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TB not logged in cache - grab it from somewhere else not an option

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Hello,

 

I know this question has probably been asked a few times before so sorry about that. I just couldn't find a fitting answer to my "situation". Hope some of you experienced geocachers can help me. :-)

 

I recently found a TB in a cache but only got the chance to log it after I left the cache. However, I took it with me and then realized that it had not been logged since 2016. According to the TB's page it's still in the hands of a different cacher. From the cache's log I do know tho that it was the owner who dropped it off there, sending their TB on new travels, just a couple days before I found it so I know it must've at least gone through the hands of one more person (including the owner) since the last log entry. As the official current holder has had it almost 2 years ago I decided to contact the owner who dropped it off but did not get a response.

It doesn't give me the "grab it from somewhere else" option when I want to log it, just "grab from current holder" (which I did not), "discover it" or "write note". 

 

So now I'm wondering what to do. It almost seems to me as if it may not be an issue for the owner themselves that it's not logged correctly so should I just write a note where I picked it up and then write another one when I drop it off? Or will it be logged in the cache if I discover it there? I know that this actually is the option if I don't take it, I'm just wondering if it will go in the cache's inventory then so I can grab it in a second step? Or do grab it from the current holder and write a note that I actually did find it in a cache? That option just doesn't feel right..?

 

I'll also wait for a reply to my message a couple more days but I'm going on holidays in a couple days so thought it might be nice to drop off the TB then as it's supposed to go on a journey. :-) I just want to do that as correctly as possible. 

 

Well, thanks in advance for any tips!

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If nobody replies to you, grab it from current holder. Especially if a lot of time has passed. You can visit it through the cache it was in, if you wish, to add those miles and that history to it, by writing a note and using the drop down menu before submitting the log.

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The logs are named according to what you're doing within the logging system, not what you're doing in real life. From the system's point of view, you are, in fact, grabbing the TB from the current holder, so you should use that log type. That's exactly what it's for.

 

In your grab log, tell the story you told us. You did a very good job on the research, and that's interesting information that anyone looking at the TB, especially the owner, will enjoy hearing.

 

After you grab it so it's in your inventory, go back and edit your found log on the cache and select the "visit" option on that TB's line at the bottom of the form. That will tell the system that the TB was in that cache so it will correctly show it on the map and reflect that in the mileage. Once you do that, the system will automatically add a blank visit log to the TB's log. If you want, you can edit that log to add anything more you might want to say about the TB being in the cache that's independent of what you already said in the grab log when you took it from the current holder.

 

If the TB looked more active, I might be more inclined to try to contact the current holder first as you've done, but when I find a TB that's been off the grid for two years, I think it's much more important to tell the TB's owner that it's back in play as soon as possible. The current holder held the TB for two years without a peep, so I see no reason to expect him to log the drop at all, and I certainly feel no need to be concerned about getting in the way of his plans for logging this TB now.

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Since so many trackables are incorrectly logged these days, I'd simply grab it from the current holder.  

If the TO is still active, I'll Grab, then Visit it to the cache I got it from, to start mileage correctly (from my end...) again.  Just  "Grabbed from (the name), but was found in (GC# or cache name)" or similar, then mention in my Visit log that "I'm Visiting this cache, correcting it for mileage.  Hope that helps  :) " or similar.     Later finders can see the force was strong with you.

A TO no longer active, I'd just Grab from current holder and Drop it into another cache later, saving me yet another correction.  ;) 

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I have Grabbed the odd one or two TB's in the past ....
If I have I've all way dropped the said TB back in the cache in which I just found it in , as others have pointed out , this corrects its mileage .

I also like at the point in a slightly different way ,,,,, 

I move TB , ( NOT HOLD ON TO THEM ) and when I can I like to move them on with in two weeks , some times this isn't humanly possible , some times I will move them on the very same day if it meets the TB's mission , and on the odd occasion I have had to grab the TB first ,

as in my book - " if the TB's in my hands its in my inventory - ready to be dropped off " 

 

holding on to TB's , waiting for them to be logged by the currant holder - is how they become lost and forgotten

P.s - this is just how I think , I don't expect other to do the same , all I ask is that any TB is logged and moves from cache to cache and not spend months sat in the bottom of a ( Free App ) users pocket 

give the humble trackable more worth in the game 

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4 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

A TO no longer active, I'd just Grab from current holder and Drop it into another cache later, saving me yet another correction.  ;) 

I find this odd. The TO's not the only person that might be interesting in the TB. Besides, doesn't it take more effort to determine that the TO's no longer active than it would to just assume he's active and visit the TB to the cache you found it in?

