Logs on Montana 680 are shown incorrectly

[+hoges in wa]

Another curiosity has become evident for which I could find no explanation in the Montana pages GPSrChive:   The Logs for all the caches on the unit show as being 12,300 +/-km from where I am.  The co-ords in the description at the top are correct and the distances are correct, navigation to the cache is fine. 

 

HOWEVER, when the log is written, the co-ords show as N 00⁰00.000 E 00⁰00.000 and the distance 12374km in the case of (say)GC5X522.  All logs by other cachers show the same incorrect co-ords and distance as mine.

 

My Home Location is updated, and is about 25km from this particular cache.  It is the logs which are weird.

Does anyone have an explanation?

[+Mineral2]

um... Logs should not have coordinates?

[+Atlas Cached]

9 hours ago, hoges in wa said:

Another curiosity has become evident for which I could find no explanation in the Montana pages GPSrChive:   The Logs for all the caches on the unit show as being 12,300 +/-km from where I am.  The co-ords in the description at the top are correct and the distances are correct, navigation to the cache is fine. 

 

HOWEVER, when the log is written, the co-ords show as N 00⁰00.000 E 00⁰00.000 and the distance 12374km in the case of (say)GC5X522.  All logs by other cachers show the same incorrect co-ords and distance as mine.

 

My Home Location is updated, and is about 25km from this particular cache.  It is the logs which are weird.

Does anyone have an explanation?

 

Where and how are you you reading this information?

 

In BaseCamp?

 

As logs do not contain coordinates, likely what is happening is BaseCamp (or whatever you are using to read the logs) is substituting N 00⁰00.000 E 00⁰00.000 for the null value and I am guessing you are exactly 12374km from those coordinates.

[+hoges in wa]

No, reading them directly from the log shown on the Montana 680T.  Not from Basecamp.  Looking at the Geocache log entry on the GPS.  

 

Now this near-pile-of-junk has thwarted a full caching day by losing ALL caches in its memory after I stopped for lunch at Commodore VQ.

Was going fine up til then.  Turned off for lunch.  Had lunch sitting behind the car.  Turned on when I wanted to go to the next cache in the series and the Montana said No Geocaches Found.

Nil, not a one.  Not even the ones I'd found earlier today.

 

I had Garmin Chartplotter 4210, Garmin Radar and Garmin AIS on my yacht that I lived on for 6 years but I'm seeing a marked difference between stuff that costs 12,000 Euros and consumer items that cost $850. Not impressed with this unit at all.

[+Mineral2]

Can you post a screenshot from your Montana with these log coordinates? Logs do not have coordinates (see image below).

Now, for your geocaches disappearing - this used to be a common occurrence with the older Oregon models (450/550 and earlier) as well as the 62 series and the original Montana line. Garmin never really fixed it, but it hasn't been a problem in the 64 series, the newer eTrex, and the Oregon 600 and 700 series. For some reason when Garmin updated the Montana to the 610 and 680 models, they continued to use the same hardware and mostly the same software from the older 600/650 models. I'm not sure much changed other than the addition of GLONASS and a larger internal memory. Anyway, the point is that for some reason, the internal geocache database would corrupt and fail to show any geocaches on the device. The solution is to delete the geocaches - boot up - reload the geocaches - boot up again. This requires a computer, so to do this in the field, we started loading the geocache files on a SD card instead of the onboard memory. Therefore, when you're out for the day and this happens, you take out the SD card - boot up - put the SD card back in - boot back up and the caches come back. Pain in the butt, but we learned to live with it. 

Like I said, this problem doesn't seem to occur in the Oregon 600/700 lines, but many of us still keep our geocache files on the SD card just in case.

[+hoges in wa]

Photo of log from a cache called McMillan Wander (says it's missing but CO replaced it today)  ALL logs that show on the Montana are like this.

[+hoges in wa]

Quick question - How do I direct the caches to the SD card instead of internal storage?

[+kunarion]

1 hour ago, hoges in wa said:

Quick question - How do I direct the caches to the SD card instead of internal storage?

 

Whether internal or SD Card memory, place GPX files into the "Garmin/GPX" folder.  In the case of an SD card, first create the "Garmin/GPX" folder.

 

I see coordinates in logs on Pocket Queries and Lists sent to my Garmin Oregon.  In some cases, seems like some GPX files do and some don't, there are waypoints on I guess every log, displayed in various ways and not all the same location (yet not zeroed out "000").  I have not tried to figure out what the deal is with that.

