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Can CO have too many caches?


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We had record flooding in northern Indiana 2 weeks ago. I forgot I had 2 caches near the river which crested 17 feet above normal. Trying to do the right thing I immediately went to check them. My multi-cache was dry inside but the outside lock was ruined. It's going back out this week. The other one is still under 4 feet of water. I suppose I could change it from difficulty 1 to difficulty 5, needs special equipment like scuba gear :) 

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51 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

It seems I have a bad day every time I post logs accordingly here locally. I posted NM on one cache with no finds in four years, which most likely was one of those little nano tubes pushed into the ground, the result was the owner posted: Archived!. Another listing with DNF's piling up over two years I posted NM, the result was the CO posted armchair maintenance that they would check it. These are experienced geocachers that own 300 + listings.

Many of the logs on some of the hiking caches which are micros in the woods have those canned copy/paste logs from group cachers that replace the missing ones along the trail as needed.

Another geocachers listing I flagged responded by archiving the caches and posted that they are physically unable to maintain their caches.

Wow. I'm 3 states north of you and in another country, but within the past 12 months, I've experienced all of the above.

I am fortunate, our reviewers don't make me feel like I'm doing wrong by posting NMs and NAs.

These last couple of years have been good, with quick responses to NAs for caches with ongoing broken container issues. But it hasn't stopped irresponsible geocacher behavior.  PT style behavior is on the rise--set-em-and-forget-em, throwdowns, and amassing 100s of hides is the dominant culture.

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3 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

It seems I have a bad day every time I post logs accordingly here locally.

Maybe it's not what you're saying, but how you say it.

Are you trying to be helpful and toning your logs that way?  Are you coming across as the local cache cop, wondering out loud why the reviewer isn't keeping up faster with your logs?  Something in between?

If your technique is to call people out in public and demand action on their caches, then that's not going to help anything, other than to inspire people to roll their eyes every time they see a log with your name on it.

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22 minutes ago, hzoi said:

Maybe it's not what you're saying, but how you say it.

Are you trying to be helpful and toning your logs that way?  Are you coming across as the local cache cop, wondering out loud why the reviewer isn't keeping up faster with your logs?  Something in between?

If your technique is to call people out in public and demand action on their caches, then that's not going to help anything, other than to inspire people to roll their eyes every time they see a log with your name on it.

 

I keep it simple and to the point. Not many ways to sugar coat a DNF, but needs cache owners or needs reviewers attention is my normal NM or NA log, if you consider that calling out another geocacher then I'm guilty. 

I actually try not to upset other geocachers, but even posting corrected coordinates and pictures (non spoiler) of the logs I sign has upset some. But I see your point, once you have made one cacher angry by playing the game then the rest of their friends take the side against you so dare not attend events because you are not welcome in their group of friends. 

And yes, posting logs accordingly got me on the short list. No reason to lie about it. Most of the locals, like this topic, own too many caches that they won't maintain unless someone like me comes along and a reviewer gets involved. So that makes me a bad geocacher?

 

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34 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

So that makes me a bad geocacher?

I don't believe I said anything about good or bad geocacher.  I haven't looked for your logs, so I'm not going off anything specific.  But if you write them with the same...what's a good word for it?  Candor, I suppose...that I've seen on some of your posts in the forum, then others may see you as less helping, more sniping.

I don't normally pull punches with inactive COs; I'll post NA and call them out as absentees.  But if a CO is active, there's the option of first contacting them offline vice leaving an NM or NA log.  I don't always use it, but it can come in handy.  If they don't respond, I then can in good conscience post an NM or NA log, including the information that I tried contacting the CO offline about it but got no response.  It tends to strip away the huffy defense of "Well, you could have just told me about it," if I can demonstrate that I tried and they ignored it.

That's not in the rules, that's not even the way I expect others to do it.  Just my occasional technique, for consideration.

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12 minutes ago, hzoi said:

Candor, I suppose...that I've seen on some of your posts in the forum, then others may see you as less helping, more sniping.

Possibly, but an abandoned broken cache is still an abandoned broken cache. Hopefully, reviewers don't decide on archival based on whether they approve of the tone of the NA log.

