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What difficulty should QR code based Mystery caches be?


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I wouldn't consider QR codes to be something that requires special equipment. Most people have a phone that can run a QR-decoding app. If not, then they can take a photo (either with their phone or with a digital camera) and decode the QR code later. And if they can't even do that, then they can't do a lot of virtual caches, and those aren't considered "special equipment" caches.

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I have a cell phone, but I don't have a smartphone. Do I need to decode the QR in the field? That's special equipment, so D5. If I can decode the QR code at home before I leave for GZ, it depends on how hard the QR code is to find. If it's just an unhidden picture on the cache page, I'd say D3 just because some people won't recognize what it is and what it means, or they won't know how to decode and need to figure that out.

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Agree with niraD.   

Wasn't true only a few years ago, but every person I've cached with the past couple years uses the app more than a handheld GPSr.

When grocery stores started giving folks coupons with the things, I don't consider it "special equipment" anymore either.   :)

I still use a handheld GPSr, but always have a camera on me.

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I wouldn't consider a QR reader as special equipment in the sense that it automatically becomes a D5 or T5, but I might consider adding either the "special tool required" or the "field puzzle" attribute. So the actual D rating is going to be based on the puzzle element as a whole, if it was just a "go here, scan the QR code and it tells you the final co-ords" then maybe D1.5/2  but if it's a case that the QR code leads you to some other puzzle element, then the D rating could be substantially higher.

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2 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I have a cell phone, but I don't have a smartphone. Do I need to decode the QR in the field? That's special equipment, so D5. If I can decode the QR code at home before I leave for GZ, it depends on how hard the QR code is to find. If it's just an unhidden picture on the cache page, I'd say D3 just because some people won't recognize what it is and what it means, or they won't know how to decode and need to figure that out.

 

And I don't have a cell phone.  Special equipment.

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1 hour ago, unclerojelio said:

I'm thinking about placing a QR code based mystery cache. A search of QR code based caches reveals difficulty levels from 5 to 2.5. Special equipment is required (a cell phone with appropriate app) but who doesn't have a cell phone? What do y'all think?

 

Probably the best people to ask are the Cache Owners of those QR Code caches. Did they make adjustments to the D-rating, and why? And look at the cache logs. Did finders tend to mention that the difficulty was too high or low?

 

Some things to consider:

Is the QR code easy to identify as “a QR Code”? What does the QR Code reveal? Another puzzle or clue, or actual coordinates?

As mentioned before, is it in the field as a stage? If so, how quickly or easily will cachers decode it right there? If there's no cell service there, expect that cachers may have to return to finish it.

 

Here's a chart where you can decide on the difficulty.

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Back when they first appeared I'd have given them a higher D rating than now, as niraD observes, the mobile phone is now ubiquitous and many people cache from their phones.  There's probably half a dozen apps (all which spy on you) which are free from Google Play or Apple which should decode on the spot.  I'm still a cheapskate in that I have a smart phone on pre-paid, so no data - anything which requires checking in or launching a web page to complete the cache will be beyond people like me, but we shouldn't be counted in the majority, or even a significant minority, come to it.  I'd recommend no more than a 0.5 increase in D for a QR or similarly coded cache.

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26 minutes ago, DragonsWest said:

Back when they first appeared I'd have given them a higher D rating than now, as niraD observes, the mobile phone is now ubiquitous and many people cache from their phones.  There's probably half a dozen apps (all which spy on you) which are free from Google Play or Apple which should decode on the spot.  I'm still a cheapskate in that I have a smart phone on pre-paid, so no data - anything which requires checking in or launching a web page to complete the cache will be beyond people like me, but we shouldn't be counted in the majority, or even a significant minority, come to it.  I'd recommend no more than a 0.5 increase in D for a QR or similarly coded cache.