 

All logs (as far as I can tell) have a <wpt> tag, but not all include coordinates.  If you tried to display a "blank" wpt tag on a Garmin GPS, I'm guessing you'd see the "000" thing, "empty coordinates".  Which is what you see.

 

You mentioned "Basecamp" in a post above.  If that's how you load GPX files to a GPS, that complicates things.  If instead you are manually saving GPX files to your GPS, you might try the "SQL" trick.

 

A Garmin GPS has a database with fields ("Cache Number", "Cache Name", etc.) filled with info for each cache.  If the database somehow got set up with a "Waypoint" field, it makes sense that you'll see "000" on every log (except maybe on logs that have actual numbers).  It's possible that all you have to do is set up a clean database.

 

Here's a thread with a post that gives a brief summary of how to fix a database issue.  That thread also seems kinda sorta like some of the same issues you have.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by kunarion

[+Mineral2]

 

3 hours ago, hoges in wa said:

Quick question - How do I direct the caches to the SD card instead of internal storage?

When connected to your computer, the SD card will mount as its own drive.

[+Mineral2]

2 hours ago, kunarion said:

I see coordinates in logs on Pocket Queries and Lists sent to my Garmin Oregon.  In some cases, seems like some GPX files do and some don't, there are waypoints on I guess every log, displayed in various ways and not all the same location (yet not zeroed out "000").  I have not tried to figure out what the deal is with that.

 

Huh. I've never seen coordinates with logs with either my Oregon 450 or my Oregon 600,  using individual GPX files, pocket queries, or iCaching exports.

I suspect though that for whatever reason Hoges's Montana is showing that information, it's displaying logs as 0, 0 because there is no coordinate information to display.

[+kunarion]

18 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Huh. I've never seen coordinates with logs with either my Oregon 450 or my Oregon 600,  using individual GPX files, pocket queries, or iCaching exports.

I suspect though that for whatever reason Hoges's Montana is showing that information, it's displaying logs as 0, 0 because there is no coordinate information to display.

 

No, wait.  I meant that the coordinates are in the GPX files (the PQs and Lists).  The coordinates, or even "000" coordinates, don't display in logs on my GPS, but exist in the files (in the case of "Lists", I send the GPX file List to the Garmin, then I can open it with the computer).  I sure wasn't very clear about that when I posted it.

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by kunarion

[+Mineral2]

Ok, so I'm looking at the Groundspeak generated gpx files and I don't see any coordinate tag associated with logs. I don't know where these would be added, but I don't think it's on Groundspeak's end.

Example from a pocket query:

<Groundspeak:logs>
        <Groundspeak:log id="723192057">
          <Groundspeak:date>2017-09-27T17:19:53Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="20079406">jpccc</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">Beautiful fall day for a ride. This cache has been teasing me all summer...close to Moscow, but definitely need some time for the ride to get it. Lid is broken but bag is helping keep it dry. Took nothing and left nothing other than my signature. TFTC! </Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
        <Groundspeak:log id="696883856">
          <Groundspeak:date>2017-06-26T00:24:09Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="310103">zmw</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">We ran from Headwater trailhead.  We ending up taking a couple of wrong turns but made it to the cache in just over 4 miles of running.  Geosence helped make the find easy@GZ.</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
        <Groundspeak:log id="546642468">
          <Groundspeak:date>2015-10-04T19:00:00Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="9656420">Oregonpaul</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">I had a lovely 10 mile Mtn bike loop to Paradise Pt, and I stopped here on the way. The cache is holding up okay with the plastic bag. TFTC</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
        <Groundspeak:log id="477395798">
          <Groundspeak:date>2015-02-15T22:26:35Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Write note</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="11562988">stypaj</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">Cache has a small hole from age. I put a plastic bag around it to protect it from the elements but the next hunter may consider updating the container</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
        <Groundspeak:log id="477391178">
          <Groundspeak:date>2015-02-15T22:08:27Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="11562988">stypaj</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">after a long day and a wrong turn that took me and my son wayyyy off the path we found it.  I am so happy. Great Cache. 
</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
      </Groundspeak:logs>

Example from a single GPX file:

<Groundspeak:logs>
        <Groundspeak:log id="781532530">
          <Groundspeak:date>2018-07-08T00:41:47Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="16627194">Sàmàx</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">Found </Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
        <Groundspeak:log id="781383157">
          <Groundspeak:date>2018-07-07T19:00:00Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="13888509">i_am_wonton</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">Took us a while. Did some bushwhacking and eventually found it though. Great cache!</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
        <Groundspeak:log id="775703165">
          <Groundspeak:date>2018-06-16T04:58:11Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="23321381">GeoDuderMang</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">Excellent cache, tons of fun stuff in there. Left a brass gear,TFTC.</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>

 

[+kunarion]

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Ok, so I'm looking at the Groundspeak generated gpx files and I don't see any coordinate tag associated with logs. I don't know where these would be added, but I don't think it's on Groundspeak's end.

