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Oregon Hell Hole?


Croaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:

It was fun solving the mystery of the Hell Hole and it would be fun to have an informal geo-gathering to go check it out and maybe descend down into it, _but I really hope nobody runs down there and places a cache nearby to advertise the location to the world._


 

Just to play devil's advocate, can't anyone who can find information on a geocache just as easily look in this thread and find the coordinates now?

 

I guess I would think a cache near there might be kind of cool as long as the dangers and warnings are outlined on the cache page.

 

I doubt too many people would go anyway. I was the FTF on the Dog Mountain Trail cache about a month and a half ago and since then there has been 3 others who have found it. And there is a popular trail right to it.

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Thanks Moun10Bike, I need to start planning if I'm going to go.

 

General question to anyone familiar with the area: What is the camping situation in this area? Can you just plunk down your tent or do you need to use a specified area? Permits? Is there a stream nearby for making drinking water?


 

Ironically, I have camped within two miles of the Hell Hole three of the last four years. There is a cool campsite along the north fork where Christy Creek dumps into the river. There is a bridge which crosses the river and a road that heads up Christy creek (FS RD 1925).

 

Coords are N 43° 52.799 W 122° 23.141.

 

Just after you cross the bridge, look for a faint road to the left. Room for one or two rigs. But I can pretty much gaurantee you that there will not be a campsite anywhere along the North Fork, since this is a holiday weekend. I camped there two years ago on the Fourth of July and there was a steady stream of rigs coming down the little road to our campsite looking for a spot to camp. There is the Kiahanie Campground a few miles up the road and some other hidden campsites just of the road along the river you might try. But the North Fork is one of the main routes out of Eugene and it gets lots of holiday traffic.

 

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The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

 

[This message was edited by Navdog on July 02, 2003 at 08:10 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Bull Moose:

 

Just to play devil's advocate, can't anyone who can find information on a geocache just as easily look in this thread and find the coordinates now?

 

I guess I would think a cache near there might be kind of cool as long as the dangers and warnings are outlined on the cache page.


 

It is one thing to talk about the location of the Hell Hole on this forum or any other. But to use geocaching.com to advertise it with an actual cache when the Forest Service has a policy to not make the location public, is something else. I would hope you would see the difference. The main reason I bring this up is that National Forest lands are one of the few areas where we as cachers have open access to hiding caches with very few restrictions. Why make a bad name for ourselves by advertising the location with a cache.

 

19973_600.gif

The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

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quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:

quote:
Originally posted by Bull Moose:

 

Just to play devil's advocate, can't anyone who can find information on a geocache just as easily look in this thread and find the coordinates now?

 

I guess I would think a cache near there might be kind of cool as long as the dangers and warnings are outlined on the cache page.


 

It is one thing to talk about the location of the Hell Hole on this forum or any other. But to use geocaching.com to advertise it with an actual cache when the Forest Service has a policy to not make the location public, is something else. I would hope you would see the difference. The main reason I bring this up is that National Forest lands are one of the few areas where we as cachers have open access to hiding caches with very few restrictions. Why make a bad name for ourselves by advertising the location with a cache.

 

http://www.moondog3.com http://www.moondog3.com

That's a solid point! I agree with you totally on that. It was fun seeing this place figured out, but we need to stay on the good side with the USFS.

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quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:

 

It is one thing to talk about the location of the Hell Hole on this forum or any other. But to use geocaching.com to advertise it with an actual cache when the Forest Service has a policy to not make the location public, is something else. I would hope you would see the difference. The main reason I bring this up is that National Forest lands are one of the few areas where we as cachers have open access to hiding caches with very few restrictions. Why make a bad name for ourselves by advertising the location with a cache.

 


 

Well, I guess I only believe about 75% in what I said.

Government agencies protecting people from themselves is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. If Joe Bob can't stop himself from jumping down a giant crevice in the woods, seems to me he'll find a way to hurt himself out of the woods.

 

Yes, it may be the USFS official (sounds more unofficial to me) policy to me, but I can't imagine how that area is more dangerous than a lot of the places I've been in National Forests and National Parks. Don't go down in that hole means the same thing as don't step off that cliff to me.

 

Anyway, don't worry, I won't be putting a cache there, and it doesn't sound like any of you will either, so the point is moot. icon_smile.gif

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I may have the chance to go there early next week. What equipment would everybody recommend for a trip to the Hellhole? In the video I recall the only special equipment used was rope (which they climbed down as opposed to rappelling) and hardhats. In the newspaper article it mentions the depth at 200 feet. I don't think they entered the hole at a point where it was 200 feet deep. It seems to me that there should be a shallow point somewhere?

