Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 13
Saved by God's grace

Hidden Creatures? Say Wha...

Recommended Posts

Same difference.

Would a challenge pass if it required obtaining all souvenirs for this "promotion"? :ph34r:

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, on4bam said:

Same difference.

Would a challenge pass if it required obtaining all souvenirs for this "promotion"? :ph34r:

 

 

"All souvenirs"? There are challenges with a requirement of having X amount of souvenirs, and they always pass. 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, EggsTheBest said:

"All souvenirs"? There are challenges with a requirement of having X amount of souvenirs, and they always pass. 

Exactly, and yet setting the challenge to require you to find 100 caches in 4 weeks is against guidelines, rephrase it to get all souvenirs of this promotion and it would pass even though  it even restricts the requirements more (to just these 4 weeks).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I doubt that a challenge requiring the possession of a certain souvenir would pass muster, just like the challenge of finding certain caches is not allowed. A challenge which required the final souvenir for the recent Planetary Pursuit promotion would not be allowed because that souvenir is no longer available.

 

Possessing a certain number of souvenirs is fine for a challenge, just like finding a certain number of caches is fine for a challenge.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Exactly, and yet setting the challenge to require you to find 100 caches in 4 weeks is against guidelines, rephrase it to get all souvenirs of this promotion and it would pass even though  it even restricts the requirements more (to just these 4 weeks).

Would it though? We know it is possible to require a certain number of Souvenirs, but is it possible to require specific Souvenirs?

 

Besides, right at the top of the list of things that are prohibited is "Requiring caches to be found in earlier years, as it is not attainable by someone new to the game." This means that the Hidden Creatures challenge cannot continue past the Hidden Creatures promotion. And given that "Challenge cache owners must show that they have met the challenge", the Hidden Creatures challenge cannot begin until Hidden Creatures promotion begins, and the challenge cache CO has an opportunity to earn the Souvenirs. And given that "Temporary caches intended to stay active for fewer than three months will not be published", and that the Hidden Creatures promotion doesn't last 3 months, I don't see a Hidden Creatures challenge being accepted.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Exactly, and yet setting the challenge to require you to find 100 caches in 4 weeks is against guidelines, rephrase it to get all souvenirs of this promotion and it would pass even though  it even restricts the requirements more (to just these 4 weeks).

 

 

Oh come on... 

Of all 644 existing souvenirs at least 193 are available anytime, and there's tons of souvenirs that are event or specific day related. 

Also, during this promotion you would need to put minimal effort to get 5-6 souvenirs so I really don't see a problem there. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, daywalk said:

My guess is that the private website company Groundspeak Inc, being a profit-driven business, wants to increase the website's attractiveness to advertisers.  The more page views, the higher the the price the company can charge for advertising.  Has there been a drop in website usage which they are trying to ameliorate  with two promotions in a row this year? We know that the Groundspeak company has increased the amount of advertising on cache pages in the last year, which indicates that they are trying to increase revenue.

Another point is that the Groundspeak company management are not concerned about the opinions of committed geocachers. They know that we are going to keep on geocaching because we love exploring different places and we love placing caches which give our caching colleagues enjoyable experiences. We're going to keep on being paying customers* for the Groundspeak website since in most parts of the world it's got a monopoly for geocache listings. The real target for these promotions is the beginner cacher, who's not yet  "addicted" and is quite likely to drift away from the activity after finding a few dozen caches. But if that new cacher is presented with a reason to invest more time and effort into finding caches, and if they see a reward for their efforts, well, they are very much more likely to  keep on caching and (most important) become another paying customer for the website.

So, are you against Groundspeak acquiring more paying customers?  The company has to have enough revenue to be sustainable and pay their employees an adequate wage.  The fact that HQ is in Seattle, which has a high cost-of-living and faces some business unfriendly city officials lately, also plays a role in the need for them to acquire new customers.  I don't understand why you seem to think that's a problem. If GS was just a money-hungry company, then couldn't they just increase the cost of Premium Membership?  The cost of PM has never increased!

 

 

22 hours ago, daywalk said:

As an aside, it's very much easier for new cachers to find a time-limited challenge such as 100 caches in 4 weeks because they haven't yet found many caches in their neighbourhood.  And, as usual, this promotion is designed for the Northern Hemisphere summer to satisfy that key USA market - it's midwinter in the Southern Hemisphere.