Example from a pocket query

 

 

That's what I was familiar with, nice clean code.  I'm unsure of what's going on with mine.  I haven't changed anything.

 

I download a zipped Pocket Query.  I unzip it using Windows Explorer (file manager).  Open the cache GPX file in Notepad or whatever.  And it's full of <wpt> tags in the cache logs, one for each log, I think all of them.  Really, I don't feel like putting a ton of work into a harmless new line of data that evidently doesn't even bother most people.  And I assume that it's not the coordinates (or the <wpt> tag) being there that's the actual issue.  I'd bet it's a slightly messed up database. 

 

I haven't investigated these "waypoints" (such as what they point to), I just happened to notice they do occur.  Maybe they're used internally for some purpose.  I don't see "000" zeroed-out coordinates in my Garmin Oregon, the waypoints in any case aren't shown with the logs.  I don't know when they developed, nor how they developed.  Especially how it could originate anywhere except on Groundspeak's end.  How else does this occur?  It's a zip file.  In the case of this reply, I'm using a workstation, at work.  This PC likely has never opened a GPX file.  The file arrived like this.  I can't imagine a scenario where a GPX data field could be added to all the logs like this by simply unzipping or viewing the file.

 

In this example, it's a log I submitted five years ago.  I used a GPS (no phone App).  I typed the log on a PC.  It might have been an edited Field Note, I don't remember:

 

<Groundspeak:log id="303801283">
          <Groundspeak:date>2013-04-06T19:00:00Z</Groundspeak:date>
          <Groundspeak:type>Found it</Groundspeak:type>
          <Groundspeak:finder id="2384269">kunarion</Groundspeak:finder>
          <Groundspeak:text encoded="False">Nice warm sunny day to go caching. Once I figured out which side of the building to hunt, it took me a few minutes to find this cleverly hidden micro.  Good coords. Thanks!</Groundspeak:text>
        </Groundspeak:log>
      </Groundspeak:logs>
      <Groundspeak:travelbugs />
    </Groundspeak:cache>
  </wpt>
  <wpt lat="33.44695" lon="-84.454933">

 

And, yeah, I probably clipped that log in the wrong place.  Whatever.  It's just an example to show <wpt> and coordinates are there.

 

Anyway, let's say a <wpt> field gets into a log.  Regardless of how it got there, suppose the GPS now adds that field to its database somehow.  If that happened, it would make sense that all logs with an empty <wpt> tag would display "000" zeroed-out coordinates.  Maybe?  I'm still leaning on resetting the internal SQL for people with that issue, just to see if it fixes that. My Garmin Oregon is evidence that a happy GPS will coexist with the <wpt> tags and not show them.  The wpts are there, but they don't do anything except take up space.

 

After the GPS is back to normal, then how or why there are waypoints in the logs, that's the next mystery to solve.

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by kunarion

[+Mineral2]

Yeah. The <wpt {coords}> are the start of the next geocache. Note that just prior to the <wpt> tag is a waypoint end tag </wpt>

The log tags also appear to get closed prior to the closing of the waypoint.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Mineral2

[+kunarion]

15 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Yeah. The <wpt {coords}> are the start of the next geocache. Note that just prior to the <wpt> tag is a waypoint end tag </wpt>

 

OK, cool.  That's all I'm seeing here.  Just cache coords.  If I find anything else on my GPS, I'll post it.

 

It may be time to find out how the OP loads GPX files.  Some software may be adding "000" coordinates to cache logs before it's sent to the GPS.  Either those logs have something "extra" in their data, or the GPS itself is adding fields to the database.  The latter might explain the device problems.

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by kunarion

[+Mineral2]

It just doesn't make sense that the GPS would be doing it given that it doesn't happen in any other model that Garmin makes, and Garmin is pretty consistent in programming its GPS to handle data in the same way.

Since the OP has mentioned Basecamp, it's possible that Basecamp adds a coordinate field to logs. I've never loaded geocaches through basecamp, so I guess I can try that and see what happens.

