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Phone or gps


CraftKlan

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This is Craft Klan.  We're new to the game and began in March.  I've very much enjoyed just using my phone for geocaching.  It's free and gets me in the ball park for caches.  However, there are times when the gps tends to bounce around when I get close to a cache (especially under tree cover). Then it becomes difficult to find a small cache in a heavily wooded area.  Staying still for a few minutes sometimes helps.  

Anyway my question is, would investing in a $100-150 gps worth it?  Would this price range gps be much better than my phone?

Any tips or ideas would be great thanks!

Thanks for the help!

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1 hour ago, CraftKlan said:

... there are times when the gps tends to bounce around when I get close to a cache (especially under tree cover). Then it becomes difficult to find a small cache in a heavily wooded area.  Staying still for a few minutes sometimes helps.  

Anyway my question is, would investing in a $100-150 gps worth it?  Would this price range gps be much better than my phone?

 

I don't think so.   Even handheld GPSrs get bounce at times.  There's little difference these days between a phone and a handheld GPSr.

I only use a handheld GPSr, and IMO what you're looking to spend, maybe it'd work if you were to buy a better model used.   

 - A simple search will show long-discontinued models in your price range.  If you're looking for a new start,  save and get a newer model.    :)

I'd stick with Garmin.

 

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5 minutes ago, Elektrazz said:

This one looks good nüvi® 500...

 

I've only ever heard about those, never seen one in person.  Looked it up just now, it originally sold for $700!  They can be found on ebay, but you'd have to be very careful.  The maps and firmware, and the built-in battery, are all about 10 years old.

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We used a Nuvi 2360 for a few months 6 years ago to see if we would like caching. It can be used successfully but has limitations. Battery life would be the biggest problem. Caches can be easily downloaded into most Nuvis. We know of a couple who found their first 2000 caches using a Garmin Nuvi. They now use an Etrex 20 as we do. The Nuvi is now used solely in the car to get us close to caches by road as possible except for one time when the Etrex battery was dead as someone forgot to change out the batteries:rolleyes:.

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20 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Has anyone really successfully used a car GPS as a handheld? 

We never had luck with them for heading into the woods to find caches, tom toms, quests, or  nuvis .   :)

 

There are a few issues with using a vehicle GPS for geocaching.  Although there are some exceptions:

 

They're set  by default to use "navigation by following a route".   Many will have a "driving mode" and a "walking mode" (navigation as the crow flies).  If left in "driving mode", any cache not actually on a route (aka a road one may drive on)  will be difficult to find.  

 

They're intended and designed to be used in a vehicle which has a persistent power source.  When removed from the vehicle it will rely on a battery, which may not last very long.  They're also designed to be mounted in some way in a vehicle.  They're not designed to be carried by hand or resistant to water or shock.  A handheld GPS, on the other hand, is designed to be carried by hand and used outdoors.   They're also designed to run off a battery so will likely last much longer while out in the field.  

 

I don't know about the 500 but I'd be surprised if the maps can't be updated.  Pretty much all of the modern Garmin handheld GPRs  are easily updated with new wayponts (geocaches) and a  updated maps, either from Garmin, or a few sources that have free maps for just about every place in the world.  

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My vote would just be to use your phone.  That is all I have ever used.  There is a 50% (I didn't do the math)  Chance that whoever hid the cache used there phone so no way to be sure it is more accurate.  If you have a older phone maybe save up the money to buy a GPS to upgrade your phone at sometime.

  Oh and I did go buy a GPS but never use it.

Edited by WarNinjas
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13 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

  Oh and I did go buy a GPS but never use it.

 

We've used our phones since we started, and the GPS seems to be pretty accurate.  We've found a lot of caches in just over a year!  We've placed a few as well, and used nothing but the phone GPS to take readings and average them; the system seems to work.

 

We've considered buying a GPS unit; interesting to hear you say you did but don't use it.  Can I ask which one you bought?  We waver between learning to use a "real" GPS unit, and simply using our phones as they seem to work just fine.

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Be patient and look on sites like craigslist or letgo.  I found an Oregon 550 for under $100.  I have, and use both phone and GPS.  The nice thing to me is that the GPS is a little more durable and I do not mind handing it to my kids to follow, rather than the $800 cell phone option.  