There are plenty of countries, besides the USA, that are in the Northern Hemisphere.  Canada and Europe, for example.  I don't know actual counts, but I would wager that the vast majority of user accounts are in the Northern Hemisphere.  Seems normal to me that a company would try to accommodate the majority of its users, instead of the minority.  And of course, if the promotion was at the opposite time of year, then the Northern Hemisphere members would be complaining.  Is there any way for the company to win?

 

 

22 hours ago, daywalk said:

* I use the term "Paying customer" instead of the Groundspeak company's inaccurate term "Premium member" because we are customers buying a product, not members. The difference is crucial. Members of a non-profit club have voting rights and control how their club is run.

What does this even mean?  Members of a non-profit club may have voting rights, but members of a for-profit club do not have voting rights beyond voting with their dollars.  Do you have voting rights at your gym where you pay membership fees to use the gym's equipment and services?  Not sure what 'crucial' difference you're trying to infer here.

 

  • Upvote 3
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm reading comments about how a cacher needs to get 100 finds to get all the souvenirs, as if every cacher has to get ALL of the souvenirs.  Cachers will still get souvenirs, even if they don't find 100.  A cacher that finds just 15 caches in a month will get more than half of the souvenirs.  If 'serious' cachers want a tougher challenge, then they can challenge themselves and/or participate in challenge caches.  Really, how can GS win?   Cachers complain if they put out a promotion that's too difficult or has a confusing point system, but then cachers also complain if they put out a promotion that's too easy or has a simple point system.  Seems like the only way to avoid complaints is to put out no promotions at all.  Oh, but then there would be cachers complaining that there isn't a promotion like there 'used to be'. Ugh!

 

 

On 5/30/2018 at 11:23 AM, usyoopers said:
On 5/29/2018 at 6:03 PM, barefootjeff said:

There could've been some fun possibilities to weave "habitats" in with cache attributes, like tree-climbing (birds or monkeys), wading (amphibians), swimming (fish), abandoned structure (vampires?), livestock (moo-cows), stealth required (timid creatures), night cache (nocturnal creatures), etc. But no, it's just a numbers game.

I must say I like your ideas a lot more, sounds like lots more fun!! I'm afraid we won't be going out of our way for those souvenirs

If souvenirs are based on attributes, then plenty of CO's will edit their cache pages to make it easier for other cachers to qualify for the souvenirs. Plus, it could happen that a cacher finds a cache with a specific attribute to get the souvenir, but then the CO edits the page and removes the attribute before the cacher submits their online Found It log. Imagine the complaints and appeals that would happen with that.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, noncentric said:
On 31/05/2018 at 4:23 AM, usyoopers said:
On 30/05/2018 at 11:03 AM, barefootjeff said:

There could've been some fun possibilities to weave "habitats" in with cache attributes, like tree-climbing (birds or monkeys), wading (amphibians), swimming (fish), abandoned structure (vampires?), livestock (moo-cows), stealth required (timid creatures), night cache (nocturnal creatures), etc. But no, it's just a numbers game.

I must say I like your ideas a lot more, sounds like lots more fun!! I'm afraid we won't be going out of our way for those souvenirs

If souvenirs are based on attributes, then plenty of CO's will edit their cache pages to make it easier for other cachers to qualify for the souvenirs. Plus, it could happen that a cacher finds a cache with a specific attribute to get the souvenir, but then the CO edits the page and removes the attribute before the cacher submits their online Found It log. Imagine the complaints and appeals that would happen with that.

 

Sorry, I was just trying to think of ways that Hidden Creatures and their habitats could be worked into caches - as it is, the cache hunt has nothing whatsoever to do with creatures or habitats, it's just a pure numbers chase. A few years back in the Roadtrip promotion, one of the weeks required a D5 or T5 cache, but I don't recall seeing an explosion of caches having their D/T rating changed to make it easy to game it. Was there an outcry of protest about that one?

Share this post


Link to post
Quote
  On 6/14/2018 at 2:57 AM, daywalk said:

As an aside, it's very much easier for new cachers to find a time-limited challenge such as 100 caches in 4 weeks because they haven't yet found many caches in their neighbourhood.  And, as usual, this promotion is designed for the Northern Hemisphere summer to satisfy that key USA market - it's midwinter in the Southern Hemisphere.