[+Mineral2]

Ok. Culprit found. It's Basecamp adding a waypoint and distance field to the logs. Must be a holdover from the Opencaching.com days.

[+kunarion]

1 minute ago, Mineral2 said:

Ok. Culprit found. It's Basecamp adding a waypoint and distance field to the logs. Must be a holdover from the Opencaching.com days.

 

Wow that's a good find!  I already did a search for "Basecamp", trying to find a null coordinates issue.  It somehow seemed familiar, but I didn't immediately find anything.

 

I know that once a Garmin GPS makes its database just so, it never lets it go.  This is why a Basic Member must delete all previously loaded cache GPX files once becoming PM.  The database must be rebuilt for PM, or else you see only the "Basic" data.  Or it once did.  I'm hoping new firmware is fixing that.  But to this day, "delete the files, add new files" is part of a plan to repair many issues.

 

So the OP may have some work ahead.  Purge old files, place clean ones, knock Basecamp upside da head.  Or leave it like that.  It probably doesn't hurt anything.  I have no idea.  But for the vast majority of cache logs, it's useless for Geocaching.

[+Mineral2]

As far as I know, it only affects caches previously on the device. I'll do some more testing, reloading the PQ without a purge, because I only installed a handful of caches from the PQ directly utilizing basecamp. But I'm pretty sure that the GPS looks for changes in the gpx files on boot and updates the information in the database accordingly. The problem with basic members upgrading to a premium membership is that the original file with the basic information might be on the GPS simultaneously with a new GPX from a pocket query, and if those coexist, the GPS will still recognize and read the listing from the old file and ignore the one in the new.

[+Mineral2]

So upon first look at the GPX file created by basecamp, I notice that it lacks all of the Groundspeak/geocaching.com extensions that are added to the gpx file when downloaded from the website. There are still no coordinates associated with the logs. So maybe the Garmin geocache extensions added through basecamp are affecting how the geocache information is being displayed.

 

<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:wptx1="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/WaypointExtension/v1" xmlns:gpxtrx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3" xmlns:gpxtpx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrackPointExtension/v1" xmlns:gpxx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3" xmlns:trp="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TripExtensions/v1" xmlns:adv="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/AdventuresExtensions/v1" xmlns:prs="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/PressureExtension/v1" xmlns:tmd="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TripMetaDataExtensions/v1" xmlns:vptm="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ViaPointTransportationModeExtensions/v1" xmlns:ctx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/CreationTimeExtension/v1" xmlns:gpxacc="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/AccelerationExtension/v1" xmlns:gpxpx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/PowerExtension/v1" xmlns:vidx1="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/VideoExtension/v1" creator="Garmin Desktop App" version="1.1" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/WaypointExtension/v1 http://www8.garmin.com/xmlschemas/WaypointExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrackPointExtension/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrackPointExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3 http://www8.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensionsv3.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ActivityExtension/v1 http://www8.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ActivityExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/AdventuresExtensions/v1 http://www8.garmin.com/xmlschemas/AdventuresExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/PressureExtension/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/PressureExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TripExtensions/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TripExtensionsv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TripMetaDataExtensions/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TripMetaDataExtensionsv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ViaPointTransportationModeExtensions/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ViaPointTransportationModeExtensionsv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/CreationTimeExtension/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/CreationTimeExtensionsv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/AccelerationExtension/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/AccelerationExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/PowerExtension/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/PowerExtensionv1.xsd http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/VideoExtension/v1 http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/VideoExtensionv1.xsd">
  
  <metadata>
    <link href="http://www.garmin.com">
      <text>Garmin International</text>
    </link>
    <time>2018-07-12T21:41:30Z</time>
    <bounds maxlat="47.256966987624764" maxlon="-116.666550021618605" minlat="47.007852969691157" minlon="-117.009933041408658"/>
  </metadata>