The article also mentions an hour climb. I could see an hour to navigate the 1/2 mile rift but an hour just to descend?

 

"Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."

-- Plato

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I wouldn't make any recommendatons as to what to use to get down in to the hole myself, as I haven't been there yet. But from viewing the video it looks like the sun was over the left side of the walls of the hole as they descended into it, which would indicate they entered on the east end. Studying the aerial imagery also shows that the narrowest/deepest part may be on the west end as indicated by a narrowing line in the trees.

 

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The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

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quote:
Originally posted by Bull Moose:

 

Government agencies protecting people from themselves is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.


 

I whole-heartedly agree with that. This is pretty much the only country in the world that seems to need to baby-sit every one of it's citizens. For example, take a trip to europe some time, and look at the canals in many of the cities. You don't seen any sort of barrier to keep you out, except maybe a chain fence. Not the cyclone kind, but the kind with posts and a chain running between them. Not even curbs on the parking spots that front up to the canals. In this country you'd have to have a wall, dozens of keep out and warning signs every 5 feet and lifeguards to watch everyone, etc.!

 

Maybe it's my upbringing, but how is anyone ever going to learn what's dangerous and what's not if they don't experience it for themselves? If they aren't smart enough to know what's dangerous (or in the case of children, their parents aren't smart enough to teach the kids) then maybe they got what they deserved. Darwinism at it's heart. This world is too crowded as it is, why do we insist on having the government try to save every single person? Maybe if some of the people were allowed to die because of their stupidity the whole species would prosper as the idiots are removed. You've heard of the Darwin Awards, right?

 

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Anyway, sorry for the now off-topic post, I didn't intend for it to go this way when I started typing, but it just started coming out.

 

(edit: kind of ironic given my signature, huh?)

 

----

Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

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quote:
Originally posted by Gloom:

This is pretty much the only country in the world that seems to need to baby-sit every one of it's citizens.


If everyone in this country wasn't looking for a lottery winning from every STUPID thing they do, the government wouldn't have to cover it's a$$.

Every slack jawed moron is looking for anything to sue about.

If I spilled coffee on my pecker I would be to embarrassed to sue McD's about it.

 

39197_3100.jpg

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

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quote:
Originally posted by leatherman:

If everyone in this country wasn't looking for a lottery winning from every _STUPID_ thing they do, the government wouldn't have to cover it's a$$.

Every slack jawed moron is looking for anything to sue about.

_If I spilled coffee on my pecker I would be to embarrassed to sue McD's about it._


 

That is also very true.

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quote:
Originally posted by leatherman:

Every slack jawed moron is looking for anything to sue about.


 

Yep. Another pet-peeve of mine. But I'll save that post for elsewhere. icon_biggrin.gif

 

----

Never let Common Sense Get in the Way of Determination.

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I read on theses forums somewhere about removing all the warning labels on items and letting nature take it's course.

 

I have begun to wonder if people living longer is really a plus.

 

Now, Back to the hell hole.

 

Did anyone make it there yet? I ran into a box of honeydo's that sidetracked me last weekend and I have to go guide an Elk Hunt this next weekend.

 

And there is a big Star Party up on Pine Mountain on July 25th if anyone wants to come on up. The party starts somewhere around 5:30 pm but who knows what time it will be over. It should be posted to COGEO anytime soooooon.

 

logscaler.

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Blatently Off-Topic:

 

Logscaler,

 

Where did you get the Kitty Cat?

 

 

This 'flying saucer' situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious. - Gen. Nathan Twining Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

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I was unable to make it to the Hellhole. My partner never contacted me and I didn't feel it was wise to tackle alone. I am pretty busy all this month so I won't be able to tackle it until the Aug-Sep timeframe if at all. It is still very near and dear to me and I will definately get there sometime.

 

"Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."

-- Plato

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Yeah, I thought for sure there would be some eager beaver down there this last weekend. I was going to try to make some copies of the OPB Field Guide video before I return it to the library. Is anyone interested in a copy or able to make additional copies?

 

19973_600.gif

The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

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Hey Sluggo, I thought that you would be stuck at "Steeply South" still.

 

I caught the kitty about 30 miles up the Clearwater from Lewiston. It was stuck alongside the highway trying to cross and as I did not want it to get smashed, I went back and caught it like a house cat. I just about did not get enough neck skin. Then we took a few photos and some tape of it in the cab with us, took it across the road and released it. If you really want a handfull of snarl, get about 4-5 pounds of cougar cub in a truck cab with you. I tried to get a moose calf later that day further upriver but Red locked me in. I did not think it would fit in the cab anyway.