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50 minutes ago, hzoi said:

I don't believe I said anything about good or bad geocacher.  I haven't looked for your logs, so I'm not going off anything specific.  But if you write them with the same...what's a good word for it?  Candor, I suppose...that I've seen on some of your posts in the forum, then others may see you as less helping, more sniping.

I don't normally pull punches with inactive COs; I'll post NA and call them out as absentees.  But if a CO is active, there's the option of first contacting them offline vice leaving an NM or NA log.  I don't always use it, but it can come in handy.  If they don't respond, I then can in good conscience post an NM or NA log, including the information that I tried contacting the CO offline about it but got no response.  It tends to strip away the huffy defense of "Well, you could have just told me about it," if I can demonstrate that I tried and they ignored it.

That's not in the rules, that's not even the way I expect others to do it.  Just my occasional technique, for consideration.

 

And if I play different than you, then I'm doing it wrong? I just use the cache page and play the game accordingly. 

But I do admit, from what I see you post here in the forums, I too have formed an opinion of you that has nothing to do with your style of geocaching. 

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34 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

And if I play different than you, then I'm doing it wrong?

Yes - you're doing it wrong, you need to mollycoddle these people for fear of ruffling their delicate sensibilities.

You could soften the blow even more by first asking them if it's OK to ask them about their geocache, just in case they happen to be supremely sensitive.

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28 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

Yes - you're doing it wrong, you need to mollycoddle these people for fear of ruffling their delicate sensibilities.

You could soften the blow even more by first asking them if it's OK to ask them about their geocache, just in case they happen to be supremely sensitive.

 

I could not agree with with you more. But if you were to ask anyone that has ever contacted me asking for help, they would tell you that I was one of the best cache owners that would go out of my way to help you. Here in the forums, I'm abrasive like a possum. :)

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29 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

Yep - all I've done is converse with you via the Internet from thousands of miles away and you've still rubbed all my skin off - I'm red-raw here! :lol:

 

If it makes you feel better, I do have most of the other regulars here on my ignore list. :D I'm sure the waymarkers are glad to be rid of me telling them the flaws I see in their game, but that's just because I no longer care about Waymarking. B)

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15 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

If it makes you feel better, I do have most of the other regulars here on my ignore list. :D I'm sure the waymarkers are glad to be rid of me telling them the flaws I see in their game, but that's just because I no longer care about Waymarking. B)

Cool B)

I guess I can cross you off the suspect list as a source of the numerous complaints I was told had been made when I enquired as to why I'd been given a timeout a few months back :wub:

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42 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

I guess I can cross you off the suspect list as a source of the numerous complaints I was told had been made when I enquired as to why I'd been given a timeout a few months back :wub:

Truthfully, one of the few times I complained about a post resulted in me getting a time out. You can't even report in private here without fear. :mad:

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2 hours ago, Manville Possum said:
2 hours ago, hzoi said:

That's not in the rules, that's not even the way I expect others to do it.  Just my occasional technique, for consideration.

And if I play different than you, then I'm doing it wrong?

Yes, that's why I put the last line in there, which clearly says you're wrong. 

Except, it doesn't, because I thought that might be your reaction and I felt I needed to specify that this is just the way I sometimes approach the issue, not the way I expect all others to handle it all the time.

2 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

I too have formed an opinion of you that has nothing to do with your style of geocaching.

I'm sure many folks have.  I'm not perfect, and I freely admit I've been less than helpful at times.  When I've owed apologies, I've tried to make good.  To borrow the infamous Groundspeak line about challenges, all I can do is try to "make better mistakes tomorrow."

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Regarding posting NMs and NAs I pretty much see it like you MP. It could be a regional thing but here I have never come across the angst you've endured of COs with their noses out of joint. Here, COs either fix their cache or it goes ignored and gets archived, mostly by a reviewer. Maybe we're a bit more laid back in OZ and that could be cultural.

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35 minutes ago, colleda said:

 Here, COs either fix their cache or it goes ignored and gets archived, mostly by a reviewer. 

 

I recall when I started this game 10 years ago we had reviewers that would do a clean up of listings with DNF's, but now it's common to see found the location but not the cache, or log was wet so we replaced it. Not much a reviewer can do when people quit logging DNF and such to alert them. 