There are plenty of countries, besides the USA, that are in the Northern Hemisphere.  Canada and Europe, for example.  I don't know actual counts, but I would wager that the vast majority of user accounts are in the Northern Hemisphere.  Seems normal to me that a company would try to accommodate the majority of its users, instead of the minority.  And of course, if the promotion was at the opposite time of year, then the Northern Hemisphere members would be complaining.

Couldn't agree more. 

According to this infographic around 90% of caches are in Northern Hemisphere.

 

Also, what challenges to Southern Hemisphere geocachers face in their "winter" time? Because I can tell you how caching is in winter here, with -30C temperatures and tons of snow. During Planetary Pursuit promotion I was geocaching in snow which at a few places was all the way up to my hips. And I am not exaggerating. :) So I'm very glad to have a promotion during the season when caches are physically retrievable, without being frozen in ice and all that jazz.

Edited by EggsTheBest
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, noncentric said:

So, are you against Groundspeak acquiring more paying customers?  The company has to have enough revenue to be sustainable and pay their employees an adequate wage.  The fact that HQ is in Seattle, which has a high cost-of-living and faces some business unfriendly city officials lately, also plays a role in the need for them to acquire new customers.  I don't understand why you seem to think that's a problem. If GS was just a money-hungry company, then couldn't they just increase the cost of Premium Membership?  The cost of PM has never increased!

 

Yep.  Additionally, the basic functions of this hobby has still been able to remain free.    :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/14/2018 at 10:41 AM, on4bam said:

Same difference.

Would a challenge pass if it required obtaining all souvenirs for this "promotion"? :ph34r:

 

Probably not.

 

Oh, no, Groundspeak has different rules for one aspect of this game than another.  We have officially divided by zero.  Pardon me while I dive into my bunker, for the sky must be falling.

 

CL_Acorn.0.jpg

 

What's this?  Turns out it was just an acorn.

  • Funny 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:
10 hours ago, noncentric said:

So, are you against Groundspeak acquiring more paying customers?  The company has to have enough revenue to be sustainable and pay their employees an adequate wage.  The fact that HQ is in Seattle, which has a high cost-of-living and faces some business unfriendly city officials lately, also plays a role in the need for them to acquire new customers.  I don't understand why you seem to think that's a problem. If GS was just a money-hungry company, then couldn't they just increase the cost of Premium Membership?  The cost of PM has never increased!

 

Yep.  Additionally, the basic functions of this hobby has still been able to remain free.    :)

 

Wait, was that yep in agreement to the comment's sentiment, or answering the questions within the comment? :wacko::P:laughing:

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Sorry, I was just trying to think of ways that Hidden Creatures and their habitats could be worked into caches - as it is, the cache hunt has nothing whatsoever to do with creatures or habitats, it's just a pure numbers chase. A few years back in the Roadtrip promotion, one of the weeks required a D5 or T5 cache, but I don't recall seeing an explosion of caches having their D/T rating changed to make it easy to game it. Was there an outcry of protest about that one?

Not sure how to work the creatures into caches, although thebruce0 came up with something interesting over on page 2. Having the souvenir appear on the app after logging the qualifying find, which was a just-released app feature, could provide that 'find the creature' experience to cachers, especially kids.  And of course, there are now Hidden Creatures products in the geocaching Shop that can be purchased.

 

I didn't mean to say that there would be an "explosion" of caches with false attributes, but even a few would likely end up being mentioned in the forums as a 'bad' side-effect of the promotion. With the Road Trip promo, I did find a couple comments where cachers implied that caches were getting inaccurate D/T ratings because of the souvenir.  See HERE and HERE.  But there were also mentions about how cachers would share puzzle solutions so their friends could get the puzzle souvenir and how cachers create events just to get the meet the crew souvenir.  But really, any promotion is going to result in forum posts about how the promotion is promoting something 'bad'. Just seems inevitable.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, noncentric said:

I didn't mean to say that there would be an "explosion" of caches with false attributes, but even a few would likely end up being mentioned in the forums as a 'bad' side-effect of the promotion. With the Road Trip promo, I did find a couple comments where cachers implied that caches were getting inaccurate D/T ratings because of the souvenir.  See HERE and HERE.  But there were also mentions about how cachers would share puzzle solutions so their friends could get the puzzle souvenir and how cachers create events just to get the meet the crew souvenir.  But really, any promotion is going to result in forum posts about how the promotion is promoting something 'bad'. Just seems inevitable

 

Gosh, back in January I created an event for the Where in the World is Signal Australia Day promotion. I thought that's what we were supposed to do, but had I known creating events for event souvenirs like this was a bad thing, I'd have had second thoughts.

