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I'M REALLY ANNOYED!


Meredith66

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OK so I'm new at this and have hidden 4 caches of my own....I'm annoyed and wondering WHY my geocaches are disappearing....I've disabled 2 out of 4 today and have replaced my very 1st on a few weeks ago...I'm feeling like I might not want to renew my subscription...I don't understand....WHY ARE MY GEOCACHES DISAPPEARING??

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It's hard to say for sure, but I do see references in the Find logs to "traffic" and "picture takers" and difficult parking. It could be "muggles" (non-geocachers) who stumble upon the containers. I also saw a reference to "lots of wildlife". Sometimes critters take/damage cache containers too.

 

My first cache was repeatedly muggled. I underestimated the abuse the location would take from skateboarders who used it as an unofficial skateboard park. But I learned a lot trying to keep that cache running, and my caches since then have required a lot less maintenance.

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Never underestimate the curiosity of young kids. It looks like those two caches are pretty close to trails. If the caches are hidden in spots that look interesting and are accessible to kids (like a big hollow tree or under a small bridge), you can expect that some little kid is going to explore and stumble upon your cache. Likewise if the hiding spot is visible from the trail and there's a big pile of hiding material (e.g. big pieces of bark, huge pile of rocks, etc.) that just screams out that something is hidden there. Hopefully they'll leave it in place, but they may also move it or take it.

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3 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Some of your caches seems to be in an open location and gets easily muggled. You could try to make a premium only cache next time and compare results. Sometimes premium only caches last a bit longer.

Making it PMO wouldn't have any effect on non-cachers who stumble upon it. If muggles are finding it easily, the only real solutions are to hide it in a less obvious way or move it to a different hiding spot.

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3 hours ago, Meredith66 said:

WHY ARE MY GEOCACHES DISAPPEARING??

Looking at your Hides, it looks like the areas are pretty urban looking to me, which means more traffic.  More traffic means more chances for accidental discovery by people that don't understand or don't care about the game.

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9 hours ago, The A-Team said:

Making it PMO wouldn't have any effect on non-cachers who stumble upon it. If muggles are finding it easily, the only real solutions are to hide it in a less obvious way or move it to a different hiding spot.

 

Statistics lies that PMO have some effect. Of course PMO status do not hide the cache any better from muggles but generally Premium Members may search the cache more stealthy than Basic Members which helps to keep it secret if the cache is well hidden.

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Are your caches clearly labeled as such including your GC name and GC number? An accidental find can result in the muggle replacing it as found (it would help if you included a stash note). There are cachers who started out as muggles who accidently found a cache.

Edited by colleda
typo
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6 hours ago, arisoft said:

Statistics lies that PMO have some effect. Of course PMO status do not hide the cache any better from muggles but generally Premium Members may search the cache more stealthy than Basic Members which helps to keep it secret if the cache is well hidden.

And of course, PMO status reduces the overall number of geocachers searching for the cache, which in turn attracts less attention from the local muggles.

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Make sure your caches are well-hidden. All my caches are in urban areas and only one has gone missing. (That was in a really lousy hiding spot, anyway).

 

Walk by the cache area and pretend you're a muggle. Would you notice the cache if you were walking by? Don't be afraid to put your caches off the trail a bit so muggles cannot get to them easily from the trail or parking lot. And remember that you shouldn't just put the cache on the ground and leave - make sure to give it some camouflage with pieces of bark, branches, inside a log, etc.

 

Hope this helps.

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3 hours ago, colleda said:

Are your caches clearly labeled as such including your GC name and GC number? An accidental find can result in the muggle replacing it as found (it would help if you included a stash note).

 

Yep.  We've had muggles sign our caches, replacing them with more concern than some cachers.  We believe it's the note that does that.

 - If you're not aware of what a stash note is ...      Stash Note.   A google search will supply a few variations as well.      :)

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18 hours ago, Meredith66 said:

I don't understand....WHY ARE MY GEOCACHES DISAPPEARING??