 

If I know in advance that there is a "QR Code" stage, I'd arrive with my game face on.  I'd expect to at least take a picture of the thing, go to a Hotspot (or go home), decode it, find it another day.  If every stage is yet another QR Code, I may wait til a friend solves it B).  Half of the Puzzle/Multis I've found were done when a friend asked if I wanted to tag along.  He's solved it or now has the info to do so, or he's already found it and the Final is along the way to other caches.  And so it may be with the CO's "QR Code Cache".  For a number of cachers.

 

Edited by kunarion
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QR recognition difficulty has gone down recent year as they're fairly common. But you still require a device to 'solve' it (unless you can read 2d barcode).  So I agree with the above that the difficulty should be low initially, with the special tool required attribute (even if you can photo it and decode it at home).

After that aspect, the difficulty could be bumped if you have to do something to produce a readable QR code. If there's a puzzle on top of the basic QR code, then the difficulty would be affected by that puzzles... field puzzle, pencil puzzle (it's a grid after all, fill in squares to make a valid QR?), physical stages in a multi, etc.

 

But the QR itself? Likely doesn't garner more than 2 maybe 3 Dif - plus the attribute - before adjusting for other aspects of the listing difficulty.

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Definition of Difficulty 5 is

 

The most extreme mental challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, tools, or significant effort to find, solve, or open.

 

Lots of caches require equipment which not everyone has.   Chirp caches, NFC caches, Intercaches, and now AR caches.   Some will define "specialist tool" as anything which not everyone has.   So you will see some D5s.  Around my way, most cachers don't consider a smart phone "specialized equipment".   They realise that not everyone will have that equipment, so they use the special tool attribute, and make it clear on the cache page.   

 

I've had a smartphone for years.   But it doesn't read NFC tags.   The NFC caches I've seen aren't D5.    (I found them by teaming with a friend who had a NFC capable phone).  

 

With a QR, even if it is in the field, it can be done without any phone at all, as NiraD pointed out.   Requires an extra trip but can be done.    Unless you want to call a camera special equipment, which I don't think makes sense (again as NiraD explained).

 

AR caches require more "specialized equipment" than QR.   You need a fairly modern smart phone and a specific app.   Of the 265 AR caches worldwide so far, only 2 are Difficulty 5.  So clearly most cache owners aren't automatically assigning D=5 to anything requiring a smart phone and app.   

 

If the only thing you are doing is reading a QR which gives the coordinates, and otherwise the cache would be D 1.5, I would make it a 2.  

 

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Personally, I consider the D the brain power and the T the braun, in so many words. I don't generally consider simply requiring a tool sufficient to warrant a D5. Maybe if it requires strategizing to get the special tool, or complexity in using the special tool, but not for the mere requirement of needing a tool.

 

I also like how "specialized" sounds over "special".  A D5 requiring specialized knowledge sounds much more limited and high-skill. Lots of people have 'special skills', but one might say only professionals have 'specialized' skills =P  A D5 to a person with the specialized skill may actually seem to them like a D2, where to everyone else more like a 5. For them that may mean at the very least some dedicated research and learning before being to complete it.

 

A QR code is simply a method of encoding information that pretty much can't be solved by hand, but requires a smartphone to scan, or techie steps to send the image to a decoder.  That latter one may perhaps be a 'special skill', but certainly not 'specialized'.

 

To compare - an electronics board puzzle or electrical diagram using industry standard terminology, symbols, units, etc, which requires professional electrician knowledge - that I'd qualify as a D5. Or needing to write a program to algorithmically solve a complex puzzle.  Or, say a field puzzle that requires a professional tool (using specialized skills) not easily accessible to a layperson - D5 and special tool required.

 

QR code? Low D and special tool.

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You do not need special tool to decode QR-code. You can copy the code manually to a squared paper pixel by pixel on field and reconstruct the image pixel by pixel at home with your computer before you send it to website which decodes the image. Only "non special" tools you need are paper, pencil and the computer which you are also using to browse the cache description.

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2 hours ago, arisoft said:

You do not need special tool to decode QR-code. You can copy the code manually to a squared paper pixel by pixel on field and reconstruct the image pixel by pixel at home with your computer before you send it to website which decodes the image. Only "non special" tools you need are paper, pencil and the computer which you are also using to browse the cache description.