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18 minutes ago, mraudrey said:

I think the answer is yes. But there is not a set number of caches that are too many. For some COs one might be too many. If they aren't maintaining their hides then they probably have too many. 

The problem is... the first few years, the CO do good, but after that, things get on the back burner. You never know whats going on in CO life down the road. So I always say... one cache be too much for every CO. Its all depend on whats going on in their life. The rule is the rule and I am glad that GS isnt flexible anymore.

Edited by SwineFlew
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"Here in the forums, I'm abrasive like a possum." Oh my god, I laughed so hard. I don't think I'll ever forget that. I hate possums. They ARE abrasive! :lol:

I was just thinking of posting a question about NM logs so this is interesting. I DO leave NMs because it's supposed to be a way for a CO to get a heads up that something is wrong and they need to check on it. Even owners that do maintenance checks can not know something has happened. So I see it as a helpful thing. And if a cache isn't maintained, then its SUPPOSED to be archived. I was just looking at a cache listing out in the woods that had FIVE NMs posted and countless logs stating the container (a plastic bucket) had disintegrated, the log baggie was split open. Cache dated to 2006, CO hasn't logged in since 2015. And the cache is still active...:huh: Saw another with a string of 9 DNFs...no owner maintenance or NM.  

So...why do people make comments about cache condition in their logs and not post a NM? Fear of offending the CO? Or don't know about or understand the feature and what the purpose is? 

I posted a NM once and the owner left a huffy page note about being tired of being told to check on her cache..."This isn't fun any more!" (placed in a flood plain and trash dump with rusted tin cans and broken beer bottles) so she archived it. Got the impression her comment was throwing shade at me because I put a NM. 

I do see owners with a high number of cache hides that do not maintain their caches but I know that doesn't apply to all. Personally its hard for me to understand how someone can maintain hundreds of caches. But I'm not SuperCacher (obviously)!

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5 hours ago, PlantAKiss said:

So...why do people make comments about cache condition in their logs and not post a NM? Fear of offending the CO?

I think that's quite often the case. Some CO's respond quite aggressively to such news.

5 hours ago, PlantAKiss said:

I posted a NM once and the owner left a huffy page note about being tired of being told to check on her cache..."This isn't fun any more!" (placed in a flood plain and trash dump with rusted tin cans and broken beer bottles) so she archived it. Got the impression her comment was throwing shade at me because I put a NM. 

I do see owners with a high number of cache hides that do not maintain their caches but I know that doesn't apply to all.

This is a regular thing in my area.

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8 hours ago, PlantAKiss said:

So...why do people make comments about cache condition in their logs and not post a NM? Fear of offending the CO? Or don't know about or understand the feature and what the purpose is? 

I know personally if a log is moist, especially if it's summer, a situation like that will prompt me to describe it in the log, but not post a NM. The log may well have dried by the time the CO comes out. I personally use the NM more for essential maintenance that only the CO can do, or for significant conditions that may dramatically affect followup finders' experiences. It it's not as significant, in my experience people tend to read a log or two back if there's any issue, so could read my lighter concern or disclaimer and be informed. If I didn't find/sign the cache, that would either also be a note or dnf.   That's my personal etiquette, and in my area that seems to be relatively close to the norm, and it seems to be working pretty well for us :)

I haven't seen too many COs get angry about NM on their caches around here (which is key), though I do see a number of caches unfound for some time with a couple of DNFs and very few attempts.  On occasion I might be tempted to go and check such a cache out, and possible add a NM if unfound, if only to get the CO attention, or to nudge it along to eventual 'reviewer attention'.

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12 hours ago, PlantAKiss said:

I do see owners with a high number of cache hides that do not maintain their caches but I know that doesn't apply to all. Personally its hard for me to understand how someone can maintain hundreds of caches.

2

It's not possible. They don't. I have yet to see it. They may be fine the first year when they're keen and freshly addicted. But then it gets out of control. They may be conscientious enough to disable their cache, but that often goes on for months without any action. Then the reviewer note comes. They promise to get right to it. They might, usually replacing a sub-standard container with another substandard cache and the cycle begins again. But more often they either archive or let the reviewer archive or hope for a throwdown and re-enable the cache.