 

It's tough to guess. But if there are available places for a cache in a park, in an area of many caches, that's a clue. I put some caches in a county park, and local cachers then mentioned that over the years lots of caches came and went, that they could not keep caches there. Part of the reason was that the place would develop huge crowds at times (looked fine when the cache was placed). And landscapers routinely remove cache containers, or don't even notice them when mowing or tree trimming.

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13 minutes ago, kunarion said:

It's tough to guess. But if there are available places for a cache in a park, in an area of many caches, that's a clue. I put some caches in a county park, and local cachers then mentioned that over the years lots of caches came and went, that they could not keep caches there. Part of the reason was that the place would develop huge crowds at times (looked fine when the cache was placed). And landscapers routinely remove cache containers, or don't even notice them when mowing or tree trimming.

 

Yep. 

We see new folks placing caches in areas that never pan out (by all the archived ones prior...). 

They'll place a hide, thinking it's the best spot ever, wondering why no else thought of it, and then find out why.

 - We've yet to have one ask why.   I feel events are good for info like that.    :)

 

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21 hours ago, Team Christiansen said:

I saw your Owner Maintenance log on the Under the Leaves cache. You won't be able to change the coordinates using the Edit Admin Tool. You can only change coordinates by posting an Update Coordinates log.

Thank you...I might disable it....the edit tool shouldnt be there if it cant be used.

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I've never been a big fan of PMO caches.   I personally believe that all caches should be available to everyone.  I can't refute the logic that PMO caches tend to last longer and require less maintenance but there are many ways to limit how much cache maintenance you have to do without excluding a certain segment of the caching community from enjoying your hides.

 

My goal as a cache owner is to provide an enjoyable caching experience with the hopes that new cachers will  become old cachers. 

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15 minutes ago, Meredith66 said:

Thank you...I might disable it....the edit tool shouldnt be there if it cant be used.

 

It was removed once for this reason but many players complained that they need the edit tool to correct wrong coordinates because so many caches have wrong coordinates. It's primary function is to store solved coordinates for mystery caches. Definitely there is some kind of user interface problem but the legend  "Corrected Coordinates (hidden from others)" is quite clear.

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30 minutes ago, Meredith66 said:

Thank you...I might disable it....the edit tool shouldnt be there if it cant be used.

Don't disable it because you can't edit coordinates in the  Edit Admin Tool.

Posting an "Update Coordinates" log actually EDITS the posted coordinates cache page, it just doesn't add an informative log. Posting the log is actually easier then going into the Edit Admin Tool.

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21 minutes ago, arisoft said:

It was removed once for this reason but many players complained that they need the edit tool to correct wrong coordinates because so many caches have wrong coordinates. It's primary function is to store solved coordinates for mystery caches. Definitely there is some kind of user interface problem but the legend  "Corrected Coordinates (hidden from others)" is quite clear.

I was a bit confused at first, but I now understand that the OP tried to change the coordinates using the Corrected Coordinates feature.

 

Which leads me to...

Why the heck is that feature enabled on your own hides?! I can't think of a good reason why someone would need to use it in that way, and it would inevitably lead to confusion like this. Now that I realize that a CO can use Corrected Coordinates on their own hides, it explains a lot of confusing situations I've seen in the past where someone claimed that they had fixed the coordinates, but they actually hadn't.

 

HQ, please disable the Corrected Coordinates feature on a member's hides to prevent such confusion.

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10 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

Why the heck is that feature enabled on your own hides?!

 

I am using it heavily with my own mystery caches to find them when I am going to do some maintenance. But not traditionals. Correcting coordinates of your own traditional cache is not needed feature as far as I know.

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2 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

Can you explain more about your workflow? Why do you need to correct the coordinates when you have access to the waypoints as the owner?