 

I told Red that my next trick will be getting a Black Bear cub.

 

She got used to me bring things home after finding a couple buzztails sitting on the kitchen counter next to the fish tank full of scorpions. You ever try holding your hand next to a glass jar with a buzztail striking the inside? Aint gonna happen.

 

Now as for the Hell Hole.

Cords are locked into the gps and the location plotted on the map. Maybe next week-weekend. Depends on work. Anyone hiring?

 

logscaler.

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quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:

Yeah, I thought for sure there would be some eager beaver down there this last weekend.


 

I was almost said eager beaver, but a random fever and an even randomer unexplained electrical problem in the CRX prevented it. Both of which could have been prevented had a certain photo-taking cacher made it down there first. [props)]

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

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I was set to go, in my mind anyway. Driving home from work Thursday afternoon I began to rethink the whole plan. Driving up to Seattle on Friday I made up my mind that this was not the weekend for it. Roll-over accidents, gridlock, etc. My plan had me driving back north on Sunday and given the traffic going south on Friday I decided to put it off till another time.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

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quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:

I was going to try to make some copies of the OPB Field Guide video before I return it to the library. Is anyone interested in a copy or able to make additional copies?


 

I don't have the equipment to make copies, but I sure would appreciate a copy if you are able to get some made. If that can't be done legally, do you know of a place where I could order an original copy?

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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Jon;

 

Try this:

 

Ordering Video Tapes

To order video tapes of past OFG episodes, please call OPB's Audience Services at

(503) 293-1982 or (888) 293-1982.

 

And with further digging I came up with this:

 

"OFG episode #803 features the hell hole. You can get a copy by contacting audience services, 503-244-9900."

 

Straight from the O.P.B. Website under the Field Guide section.

 

[This message was edited by logscaler on July 10, 2003 at 09:56 AM.]

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Greebes and I have 2 words for anyone thinking about taking on the Hell Hole. DON'T GO! We left Corvallis at 6 AM. Made it up to area the Hell Hole is located in about 2 hours. Based on the what we saw on the road below the HH we decided to approach it from the north. There was logging going on to the west of the HH, not very far, you could hear the trees when they came down. We parked the truck at the closest point to the HH that we could find and set off through the brush. The brush is very thick. Salal, blackberry, and all kids of stuff so we had to weave our way through towards the HH. It was only 3/10ths of a mile. but it is very difficult to move in any sort of a straight line because of the brush. It took about 40 minutes to reach the edge. I set a waypoint there. We were standing on the edge, we couldn't see very far east or west and southern edge was not distinct. We moved to the east hoping to get a better view but it never improved. I set another waypoint here. We decided to go back to the truck and approach the HH from below as the was absolutely no way to come at it from above. We made our way back to the truck and moved down below the HH on the road. I used the GOTO function of my Garmin and set a course for the 2nd waypoint and we started up the hill. It was a very steep route. We had gone about 200 yards and had stopped to catch our breath when I noticed a deer above us about 50 feet away. Maybe it couldn't believe what it was seeing but it just stared at us. Then it turned and as it moved away it kicked loose a rock the size of a bowling ball. An omen? A warning? I don't know, but we should have taken it as one. We made it up into a boulder field, all covered with dry moss and leaves. We were now only a couple hundred feet from waypoint 2. It was obvious there was a depression running off to our left(west) as we faced the hillside but it was completely filled with brush. No way at all to get through. We tried hooking around to the right to get to the base of the wall to see if there was any sort of path or trail. Nothing there either. So we tried to go along the other side. We were able to move to the west for a couple hundred yards but were forced down the hillside by the brush and terrain so we couldn't see the edge anymore. It was at this point we decided to call off this expedition. Greebes had disturbed a hornets nest in the boulder field. I came way too close to injuring my leg when I stepped between two boulders and the solid ground turned out to be leaves and moss. Covered with cuts and scratches from the brush and under constant assault from horseflies we bailed off the hillside. We don't know if where we tried to enter was wrong or what. We are both disappointed with what we did see. We do know we won't go back. I will try and post some pictures in the next couple of days.

I will send our track and waypoints in either National Geographic *.tpo or ExpertGPS *.loc format to anyone that wants them.

Croaker

pacree@comcast.net

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this sounds awesome. I didn't know anything about hells hole untill croaker mentioned it in a log at my Elepant Rock geocache. I go to the Oakridge area often. I am diffenetly interested in helping in the search for Hells hole. I will start exploring the area one of these weekends soon. if anyone wants to join me or if anybody is planning on going for another search I'll be glad to team up.