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Found one that had been sitting in the cache for 3.5 years.  (Cache had not been logged in 3.5 years...)  It was not logged into that cache.   I just grabbed it.  TBO missing since 2011.  My nephew took it to Australia.  Cache in Australia that it was in was archived last November.   Well, it did travel 16000 miles.  Sad to see that the CO did not maintain the cache it was in.

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On more than one occasion I've dropped a TB into a cache and then have it grabbed off me before I got home to log it in. Surely they could have waited 24 hours.

Edited by colleda
typo

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1 hour ago, colleda said:

On more than one occasion I've dropped a TB into a cache and then have it grabbed off me before I got home to log it in. Surely they could have waited 24 hours.

 

Yeah...    

One here's notorious for rarely logging trackables, sometimes weeks on end. Can cache all that time too.   But right after you log it (or the time it takes to get home), it's grabbed back. 

Had that a couple times from others as well.  Sheesh...

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3 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

Found one that had been sitting in the cache for 3.5 years.  (Cache had not been logged in 3.5 years...)  It was not logged into that cache.   I just grabbed it.  TBO missing since 2011.  My nephew took it to Australia.  Cache in Australia that it was in was archived last November.   Well, it did travel 16000 miles.  Sad to see that the CO did not maintain the cache it was in.

 

I dropped a TB in one of my newer caches a year or so back, as it had been getting regular visitors, but from that day forward there were no more finders and then a few months later the container was washed away in a flood, taking the TB with it. If a cache is archived because it's gone missing (the most common reason, particularly if it's archived by a reviewer responding to an NA), it wouldn't matter whether the CO is doing maintenance or not, the TBs in it would still be missing.

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13 hours ago, colleda said:

On more than one occasion I've dropped a TB into a cache and then have it grabbed off me before I got home to log it in. Surely they could have waited 24 hours.

I do try to wait at least a day if I can afford to. But I'm not going to delay logging my subsequent drop waiting for you to log your earlier drop. Does it make that much difference to you if I have to grab it from you?

 

Also, is 24 hours a hard limit? Or are there times you want me to wait a few days? Oh, and by the way, how do I know it's been 24 hours? I have no way whatsoever to know how long that TB's been sitting in that cache until you log it.

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4 hours ago, dprovan said:

I do try to wait at least a day if I can afford to. But I'm not going to delay logging my subsequent drop waiting for you to log your earlier drop. Does it make that much difference to you if I have to grab it from you?

 

Also, is 24 hours a hard limit? Or are there times you want me to wait a few days? Oh, and by the way, how do I know it's been 24 hours? I have no way whatsoever to know how long that TB's been sitting in that cache until you log it.

Splitting hairs here? If situation was reveresed I'd probably wait a day or two. I rarely drop a TB on the same day I pick it up.

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21 hours ago, colleda said:

Splitting hairs here? If situation was reveresed I'd probably wait a day or two.

No, sorry, I don't know what you mean. I'm not splitting hairs. My point is that there's never a good reason to wait to grab a TB if you need to grab it. I was just asking for your opinion on how long I should wait if I don't need to grab it, but I wanted to know how you suggest I do it based on the information I would have available to me, the person who has to make the decision. Your original statement only explained how to make the decision based on information that only the person that hasn't logged the drop yet would have, and that doesn't help me.

 

I find that people complaining about "quick" grabs never seem to look at it from the other side where there's very little information about how long the TB's been in the cache and how long it might take the dropper to log the drop. I'm happy to wait a day or two, I'm just going to set the timer based on when the TB might possibly have been dropped, which -- guess what? -- is typically more than a day or two before I find it.

 

21 hours ago, colleda said:

I rarely drop a TB on the same day I pick it up.

So you do drop TBs on the same day from time to time, so you must agree my point is valid. The fact that you rarely do it doesn't seem relevant to the discussion. Sure, there's no requirement to log everything right away. Heck, I'm a week behind on my logs right now. But no one should be told they have to wait to log if they prefer to keep their logging up-to-date.

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On 5/9/2018 at 8:26 PM, dprovan said:

My point is that there's never a good reason to wait to grab a TB if you need to grab it.

Can you give one or two examples for such need?

In 15 years and hundreds of moved TBs I never felt a true need to grab it even within weeks. It does not hurt anybody having a TB for an extended time as long as the TB owner knows about the situation.

 

What I do when the TB is not logged into the cache

*) At home when logging my founds I take a look at the history of the TB and the logging history of the presumably current or last holder.

*) I'm logging a note at the TB stating where I found the TB and that I will wait at least some days before I grab it.

*) In most cases I will write a quick mail reminding the holder to drop it in the cache I found the TB including a link to the TB and to the cache.

*) I will wait at least 2 weeks before grabbing from another cacher.

*) In case the last holder is a regular cacher and regular TB mover but seems to be within a hiatus I suspect he is away from the internet and will wait even longer.