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To many caches.  I have hit my limit.  Now how about some tools for helping an CO take care of caches.  I like DNFs lets me know there is a problem better yet when you tell me more.

I'm starting to post real spoiler photos, Cache in place photos. The Photos help people know they are in the right place and what the cache looks like.  However, it back fired when a cache has been logged FOUND, because they found the spot and not the cache??  is this OK, I play to sign the log not just find the spot.  They did not throw down a cache, which is good.  I have a new container in place. I hope they will stop back by and sign the log.

I'm sure if I had fewer caches I would do better keeping up with them.  Is there a app for owners? how long has it been since a cache has been found, show DNFs on a map, etc.

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17 minutes ago, pscwmoms said:

Is there a app for owners? how long has it been since a cache has been found, show DNFs on a map, etc.

ooh, shiny...

In the meantime, you can use Search, caches owned by pscwmoms - you can rank on date last found, you can map, you ask for only Disabled.

In a Pocket Query, you could ask for caches  "I own"  that have the Needs Maintenance attribute. You can map those results as well.

And there's my owned that Need maintenance (not as useful as it could be, since it includes unpublished).

But a cache owners app, that's brilliant...

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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3 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

 

ooh, shiny...

In the meantime, you can use Search, caches owned by pscwmoms - you can rank on date last found, you can map, you ask for only Disabled.

In a Pocket Query, you could ask for caches  "I own"  that have the Needs Maintenance attribute. You can map those results as well.

And there's my owned that Need maintenance (not as useful as it could be, since it includes unpublished).

But a cache owners app, that's brilliant...

Sounds like a waste of time, effort and money to me.

If you need a dedicated app to manage the simple task of cache maintenance you already have too many caches.

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Some of us live in Rural areas and there are not enough people hiding.  So when I stated the game I knew I would be a hider.  I sell preforms on ebay to support my hiding caches.  I'm not beyond turning off a cache and picking it up. In fact I have turned some of mine off so others could use the space to hid new caches in.  I have improved several to be more water proof and up graded some to Ammo cans.

So an app to help me will help my area and me keep up with my caches. 

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5 hours ago, pscwmoms said:

Now how about some tools for helping an CO take care of caches.

I am using this tool https://www.geocaching.com/hide/cachemaintenance.aspx

For example I opened the tool today and selected one cache to fix and it is on-line now. It worked like a charm. The only problem is that when I want to add a cache to this tool, I have to use a sock puppet.

Edited by arisoft
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6 minutes ago, pscwmoms said:

Some of us live in Rural areas and there are not enough people hiding.  So when I stated the game I knew I would be a hider.  I sell preforms on ebay to support my hiding caches.  I'm not beyond turning off a cache and picking it up. In fact I have turned some of mine off so others could use the space to hid new caches in.  I have improved several to be more water proof and up graded some to Ammo cans.

So an app to help me will help my area and me keep up with my caches. 

I still fail to see how.

What information will this app provide that isn't already available to you?

5 hours ago, pscwmoms said:

I'm sure if I had fewer caches I would do better keeping up with them.

Looks like you already have a solution.

 

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Glad to be useful.  I own a lot of caches myself.  I generally keep track of them on my home computer, using GSAK (Geocaching Swiss Army Knife). There's both cost and a learning curve to acquiring and using this software, but if you're a prolific hider, looking to keep good track of what's up, I recommend it. You can download all your owned caches by Pocket Query (this will automatically exclude archived), and then keep downloading logs - GSAK is an API partner, and can just grab  the logs directly from the site.  You can set up a view with an icon that indicates last 4 log types. 4 green boxes = 4 finds, 4 red boxes = 4 DNFs or NM. 

I thinned down on my ownership, as a large hurricane damaged  many of my caches all over the state on the same day. Even with the full time ability to maintain, I realized that over 15 years of hiding, I was too spread out.

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That sounds good just seeing the DNF and the NM would be a big help.  I also take care of Geoart I planned it and my local club set out the caches at the set locations. That's an additional 69 caches I watch.  The club is about gone but we do the twice a year CITO for the area.

I have to try to rad on the GSAK I have had people talk about the program before.  Thank you for the suggestion.

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