  <wpt lat="47.021150020882487" lon="-116.793816983699799">
    <time>2007-05-24T07:00:00Z</time>
    <name>GC134PH</name>
    <cmt>Prospect Arbors by Bridger, Traditional Cache (1/2)</cmt>
    <desc>Prospect Arbors by Bridger, Traditional Cache (1/2)</desc>
    <link href="http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=f76d93ca-2f07-4f03-bda4-c66a988cb6ee"/>
    <sym>Geocache</sym>
    <type>geocache</type>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:WaypointExtension>
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
      <wptx1:WaypointExtension>
        <wptx1:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</wptx1:DisplayMode>
      </wptx1:WaypointExtension>
      <cache xmlns="http://www.Groundspeak.com/cache/1/0" archived="False" available="True" id="606317">
        <name>Prospect Arbors</name>
        <placed_by>Bridger</placed_by>
        <owner id="89395">Bridger</owner>
        <type>Traditional Cache</type>
        <container>Regular</container>
        <difficulty>1</difficulty>
        <terrain>2</terrain>
        <country>United States</country>
        <state>Idaho</state>
        <short_description html="False">Another great view of the Palouse countryside.</short_description>
        <long_description html="False">During the summer you can drive to within 20' of this Tupperware tub.  During the winter the difficulty level might triple, if you could even get to the cache.  Snow level better be above 4000' or you are unlikely to find it.  The view is grand.

Entry to the cache: from Hwy 95, turn E at N46 57.638 W116 55.876.  From Hwy 6, turn W at N46 59142 W116 40.138.  Your target junction, south of the cache is N47 00.679 W116 47.816.  All roads were open the day I placed the cache.

If anyone finds a better route, I'll post the coords.

Additional Waypoints
EE134PH - East entry
N 46° 57.262 W 116° 40.134
Meadow Creek Road
NN134PH - Entry3
N 47° 00.679 W 116° 47.816
Turn north
WW134PH - West entry
N 46° 57.638 W 116° 55.876
Freeze Road turnoff
</long_description>
        <encoded_hints>Underwood.</encoded_hints>
        <logs>
          <log id="485433737">
            <date>2015-03-21T19:00:00Z</date>
            <type>Didn't find it</type>
            <finder id="2967543">CougCatFam</finder>
            <text encoded="False">This cache was our "just one more before we head home" cache. We headed to this on on some bumpy roads that did have gravel.  Apparently we found where the roads had been serviced to. The road narrowed and became more uneven and soggy. We decided that we would give up on this one and turn around as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the conditions worsened and our minivan was no match for the road. We sunk in and couldn't go forward or backward. No problem, I'll push. So my wife jumped in the drivers seat. Nope, sunk in farther. ? Almost 2 hours of digging, moving rocks, jacking up, covered in mud, wet and cold, we decided it was time for help. No cell service there, so hiked to higher ground. Finally got service and called 911. They patched me through to the closest sheriffs office who sent someone out. They wanted us to stay where we had service. It was getting dar and temp was headed into the 30's so part of the fam went back to the van, and 2 of us stayed on the ridge. After 2 hours of standing and discussions with the sherrifs office about their ability to reach us, we retreated to the van to warm. After finally not shivering, and resigned to be spending the night here, we decided let's try driving once more. The ground had solidified enough apparently and we were dislodged in reverse. We backed 2 miles down the road to a wide spot, and were able to drive out of the forest. We called off the sheriff and headed home without the "found it" log, but with a lifelong memory the family will be telling for years! Will we head back for this one? Probably, but will make sure to hike or have a jeep or large truck.</text>
          </log>
          <log id="422683044">
            <date>2014-07-05T19:00:00Z</date>
            <type>Found it</type>
            <finder id="1152978">globaltreckers</finder>
            <text encoded="False">TFTCTNLNsl</text>
          </log>
          <log id="409257364">
            <date>2014-05-17T19:00:00Z</date>
            <type>Found it</type>
            <finder id="1692100">cachingclutes</finder>
            <text encoded="False">4 wheeling weekend with Bikely &amp; Wifely and Quadsinthemudd.
A fantastic weekend navigating the trails for caches. TFT[:)]</text>
          </log>
          <log id="409167980">
            <date>2014-05-17T19:00:00Z</date>
            <type>Found it</type>
            <finder id="255772">Bikely &amp; Wifely</finder>
            <text encoded="False">Found this one with CachingClutes and Quadsinthemud during a great weekend of 4 wheeling.  Thanks for the fun.</text>
          </log>
          <log id="449911707">
            <date>2014-05-04T01:27:51Z</date>
            <type>Found it</type>
            <finder id="9135065">nknockers</finder>
            <text encoded="False">Still hear. Full of water. Drained it. Snow is all gone:)</text>
          </log>
        </logs>
      </cache>
      <ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
        <ctx:CreationTime>2007-05-24T07:00:00Z</ctx:CreationTime>
      </ctx:CreationTimeExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>

 

[+Mineral2]

Results:

Simply deleting the basecamp waypoints file and replacing it with the PQ file does return all logs to normal. This probably constitutes a purge in that the new file wasn't just overwriting the old one with the same file name. That was one of the problems with the "Send to my GPS" feature is that if the geocache was already installed, it didn't necessarily overwrite the file that was already there. Thus if you were a basic member and later upgraded to a premium membership, you certainly had to delete all of the <gccode>.gpx files if you were to continue using the "Send to my GPS" option.

