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RedPiggy

Girl from Czech Republic died today while geocaching...

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52 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

The example you linked to involved people going off trail. The property owner should be off the hook.

 

But what is sufficient? Do they need to say off-trail access is prohibited? Or is "please stay on the marked trails" sufficient? If there's no fence line, most people consider that publicly accessible land, even if sensitive nature. You see it's pretty vague, they could argue there wasn't sufficient warning that off trail is life-threateningly dangerous. So at what point does that line come into play? That was the point of the initial comment. What is considered a "stupid idea" (fault the victim) vs insufficient warning (faulting the property owner)?

 

(not that I don't agree - they went off trail and the land owner should not incur any fault; that's my opinion and afaik that's the direction the law ruled)

(and in this case I like the rock climbing bolt analogy - I don't believe the cache owner should be at fault either)

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3 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Europeans are notorious for their exploration of abandoned places and areas that, in the US, would be strictly off limits.

 

Yup.  Poking around abandoned castles and bunkers was one of the things I most enjoyed about living in Germany, whether a geocache was there or not.  I'm looking forward to going back to Germany this summer, and that's just one reason why.

 

Europeans have a very different approach to property ownership and personal responsibility.  Might be one reason why there are literally almost ten times as many geocaches hidden around the capital of Hessen, Germany (~ 114,000), than there are hidden around the capital of Virginia, USA (~ 12,000).

 

I find it pretty ridiculous that American society has abdicated personal responsibility and handed things over to insurance companies and personal injury attorneys to battle over.  As a consenting adult, and an attorney, I know my limits, and if I exceed them, I am fully prepared to face the consequences.

Edited by hzoi
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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

Might be one reason why there are literally almost ten times as many geocaches hidden around the capital of Hessen, Germany (~ 112,000), than there are hidden around Virginia, USA (~ 12,000)

Holy smokes! Looks more like a Munzee map than a geocaching map to me. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 2:42 PM, hzoi said:

Yup.  Poking around abandoned castles and bunkers was one of the things I most enjoyed about living in Germany, whether a geocache was there or not.  I'm looking forward to going back to Germany this summer, and that's just one reason why.

 

Europeans have a very different approach to property ownership and personal responsibility.  Might be one reason why there are literally almost ten times as many geocaches hidden around the capital of Hessen, Germany (~ 114,000), than there are hidden around the capital of Virginia, USA (~ 12,000).

 

I find it pretty ridiculous that American society has abdicated personal responsibility and handed things over to insurance companies and personal injury attorneys to battle over.  As a consenting adult, and an attorney, I know my limits, and if I exceed them, I am fully prepared to face the consequences.

 

Just because 100,000 caches might fit in Richmond, VA doesn't mean they should be there. I doubt there are 100,000 places in Richmond worth visiting. There probably aren't even 12,000.

 

As for abandoned buildings: there are a number of issues unrelated to whether or not someone could get sued, in particular trespassing (Europe apparently has very loose laws on the subject of what constitutes private property) and that most people who explore abandoned buildings lack the qualifications to make a reasonably accurate assessment about the safety of the building. Just because you're legally entitled to decide to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

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I would extend a bit the translation of the spokesman of Czech Police -

"There is a certain legend and rules mentioned for each geocache. People has to read them and decide if they have enough skills to made it or not."

"Entry to this place is not forbidden, but it is not easy to access thus people entering has to understand where they go."

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