 

I access the final (hidden) waypoint and adjust cache coordinates to the waypoint so I can see where it is. I have no use for the bogus.

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1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

I access the final (hidden) waypoint and adjust cache coordinates to the waypoint so I can see where it is. I have no use for the bogus.

What I meant was do you use a GPSr or phone app, download a PQ and/or use GSAK, etc.? In short, if you didn't have access to use Corrected Coordinates on your own caches, would it only require a minor change to your workflow? Personally, it seems like the benefits from removing this source of confusion would far outweigh the downsides.

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5 hours ago, The A-Team said:

What I meant was do you use a GPSr or phone app, download a PQ and/or use GSAK, etc.? In short, if you didn't have access to use Corrected Coordinates on your own caches, would it only require a minor change to your workflow? Personally, it seems like the benefits from removing this source of confusion would far outweigh the downsides.

What?

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7 hours ago, The A-Team said:

What I meant was do you use a GPSr or phone app, download a PQ and/or use GSAK, etc.? In short, if you didn't have access to use Corrected Coordinates on your own caches, would it only require a minor change to your workflow? Personally, it seems like the benefits from removing this source of confusion would far outweigh the downsides.

 

"Removing the source of confusion" has already been tried with bad reception. I guess there are many players using the same streamlined workflow.

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10 hours ago, The A-Team said:

I was a bit confused at first, but I now understand that the OP tried to change the coordinates using the Corrected Coordinates feature.

 

Which leads me to...

Why the heck is that feature enabled on your own hides?! I can't think of a good reason why someone would need to use it in that way, and it would inevitably lead to confusion like this. Now that I realize that a CO can use Corrected Coordinates on their own hides, it explains a lot of confusing situations I've seen in the past where someone claimed that they had fixed the coordinates, but they actually hadn't.

 

HQ, please disable the Corrected Coordinates feature on a member's hides to prevent such confusion.

For me the obvious reason is so that the icon on the map can display where the cache is actually hidden.  That helps in a number of ways.  (It calms my OCD lol)  But seriously when looking at the map to find a spot to hide a new cache you can easily see available spaces.  Then when out hiding the cache, either with your phone or GPSr you can see the proximity of caches if it is going to be a close fit.  The more of your own mystery caches you have, the more helpful this feature becomes.

 

Then the confusion part.  When clicking on the Corrected Coordinates feature a box will pop up with the following message.  Corrected Coordinates (hidden from others)  If you read that sentence, especially the part in the brackets.  Not sure how people can think that it will change the coordinates on their cache so that other cachers can  see the corrected coordinates.

Edited by Spesbona
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8 hours ago, Spesbona said:

Not sure how people can think that it will change the coordinates on their cache so that other cachers can  see the corrected coordinates.

 

The method to change coordinates have been a mystery long before the invention of the corrected coordinates. Beginners with limited experience have never seen a log for coordinate change and can not guess that there is a special log entry for that purpose. It was quite normal that other players had to instruct the CO to post new coordinates. Nothing has changed.

Edited by arisoft
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23 hours ago, 321geocache said:

Make sure your caches are well-hidden.

 

That depends on how you define "well hidden".  A cache that easily found by muggles might not be well hidden but making it more difficult to find by anyone with a GPS means it will longer for a geocacher to find it and make it more likely that a muggle will notice and subsequently discover that cache.  Hiding a cache in a location, where a geocache can search for and find the container without being seen by anyone else will likely result in a cache that is less likely going to be muggled than a "well hidden" cache.

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My definition of well-hidden means that the cache is either:

 

  • Hidden so muggles cannot see it, or
  • Hidden in plain sight, so that if a muggle walks by they can easily see it but not know it's a cache (fake bolts are an example of this)

If a cache is sitting in the open and is not camouflaged at all, (I've had this happen to me) then it will most likely be gone very soon.

