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Loonwatcher

New category idea: Franco-ontarien

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Greetings. I manage the group http://www.Waymarking.com/groups/members.aspx?f=1&guid=d345ab93-4481-4d96-aa9a-2967685892f2 .  My proposal for a new category would be to waymark anything having the Franco-ontarian flag nearby.

Franco-Ontarians are francophone residents of the Canadian province of Ontario. They have their own official flag (see group description).

According to the last Canadian census, Franco-Ontarians constitute the largest French-speaking community in Canada outside Quebec, as well as the largest minority language group within Ontario (2.2% of the total population)

The francophone population is mostly concentrated in Eastern Ontario, in Ottawa, and a number of smaller towns throughout the province. Most communities in Ontario have at least a few Franco-Ontarian residents.

This Waymark Category would include FO flags, monuments, institutions offering services in french or any building ending in "franco-ontarien". I am not sure in which Main Category this would fit, but I am thinking Culture or History.

I would be glad to answer any inquiries and to participate in a discussion on the validity of this proposed category.

 

Edited by Loonwatcher
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10 hours ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

No disrespect to the proud Franco-Ontarians, but this category is not global, and it is redundant with many other categories, for a start. 

Thank you BB. I was afraid of that, but still curious as to the level of support this proposal would receive.  I also know that some possible waymarks in this new category can be found elsewhere. There are however, many categories which are not 'global' and are 'redundant'. I'll wait for more feed back then decide if I will offcially send in a new category proposal to Groundspeak.

 

11 hours ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

No disrespect to the proud Franco-Ontarians, but this category is not global, and it is redundant with many other categories, for a start. 

 

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19 hours ago, Loonwatcher said:

institutions offering services in french

Given that French is one of the two official languages in Canada, is it not true that all government service centres must provide service in French and English? Certainly all federal gov service centres. For that reason I think including any "institutions offering services in french" would be off-topic.

I wonder if the flags / monuments would fit in the Nations within Nations category. Reading the description for that category, it doesn't look like it. Although it never hurts to check with the category managers to be certain.

Bon Echo, in the not-so-franco Golden Horseshoe region

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Thanks BE.  I was thinking of the Caisse Desjardins or any institution displaying the franco flag.

I see that this proposal would not probably be recognized and am inclined to put the matter to rest.  I do appreciate your input and the possible tracks to explore.

LW

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I can think of dozens of schools flying that Franco flag but I don't think schools would be a good thing to waymark. 

I think this category might have worked back in the day when state and provincial historical categories were first created.  I would vote yes now but that's because I know of hundreds of potential waymarks.

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Thanks elyob.  Certainly active schools would be off limits. Thanks for your feedback.

If I do pursue, do I send in a proposal directly to Groundspeak?

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9 hours ago, Loonwatcher said:

If I do pursue, do I send in a proposal directly to Groundspeak?

The very first thing you need to do is to read the guidelines for creating a group, then a category.

Keith

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Thanks elyob. Yes indeed. My group is all set to go.  Three members + myself. Is there a mising link in the guidelines to "promote" members to officer status? From there, I might take my chances.

PS: Care to join my group? If not, I will certainly see you around the trails in the ottawa region.

Jacques

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Living far away from Canada, I've never heard of that kind of flag. You learn something new every day. Using my favourite search engine I also learned that there are more language related flags like
Franco-Manitoban flag
Franco-Albertan flag
Esperanto flag
and many more.

So, would it be a good idea to create a category for "language related flags" to make the subject more global?

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I will join the group after I complete this post.  What if this potential category is geographically expanded to cover sites (usually marked by a Francophone regional flag or an image of such a flag) on a more global basis?  As PISA-caching has noted, there are other Francophone regions in Canada.  There are also sites beyond Canada, especially sites related to the Acadians which can be found in Maine, Louisiana and Texas. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadians

Are there similar communities celebrating their Francophone regions at interesting sites in places like the French Caribbean, Indo-China, Pondicherry (India) and Africa?  I expect that flags, coats of arms, and other icons of Francophone regions would include the fleur-de-lis.  The Acadian flag is a significant exception.

