Soggy Logs

[+grimpil]

I am very new to geocaching with less than 50 finds to date but what fun!  However I am curious as to whether I have just been unlucky in the caches I found so far in that so many appear to be in non-watertight containers & with soggy logs in inadequate plastic bags.  Of course the container is the choice of the CO so apart from instances where finders have not replaced the lid properly it must be down to the CO to ensure a fit for purpose container that keep out the damp.  But when it comes to the paper logs it is often nigh on impossible to sign when the paper is sodden, especially when it is tightly rolled up & unrolling threatens to destroy the record.  No doubt all is fine & dandy when the cache is first hidden - nice dry log &, no matter how small, capable of being signed with pen or pencil.

My impression is that people are not properly sealing a log back in a press seal bag, or perhaps damaging the bag when opening it & rendering it non waterproof.  Once the bag is wet inside there is no hope!  Even the additional dry piece of paper I left in one impossible to sign cache is going to quickly turn to mush.  

I found a great little cache today.  It was a small plastic tub (maybe a tablet container with screw lid) & instead of a plastic bag inside containing the log, the log was rolled up in a further smaller tub with a snap on lid.  Russian Doll effect & the log was bone dry!  So simple & so effective.  Certainly if the day comes when I want to hide a cache myself I will take this idea on board.

Of course here in UK it is very difficult to avoid anything getting damp thanks to our climate.  So it will be interesting to see what I find in a couple of months time when I hope to be geocaching in Greece where hopefully it is generally drier!

[+TriciaG]

Yep.

It is usually the result of poor containers (usually pill bottles and such found around the house, and aren't watertight) and cache owners who place-it-and-forget-it. Contributing factors are (1) logs that are way too long - the cache owner expects to not have to maintain the cache until the log is filled up, if even then. In the meantime, it turns to mush due to other factors; (2) plastic bags that are too big for the container, so that when it's repeatedly taken out and put back in, it rubs and gets holes, or it gets holes due to repeated folding/pinching; (3) cachers that may be in a hurry and don't properly seal the bag; (4) environment - if it's humid or rainy or snowy, moisture will get into the bag and/or container. Then, if it's watertight, it stays in there.  

 

[+GeoElmo6000]

It's a common issue.  The good news is there is less chance for a paper cut.  Those hurt!

I had an underwater cache once that I knew was going to get water inside, as the water displacing the air actually helped keep it underwater.  I used write-in-the-rain paper inside a decent attempt at water protection, and included a couple pencils in the cache, as pencils worked better than pen with this type of paper and expected dampness.

The best news is that you want to hide a cache that you'd otherwise be happy to find, which includes a dry log.  Kudos to you.

[+hzoi]

3 hours ago, grimpil said:

Once the bag is wet inside there is no hope!  Even the additional dry piece of paper I left in one impossible to sign cache is going to quickly turn to mush.

I've given up on adding dry paper to wet caches for this reason.  If I have paper on me, I'll add it to a dry cache if the log is full or missing, but it's an exercise in futility otherwise.

3 hours ago, grimpil said:

Russian Doll effect

This can help.  For smaller caches, I've started putting the log inside a PET preform tube.  I still use notepads for larger caches, so I try to use press seal bags.  (But it doesn't help when people put the pen inside the bag, inevitably poking a hole.)

3 hours ago, grimpil said:

it will be interesting to see what I find in a couple of months time when I hope to be geocaching in Greece where hopefully it is generally drier!

The bad news is, wet logs happen, even in Mediterranean climes or the desert.  The good news is, the logs dry faster. 

[+grimpil]

An underwater cache! LOL!  That would be fun to search for as long as I don't have to swim!  Hmm!  Waterproof paper is feasible so there is another idea to squirrel away for the future.

I took up geocaching partly to learn to use my gps so am not particularly interested in the contents of a cache beyond the log.  Finding so many soggy ones is frustrating & surely they cannot be very satisfying for the CO.

Have already seen a couple of bags punctured by pencils.

Edited February 23, 2018 by grimpil
Response to new post

[+cerberus1]

I think a lot of COs have received a "Boy, it's POURING out here !  Glad I had my raingear on!" log, leaving a string of soaked logs and containers along the way. They took great care on them, but no consideration for anybody else.

 - But average days,  if you need a plastic bag to somehow keep the log from turning into a piece of moldy carp, the container is the problem.

We used to put umbrellas (bought in bulk) in ammo cans.  Not many ammo cans around anymore, but folks never used them anyway...  In the odd chance of that nice day becoming wet weather, we always have an umbrella with us and use it.  Simple.