If I had to do that, I'd definitely consider it D5 even though there was no special equipment involved. Although "decodes the image" doesn't sound like something I carry around in my back pocket, so I'm not sure copying the pixels by hand actually changed anything.

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8 hours ago, dprovan said:

If I had to do that, I'd definitely consider it D5 even though there was no special equipment involved. Although "decodes the image" doesn't sound like something I carry around in my back pocket, so I'm not sure copying the pixels by hand actually changed anything.

 

You are allowed to do many errors while copying the code tag. It is not a hard task. If the QR-code is not extremely large, it just takes few minutes to complete - not days needed for D5 level. Decoding happes with the same device you are using for reading the cache description. Maybe not a field puzzle this way but manageable without a special tool.

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I'm in the camp that any tool that most people have, or could readily get (screwdriver comes to mind, ladder is another) is NOT " specialized knowledge, skills, tools". 

 

There were QR codes caches around back when very few cachers had smartphones. You either took a picture, went home, used an online decoder, or traced (see arisoft's post above mine) went  home, used an online decoder.   Tracing a QR code is not as onerous as it may sound. Not that I'll ever do it again ;-) 

 

I'd nothing to the D rating for the use of a QR code on a cache page, and maybe a half point in the field.   

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54 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

I'm in the camp that any tool that most people have, or could readily get (screwdriver comes to mind, ladder is another) is NOT " specialized knowledge, skills, tools". 

I would agree with that in respect of how the D rating is calculated.

I would  use the "Special Tool" attribute for anything that most people would not normally carry around, so I would use that attribute if a ladder  or screwdriver was required.

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1 hour ago, MartyBartfast said:

I would agree with that in respect of how the D rating is calculated.

I would  use the "Special Tool" attribute for anything that most people would not normally carry around, so I would use that attribute if a ladder  or screwdriver was required.

 

I am not so sure I'd put screwdriver in the special tool category. A well equipped geocaching would likely have a leatherman or swiss army knife (for the tveezers).

 

Although there may be *some* people that still don't recognize a QR code or know how to decode them they've become almost as ubiquitous as traditional bar codes.  Pick up almost any magazine and many of the ads include QR codes.   Many newbie geocachers don't recognize that a lamp post has a skirt that can be lifted which can be used to hide a container but that doesn't make a LPC cache a D3.  

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I'd say a "simple QR" would just be D1.5 but always with tool required attribute. If the QR code does not just give the cacher a coordinate but something extra to decode (i.e. ROTxx, website), just increase D as needed.

If omitting the tools attribute  make it VERY clear a QR decoding method is needed in the field. I carry most tools all of the time (I don't carry 2L of water by default but have all kinds of screwdrivers, wrench, magnets... with me)  but many don't, especially when "casual" caching.

 

 

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It's 2018. Children have smartphones. People with simple cell phones are the exception here and every smartphone can have a QR app installed so I wouldn't consider it a special tool.

 

As for diffuculty I'd add 0,5 star as I've meet cachers who had to have the QR "magic" explained. But still, it's not something difficult to understand.

 

NFC is a different story but I usually see the wireless communication attribute used in such caches.

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5 minutes ago, TheVoytekBear said:

It's 2018. Children have smartphones. People with simple cell phones are the exception here and every smartphone can have a QR app installed so I wouldn't consider it a special tool.

 

I don't have one, don't need one. I do have a tablet though with GCC and QR/barcode scanner app. I have no idea where you are but saying "everyone" has a smartphone is over the top. Just read any thread about "premium membership" and you"ll come across people who can't afford the membership amount. Point is to make it clear in advance what is needed so people are not disappointed should they not have the right tool (smartphone or other).

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I didn't write that people without a smartphone don't exist. This is why I used the word "exception". I didn't mean to disregard cachers without one, I just consider calling it Today a special tool an overstatement.

