Country/region souvenirs

[+longwhatton34]

I'm not sure if this is the right place, but if there are 5 'regional' souvenirs for Ireland, 16 for Germany and so on, why are there not individual souvenirs for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

[+Goldenwattle]

9 minutes ago, longwhatton34 said:

I'm not sure if this is the right place, but if there are 5 'regional' souvenirs for Ireland, 16 for Germany and so on, why are there not individual souvenirs for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

Good question.

 

[+redsox_mark]

The short answer is that there are only state/region souvenirs for a few countries.    How they choose which countries to award these state/region ones is Groundspeak's call.   Obviously the USA and Germany, as 2 examples, have very large number of caches/cachers etc.   Ireland it is not so obvious why.

 

Ireland is a special case in other ways.   Groundspeak treats the island of Ireland as a whole, caches in Northern Ireland give you the Ireland (and Ulster) souvenirs, not UK.  There is a history behind that, decisions made between Groundspeak and the UK and Ireland reviewers many years ago.  

 

For the UK, the regions are somewhat arbitrary, Groundspeak defined areas.   I.e. the state of Texas or the "state" (Bundesland) of Bavaria in Germany is well defined and known.   But what is "Southern England" (compared to South West England, for example) is a geocaching specific thing.   There is no regions in the system for England,  Scotland, or Wales as such.  

[+NYPaddleCacher]

4 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

The short answer is that there are only state/region souvenirs for a few countries.    How they choose which countries to award these state/region ones is Groundspeak's call.   Obviously the USA and Germany, as 2 examples, have very large number of caches/cachers etc.   Ireland it is not so obvious why.

 

Ireland is a special case in other ways.   Groundspeak treats the island of Ireland as a whole, caches in Northern Ireland give you the Ireland (and Ulster) souvenirs, not UK.  There is a history behind that, decisions made between Groundspeak and the UK and Ireland reviewers many years ago.  

 

For the UK, the regions are somewhat arbitrary, Groundspeak defined areas.   I.e. the state of Texas or the "state" (Bundesland) of Bavaria in Germany is well defined and known.   But what is "Southern England" (compared to South West England, for example) is a geocaching specific thing.   There is no regions in the system for England,  Scotland, or Wales as such.  

 

That sums it up well.   Furthermore, most countries don't have souvenirs at all.   

 

I haven't looked at the regions within the UK, but not all countries are subdivided into states/provinces or whatever a country calls their second level administrative regions.  Many are divided and have a unique "stateID" for regions within a country.  It does make sense to provide souvenirs for the states/provinces in the U.S., Canada, Germany, and Australia as those countries which have a large number of geocaches (and geocachers), but maybe not for every country which is subdivided into regions.  I thought that rather than have souvenirs for the regions in Ireland that it would have made more sense to have them for the regions in the U.K., considering there aren't any for Scotland, Wales, or England.  

 

Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland are not officially recognized as "countries" in the most common authoritative countries lists (FAO Geopolitical Ontology, ISO-3166 standard) so we only get a souvenir for United Kingdom (my latest souvenir acquired).  

 

Before GS creates any more state/region souvenirs I'd rather see them continue to release souvenirs for the many countries which don't have them.

 

 

[Baker's Achers]

Just curious. I found at least 6 caches in Israel in 2008 and a few in 2017. I found caches in Honduras around 2007. I found caches in St Thomas-Virgin Islands in 2010. I found caches in Gibraltar in 2016. Why don't I have stickers for those countries? I do have stickers from 2016 when I was in Spain and Turkey. Thanks. I plan to travel to Wales in the not too distant future and would love it if there is a sticker for there too. Even just a sticker for Great Britain would be ok. Gibraltar should count.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Baker's Achers

[+colleda]

Not all countries have souvenirs. There's a list here somewhere. You'll get one for UK but not Wales.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

5 hours ago, colleda said:

Not all countries have souvenirs. There's a list here somewhere. You'll get one for UK but not Wales.

In the case of the UK,  Wales, Scotland, England, and North Ireland are not recognized by authoritative sources as distinct "official" countries.   Neither the UN geopolitical ontology nor the ISO 3166 standard recognize Wales, Scotland, England, or North Ireland as distinct countries.  It gets more confusing when GS treats Ireland and North Ireland as one geographic region.