 

I have been thinking about getting myself one, but have not pulled the trigger yet.  I am on the fence because it looks like the newer ones can connect to your phone so they have the same functionality as the app, and the need to download is gone.  I have to plan a head when we use our current GPS

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On 5/29/2018 at 11:45 AM, CAVinoGal said:

 

We've used our phones since we started, and the GPS seems to be pretty accurate.  We've found a lot of caches in just over a year!  We've placed a few as well, and used nothing but the phone GPS to take readings and average them; the system seems to work.

 

We've considered buying a GPS unit; interesting to hear you say you did but don't use it.  Can I ask which one you bought?  We waver between learning to use a "real" GPS unit, and simply using our phones as they seem to work just fine.

 I bought the Garmin Dakota 20 for our trip to hawaii.  I was unsure if we would have service on the phone.  I loaded it with the caches there.  We had service and are so used to using the phone it was just easier for us. 

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A GPS unit is for sure a lot better for accuracy but you will have to keep in mind, that even then in heavily wooded area it will also have some issues for the same reason that your phone would. It will always be better but you will still run into some similar issues. Having both I will admit that I still prefer my cell phone. The app is absolutely fantastic and it's so much quicker and easier to use-makes things so easy.

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GPS accuracy (or at least, responsiveness) on the phones I first used for caching was certainly an issue, but I don’t think that’s the case now.  As others have said, any GPS will struggle near tall buildings and under tree cover.  And you have to remember there’s no guarantee that the cache coordinates are 100% accurate.  The GPS will get you to the approximate location but then your cache-sense needs to kick in. :-)

 

There are some cachers who only ever use phones, and there are others who only ever use a GPSr, but like many, I use both.  I prefer the GPSr for the planned hike in the country, but the phone comes into its own for impromptu urban caching.  Even on those hikes, I will get my phone out at GZ to check logs, photos, satellite imagery, etc., and to write draft logs, but generally I like to keep it safely tucked away for emergencies.

 

For me, the main advantages of a GPSr are robustness and battery life.  Tough phone covers and battery packs go some way to addressing these issues, but IMHO not quite far enough.  (Others will disagree.)

 

However, there is a learning curve.  We’re all familiar with the standard(ish) behaviour of phone apps these days, but learning how your new GPSr works may be more of a challenge!  And you do need to be better prepared and a little more tech-savvy, to get the correct maps and caches downloaded to the unit.

 

If you can get to a local event, I’m sure you’ll be able to get other cachers to ‘show and tell’.  Good luck.

Edited by IceColdUK
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We find it useful to have both, especially when looking for multi caches.  Read the information etc off the phone, then put coordinates into the etrex. Phone can give the latest information when away from home too. However, prefer to use etrex unit for precise measurement and when setting up caches.

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My vote is that a phone is very comparable to a GPSr these days. I have found 1700+ caches and probably 90% of those have been with my phone. I get instances where certain areas will have my GPS bouncing a bit but that happens with handheld GPS units as well. And the firmware on phones is updated constantly and updates are pushed out. And for handheld units firmware updates don't come out all that often or the user does not always remember to update the firmware.

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Which is better is quite subjective since personal use plays a huge factor in whether the device is "good". Even a lower quality device can be excellent for someone. That said, I'm 9 years caching, nearing 12,000 finds, only ever cached with iPhone (from 3GS to now an 8+).  Today's phones are certainly more than sufficient, so it's a matter of what you want in your device. Don't ask for objective quality - you might prefer an objectively lesser quality device because its usability - to you - is much better. Honestly, just find a device that suits you, financially, technologically, and maybe even principally :P

 

For phones, apps make a HUGE difference. Hardware is just fine. But you might not like any of the apps, which makes the hardware useless. Or you'll get the same "mine is better" debates going for apps just like between devices :)

 

I would suggest weighting people's reviews more who avoid generalizations based on personal experience, and focus on sharing their own experience as such.  It shows less bias, for lack of a better term.