The coordinates/distance in logs also shows up when I add caches to my Oregon 600. Both of these units have an option in the geocaching preferences to display caches in the style of opencaching.com. I'd be curious to see if any units developed after opencaching.com was shut down 1.) still has this option, and 2.) displays logs from basecamp with coordinates. (IE, is this a problem with the Oregon 700?)

For Hoges in wa, here is my recommendation to you:

1. If you need to, open basecamp and back up all of your non-geocaching related data (waypoints, tracks, routes) that you wish to keep to your local basecamp database. This is only necessary if the data isn't already stored locally on your computer.

 

2. Delete all GPX files in the GPX folder. Especially any named "Waypoints," but to be safe, just delete them all. Do the same on your SD card if you have one installed.

 

3.  Using basecamp, you can reload any non-geocaching related waypoints, tracks, and routes that you wish to have on your GPS. They can go either on the SD card or directly on the GPS.
 

4. When downloading geocaches, install them directly to your GPS or SD card without using Basecamp. If you're saving individual GPX files from the cache pages, you can save them directly into the GPX folder. If you're using pocket queries, you can unzip and move the gpx files to the GPX folder on your device or on your SD card (recommended).

4 alt. Alternately, you can use a program such as GSAK (or if you're a mac user, iCaching) to import your pocket queries and other cache searches directly into the program to maintain a database, filter that database, and send the results to your GPS automatically in a single file. You can use the programs to continue importing updated PQ runs as well as update any stray geocache listings via the API. 

Whether you work with pocket queries directly or via a cache manager program is up to you. Both workflows can be efficient and work well. I don't remember if the Montana 610/680 lines support the GGZ file format, but if they do, cache managers are the only option for creating these kinds of files (they get stored in a GGZ folder instead of GPX). The GGZ file format can be useful if you're storing a buttload (ie, 10s to 100's of thousands) of caches on your device.

If you just like to pick and choose caches, bookmark lists are a good way to store specific caches without being all inclusive with a filter. You can make a pocket query with a bookmark list which I think is still easier than dealing with the new "Send to Garmin" feature for lists.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Mineral2

[+hoges in wa]

Thank you Mineral2.  I use Basecamp because some year ago when Communicator refused to work, I was told I should be using Basecamp.  All I do is import PQs into "My Collection", then export "My Collection" to my device.  Or else just the PQ itself.

 

All the caches on Basecamp are new and have nothing to do with Basic Membership vs Premium.  Have been a Premium member since 2009 and didn't live in this place then.  The device and Basecamp only date from about October last year when I returned from my boat and resumed a life on land.  Will take your advice and load directly to my (Garmin-recommended!!) SD card.

 

It would seem from all the above that the distance/co-ords are just a quirk and have no impact.  That being the case, I will ignore them.

 

Thanks for all the input.

[+JohnCNA]

This is definitely caused by Basecamp. I use Basecamp extensively and I have always seen this on my GPSMAP 64st and before that on an Etrex 30 when importing a Basecamp GPX file. My logs do not show this with a GPX file imported from other sources, like GSAK or an unaltered PQ.

 

Funny, I never noticed the difference until reading this discussion. 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by JohnCNA

[robertlipe]

As a developer of GPX and GPX apps that are geocaching-aware, that GPX file is just weird. It's using the GPX 1.1 <extensions> format, but Groundspeak PQs are GPX 1.0. Because they changed the case name of the tags, I think GPSBabel (and thus Google Earth) will let the <cache> extensions be handled by our "I don't know what this is, but I'll try to preserve it" code paths and not our "I know what a pocket query looks like and can actually read the logs and render them specially" path. I would not be at all surprised if other readers of Pocket Queries get similarly befuddled by that file format. I wonder if this is some residue from their failed Opencaching effort. I'd second the advice to just avoid PQ's written by BaseCamp if that's what it does to them. Just copy the PQs over to the device with script/batch file or drag and drop from the file manager or whatever. 

Having seen 0,0 done badly billions (no exaggeration) of times, I'm now of the opinion that no software should ever do anything for coordinates on Null Island. I actually experimented with making GPSBabel drop them on write, but someone fussed that they depended on it.