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ROFLMAO icon_biggrin.gif I think if my name was Mike Long right about NOW I'd be dying my hair a different color, throwing some clothes in a duffle bag and haulin' a$$ for somewhere like Omaha in an unremarkable tan Chevy economy car that doesn't draw much attention. icon_eek.gif

 

someday we'll look back on all this and plow into a parked car.

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I'm in Eugene for a wedding this afternoon, and thought I might take a ride up there in my Jeep tomorrow. If anyone else in the area wants to meet up tomorrow morning, let me know. Post a reply here as I don't have access to my email.

 

makaio

 

-----

Matt

K7MTO

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I am hoping to get down there to scout it out the first part of August. I was also hoping to meet one of the moondog3 team there, but Justdog is now working seven days a week for awhile. I definitely would not recommend going there alone. I might have to look into teaming up with someone else. In the meantime, here is a topo overlay of an aerial image with a line drawn to indicate the Hellhole. My guess, from viewing the video, is that the deepest part is on the western end and the probable entry is to the east and from above. I am curious about the intermittent stream that seems to bisect the crack. Maybe it doesn't extend that far to the west, but the aerial shows a line to the west and in the video, the short shot from the airplane seemed to show the deeper part to the west. It also may be that croaker was not far enough to the west.

 

hell-hole-overlay500x500-95

 

19973_600.gif

The adventures of Navdog, Justdog, and Otterpup

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Me and Lef-t found hells hole today. I plugged in the cordinates that croaker sent me and got up to the 1926 road around noon. At this point I saw two vehicles parked there. there was about 12 people standing around wearing hardhats. At first I thought they were firefighters for the nearby forest fire. but after getting a better look I thought these must be Geocachers looking for hells hole too. We stopped and talked to them and indeed they were going to hells hole. But they weren't goecachers and wasn't even familiar with the geocaching. The Guy was a geogist from portland and was at hells hole 19 years ago with mike long. He was there today to show his family and friends hells hole. We teamed up with them. We first parked at the intersection of 636 and 637. They only had maps showing hells hole on it. I was the only one with a GPS. we searched for a couple hours around the area of croakers cordinates. No hell hole was found. We then drove back down the 1926 road about a 1/3 mile past croakers cordinates. we climbed up about 400 ft in elevation and hiked about 1/4 mile through more thick vegatation, climbed over huge downed trees and boulders. We finally got up to a cliff and followed a trail along the bottom of the cliff right into hells hole. We needed about 50ft of rope to get down the last part. After about 5 hours of searching for hells hole we were finally in Hells hole. I have cordinates for where we parked and of hells hole for those who want them I will email them. You can also see a video of hells hole on the PBS website in the American Field Guide. search for hell hole (no s in hell).

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I just got the copy of the Oregon Field Guide episode I ordered and it was the wrong one!Turns out the Hell Hole tape we want is number 802, not 803! Now wildflowers of the Coumbia River Gorge is a cool topic, but I was pretty bummed. My fault for not double checking. The folks at audience services were super nice about it though, so I should have the right tape next week I hope. Don't let this happen to you!

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It seems really sad to me that despite all the cautious talk on this thread somebody had to go and place a cache there... So much for trying not to step on the toes of the Forest Service. No offense to Grin n Bearit, but I hope it doesn't get reenabled... Here's the link:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=657a6dd6-8510-44e7-ae32-00575a564ae0

 

WARNING: I cannot be responsible for the above, as apparently my cats have learned how to type.

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frog.gif

 

I just got home.. gasping down chunk-a-nugs of ash from the two new wildfires in Central Oregon, and I read the newest logs here... I have to say... this has been a most interesting thread that I have watched with not the least bit of curiosity. I even at one point around page 2 of the forum posts.. looked around expertgps topo maps for the hellhole. Then... Navdog.. the ever diligent and prophetically talented geocacher.. figures it out. Nevermind he has the sleuthiness of a cat and the proximity to good resource material, he did the work! He found the hell hole. He made it real to all of us. He solved the puzzle. He thought it would be a bad idea to place a cache here (why else would the FS completely OMIT it from all maps other than it was VERY DANGEROUS)... okay.. so I know the FS is not a diety or anything, and as taxpayers we have the right to venture into public lands.. but as geocachers we are supposed to be a step above.. we don't want to step on the Forest Service's toes. Seriously.. great efforts were made to disguise this unique and maybe even magical spot to keep the general alien public from trying to get down there. Now we have someone (sorry theicide) who is INVITING the geocaching community to this spot. I also hope it is not unarchived. If the forest service is already trying to rectify the role of geocaches in the forests.. this just doesn't seem the way to get some of them aware of geocaching..