*) If the TB is logged into the wrong cache I grab it after some days but then I will drop and retrieve it from the right cache I found it.

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Depending on the situation I'd make it a case by case judgement call. In some cases, I might grab right away, in some cases I might wait. If it's just mileage for the cache it was in, visiting after grabbing it is sufficient, but if the current holder intends to add other locations to its mileage they can't.

 

OTOH, if I grab it and they want to add mileage, I can still lend a hand - at worst, I could post notes back-dated to the visit date on the caches it's to visit, then delete those cache notes but the TB visit logs will be there for mileage (even though dropped by me instead of the previous holder).  But the less-work way is just to swap the TB back, finish logging and return it to the latest holder then clean up the extra logs.

 

But like Hynz, I have no issue with not logging the TB grab/pick-up if I think the current holder is in the process of logging caches in order and will get to the TB shortly. That happens to me often. I usually do the history check to ensure it's been dropped in the cache I found it at, and if not, check the TB and cache history, and the current holder's find history before deciding how to proceed.

 

And like colleda, I rarely drop a TB the same day I pick it up. And on the rare occasion I do, I have a mental nag the rest of the day that I need to get my logging done ASAP lest someone who doesn't care comes along and grabs the TB from me before thinking about the repercussions I mention above. Ironically, it happens all too often on those 'rare' days of same day pickup/dropoff. Usually it means they just got to the cache right after I visited and left the TB I just picked up that day, were someone who also picks up TBs, and were someone who absolutely has to have every TB they pick immediately in their possession. Fascinating how often those circumstances occur simultaneously as rarely a context as they could even happen :P

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10 hours ago, Hynz said:

Can you give one or two examples for such need?

In 15 years and hundreds of moved TBs I never felt a true need to grab it even within weeks. It does not hurt anybody having a TB for an extended time as long as the TB owner knows about the situation.

The specific need I had in mind is filing a log for it at another cache now that I have it. I can't log a visit or a drop until I log the grab. And, I promise you, I'm not going to delay logging my visit or drop just because the previous finder hasn't yet filed his drop.

 

Personally, I'm shocked you keep TBs for weeks, let alone that you keep them for weeks without telling the system where they are. I'm really surprised any owners put up with that since there's almost no value to them for their TBs to be stopped cold waiting for a log that might never happen, not to mention risk you forgetting about the TB while you're waiting for that log that never happens. And that's before I think about how minuscule the downside of grabbing it right away is. It really isn't a big deal for the person that needs to delay the drop log to have to log a note instead of a drop when he explains what took him so long.

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9 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

But like Hynz, I have no issue with not logging the TB grab/pick-up if I think the current holder is in the process of logging caches in order and will get to the TB shortly. That happens to me often. I usually do the history check to ensure it's been dropped in the cache I found it at, and if not, check the TB and cache history, and the current holder's find history before deciding how to proceed.

Don't tell Hynz, but I take into account what I can see about the situation and adjust my behavior when I can just like you do. That's all very nice. But the point is it isn't a requirement and, in particular, I'd rather encourage someone not interested in pawing around the TB's history to err on the side of grabbing it right away so we all know sure know where it is now since where it is now is the most important piece of information.

 

While I understand the concept of waiting just in case, the fact is that in all the times that I have waited, the drop usually isn't filed, anyway. And even when waiting did result in a proper drop, I don't think I've ever seen a case where a bunch of delayed visits were logged, too.

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58 minutes ago, dprovan said:

Don't tell Hynz, but I take into account what I can see about the situation and adjust my behavior when I can just like you do. That's all very nice. But the point is it isn't a requirement and, in particular, I'd rather encourage someone not interested in pawing around the TB's history to err on the side of grabbing it right away so we all know sure know where it is now since where it is now is the most important piece of information.

 

While I understand the concept of waiting just in case, the fact is that in all the times that I have waited, the drop usually isn't filed, anyway. And even when waiting did result in a proper drop, I don't think I've ever seen a case where a bunch of delayed visits were logged, too.

 

Yep, generally speaking, it's quite easy to 'fix' a hasty grab, so it's not the end of the world if someone grabs the TB before you drop it, or vice versa. It's just a tiny bit of a minor annoyance, typically on princple. And again, the closer I am to a cacher's activity who hasn't yet dropped the TB, the more likely I am to wait a day or two, but more likely to shoot a message over first, then wait. Not out of concern of messing things up, but just because it's no biggy to do that, IMO.

I think for some it's more like a proxy annoyance - someone grabbing it from me too quickly raises the flag in my mind that now I can't give the TB the mileage the CO might want. But it's really NBD in the grand scheme either way.

 

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Guess that's why I'm not interested in moving Trackables anymore.  2/3 cache.  Half an hour drive home.  Already grabbed from me!  Dropped a Trackable in an event.  The lady across the table from me grabbed it.  Said I had not logged it properly!  And ignored my posts when I grabbed it back and put it back in the event.  