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Today we had an unplanned stop in Tokyo on our way back from Europe. We would normally have had our Garmins loaded but not this time. I had my android phone with me so we were able to search for a couple of caches. Even so, I was finding it not quite as good at pinpointing GZ as our Garmins. I had my Garmin with me and got frustrated with the phone so I loaded the coords into the Etrex. Still DNF'd the cache but we left satisfied that we had a better shot at finding it. 

The above was a rather wordy way of saying that, like others, the phone is a backup.

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I have advances of both worlds with a setup that contains Android phone and Bluetooth GPS. I have used this setup about 8 years. When trustworthy coordinates are needed I can turn on the separate receiver which have similar receiving cababilities as a handheld GPS have but without need to setup the device forehand or on site.

Edited by arisoft
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My vote would be on the GPS but I have to say that I'm using my cell phone more often since the accuracy of the cell phone is much better. If I'm planning a trip I will definitely use my GPS because to track down my path and the order that I found my caches. Yes I love to get my stats accurate.

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On 6/7/2018 at 2:15 PM, Sherminator18 said:

My vote is that a phone is very comparable to a GPSr these days. I have found 1700+ caches and probably 90% of those have been with my phone. I get instances where certain areas will have my GPS bouncing a bit but that happens with handheld GPS units as well. And the firmware on phones is updated constantly and updates are pushed out. And for handheld units firmware updates don't come out all that often or the user does not always remember to update the firmware.

 

I think it is that I "believe" if I spent $$ my caching results would improve - lol

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Amazon has this:  Etrex 20x for $150, with free shipping.  These are sturdy little units.  The earlier version of this GPSr, Etrex 20, is what I use.  It's taken quite a beating and keeps on ticking. It's been dropped on rocks, flown off my bike onto pavement, and even floated down the river without the back cover on.  I'd certainly suggest screen protectors though, which can be purchased online for a few dollars.

 

 

Edited by noncentric
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4 hours ago, noncentric said:

Amazon has this:  Etrex 20x for $150, with free shipping.  These are sturdy little units.  The earlier version of this GPSr, Etrex 20, is what I use.  It's taken quite a beating and keeps on ticking. It's been dropped on rocks, flown off my bike onto pavement, and even floated down the river without the back cover on.  I'd certainly suggest screen protectors though, which can be purchased online for a few dollars.

 

 

This is good to know. I'm getting one! :)

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I have an etrex 20, it's been a faithful caching companion for 3 years, and has survived plenty of rough treatment with no issues.

However, I've worn out the rubber on the top of the little joystick thingy (probably because I keep it in a trouser pocket while walking, as well as all the use it has had in its actual function over 3000 cache finds ) .So, having found a repair from Garmin would be insanely expensive ( yes, I could buy a new bit of rubber off an auction site, and try to sort it out myself but then ... well, lets just say I'm far better at taking things apart than I am at getting them back together again ...) I thought I'd better see what was out there in case my little caching friend is no longer waterproof, and fails next time I fall in a river with it ...

 

The etrex 30x with mapping included was actually on offer at a lower price than an etrex 20 without mapping , so I decided to snap one up now, and get it set up and stashed away ready to take over seamlessly on the sad day when the faithful old 20 dies. However, although the case is the same, the interface is the same (or perhaps that should be, still entirely unintuitive !) etc etc, there is something I find most annoying  with the 'X' : the startup screen (where I put my e-mail & caching name in case of loss) is so dark, you can't read the startup  text. Then the display itself is significantly darker than the 20 (no 'x') to the point where I've had to try out most of the colour scheme options to find one that gives enough contrast to ovecome the poor readability. It also means that with the low contrast colours garmin used in their mapping I couldn't even see paths on the map when I was outdoors (I've now moved the  inbuilt maps to micro SD card and proper, free, talky toaster, sensibly coloured ones are installed there too and selected to use ) 

 

I wonder if the vaunted increase in screen resolution (why bother? It's tiny anyway ... if they want an improvement to shout about, fix the awful zoom & pan on the map screen ) may have involved a trade off between resolution and brightness, or maybe the backlight has been underpowered to extend quoted battery life if the higher resolution screen needs more power ?  Whatever the reason, I'm a mite miffed with the 'X' model, and if I was to recommend a garmin I'd say snap up an etrex20 but not  a 20X , don't pay for garmin maps either,  get the free ones I mentioned.

