by someone who was trying to solve a puzzle that I had gotten FTF on years ago. After a little back and forth, I learned that he had already gotten hints from the CO to the point that he knew right where the relevant information was, but just hadn't had the final "Aha!" moment to figure out how to get coordinates from that. The CO was okay with me giving more hints, but I really wasn't sure what hints I could give without spoiling the puzzle (which the CO was okay with, but which I didn't want to do). I ended up giving a little bit of a hint in the form of "Well, it isn't X, so what else could it be?" Hopefully, knowing that he can ignore X will help him explore other options, including the right one.

Edited by niraD
typo

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm not bothered by puzzle caches that aren't found much after the initial rush. Once the local puzzlers find them, you're left with the occasional tourist who likes to solve puzzles before visiting an area, and an occasional newbie who decides to take on the local puzzle caches.

 

But the puzzles that remain unsolved for years are silly. It's trivial to create an unsolvable puzzle. Just lock up the coordinates (with encryption of some sort) and throw away the key. Presto! Instant unsolvable puzzle!

 

 

So how is a cache that sits and occupies space but never is found a good thing?

 

I think better scrutiny by the reviewers is required. Actually solve the puzzle.

Share this post


Link to post
38 minutes ago, MNTA said:

I think better scrutiny by the reviewers is required. Actually solve the puzzle.

How many weeks will you give me to do that prior to publication?  I suck at puzzles and do not enjoy solving most of them.  I can review them just fine, however.  If the type of puzzle isn't obvious, I ask the CO to explain it.  That is different - very different - than solving it myself.  I am able to review and publish nearly all puzzles within the seven day SLA for initial review.  My review is NOT a guarantee that there's no logic errors, typo's, etc. in the puzzle design.  Give me a raise, though, and I'd consider volunteering even harder.

  • Upvote 5
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
41 minutes ago, MNTA said:

So how is a cache that sits and occupies space but never is found a good thing?

So how is a high-terrain cache that sits and occupies space but never is found a good thing?

 

Do we need better scrutiny by the reviewers for high-terrain caches too? 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Keystone said:

Give me a raise, though, and I'd consider volunteering even harder.

How about a 500% raise? Does that sound fair? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, niraD said:

So how is a high-terrain cache that sits and occupies space but never is found a good thing?

 

Do we need better scrutiny by the reviewers for high-terrain caches too? 

Oh, definitely.  Please buy me a boat, a Jeep, climbing and scuba gear.  I will then be happy to scrutinize those caches all weekend long!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, niraD said:

How about a 500% raise? Does that sound fair? ;)

No.  I think human reviewers* deserve a 1,000% raise.

 

*Many reviewers are dogs.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, MNTA said:

 

So how is a cache that sits and occupies space but never is found a good thing?

 

 

Oh, THIS should be over in the "irks" thread.

 

YES, it's a 'good thing'; it represents 'hope', dude!

 

It's on your map as a constant reminder that there's something out there that you haven't bested yet. It's an opportunity to grow and exand your skills and capabilities (two different things!) and stretch your imagination!

 

I, too, suck at puzzle solving, but maybe next spring I'll have nothing to do one day and decide to take another look at the one that's just yards from my house! (Location given for effect only; I totally knocked off everything near my house.)

 

You're worried about a single cache with a clear 1,056 foot diameter circle around it somehow ruining your game?

 

That's just not that big! Wanna plant a cache there? Too bad, I was there first. Sorry.

  • Upvote 3
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

YES, it's a 'good thing'; it represents 'hope', dude!

 

It's on your map as a constant reminder that there's something out there that you haven't bested yet. It's an opportunity to grow and exand your skills and capabilities (two different things!) and stretch your imagination!

 

I, too, suck at puzzle solving, but maybe next spring I'll have nothing to do one day and decide to take another look at the one that's just yards from my house! (Location given for effect only; I totally knocked off everything near my house.)

 

You're worried about a single cache with a clear 1,056 foot diameter circle around it somehow ruining your game?

 

That's just not that big! Wanna plant a cache there? Too bad, I was there first. Sorry.

 

+1

 

Yeah. I like a little mystery. One day I'll look again at some puzzle and have an epiphany. AHA! I enjoy the surprise of finally understanding what the puzzle is, working out a unique and well-made puzzle. Otherwise it's just another code to work on.

 

If the cache's 1,056 foot diameter circle is known, it can be found without solving any puzzle, it's dead center in that circle. I've done a similar thing because of keeping notes on choice caches, and having plotted possible hiding areas. One day I tried to publish two caches, both interfered with an unknown cache, and that reduced one of my on-file caches to a .15 mile line. I simply walked that line.

 

But even an error-filled puzzle is fine with me. I've gotten cache descriptions corrected when I had no idea how to solve the puzzle. But I could see what looks like a mistake. And I've gotten FTF after everyone else tried and failed, by deciding where the mistake is in some new published puzzle. Except for the mistake, it was a pretty easy puzzle.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/22/2018 at 11:06 AM, PorridgeOats said:

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

 

Sometimes knowing what type of code is used in a puzzle is effectively the same as giving away the solution.  For example, if someone has never seen a Pigpen cipher before, telling them that it's a Pigpen cipher pretty much gives it away as a simple search for "Pigpen cipher" will reveal lots of sites which describe exactly how to decode one.  The image shown may contain the code that needs to be deciphered but there may be other clues in the listing (cache title, description, hints) which will help identify what type of code is being used.  

  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/21/2019 at 4:55 AM, NYPaddleCacher said:
On 8/22/2018 at 8:06 AM, PorridgeOats said:

I didn't actually want someone to give me the solution. I only wanted to find out what type of code this is. I would rather solve the puzzle myself

thanks anyway

 

Sometimes knowing what type of code is used in a puzzle is effectively the same as giving away the solution. 

 

And for me, figuring out that type of code is used, or how the coordinates are hidden in the description, is PART of the puzzle.  It is so much more satisfying to work it out on my own!!

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3

×
×
  • Create New...