 

As for my location I'm from Poland (by no means a rich country) and maybe happen to notice a person with a simple cell phone once a month (in general, not only during caching).

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2 hours ago, on4bam said:

I'd say a "simple QR" would just be D1.5 but always with tool required attribute. If the QR code does not just give the cacher a coordinate but something extra to decode (i.e. ROTxx, website), just increase D as needed.

 

 

To me all QR codes are simple and have no effect, or minimal at worst, on the D rating.  The QR is only a data source and it is that output that impacst the difficulty.  If the coordinates are provided the difficulty low, if the data presents another puzzle, the difficulty is higher.  In either case, the variable is the information revealed by the QR code not the presence of the QR.  Think of the QR as a replacement for a piece of paper.

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8 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I am not so sure I'd put screwdriver in the special tool category. A well equipped geocaching would likely have a leatherman or swiss army knife (for the tveezers).

 

Although there may be *some* people that still don't recognize a QR code or know how to decode them they've become almost as ubiquitous as traditional bar codes.  Pick up almost any magazine and many of the ads include QR codes.   Many newbie geocachers don't recognize that a lamp post has a skirt that can be lifted which can be used to hide a container but that doesn't make a LPC cache a D3.  

 

I think "well-equipped" is pretty subjective. Especially in today's growing younger geocaching community. It's more likely that someone will have a smartphone than a screwdriver when they're out for a few hours of geocaching.  Heck I'm seeing so many micro caches with the special tool attribute, discovering that it's referring to tweezers because it's a nano!

 

I err on the side of "if you need anything other than what's provided plus straightforward braun to get at the logsheet" then Special Tool is added (tweezers for a nano? ymmv =P).  It's easier to ignore the attribute if you've got all the tools than to get there and realize you need something you don't have.  And I think that's the benefit of attributes, as more of a guide than "this applies to everyone".  (though yes I know things like D and T are pretty subjective too; but that's more of a scale than a binary applicable/not-applicable stat)

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5 hours ago, TheVoytekBear said:

As for my location I'm from Poland (by no means a rich country) and maybe happen to notice a person with a simple cell phone once a month (in general, not only during caching).

 

Per my comment above, I'd still err on adding the attribute. But maybe that's a regional thing - maybe in Poland there wouldn't be much pushback for not having the attribute; myabe QR code caches are much more common...  Still, I'd say it's less risky to add the attribute and ensure people are prepared.

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It would be interesting to look at the publication date relative to the difficulty. My observation is that back in the day, when QR codes were new, they were higher difficulty; now, they are not. In a similar vein, I just solved an old D5 puzzle cache in which the coordinates were hidden as a comment in the HTML. In 2004 that was pretty hot stuff...

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1 hour ago, The Snowdog said:

I just solved an old D5 puzzle cache in which the coordinates were hidden as a comment in the HTML. In 2004 that was pretty hot stuff...

haha yes, and even then for some of us that was still a D2 maybe :) But yeah the more common a puzzle type gets the lower a D, generally, it'll garner. But it really does have to do with a much wider view of the general population... as average/layperson knowledge increases, puzzling methods become more well known.  ROT-13 used to be huge too. Now in many areas that's really just, well, lazy ;)

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Given that you are free to interpret "specialized equipment" as you see fit, you can rate the D as high as 5 if you want.   I would suggest that if you do rate it that way,  it would be good to explain that in the cache description.    Something like "The D rating reflects the need of a smart phone and app; otherwise the D rating is 1.5" (or whatever). 

 

Otherwise:

 

1.  The D rating of 5 might put some cachers off, thinking it is really difficult.    They might do it if you explain.

2.  Some cachers who like a challenge might seek it out and be disappointed that the only challenge is scanning a QR code.  You may get complaints that the D is over-rated.

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1 hour ago, redsox_mark said:

1.  The D rating of 5 might put some cachers off, thinking it is really difficult.    They might do it if you explain.

2.  Some cachers who like a challenge might seek it out and be disappointed that the only challenge is scanning a QR code.  You may get complaints that the D is over-rated.