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When I started, in 2002, the only choice was a hand held Garmin  GPS V still use it today as it always works, has 24 battery life and is tough.

 

I then got a NUVI for in vehicle use.  They don't seem to hold up as I am on my 3rd one. However I can down load  PQs and thus caches pop up as I drive and I can find all kinds of goodstuff non geocaching related .

 

I then joined the modern age and got a smart phone.  It is by far easier to us to cache then any other.

 

Just left the Arctic Circle and found caches there.  Used the NUVI with a PQ to bring me to the area, used the handheld to find the caches. Used the smart phone as a paper weight.

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I have just returned from a road trip of just under 7,000 kms, which took me into the centre of Australia. There was often no phone signal. On some stretches, mostly not. (No radio stations either.) Besides, when there was a phone signal, mostly it wasn't my phone company, which tends to be more urban based. I was carrying an emergency  mobile phone for the phone company most likely to be found in remote places (Telstra), but that was a basic phone only for phone calls and texting. My normal phone was useless.

My Garmin etrex 30 however worked fine, and anyway, I find this easier to use.

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9 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I was carrying an emergency  mobile phone for the phone company most likely to be found in remote places

 

For emergency calls (911, or equivalent number in Australia), even a deactivated cell phone with an expired account (or no SIM at all) should be able to make the distress call with any network it can reach.  That's the way it works in Canada, and I think it's universal.  (There are also Personal Locator Beacons, PLBs, that bring a rescue without any cell signal, but that's another topic.)

 

Before I saw the need to own a fully-functioning cellphone, I hiked the woods with a surplus phone as described above, no plan, no bills.  Though I never tested it by calling 911, I'm confident it would've worked.  With my current working phone (Android), I'll occasionally see "Emergency Calls Only" instead of the name of my network.

 

And when I'm deep in the bush, my current phone is far from useless.  Loaded up with maps, caches, and a capable app, it functions as a complete GPS substitute.  Thinner, waterproof and rugged, better battery life, better screen, choice of app.  Beat that, Garmin.  icon_smile_evil.gif

 

e8ff40a6-67e7-4f20-9345-d661079297f8_l.j

 

Edited by Viajero Perdido
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7 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

 

For emergency calls (911, or equivalent number in Australia), even a deactivated cell phone with an expired account (or no SIM at all) should be able to make the distress call with any network it can reach.  That's the way it works in Canada, and I think it's universal.  (There are also Personal Locator Beacons, PLBs, that bring a rescue without any cell signal, but that's another topic.)

 

Before I saw the need to own a fully-functioning cellphone, I hiked the woods with a surplus phone as described above, no plan, no bills.  Though I never tested it by calling 911, I'm confident it would've worked.  With my current working phone (Android), I'll occasionally see "Emergency Calls Only" instead of the name of my network.

 

And when I'm deep in the bush, my current phone is far from useless.  Loaded up with maps, caches, and a capable app, it functions as a complete GPS substitute.  Thinner, waterproof and rugged, better battery life, better screen, choice of app.  Beat that, Garmin.  icon_smile_evil.gif

 

e8ff40a6-67e7-4f20-9345-d661079297f8_l.j

 

In Australia, we don't have mobile coverage over the whole country, so 000 (our emergency number, doesn't work in a lot of places). I do understand that if there is another company that has towers in the area where my company doesn't, I can dial 000 in an emergency. It's just that in a lot of places away from urban areas, there is no coverage by any company. The emergency I was thinking of - okay, not a 'real' emergency - but I carried a cheap mobile phone for Telstra, which has the broadest coverage, (I would use them all the time if they weren't so expensive) to make quick 'necessary' phone calls, such as booking accommodation, or for others to ring me. I only had limited prepaid calls on it, so I didn't use it except when absolutely necessary. If people in more remote areas want a phone, they use a satellite phone.

The phone I have can't beat my Garmin, which with good batteries will go several days. It also has maps. It will fit in my pocket, while my phone won't. I have also dropped the GPS on rocks several times (gulp) and it still works. I doubt my phone would have survived.

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