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13 hours ago, 321geocache said:

My definition of well-hidden means that the cache is either:

 

  • Hidden so muggles cannot see it, or
  • Hidden in plain sight, so that if a muggle walks by they can easily see it but not know it's a cache (fake bolts are an example of this)

If a cache is sitting in the open and is not camouflaged at all, (I've had this happen to me) then it will most likely be gone very soon.

 

I think you missed my point.   If a cache is hidden so that muggles can't see it then a geocacher can't see it either.    A muggle might  discover a cache two ways.  They can see the cache themselves, or probably more likely,  watch a geocacher search for and find it.  If a hide is very difficult it increases the chance that a geocacher is going to be seen searching for it.

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I think caches in suburban  parks are among the hardest to own, and you've two of them. 

Just assume that kids will remove caches if they find them.  Start with that assumption, and then think on what you want to do. 

 

i agree with NYPaddleCacher above me - a tough hunt is a long hunt. Draws attention to itself and rouses the interest of onlookers.

 

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49 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

I think caches in suburban  parks are among the hardest to own, and you've two of them. 

Just assume that kids will remove caches if they find them.  Start with that assumption, and then think on what you want to do. 

 

i agree with NYPaddleCacher above me - a tough hunt is a long hunt. Draws attention to itself and rouses the interest of onlookers.

 

 Yep, round my area when I began caching I was vaguely puzzled why there was such a rush by the experienced cachers to get newbie hider's  caches in public parks found asap (and I don't mean just the FTF stampede) . After a while I  realised that these caches almost always went missing quite soon after being placed, so the old hands made sure to get there before the muggles.

Warning signs in the listing include a phrase something like " Our lovely local park  I don't know why there wasn't  a cache  here already ..." To which the honest response would be ... actually there have been several, but they didn't last !

 

Children are curious, they explore , hide,  build dens and hunt for bugs in precisely the kind of places a cache may be hidden, and they will prod stuff with sticks, kick piles of bark or leaves and have a lower viewpoint which may reveal a cache which is well hidden to adult eyes. And if while exploring they find a box of interesting toys or an intriguing little tube whith mysterious paper inside, and mo-one nearby to claim ownership, they will take it - it may be discarded elsewhere if they get bored, or distacted by something else suddenly  more interesting (Mum has bought ice cream ! Drop the thing !) , or if a parent is unimpressed with the treasure and tells them to put it back, or bins it,  but whichever it's not at GZ to be found any more.

 

If GZ is distinctive ... a lone tree stump for instance, or by a bench , gate or other easily remembered feature, replacing a muggled container is a waste of time, the junior muggles will remember and go to the landmark  (just as you do to maintain the cache) and see if there's anything there to take again. If you place a cache near an entrance , or by a car park, it may be more convenient to maintain,  but it's also going to see more passing traffic than one a long walk away, and therefore be more muggle prone.

 

After al  that, against all common sense, I have a cache in a public park though ... and I gave the placement a lot of  thought.

First it's a cache type that limits visits (a premium only Wherigo which requires some effort to complete) meaning there's less chance of someone being spotted searching.

Second, the final GZ is in woodland, out of sight of any paths and away from areas where  there are signs that children play.

Third, the hide is totally landmark free, it's utterly unremarkable,  you'd  have to stand on the thing to find it, altho' there is something nearby you can visually line up which I mention in the hint to help steer cachers the last few paces.

So far it has lasted 2 years, but I'm always a bit nervous if someone leaves a coin or TB in there, just in case.

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Well thank you all for your awesome advice being a new geocache sure I have come to realize that my Hiding spaces are really not that great although two of them are still active but I watch other people in other parts of the world whether it be different states or different countries they are very very clever with their hiding and I noticed in that people here at least in my area are so lazy but if I was to hide it any more than I am they wouldn't even try to look for it so I am just going to have to get a whole lot more clever with my hiding and I can honestly say that if people can't find my hives after today then they shouldn't be geocaching because I'm not just going to drop a camouflage bottle or container in the woods somewhere and expect somebody to find it I am going to get really clever with my geocaches. But once again thank you all for your advice I appreciate it so much...