 

Just my opinion and that is worth exactly 1.82 cents given the anticipated Oregon income tax increase...

 

Zzzoey for Zzzoey & illDRIVEuNav

 

WARNING: I cannot be responsible for the above, as apparently my cats have learned how to type.

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Since Grin n Bearit took the time to describe his visit to the hole on this very thread but chose to omit the fact that he'd left a cache there, I have to wonder whether it can be called an honest mistake. However if Zzzoey and I are the only ones disturbed by this there's no reason to start posting archive requests when the cache is disabled due to closed roads in the area... We'll just watch and wait.

 

illDRIVE for Team Zzzoey

 

WARNING: I cannot be responsible for the above, as apparently my cats have learned how to type.

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I don't want to come down on Grin n'Bearit, but you are not the only ones troubled by the fact that a cache was placed there. I had thought that we had all pretty much agreed that we'd leave the area alone, and that this thread was just a bunch of people eager to "solve the mystery" of where the Hole is (and maybe see it in person someday). Placing a cache there will certainly not help our standing with the Forest Service should they find out about it.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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This thread has diffently blown the secret of hell hole more than any geocache would. More people are interested in visiting hell hole because of this thread than if a geocache was placed there and no mention of the hole. Most remote caches with 5 star ratings get very few if any visit's. There are only a handful of outdoor enthusiasts that are geocachers too. These are the type of people who would want to see and appreciate a cache at hell hole. It's places like this that I wish had geocaches. I think a cache can be placed at hell hole. As long as you describe the dangers and make it sound much harder than it really is to keep the inexperieced from trying. It should also be placed above the hole and not in it. Then those who just want to see the hole don't have to climb into it to get the cache. Probably the only geocacher that is going to hell hole is going because of this thread. They might as well find a cache while there and share there experience in the logbook for others to enjoy reading. I think everybody is over reacting. I've been to hell hole and it's not as dangerous as everbody is making it out to be. I've been to much more dangerous places that aren't even secrets. Not every cache is for everyone. I find lots of caches that I think are terrible and should be archived but other geocachers think are great. But I don't try to archive them. I know somebody must think it is good.

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My nickels worth is that I also have a problem with a cache there.

 

For my dollars worth, read on.

 

Like Mount10bike, I do not want to come down on Grin'n'Bearit as an overbearing cacher but...

 

Grin'n'Bearit has a "right" to place a cache anywhere at any time, so long as it fits within

the rules.

 

But, I also had thought that "we" all whom had worked on solving this had agreed to not place any caches in the area. I guess I also was applying the same assumption to those people and cachers just reading the thread out of interest.

 

Navdog did a lot, if not the lions share of the work in solving the location. By my thinking, he has established a "claim" on this location to put a cache out if he so chooses.

 

His choice was not to cache there, at least not at this time. So be it.

Now, does this leave the area open to anyone else to place a cache there? No.

 

As for the dangerous part of the cache. Everyone should know their limit and base their

movements on that knowledge. Be it this area or others.

I do not think this is the point in not caching in this area.

If my understanding is right, as mentioned in the other comments, We are not trying to tick off the USFS by bringing these areas to the front.

 

So just a few cachers will ever go there, big deal. Well, yes I think it is a big deal.

All it will take is ONE cacher NOT knowing or respecting their limit and either getting hurt or killed there and having to be rescued or recovered.

Either event will get uncontrolled media attention to the area, which the USFS is trying

to avoid.

Then the USFS to start posting grounds off limits.

And we will not know which grounds those will be until after the cache is placed, posted

to the web, removed by the USFS and either the cache returned and or a ticket issued.

I have had this very event happen once this year already.

 

And neglecting to include the fact that he installed a cache in the area also makes things

look bad. I would hope that Grin'n'Bearit will pull his cache out of respect for the intent

of this thread.

 

Or Mount10Bike needs to have the whole thread deleted from the server to “hide” the

Hell Hole once again.

 

Just my opinion.

 

logscaler.

 

"It is not fair to have a battle of wits with unarmed people."

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quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

Placing a cache there will certainly not help our standing with the Forest Service should they find out about it.


 

The above sentence says it well. The Forest Service has kept this natural wonder effectively 'hidden' for years for some reason.

 

Is it worth the risk to 'cross' the Forest Service for one cache, which could very possibly jeopardize the life of many caches already located on Forest Service 'territory?'

--laurak

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