Edited by elyob

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I personally would love to see more than just Francophone regional flags. That's why I also mentioned the Esperanto flag. The more I research the more interesting the topic gets. Until a few minutes ago I didn't know that beside Esperanto there are also languages like Talossan, Ido etc. and they all have their own flags. But there are also flags for languages that are not constructed, like the Tino Rangatiratanga flag and I'm sure that there are many more flags for people who share the same language. So, the more flags we can include in this category, the more interesting it will be to browse through it (in my humble opinion).

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13 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

I personally would love to see more than just Francophone regional flags. That's why I also mentioned the Esperanto flag. The more I research the more interesting the topic gets. Until a few minutes ago I didn't know that beside Esperanto there are also languages like Talossan, Ido etc. and they all have their own flags. But there are also flags for languages that are not constructed, like the Tino Rangatiratanga flag and I'm sure that there are many more flags for people who share the same language. So, the more flags we can include in this category, the more interesting it will be to browse through it (in my humble opinion).

With your idea, Loonwatcher may want us to start a new thread.  Two questions: are you thinking of the flags themselves or the sites (buildings, objects, art, etc) that are connected with the flags? 

Second question: all national, provincial, state and municipal flags would be excluded, correct?  Of course, the language-based regional flag could still be accompanied by those other flags.

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6 minutes ago, elyob said:

With your idea, Loonwatcher may want us to start a new thread.  Two questions: are you thinking of the flags themselves or the sites (buildings, objects, art, etc) that are connected with the flags? 

Second question: all national, provincial, state and municipal flags would be excluded, correct?  Of course, the language-based regional flag could still be accompanied by those other flags.

First question: I'm thinking mainly of the flags, but they will always be connected with a building, object,... So, if for example there is a language school displaying flags of all the languages they teach in front of their building (including Esperanto) I would of course want a photo of the Esperanto flag AND the school and also some text that explains the connection.

Second question: Yes, they would.

12 minutes ago, elyob said:

Ethnic flags is the Wikipedia category name.

"Ethnic and other language related flags" would be my name for the category, because Esperanto isn't included at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_flag (which BTW also lists a coptic flag, which I would rather call a religion-related flag then).

This topic is getting more and more difficult like any discussion about new categories. :-)

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4 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

"Ethnic and other language related flags" would be my name for the category, because Esperanto isn't included at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_flag (which BTW also lists a coptic flag, which I would rather call a religion-related flag then).

This topic is getting more and more difficult like any discussion about new categories. :-)

More and more and more difficult...would the "Ethnic and other language related flags" category include flags of Indigenous peoples.  In places like Canada, First Nations (or Indigenous peoples) should be politically treated like nation-states.  Should Waymarking consider flags of First Nations as national flags or as ethnic flags?  I hope to eventually test this question in a submission to the "Flags of the World" category. 

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On 4/7/2018 at 5:54 PM, elyob said:

My point was that he's unlikely to have read the guidelines AND asked the question "If I do pursue, do I send in a proposal directly to Groundspeak?"

Just read the rest of the thread - PISA-caching has it right!!! I think this could lead somewhere. I like the idea as presented by Andreas - global, language related flags. Loonwatcher, are you interested in going this route?

Keith

Edited by BK-Hunters

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Thanks everyone.  An interesting twist to my original proposition ... which I like.  I could certainly edit the group's objective to make this more global. Will study and pursue this.

There are still two outstanding questions.

1. I did read the guidelines.  Group created ... how do I "promote" members to officer status?  I don't see the link (Promote your new Group members to the rank of Officer. Check out this link for more information on promoting Group members.) No hyperlink visible.

2. (Once you have the required number of Officers in your Group, a checklist will automatically appear on your Group page with a link to the category creation form.) Don't see this.

Who can steer me in the right direction. Is there a need to start a new thread?  How so?

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I checked out Ethnic Flags just now. It looks just fine. I can be picky when it comes to category descriptions but saw nothing of note that may need a rewrite or an edit. I'd say it's good to go as is - unless, of course, I've missed something. Believe it or not, it's happened before!!! :lol:

Keith

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Well done!

Would it be a good idea to have a variable for the type (Ethnic / Language) and another one for the name of the Language/Ethnic Group?