[+J Grouchy]

No Ziploc-style bag will last.  The moment the seal is bent, it's compromised.  The seams along the edges wear out and break.  They get punctured.  Debris gets inside the seal and prevents it from fully engaging.  No...baggies are never to be RELIED upon for keeping logs dry.  It's like the difference between water-resistant and waterproof...one can be quickly dipped or splashed, the other can be fully submerged for an extended period.  There are no waterproof baggies (at least, the kind one buys in bulk at a supermarket).

[+cerberus1]

We have open, heavy freezer bags in our few ammo cans hides left, meant just to separate log/trackables from swag.  Every time we do maintenance we find the bags sealed.  In ammo cans.  One only had a marble and a sticker left in the swag bag  (was filled last maintenance...), yet that bag was sealed.

One, a large, rural mailbox with two regular size Lock n Locks inside it, we always find the freezer bags sealed.   How many have soaked mail?   Our remaining roadside micro (matchstick holder with RiR paper) always has a folded baggie inside when I stop over.  We never put one in it.  Maybe folks thinking it helps...

[+L0ne.R]

1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

The best news is that you want to hide a cache that you'd otherwise be happy to find, which includes a dry log.  Kudos to you.

I agree.

[+niraD]

20 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Maybe folks thinking it helps...

When I started geocaching, the conventional wisdom was that zip-top bags helped, so I bought an assortment of sizes from a craft store and used them in my caches. I had a bunch left over, so I left them in other caches.

Now I use them for organizing the bits for my board games. I stopped putting them in geocaches.

[+Aer72]

I am pleasured to have cachers who find my caches replac the logs.

[+K13]

I'm embarrassed when someone else maintains one of my geocaches. 

[+grimpil]

13 minutes ago, K13 said:

I'm embarrassed when someone else maintains one of my geocaches. 

So would I be!  As a newbie here I am still learning my way around etiquette & whilst yes it is nice to think someone may kindly sort out what is essentially the COs responsibility as a gesture I don't get the overall impression it is best practice.  Like leaving your kids in the playground & hoping someone else will push the swing!

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, aer72 said:

I am pleasured to have cachers who find my caches replac the logs.

1 hour ago, K13 said:

I'm embarrassed when someone else maintains one of my geocaches. 

I'm sometimes ticked-off that someone felt a need to "maintain" one of our caches.

We respond to logs, not waiting for another action log to head out to fix (if needed...).  Someone can't find it, leaves a film can supposedly "fixing" a 30cal ammo can still there, that's not maintenance.  Someone leaves a ripped off piece of a car repair receipt to supposedly "fix" our still-blank-on-the-other-side Rite in Rain log book, that's not maintenance.  I'd rather have a NM for nada (a two-week cacher left one for no pen...) and fix it myself, thanks.

 

[+hzoi]

On 3/2/2018 at 7:00 AM, aer72 said:

I am pleasured to have cachers who find my caches replac the logs.

Ew.  I can understand maybe being pleased, but...

On 3/2/2018 at 10:09 AM, K13 said:

I'm embarrassed when someone else maintains one of my geocaches. 

I agree.  When we started out, I was attached to my hides and wanted to keep them going, even after we left the area, so we set up maintenance plans for most of our hides.  After a while, though, I felt uncomfortable at the burden I'd imposed.  These days, when we move, we pick up all our physical hides and archive them.  And, of course, until such point, we do all the needed maintenance ourselves, as long as we get a heads up about it.

Every once in a while, we'll get a log that someone replaced a log sheet or something without first getting a heads up that it needed maintenance.  Since we normally leave a big enough log book that it wouldn't fill up without our knowing, typically the need to replace is driven my the log getting wet.  Well, if the log's getting wet, I need to do maintenance anyway, so just replacing it isn't so helpful.

[+WarNinjas]

I had one bad experience replacing a log for a CO. I still don't understand his reaction as I don't know him in person but have found many of his cache and talked with him about glue he had used for one of his hides at one time.

  Here is the situation. I find a cache far from my home of his. It is also out from his usual area.  It has a gum wrapper as a log with a few signatures on it.  I read back and someone had found the cool container open and empty.  The cacher had left the gum wrapper as the log.  My daughter and I decided to take it back to the car and added a nice official log in a nice fitting zip lock bag and also added in a handful of nice swagg so it would be cool again. After our vacation I was looking threw my finds and see it is disabled. He said he would check on it. I understand this but I left it probably better then it was originally hidden,  100% then just having the gum wrapper.

  I posted a note that we had fixed it up with a good log and some cool swagg so there was no need to disable it,  He should go check it out when he has a chance but as a cacher with a couple of hundred caches out (and many favorites) that this one is in good shape to be found. He responded that it is a CO's responsibility to maintain there caches and not ours and it would stay disabled until he could check on it. Kind of made me feel bad that we took the time to fix it up especially using some of our good swagg and short vacation time.