 

Both of these options will happen if cache is overrated to D5. Some will skip the cache without reading the description and some others will disappoint when they realize that there is no D5 challenge at all. I would add special tool attribute and depending on the desired difficulty, I would tell in the description what tool is needed or not.

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 7:24 AM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

I am not so sure I'd put screwdriver in the special tool category. A well equipped geocaching would likely have a leatherman or swiss army knife (for the tveezers).

 

Although there may be *some* people that still don't recognize a QR code or know how to decode them they've become almost as ubiquitous as traditional bar codes.  Pick up almost any magazine and many of the ads include QR codes.   Many newbie geocachers don't recognize that a lamp post has a skirt that can be lifted which can be used to hide a container but that doesn't make a LPC cache a D3.  

Say what about lamp posts? They have a what?

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On 7/11/2018 at 10:28 AM, on4bam said:

 

I don't have one, don't need one. I do have a tablet though with GCC and QR/barcode scanner app. I have no idea where you are but saying "everyone" has a smartphone is over the top. Just read any thread about "premium membership" and you"ll come across people who can't afford the membership amount. Point is to make it clear in advance what is needed so people are not disappointed should they not have the right tool (smartphone or other).

 

95% of Americans own a mobile phone.

77% of Americans own a smartphone.

 

It is not a "special tool" and I would argue that is has not been a "special tool" since it broke the 35% threshold back in 2011.

 

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/

 

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5 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:

95% of Americans own a mobile phone.

77% of Americans own a smartphone.

 

Geocaching is a global activity, any statistics WORLDWIDE? ;)

Then again, any GLOBAL stats on percentage of geocachers that use (not only have) a smartphone for geocaching?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, on4bam said:

 

Geocaching is a global activity, any statistics WORLDWIDE? ;)

Then again, any GLOBAL stats on percentage of geocachers that use (not only have) a smartphone for geocaching?

 

 

Last years data, and it's from wikipedia, but....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_smartphone_penetration

 

It also doesn't list *all* countries or provide a summary but the amount of smartphone use drops considerably as one goes down the list.  

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7 minutes ago, on4bam said:

 

Geocaching is a global activity, any statistics WORLDWIDE? ;)

Then again, any GLOBAL stats on percentage of geocachers that use (not only have) a smartphone for geocaching?

 

 

 

I'd guess that nobody has done the first survey and the second one never will be done.

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12 minutes ago, on4bam said:

 

Geocaching is a global activity, any statistics WORLDWIDE? ;)

Then again, any GLOBAL stats on percentage of geocachers that use (not only have) a smartphone for geocaching?

 

 

Another site with projections of smart phone users into 2021.  According to this site, in 2018, 34.7% of the global population use a smart phone.  

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203734/global-smartphone-penetration-per-capita-since-2005/

 

And then there is this site, which claims that by 2018 2/3rds of adults worldwide will own smartphones.  If you read down to the bottom you'll see: "Zenith’s measurements cover 52 countries and 65 percent of the world’s population."  I wonder what the numbers looked like for the remaining 35% of the population.  

 

 

https://www.recode.net/2017/10/16/16482168/two-thirds-of-adults-worldwide-will-own-smartphones-next-year

 

 

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36 minutes ago, on4bam said:
45 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:

95% of Americans own a mobile phone.

77% of Americans own a smartphone.

 

Geocaching is a global activity, any statistics WORLDWIDE? ;)

Then again, any GLOBAL stats on percentage of geocachers that use (not only have) a smartphone for geocaching?

 

Right, this would be an argument for regional variance, which of course, is how it currently works :)

And even in North America some regions may differ greatly by possessions like smartphones. So COs, apply it as you see fit!

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Dear god...some people have to argue every little thing.  

 

The simple fact is that QR codes are common.  They are used in marketing, on packaging, social apps and countless websites. 