 

Edit to add: I wonder how many power trails have been created for the Hidden Creatures promotion...

 

Edited by barefootjeff
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Gosh, back in January I created an event for the Where in the World is Signal Australia Day promotion. I thought that's what we were supposed to do, but had I known creating events for event souvenirs like this was a bad thing, I'd have had second thoughts.

Personally, I have no problem with events created for whatever reason. Any excuse for cachers to get together an socialize is fine by me. But there will be cachers that think it's just 'gaming the system' or 'chasing stats' to create events when there's a "reward" that comes along with it.

 

 

51 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Edit to add: I wonder how many power trails have been created for the Hidden Creatures promotion...

Probably none.  I've been toying with the idea of putting out a series of caches, since the snow is starting to melt in the area that I've been scoping out. Still not sure when I'll get around to it, but if I do it during the promotion then I'm sure someone will think that I did it just to help people get the souvenirs - even though it's something that's been in the planning stages since winter.

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, noncentric said:
59 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Gosh, back in January I created an event for the Where in the World is Signal Australia Day promotion. I thought that's what we were supposed to do, but had I known creating events for event souvenirs like this was a bad thing, I'd have had second thoughts.

Personally, I have no problem with events created for whatever reason. Any excuse for cachers to get together an socialize is fine by me. But there will be cachers that think it's just 'gaming the system' or 'chasing stats' to create events when there's a "reward" that comes along with it.

 

I thought the whole point of having event-based souvenirs was to encourage people to host events. If hosting such events is "gaming the system", how is anyone supposed to get the souvenir? In the case of the Where in the World souvenir, the chance of someone locally just happening to have already planned an event for that weekend is pretty remote - in the last two years there've only been two events in this region and one of those was my Where in the World one - so if I hadn't "gamed the system", no-one in this region would have got the souvenir.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

Does somebody knows if LabCaches count to acquire the souvenirs? I would think they do (any cache or event), but in the past they sometimes didn't count for such challenges.

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, CaracalShan said:

Does somebody knows if LabCaches count to acquire the souvenirs? I would think they do (any cache or event), but in the past they sometimes didn't count for such challenges.

 

In a Blog post in 2013 (and who knows, something may have changed), in reference to how Lab caches affect milestones and statistics, it is stated that "Lab Caches will not award you a new souvenir".  In that context, it looks like the intent is to say that Lab Caches don't count toward Souvenirs.  But sometimes it's tough to translate statements from Groundspeak into English. :ph34r:

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post

Here we go again.  Am I actually the first to whine about the new souvenir hunt?  The countdown clock told me to start.  I did but I got no souvenir...

Share this post


Link to post

My countdown was off too, guess it was for another time zone.  My page indicates I can start finding Hidden Creatures now. 

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, elyob said:

Here we go again.  Am I actually the first to whine about the new souvenir hunt?  The countdown clock told me to start.  I did but I got no souvenir...

 

You're the first to raise an issue about it.  I don't read it as a whine, but your call.

 

Souvenirs can be buggy at the outset, but they normally get it right within a day.  This is a Groundspeak promotion, so they have a vested interest in making it work.  You can always contact the help center for issues like this if it doesn't get resolved to your liking.

 

I went out yesterday thinking it had started, then realized that I was about seven hours too early.  Oops.  I plan to go back out this evening; we'll see if it is up and running for me by then.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Does anyone know do you need to be a Premium member to get the souvenirs and are these souvenirs digital or they are sending out actual coins?

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Gabeman26 said:

Does anyone know do you need to be a Premium member to get the souvenirs and are these souvenirs digital or they are sending out actual coins?

From the Help Center article Souvenirs: "Souvenirs are virtual pieces of art displayed on your public profile."

 

The "Shop Geocaching" site has various products related to the promotion, but you have to buy them.

https://shop.geocaching.com/default/new-items/hidden-creatures

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Gabeman26 said:

or they are sending out actual coins?

 

Ooh, I wish!

 

I messed up. We had spotty cell service while geocaching this morning, and in the end I accidentally duplicated one found it log and accidentally logged a Found It on a cache I clearly stated I did not find.  It took me awhile to get it sorted out. Next time I'm not logging till I get home!