 

As colleda writes, not all countries have souvenirs yet.  The list of countries which do have them is *mostly* (there are exceptions) based upon the number of caches available in each country, so countries like Honduras, St. Thomas, and Gibralter do not yet have souvenirs available.  For the past several years, GS has released a handful of new country/state souvenirs around the end of the year.  We've been told that they eventually want to have country souvenirs for all recognized countries but at the rate that they're releasing them it's going to be a long time before you'll see souvenirs for Honduras, Gibraltar, and smaller Caribbean Islands.  THe good news is that when they do release a country/state souvenir they retroactively award that souvenir to everyone that has previously found a cache in the country.  

[+Vooruit!]

This website provides a nice list of all 'available' souvenirs.

[+Goldenwattle]

I would like the United Arab Emirates to have a souvenir. There are a LOT of travellers who find a cache  there during a stop-over. Many people travel through there and a lot take the advantage to have a few days stopover there too, allowing caching. It's an international hub.

 

Also Hong Kong. If it's not included with China (as it isn't at present) it should have its own souvenir. The place is packed with caches. Singapore has a souvenir.

I see I won't be getting souvenirs for three countries I will visit later this year; New Caledonia, Vanuatu and Fiji. Although very few caches in those countries, many tourists visit them.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Goldenwattle

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 8/20/2018 at 2:13 AM, Goldenwattle said:

I would like the United Arab Emirates to have a souvenir. There are a LOT of travellers who find a cache  there during a stop-over. Many people travel through there and a lot take the advantage to have a few days stopover there too, allowing caching. It's an international hub.

 

Also Hong Kong. If it's not included with China (as it isn't at present) it should have its own souvenir. The place is packed with caches. Singapore has a souvenir.

I see I won't be getting souvenirs for three countries I will visit later this year; New Caledonia, Vanuatu and Fiji. Although very few caches in those countries, many tourists visit them.

 

The UAE would be a good choice for one of the next country souvenirs to be released.  There has been speculation that the countries chosen are mostly based on the number of geocaches in the country, but for a souvenir it would seem to me that the number of *finds*, and specifically by geocachers from other places, would make it a good candidate for a souvenir.   I've done a layover there and it's probably the most international airport I've ever seen.  

 

I'm not sure why Singapore was chosen but Changi is also a major international hub and it has a wide variety of caches.  Asia is still under represented for souvenirs so that may have something to do with it.  From what I've read, Vanuatu is one of the more difficult countries to get to.  It not only has few caches, but few geocachers visiting the country to find them.  To me, that would make it a good candidate for a souvenir as it would be more "collectable" due to it's rarity.  

[+Goldenwattle]

2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Vanuatu

Living in Australia, Vanuatu is not as difficult for us to get to. In fact some cruise ships out of Australia call there, or at least the outer islands. I am about to have my first cruise and we stop at Mystery Island in Vanuatu (all of about 500 metres long), where there are three caches; two traditional and an Earth cache. I am aiming to log all three . Plus several in New Caledonia and the one cache in Suva, Fiji. Fiji is not well endowed with caches.

[+colleda]

On 24/08/2018 at 6:36 PM, Goldenwattle said:

Living in Australia, Vanuatu is not as difficult for us to get to. In fact some cruise ships out of Australia call there, or at least the outer islands. I am about to have my first cruise and we stop at Mystery Island in Vanuatu (all of about 500 metres long), where there are three caches; two traditional and an Earth cache. I am aiming to log all three . Plus several in New Caledonia and the one cache in Suva, Fiji. Fiji is not well endowed with caches.

I have a feeling there could be more than one cache near the windsock now. The original, which was at the base of the windsock,  disappeared before I could FTF it. After contacting the CO I left a replacement Systema nearby and listed new coords in my log. The original windsock has been replaced. Since then there have been throwdowns nearby but the original hint has never been updated, nor the coordinates.

https://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=0f2c5b61-d11f-4713-8ebd-ea01895ecbd1

 

[+Goldenwattle]

29 minutes ago, colleda said:

I have a feeling there could be more than one cache near the windsock now. The original, which was at the base of the windsock,  disappeared before I could FTF it. After contacting the CO I left a replacement Systema nearby and listed new coords in my log. The original windsock has been replaced. Since then there have been throwdowns nearby but the original hint has never been updated, nor the coordinates.

https://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=0f2c5b61-d11f-4713-8ebd-ea01895ecbd1

 

I have taken a note of all the coordinates. There has been a lot of changes.

[+Goldenwattle]

On 8/24/2018 at 4:01 PM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

 

 

On 8/24/2018 at 4:01 PM, NYPaddleCacher said:

From what I've read, Vanuatu is one of the more difficult countries to get to. 