I still feel a bit awkward finding his caches now. I definitely don't fix them up in any way. I can only hope that when he did go check it that he was at least a little impressed on the nice log and swagg we left. It was found a few times between when it was disabled and he checked it so hopefully the good swag wasn't taken.

[+CAVinoGal]

10 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

I had one bad experience replacing a log for a CO. I still don't understand his reaction ... After our vacation I was looking threw my finds and see it is disabled. He said he would check on it. I understand this but I left it probably better then it was originally hidden,  100% then just having the gum wrapper.

  I posted a note that we had fixed it up with a good log and some cool swagg so there was no need to disable it, ... He responded that it is a CO's responsibility to maintain there caches and not ours and it would stay disabled until he could check on it. Kind of made me feel bad that we took the time to fix it up especially using some of our good swagg and short vacation time...

While the CO is right in that it is his responsibility to maintain his caches, it seems that disabling it till he could personally check it was a bit ... extreme.  Especially given that the gum wrapper had a "few signatures on it", implying it had been in that state for some amount of time with no CO intervention.  Was there mention in the online logs of the gum wrapper replacement log in the cache?  I'm guessing not; the CO would likely have taken the step to disable and fix it himself had he known, it sounds like.

You do what seems right to you in each case - we try to leave a cache in better condition that we found it if possible. Do a bit of CITO in the area, add or replace a logsheet, baggie, swag - dry out a container - swap a container if we have an equivalent and the one we find is broken, etc....  In no case do we do "throwdowns" (to me that means adding a container at GZ if we didn't find one to begin with) - we log our DNF and move on.

We've seen our share of "soggy logs" (getting back to the original topic of this thread!) and putting a baggie on a soggy log is only going to result in a moldy, mildewed, soggy log!  If it's still writeable, we'll dry the container as best we can, sign it, and leave it with no baggie.  We do carry a supply of varied size baggies to replace torn and worn ones where there is a dry log inside.  I was amazed at the number of dry logsheets in containers we found in Oregon recently - no baggies, containers buried in snow, and contents dry, clean, and in excellent shape.  Contrast that with the typical container here at home, waterlogged, soggy logsheets in baggies... maybe we can change that by emulating the hides we saw and using a better containers!!!

[TheMagnetAngler]

I am going to start putting my log inside a zip lock, then putting that in another zip lock, then putting that inside a small container of its own WITHIN the cache

[+K13]

As one of the forum oldtimers said here long ago, If you need a baggie to keep the log dry, you should invest in a better cache container.

[+grimpil]

Yesterday I encountered a series of caches where the logs varied from bone dry to one with a solid wodge of wet paper at the bottom of a waterlogged tube.  Someone had kindly put a small sheet of dry paper in a baggie so there were a few legible names now being added.  But I also came across three or four that had used waterproof paper, & so even the one that was rolled up in a damp bag was fine to use.  Seems to be the answer.

But the main issue does seem to be non-watertight caches - the majority of the 48 I have found to date had let in excess moisture & many bags were wet on the inside.  I decided to carry a piece of j-cloth with me to mop up some of the water or blot the log before signing.  Works a treat as a stop gap remedy.  Not my responsibility to care for the COs babies but perhaps a bit of community spirit should be extended & appreciated.

[+Team Microdot]

On 3/6/2018 at 10:43 PM, TheMagnetAngler said:

I am going to start putting my log inside a zip lock, then putting that in another zip lock, then putting that inside a small container of its own WITHIN the cache

Double container strategy works well in my experience - something I'm going to start doing increasingly myself.

[+L0ne.R]

FYI, a film canister, placed in another leaky jar doesn't work. The jar gets wet, the water wicks into the film canister and gets the log wet. I've seen at least 2 examples. One example the outer jar was bone dry and oddly the logscroll in the film canister was damp and moldy.

[+cerberus1]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 5:43 PM, TheMagnetAngler said:

I am going to start putting my log inside a zip lock, then putting that in another zip lock, then putting that inside a small container of its own WITHIN the cache

I remembered you said "What about putting a regular sized cache (plastic lock style) inside of a large cache" in another thread, and most replies were  a "cache within a cache" is a good idea for some containers.  But on your idea of multiple baggies  -not so much.  Please come back in a few months to let folks know how that worked out with finders replacing all that.     Thanks.     

[+colleda]

10 hours ago, Team Microdot said:

Double container strategy works well in my experience - something I'm going to start doing increasingly myself.

I put log books in zip bags even in ammo cans. It protects then from dirt, rough handling, damage from contents/swag and rainy day cachers