Smartphones are common. When at least a quarter of a population owns and regularly uses a smartphone, it ceases to be a "special tool".  Even if one doesn't geocache with a smartphone, those folks more than likely have a device ON THEM that can scan the code.  

 

But I'm sure you will continue to debate the point because it's second nature to do so.

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I recently discovered (by accident) that my iPhone's camera works as a QR code reader without any special application.  I thought that was a really great feature!  It wasn't that long ago that the iPhone's camera didn't have a countdown timer let alone a built-in QR code reader, so hooray for those upgrades. 

 

Not that long ago there was a D5 QR code puzzle cache that took two seconds to solve.  I don't think QR codes should be D5 even if you don't have a smartphone, as they can be read online through a web browser as well as with a smartphone.  Either a smartphone OR an internet connection/web browser are required for geocaching, so a QR code reader shouldn't be considered special equipment.

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37 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:

Dear god...some people have to argue every little thing.

(And proceeds to argue an opinion...)

;) It's ok, it's expected, it's a discussion forum.

 

 

3 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I recently discovered (by accident) that my iPhone's camera works as a QR code reader without any special application.  I thought that was a really great feature!  It wasn't that long ago that the iPhone's camera didn't have a countdown timer let alone a built-in QR code reader, so hooray for those upgrades.

Yeah I think that was an iOS10 new feature? I think... it was highly sought, and it's pretty useful

 

 

4 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

Either a smartphone OR an internet connection/web browser are required for geocaching

Not required once in the field... only a GPS device is required for geocaching unless otherwise disclaimed. The problem is twofold here - what's a good Difficulty for a cache requiring decoding of a QR code; and would it garner the Special Tool Required attribute so people know that in the field, more than the minimum GPS device is required to complete it (without coming home and returning again).

 

But again, it's really up to the CO to decide what to rate their cache and whether to add attributes. (otherwise there'd be another rule like beacons - Cache includes a QR code to decode? Cache requires the attribute ~Reviewer - and this isn't the case)

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21 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Not required once in the field

 

That's true.  The one I saw was a cache listing with a QR code.  I didn't think about a QR code in the field.  But either way, it's still easy to capture the data and translate it, though perhaps not in the field.  May I assume a digital camera is not special equipment?  :)

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On 7/13/2018 at 3:11 AM, hzoi said:

I did a QR hide when we moved to Virginia, inspired by all the boxes in our garage.  I gave it 2.5 stars, but the difficulty was in realizing that there was a QR code to decode, not ion decoding the QR code.

I read your comment before looking at the puzzle and was envisioning your PCS boxes arranged in your garage like pixels in a QR code and was about to be very impressed. 

This is still good, but not what I was expecting.

Actually now that I think of it... I still have some boxes from my PCS...

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1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

May I assume a digital camera is not special equipment?  :)

Hm. Personally, I'd still say if a digital camera is required to get my signature on the logsheet, then I'd add the attribute. If I was one who didn't have a smartphone and cached only with a GPS, I might not have a digital camera with me. Heck there are times I may hop out of my car to grab a cache and leave everything in the car because I know where the cache was - then realize I want to take a picture and have to run back to get the phone.  If a cache required the use of something other than a pen to sign the logsheet, I'd add the tool attribute.

 

Yeeshk some people even add it just for using tweezers to get a log from a nano.  I wouldn't add it for that because it's actually quite easy (once you know how) to get the log without tweezers; yes, even without nails or a pointy object. For the nano, the tool can help, but I wouldn't say it's required.

 

Requirement is the key term, I'd say. But even that's somewhat up for interpretation depending on the task. Is a ladder required? Some people can climb trees like mad. This all comes back down to knowing the cache owner, reading the cache properties from their perspective for a better idea of what you might be in for... because man this is all so subjective :)

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As someone who got his first smart phone only three months ago and who still doesn't know how to read a QR code with it, I definitely feel it is special equipment. I bring my phone with me when geocaching, and the caches are loaded in to my app, but I used my Garmin almost exclusively unless I need to read the logs or cache description.

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