Got there. My cruise boat visited, and now I have 3 finds in Vanuatu. Not that hard for those of us in the south, as Vanuatu is a regular stop for cruise boats out of Australia. I also had finds in New Caledonia (6) and Fiji (1). Fiji was the hardest to get a cache in, as there are so few there; in fact only one in Suva the capital. I logged that one.

[+Goldenwattle]

On 8/30/2018 at 8:59 PM, colleda said:

I have a feeling there could be more than one cache near the windsock now. The original, which was at the base of the windsock,  disappeared before I could FTF it. After contacting the CO I left a replacement Systema nearby and listed new coords in my log. The original windsock has been replaced. Since then there have been throwdowns nearby but the original hint has never been updated, nor the coordinates.

https://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=0f2c5b61-d11f-4713-8ebd-ea01895ecbd1

 

The cache is no longer at the windsock, but under a rock near the nearby path. It took a bit of finding for me, as the co-ods were out. I left better co-ords and an up-to-date hint in my log.

[+longwhatton34]

After searching for something else I came across this. Apparently there are unreleased souvenirs for England, Scotland, Wales and Ethiopia. https://thea-team.net/souvenirs/unreleased

[+NYPaddleCacher]

17 hours ago, longwhatton34 said:

After searching for something else I came across this. Apparently there are unreleased souvenirs for England, Scotland, Wales and Ethiopia. https://thea-team.net/souvenirs/unreleased

 

Yes, I've seen the artwork for those before on a GS Flickr account.   I thought that the one of Ethiopia was particularly nice and would qualify if they ever released a souvenir for Ethiopia.  The ones for England, Scotland, and Wales, however won't get released because although many people thinks of these places as "countries" they're not officially recognized as distinct countries on authoritative lists of countries such as the UN Geopolitical ontology or the ISO 3166 standard.   GS *could* add them to their countries list but it would be a bit of nightmare to update all the caches listings for caches in the UK which fall into these regions.

[+redsox_mark]

19 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Yes, I've seen the artwork for those before on a GS Flickr account.   I thought that the one of Ethiopia was particularly nice and would qualify if they ever released a souvenir for Ethiopia.  The ones for England, Scotland, and Wales, however won't get released because although many people thinks of these places as "countries" they're not officially recognized as distinct countries on authoritative lists of countries such as the UN Geopolitical ontology or the ISO 3166 standard.   GS *could* add them to their countries list but it would be a bit of nightmare to update all the caches listings for caches in the UK which fall into these regions.

 

(This is just me speculating)

 

If GS was ever to issue these England/Scotland/Wales souvenirs,  they could be as an alternative to region "state" souvenirs.      The regions in the UK (e.g. South West England) aren't in any standard, they were created by UK reviewers.    There are 2 regions in Scotland, 2 in Wales, and 10 in England.   So they could code, relatively easily I would think, awarding a Scotland souvenir if you find a cache in either "Northern Scotland" or "Southern Scotland".. and similarly for Wales and England.     And keep the "Country" listed as United Kingdom.  

[+NYPaddleCacher]

7 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

 

(This is just me speculating)

 

If GS was ever to issue these England/Scotland/Wales souvenirs,  they could be as an alternative to region "state" souvenirs.      The regions in the UK (e.g. South West England) aren't in any standard, they were created by UK reviewers.    There are 2 regions in Scotland, 2 in Wales, and 10 in England.   So they could code, relatively easily I would think, awarding a Scotland souvenir if you find a cache in either "Northern Scotland" or "Southern Scotland".. and similarly for Wales and England.     And keep the "Country" listed as United Kingdom.  

 

I've thought that the UK should have been split up into regions rather than Ireland (have just one souvenir for the country of Ireland).  As you said, the regions currently available (they have a unique stateID) in the U.K. may have ben arbitrarily created but there is somewhat of a standard.  Geonames is a frequently use, but not "official" data source for locations within countries.  I created a datasource which uses the U.N. geopolitical ontology for countries, then add the first level administration (from Geonames) for each country.  Here's what it has for regions within the United Kingdom:  https://api.library.cornell.edu/skosmos/geoskos/en/page/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.semanticweb.org%2Fskos%2Fgeoskos.rdf%23United_Kingdom

 

As I said, the regions aren't anymore official than the list that GS uses but geonames is pretty commonly used for this kind of data.