Guess that's why I'm not interested in moving Trackables anymore.  No consideration from the next finder.  Good golly!  Give me a few hours to log it into the cache!  

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10 hours ago, dprovan said:

The specific need I had in mind is filing a log for it at another cache now that I have it. I can't log a visit or a drop until I log the grab. And, I promise you, I'm not going to delay logging my visit or drop just because the previous finder hasn't yet filed his drop.

 

Personally, I'm shocked you keep TBs for weeks, let alone that you keep them for weeks without telling the system where they are. I'm really surprised any owners put up with that since there's almost no value to them for their TBs to be stopped cold waiting for a log that might never happen, not to mention risk you forgetting about the TB while you're waiting for that log that never happens.

 

The owner receives my note log via mail and anybody interested can look up my note on the TB page. So I do not agree to your statement that I leave the system in the unknown.

 

For me the highest priority is that in the end the history of the TB is as close to the reality as possible. I agree that it can be possible to grab and to repair the history afterwords (been there, done that) but while I'm able to do my part often the other part is clueless how to do it or even understand why they should.

 

I will always post pictures of TBs when retrieving and dropping and will always write some words even in the drop log and if I can move a TB quickly I will always do.

With this in mind I don't see any problem hanging on TBs sometimes longer than just a couple of days. TBs I find often stayed for weeks and even months in the caches I retrieved them anyway since I like hunting rarely visited caches.

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On 5/15/2018 at 3:45 PM, dprovan said:
On 5/15/2018 at 5:22 AM, Hynz said:

 ...  It does not hurt anybody having a TB for an extended time as long as the TB owner knows about the situation.

  ...  Personally, I'm shocked you keep TBs for weeks, let alone that you keep them for weeks without telling the system where they are. 

 

I recently picked up a few TB's and they have a goal I can fulfill - but not for another month when we travel.  I contacted all the TO's, asking if I can hold onto them in order to move them in a month or so closer to or in keeping with their goal.  All but one have responded, and said YES! - keep them, take them with you, and they were happy to know they were in my hands and still in play and moving!  

 

So the "system" / TO knows where they are, and that I will be visiting them to various caches locally, and then taking a major cross country leap in June, dropping some in NY and some in Florida.  If the history is not showing the TB in the cache I found it, I'll wait a day or two and then just grab it from wherever it is and log it from that point forward.  Most of the TB's I've had have been properly logged in the caches I found them or in the event where I picked them up.

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On 5/16/2018 at 2:29 AM, Hynz said:

The owner receives my note log via mail and anybody interested can look up my note on the TB page. So I do not agree to your statement that I leave the system in the unknown.

Yes, a human reading the log can guess where the TB is. But the system still lists it in the cache. While satisfying that one person by not grabbing the TB he might possible drop at some unspecified point in the future, you're annoying others because a cache's TB listing doesn't agree with the cache contents.

 

On 5/16/2018 at 2:29 AM, Hynz said:

For me the highest priority is that in the end the history of the TB is as close to the reality as possible.

Yeah, this is our main disagreement, I guess. To me, the highest priority is where the TB actually is right now. I suppose that might be mainly because the history I'm imagining we might miss is a string of mindless visits that I'd prefer to miss, anyway. In my experience, I'd say a quick grab getting in the way of any previous history is rare enough, but I wouldn't expect that lost history to ever be interesting logs about visits relevant caches. There seem to be very few of us that actually write visit logs.

 

On 5/16/2018 at 2:29 AM, Hynz said:

With this in mind I don't see any problem hanging on TBs sometimes longer than just a couple of days.

Hey, I don't have any problem with keeping TBs for a while. Just a couple weeks ago I finally dropped a TB I'd been carrying for a month because I could help it achieve it's difficult to achieve goal. I just don't think that feeling a need to delay a grab log just in case someone might eventually log a drop log is a very good reason.

 

2 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

I recently picked up a few TB's and they have a goal I can fulfill - but not for another month when we travel.  I contacted all the TO's, asking if I can hold onto them in order to move them in a month or so closer to or in keeping with their goal.  All but one have responded, and said YES! - keep them, take them with you, and they were happy to know they were in my hands and still in play and moving!  

Sure. I don't even bother to ask the TO directly, although I do mention my plans in my retrieve log and once in a while in the visit logs along the way. I have to admit, I was reacting to Hynz mainly because I thought the implication was that he regularly holds TBs without logging them for weeks at a time, so he felt that delaying the grab for a couple weeks wouldn't make any difference.

 

2 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

So the "system" / TO knows where they are...

Yes, the amount of time you hold on to the TB is a different issue when you are actually logging the TB.

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