Will This Work?

[+TwistedCube]

I have mentioned this in another thread, but how would this work?

A lamp post with a micro INSIDE the pole. I could use a strong magnet a few feet up on the outside to suspend the cache on the inside. Pull the magnet off of the pole and the container falls through the inside to the bottom. I have tested this with a bison tube and a metal chair. The bison tube stays firmly in place on the opoosite side of the magnet. However, lamp post poles are thicker than a metal fold-up chair. 

I haven't worked out all the details yet. But tge big question is "Will it work?" If so, how would it work good?

[+niraD]

19 minutes ago, TwistedCube said:

But tge big question is "Will it work?"

I imagine that the answer depends on the specifics: the thickness of the walls of your particular lamp post, the material your particular lamp post is made of, the size of your magnet, the size of the actual cache, etc.

I suggest getting permission from someone who owns a lamp post and then trying some experiments to figure out the best magnet/container configuration for that lamp post.

[+barefootjeff]

If the post is aluminium (or some other non-ferrous metal) it might work, but if it's steel probably not as the field from the magnet won't penetrate to the interior.

[+icezebra11]

I don't know, seems like it could be problematic.  Even if you can get your hand to the inside of the pole to place it, how do you get it up off the bottom in the first place and how would you expect cachers to replace it after a find?  Will the cache follow the magnet up the inside of the pole?  I'm skeptical that it would but maybe I'm wrong about that.  And if it does, will finders be smart enough to figure out how to put it back?  You can't explain that on the cache page without giving away the hide.  Even if you can get it where you want it, you may get a lot of NM logs if the finders can't replace it properly.  Or they just put it back at the bottom.

[+cerberus1]

If it's a steel pole, you'd probably have to have a really good-sized rare earth magnet to hold that other metal object inside thick steel.  A warning may have to be used (giving your hide away anyway) as a REM the size you might need may affect pacemakers and other medical devices.  Those folks are often the ones who'd go after that type hide as well. 

Aluminum isn't magnetic, so the inside "container" would have to be large enough to both hold it and your magnet at a given height, making a decent "clang" whenever you took the magnet away.  Don't think someone will notice?  I'd think the magnet for it would have to be large too, depending on the thickness. 

I don't believe the  adhesive force would be enough to draw an object up into a "pole" without errors by many (unlike simple magnetic hides in plastic pipe many have seen).  So add in the human factor,  and your clever idea may  just be sitting at the bottom when some can't get it repositioned (some can't close cache lids), or  do it quickly.

[+GeoTrekker26]

Are you suggesting placing the cache in the same tube that houses the electrical wiring?  If so, I think it would be problematic for a couple of reasons in addition to the issues cited above.

[+The A-Team]

14 hours ago, GeoTrekker26 said:

Are you suggesting placing the cache in the same tube that houses the electrical wiring?  If so, I think it would be problematic for a couple of reasons in addition to the issues cited above.

^This, this, a thousand times this!

Before you even start considering the physics, you should think about whether you'd ever be able to get permission to hide a cache inside a lamp post and the safety considerations of asking cachers to stick their hands in there. Can anyone think of a jurisdiction anywhere in the world that would happily say, "Sure, you can hide a container inside one of our lamp posts and invite random strangers to rummage around in there!"?

That being said, I've found caches that use the same principle, but have been inside plastic pipes attached to some other object. I've seen ones mounted vertically on the side of a fence post and zap-strapped horizontally on a chain-link fence. One notable example I can think of is in the vicinity of the Original Stash Plaque and is attached vertically to a tree.

[+Team Microdot]

15 hours ago, The A-Team said:

On 27/02/2018 at 5:44 AM, GeoTrekker26 said:

Are you suggesting placing the cache in the same tube that houses the electrical wiring?  If so, I think it would be problematic for a couple of reasons in addition to the issues cited above.

^This, this, a thousand times this!

I'm going to go all out and state that I have experienced such hides and find them highly irresponsible.

Even if the post in question is electrically safe there's a risk there that finders will add this to their repertoire of places to hunt and end up searching one that isn't electically safe at some point in the future - or even hide a cache of their own in a post which isn't electrically safe.

And before anyone pounces on this, waving a surely common sense applies I have two words for you - Darwin Awards 

[+hukilaulau]

even if you could do it. Even if you convinced yourself it was OK. I guarantee finders would not put it back correctly! You would have to be out there every other day moving it from the bottom, or the outside, or some entirely unrelated object back to where it was intended to be.

 

[+TwistedCube]

Putting it back isn't as hard as it would seem. I don't think you'd have to literally put your arm IN there. Besides, there are lamp posts without the cover. I could glue a long magnet on the end of the container for more surface area to avoid people sticking their hands in the pole. All they would have to do is drag the outside magnet up the pole. I don't want to cause any problems for the cacher or the lamp post itself, so even if the hide is possible I WILL take precautions. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by TwistedCube

[+TwistedCube]

On 2/27/2018 at 0:08 AM, cerberus1 said:

 

Aluminum isn't magnetic, so the inside "container" would have to be large enough to both hold it and your magnet at a given height, making a decent "clang" whenever you took the magnet away.  Don't think someone will notice?  I'd think the magnet for it would have to be large too, depending on the thickness. 