I accidentally have an extra souvenir that I haven't earned yet. Now I feel guilty. I fully intend to find 100 caches during the promotion, so I guess in the end it doesn't matter, but still......

 

Will someone please make me feel better and tell me I'm a bad, good-for-nothing, cheating geocacher?

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Gabeman26 said:

Does anyone know do you need to be a Premium member to get the souvenirs and are these souvenirs digital or they are sending out actual coins?

You do not need to be premium, no. One of my kid accounts is basic and they are earning the souvenirs.

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, EmzyJanezy said:

Do you have to register / accept the challenge anywhere or does it happen automatically?

It happens automatically.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

 

Ooh, I wish!

 

I messed up. We had spotty cell service while geocaching this morning, and in the end I accidentally duplicated one found it log and accidentally logged a Found It on a cache I clearly stated I did not find.  It took me awhile to get it sorted out. Next time I'm not logging till I get home!

I accidentally have an extra souvenir that I haven't earned yet. Now I feel guilty. I fully intend to find 100 caches during the promotion, so I guess in the end it doesn't matter, but still......

 

Will someone please make me feel better and tell me I'm a bad, good-for-nothing, cheating geocacher?

 

I hope I don't make you feel worse by saying: Mistakes happens, at least you corrected yours, which makes you a cool cat! :)

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Will someone please make me feel better and tell me I'm a bad, good-for-nothing, cheating geocacher?

 

YOU MONSTER

 

:laughing:

 

Managed to get 17 finds this afternoon/evening, so off to a good start after what's been a pretty slow June.  It'd be nice to snag all 13 critters, though I do need to balance a bit with work and with our upcoming move to Germany.  It's rather tedious when life interferes with geocaching...

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, Gabeman26 said:

Does anyone know do you need to be a Premium member to get the souvenirs and are these souvenirs digital or they are sending out actual coins?

 

Purely digital.  It looks like you found several souvenirs for the planetary pursuit promotion awhile back.  The Hidden Creatures promotion will be similar.  As you qualify for them they'll appear on the Souvenirs tab in your profile:  https://www.geocaching.com/p/default.aspx?u=Gabeman26&tab=souvenirs#profilepanel

 

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, EmzyJanezy said:

Do you have to register / accept the challenge anywhere or does it happen automatically?

 

I wish it was the former but it's not.   If you find any caches between June 27 and July 25 you'll automatically get so.  uvenirs added to your profile.  

 

Regarding the question about real coins.  There are numerous tours/challenges out there that after finding all (or some number) of caches that are part of  the tour one can get a real physical geocoin.  There are several central New York Parks challenges currently going on here.  On the local CNY Facebook group someone posts "leaderboards" almost daily show how many caches in each park geocachers have found.   This is the third of fourth year that it's been done and it seems grow everyone year.  I'm not on any of the leader boards as I've not found any caches in these parks.  At the end of the CNY parks challenge most of these caches will get archived and new ones placed for next years challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Purely digital.  It looks like you found several souvenirs for the planetary pursuit promotion awhile back.  The Hidden Creatures promotion will be similar.  As you qualify for them they'll appear on the Souvenirs tab in your profile:  https://www.geocaching.com/p/default.aspx?u=Gabeman26&tab=souvenirs#profilepanel

 

Wow thats awesome, I didn't even notice I was getting souveniers I was just caching didn't know I was earning stuff!

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/27/2018 at 3:13 PM, Max and 99 said:

 

I accidentally have an extra souvenir that I haven't earned yet. Now I feel guilty. I fully intend to find 100 caches during the promotion, so I guess in the end it doesn't matter, but still....

I know this news may only be relevant to a minor few, but.....

If you  have made a logging mistake like I did, the system eventually self-corrected,  making my souvenir earnings accurate! Yippee!

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/28/2018 at 10:44 AM, Gabeman26 said:

Wow thats awesome, I didn't even notice I was getting souveniers I was just caching didn't know I was earning stuff!

Gabeman26, you're on a roll!  6 Hidden Creatures souvenirs already. Woot!!

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Gabeman26, you're on a roll!  6 Hidden Creatures souvenirs already. Woot!!

 

I got 5 on the same day! Me and a couple of geocachers I met at an event went through a good spot full or caches.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 13

×