 

To the people that think I just don't want to do maintenance on my geocaches that is simply not true not only do I go around and check my geocaches I also make sure that the ones that I find that are hidden from other people are well taken care of just yesterday I must have replaced logs baggies dried out containers for them and actually got notes back from the owner saying thank you tell maintenance is not an issue for me.

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47 minutes ago, Meredith66 said:

Well thank you all for your awesome advice being a new geocache sure I have come to realize that my Hiding spaces are really not that great although two of them are still active but I watch other people in other parts of the world whether it be different states or different countries they are very very clever with their hiding and I noticed in that people here at least in my area are so lazy but if I was to hide it any more than I am they wouldn't even try to look for it so I am just going to have to get a whole lot more clever with my hiding and I can honestly say that if people can't find my hives after today then they shouldn't be geocaching because I'm not just going to drop a camouflage bottle or container in the woods somewhere and expect somebody to find it I am going to get really clever with my geocaches. But once again thank you all for your advice I appreciate it so much...

 

To the people that think I just don't want to do maintenance on my geocaches that is simply not true not only do I go around and check my geocaches I also make sure that the ones that I find that are hidden from other people are well taken care of just yesterday I must have replaced logs baggies dried out containers for them and actually got notes back from the owner saying thank you tell maintenance is not an issue for me.


You don't necessarily have to be clever.  Just hide your caches in places where non geocachers are not likely to venture or look.   Avoid things such as concealing containers with piles of sticks or rocks. They only beg passersby to wonder what is hiding beneath that pile and they often investigate. Camo your containers when possible and use camo that matches the surroundings.  Paint works better than tape. Most camo tape is shiny and sticks out.

With some imagination, you can hide something well enough that someone who isn't looking for it is unlikely to find it accidentally, but someone who is looking for it may find it easily.

Also, reconsider the high traffic areas that you seem to favor.  No matter how well you hide something, if searchers are observed, non geocachers might become curious and start searching too. 

 

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2 hours ago, Meredith66 said:

Well thank you all for your awesome advice being a new geocache sure I have come to realize that my Hiding spaces are really not that great although two of them are still active but I watch other people in other parts of the world whether it be different states or different countries they are very very clever with their hiding and I noticed in that people here at least in my area are so lazy but if I was to hide it any more than I am they wouldn't even try to look for it so I am just going to have to get a whole lot more clever with my hiding and I can honestly say that if people can't find my hives after today then they shouldn't be geocaching because I'm not just going to drop a camouflage bottle or container in the woods somewhere and expect somebody to find it I am going to get really clever with my geocaches. But once again thank you all for your advice I appreciate it so much...

 

To the people that think I just don't want to do maintenance on my geocaches that is simply not true not only do I go around and check my geocaches I also make sure that the ones that I find that are hidden from other people are well taken care of just yesterday I must have replaced logs baggies dried out containers for them and actually got notes back from the owner saying thank you tell maintenance is not an issue for me.

Maintaining your caches so that others can enjoy them is what being a cache owner is all about.  Seems like you already get that.   Besides, maintanance can be fun especially if you enjoy visiting the places you hide your caches.

 

Don't worry about what others may or may not search for.    Hide caches you'd enjoy finding.   People tend to hide what thay see so hiding the norm in your area whon't change a thing.  Raise the bar on cache quality and eventually others will do the same. 

 

Good luck.          

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That is a hard one to answer. I think it's important to take a close look of the location you have them in. In our area we have had a lot of acreage/farm break-ins so it's imperative to find locations that will not disturb farm owners or be in high muggle areas. I have one out right now myself which worries me a little bit as well. If it's well hidden out of sight and away from muggles, you should not have any issues. Unfortunately that is a risk that you always have to be willing to accept that it could happen.

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