Would a magnet glued to a bison tube do? Bison tubes are pretty small, but large enough to have a magnet attached to it.

[+kunarion]

1 hour ago, TwistedCube said:

Would a magnet glued to a bison tube do? Bison tubes are pretty small, but large enough to have a magnet attached to it.

You'd need a strong magnet inside and out. The farther they are from each other the weaker the grip. The magnets may need to be a lot larger than you hoped. People can seriously pinch themselves playing with a big neodymium magnet, the kind you'll probably need.

There are a lot of factors affecting whether or not finders can consistently drag the setup back into place. Plus, dropping a neodymium magnet is bad, they're fragile. You'll just have to test all that, and prepare for frequent and frustrating cache maintenance. Enjoy!

Edited February 28, 2018 by kunarion

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, hukilaulau said:

I guarantee finders would not put it back correctly! You would have to be out there every other day moving it from the bottom, or the outside, or some entirely unrelated object back to where it was intended to be.

No neglect or malice is even needed. Someone could be searching and pull off the magnet, thinking maybe it's the container. Meanwhile, the container drops to the bottom of the pole. Later, when they search the bottom of the pole, that's where they find the container. They sign the log and replace it at the bottom of the pole, where they found it.

I've found various versions of the "cache in a tube" that used magnetism to retrieve the cache.

A horizontal tube is pretty reliable, but requires finders to use the same tool and technique to replace the cache after signing the log. A vertical tube is easy to reset (just drop the container back in the tube), but can have other problems. For example, if only one end of the container is magnetic/ferrous, then the container has to be replaced with that end up, otherwise the system is broken for the next seeker. As another example, a container that is heavier (trade items, trackables, waterlogged log sheet) or a tube that is clogged with mud/leaves/whatever can require a stronger magnet than normal.

A ferrous container can require the finder to bring a magnet, or a magnetic container can require the finder to bring something ferrous. Either way works.

[+The A-Team]

4 hours ago, TwistedCube said:

Putting it back isn't as hard as it would seem. I don't think you'd have to literally put your arm IN there.

Even if you don't need to put your arm in there, people may still put their arm in there because they don't realize they don't need to.

Quote

Besides, there are lamp posts without the cover.

While that may be true, they probably aren't meant to be without the cover. The inside of a lamp post also doesn't seem like the kind of spot that "implied permission" would apply to (ie. "I don't need to ask for permission, because it's obvious that we're allowed to be there").

Please, for the sake of those who may seek such a cache or get conditioned as per Team Microdot's post, don't hide a cache in a lamp post. I would recommend against hiding a cache even in an inactive lamp post (which I've found in the past), due to the same conditioning issue. Focus your efforts more on finding a good spot to mount a piece of pipe where you can use the same principle in a much less risky way.

[+Viajero Perdido]

In my city, some lamp posts are so rusted they're falling over by themselves.  (One recently pranged a passing car.)  Given a possible poor state of repair, how confident would you be that there's no stray voltage inside your particular pole?

I haven't posted this link for a while, but it's worth repeating:

Johnnygeo's Geocaching Electrical Safety Blog

Scroll down to the fifth picture. I dare you.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Viajero Perdido

[+colleda]

An example in a Walmart parking lot. This is one we DNF'd in 2015. It's had inumerable throwdowns. Also, most recently a string of photologs where seekers aren't game to put their hand in or can't find it anyway. CO does not seem to care about maintenance whenever it goes missing or becomes water logged.

GC485T5

[+Team Microdot]

4 hours ago, colleda said:

An example in a Walmart parking lot. This is one we DNF'd in 2015. It's had inumerable throwdowns. Also, most recently a string of photologs where seekers aren't game to put their hand in or can't find it anyway. CO does not seem to care about maintenance whenever it goes missing or becomes water logged.

GC485T5

Which screams irresponsible.

Probably wouldn't care a jot if a seeker got electrocuted.

[+The A-Team]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:13 PM, colleda said:

An example in a Walmart parking lot. This is one we DNF'd in 2015. It's had inumerable throwdowns. Also, most recently a string of photologs where seekers aren't game to put their hand in or can't find it anyway. CO does not seem to care about maintenance whenever it goes missing or becomes water logged.

GC485T5

How on earth is that cache still active? It's a vacation cache with evidence of multiple throwdowns, a hiding spot where permission was more than likely not obtained, failure to delete an extreme number of bogus logs, and a log from the CO inviting virtual logs.

[+Viajero Perdido]

That cache deserves a prize.

There should be yelling in the corridors of GCHQ.

[+Viajero Perdido]

EDIT:  Oh never mind, sorry, I've already made my point.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Viajero Perdido