And another tiny suggestion regarding the naming convention: "Name of Site" might be misinterpreted with for example the name of the building (although there is a good example below). I would rather use "Name of the Flag" or something like that.

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On 4/11/2018 at 0:30 PM, elyob said:

More and more and more difficult...would the "Ethnic and other language related flags" category include flags of Indigenous peoples.  In places like Canada, First Nations (or Indigenous peoples) should be politically treated like nation-states.  Should Waymarking consider flags of First Nations as national flags or as ethnic flags?  I hope to eventually test this question in a submission to the "Flags of the World" category. 

Flags of Indigenous Peoples are already accepted into the Municipal Flags category.  I'm an officer in the the Municipal Flags category and have posted several into the same category.
My thought on this category is that these flags will be flying mainly at people's private residences, as these flags are as much a political statement as they are a heritage one.  Getting a good photo of a flag flying on a flagpole isn't that easy - trust me on this.  Also, I'm sure private individuals aren't going to be too keen to have us crazy waymarkers traipse onto their property to either get the waymark or to get the visit.  I would really give this category a serious rethink. 

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5 hours ago, iconions said:

Flags of Indigenous Peoples are already accepted into the Municipal Flags category.  I'm an officer in the the Municipal Flags category and have posted several into the same category.
My thought on this category is that these flags will be flying mainly at people's private residences, as these flags are as much a political statement as they are a heritage one.  Getting a good photo of a flag flying on a flagpole isn't that easy - trust me on this.  Also, I'm sure private individuals aren't going to be too keen to have us crazy waymarkers traipse onto their property to either get the waymark or to get the visit.  I would really give this category a serious rethink. 

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I like it. 

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That was too quick.  I am an officer in the group yet I did not have a chance to vote or to comment before peer review began.  My singular concern is that I think the category description should have included a focus on the site (as well as the flag).  At least one photograph should feature the site (in addition to the flag).  There should be reference to acceptance of many examples of each flag, unlike the Flags of Organizations category where only ONE example of any specific flag is accepted.  There should also be suggested no-go zones such as schools (for children).  

Edited by elyob

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20 hours ago, iconions said:

Here is a link of my waymark in the Municipal Flags for the flag of the Ottawa Tribe of Oklahoma.   
http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMH77K_Ottawa_Tribe_of_Oklahoma_Ottawa_University_Ottawa_Ks

My write-up has a pretty good story from the college on exactly why a flag from an Indigenous Tribe from Oklahoma flies over a small college in Kansas. 

I think that is a great waymark.

I agree with you.  In my opinion, flags of Indigenous communities should not be part of the potential category concerning ethnic flags.  The category would be for sites where flags fly representing ethnic groups or linguistic groups.  Indigenous communities are more like political entities, rather than ethnic or linguistic groups.

I disagree with you.  In my opinion, flags of Indigenous communities should not be considered Municipal Flags but rather the flags should be treated as national flags.  Indigenous communities are more like sovereign states than municipal entities.  See the Nations Within Nations Waymarking category. 

Even so, I am glad that the flag of the Ottawa Tribe of Oklahoma was accepted in the Municipal Flag category.  Otherwise, that flag would have to accompanied by four other national (or sub-national) flags before it could be considered in the Flags of the World category.

Edited by elyob

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1 hour ago, elyob said:

I think that is a great waymark.

I agree with you.  In my opinion, flags of Indigenous communities should not be part of the potential category concerning ethnic flags.  The category would be for sites where flags fly representing ethnic groups or linguistic groups.  Indigenous communities are more like political entities, rather than ethnic or linguistic groups.

I disagree with you.  In my opinion, flags of Indigenous communities should not be considered Municipal Flags but rather the flags should be treated as national flags.  Indigenous communities are more like sovereign states than municipal entities.  See the Nations Within Nations Waymarking category. 

Even so, I am glad that the flag of the Ottawa Tribe of Oklahoma was accepted in the Municipal Flag category.  Otherwise, that flag would have to accompanied by four other national (or sub-national) flags before it could be considered in the Flags of the World category.

I think that the term "Municipal" was expanded to include the flags of Indigenous Peoples.  I definitely agree that these are more like a National flag within a Nation, however, my original point stands that they are already accepted as per the description of the Municipal Flags category.   

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