THPRD Guy

2.8k · July 1, 2002

I just saw a log from Gloom mentioning a THPRD Natural Resources Technician leaving his business card in caches he's found.

One of my caches had about 1/2 dozen cards and I've seen cards in at least one other cache. Both were in THPRD parks.

I hope this is a good sign and not a bad sign

Especially since the recent happenings in the Nature Park where 3 caches were pulled due to one being accessed in a way that left too much of a trace

Maybe I should give him a call I've got his number after all.

July 2, 2002

Um, i'm about to sound dumb.

Wouldn't it be nice if i gave that little throat-clearing preamble every time?

Anyway, what's a THPRD?

July 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by oregone:
Um, i'm about to sound dumb. Anyway, what's a THPRD?

Hahahahhhaaaha. Eastsiders.

That would be Tualatin Hills Park & Recreation District.

July 2, 2002

They also visited my cache on the 29th. He signed the log book and left a card.

July 2, 2002

I would be interested to know why this guy is leaving his card in caches.

July 2, 2002

Hopefully this is part of THPRD looking into Geocaching and seeing that it's a good thing.

-fractal

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

N 45° 30.ish

W 122° 58.ish

July 2, 2002

You know, I never looked in my Silicon Forest cache logbook/container when I retrieved it from the park office. They may have signed/left a card in it as well as they did say they enjoyed hunting the cache in order to pull it. The ranger I spoke with and the person who actually did the hunt/find/pull were both women, but there were a couple of male rangers/employees present as well.

-

July 2, 2002

I was out testing my new GPS V and trying to learn how to use it and I ran into him and chatted briefly. He said this was his 11th cache for the day and he was checking to make sure they were not messing up park areas and that they safe. Seemed like a nice guy gave me his card and said I would likely see them in more caches and mentioned some I had read about and plan to visit. Said I would really enjoy them.

2.8k · July 2, 2002

He's getting PAID to geocache!

Where do I apply?

July 2, 2002

Anyone else notice the medalion hunt on the THPRD web site?

-fractal

[This message was edited by fractal on July 02, 2002 at 05:48 PM.]

July 2, 2002

CLUE 1:

Go to this park for the symbol for Portland..we have a garden of them, too!

1st line, 7th letter from left, and

2nd line, 8th letter from left

CLUE 2:

Go to this estate to get married!

5th line, 16th letter from left

Well, lets see, anyone know of a park in The District with a rose garden?

I can only guess that the second park has to be The Jenkins Estate.

2.8k · July 2, 2002

There are two that could fit the bill.

Garden Home Rec center (just by the name, not sure about roses). But then there is:

Waterhouse Park & Rose Garden

W of SW 158th Avenue

S of NW Foxborough Circle

NW Blueridge Drive

July 2, 2002

Turns out there were 2 THPRD cards in the SF cache along with a log entry stating it would be removed. The log entry seems to agree with the conversation we had that they would like to work toward allowing geocaches provided they have some control over where they are placed. Seems like a fair solution...

Are they only hunting/logging caches found within the parks they maintain or are they simply enjoying the sport like the rest of us?

-

July 2, 2002

This is a really great oppertunity.If the cache owners who got a card and note actualy work with the agency to better place the caches and if the agency is cool with the idea....heck that will show other agencies geocaching is not the tool of the devil or some such rot.

It cant hurt to reach out and meet this card placing guy half way.

-tom

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

July 3, 2002

I just received a nice mail from THPRD Guy about my Creekside Cache. He looked for it, but was probably the first to find that it's been plundered. Lost a full camera too They were concerned that the cache was too close to a steep bank and in an area frequented by homeless folks, so if it was still there he wanted to assist me in finding a better place for it. In short, here's a quote from his mail that sums it up, "I would like to continue to work with you and other Geocachers to continue this fun activity in District parks. We feel it is a wonderful opportunity for people to 'discover' parks which may otherwise go unnoticed." Sounds good to me!

2.8k · July 3, 2002

In response to my email I got the following reply.

He has since recsinded his request to have one of my caches archived - I updated the page to address the wetland damage concern. We had a great 30 minute phone conversation this morning. I am sure that the other cache owners have or soon will recieve email from Kyle. You'll see that he is a strong supporter, and very reasonable. With his permission I am including his email with all contact information. He has intentionally only ever used his real name in the logbooks.

Oh, and he did all his geocaching on his own time, but with a professional interest (the thought of getting paid to geocache was too good to be true).

Here is his email (some of the points are direct responses to questions I posed):

----------------------------------------------

Good morning,

The Nature Park is the only park in the Tualatin Hill Park and

Recreation District (THPRD) where off-trail use by visitors is not

allowed, due to the sensitive nature of the natural areas throughout

the

park. All other natural areas in the District, ranging from low- to

high-sensitivity, are open to the public. We hope that these areas are

used and appreciated by people with the idea that they are special by

their virtue of existing in a highly urbanized metropolitan area.

After

the recent off-trail use at the Nature Park there was concern that

natural areas may be adversely impacted due to foot traffic by

cache-seekers. We were also concerned about any safety hazards that

may

be encountered, such as steep and/or unstable stream banks, poison-oak,

stinging nettles, bee/wasp nests, etc.

Last Saturday I visited 14 cache sites and located 9 in parks

throughout the District (I had visited A Fish out of Water:GC5C31 a

couple weeks earlier). One of the caches I sought in order to verify

it

had been archived (Hawaiian Treasure Trove:GC35CD). Three others I was

unable to locate in the time I allotted myself (one hour per site) and

the last unlocated cache, Elegia:GC68AC, I haven't taken the time to

decode the downloaded file yet. I must admit I was sorry to see two

caches had been plundered (Middle of the Road:GC688B and Stormtrooper:

Revenge of the Clone:GC3441). While my initial involvement was

professional, I ended up having a lot of fun and got a lot of exercise

locating all the caches.

I only found two locations where impacts to natural areas were obvious

or concerned us: By the boardwalk:GC31F6 and Hart of the Woods:GC50FF.

I was unable to locate the cache at the first site, but an obvious

trail

of trampled vegetation led off the boardwalk through the wetland area

just north of the boardwalk. At the second site the cache was located

inside a hollow log which could only be accessed by walking though and

standing in the stream. In both cases the impacts seemed to be

minimal,

yet continued use of the areas has the potential to alter the natural

environment. In the case of Hart of the Woods there is the added

safety

concern due to hazardous footing on the slippery and uneven stream

bottom. A third cache, F.F.T.E:GC2E88, can be accessed either from the

trail next to the stream or from trails that enter from the top of the

bank to the south. The trail next to the stream is technically across

a

wetland, but the trail was little-used at the time I visited the site

and trampled vegetation didn't seem to be a problem.

With these three exceptions, I found little to concern us about impacts

to the natural areas by cache seekers. On the contrary, I discovered

the caches were cleverly hidden in areas of low sensitivity and in

almost all cases were located next to existing trails. Note that

although I was unable to locate some caches I did make site visits to

the cache locations and found little or no adverse impacts at those

locations as well.

Three caches concerned us for safety reasons: Hart of the Woods (for

reasons mentioned above), By The boardwalk, and Creekside:GC48B5. By

The boardwalk is located immediately next to Willow Creek and the

stream

bank is steep and hidden in the vegetation. We are concerned that

someone may fall into the stream and hurt themselves on submerged sharp

objects. Creekside poses the same hazard, but the bank is even higher

at this location. Furthermore, Greenway Park is frequented by homeless

people and these people may pose a danger to a cache seeker who

surprises them near their sleeping areas in the woods. When I visited

the Creekside cache site I found a very recently-used blanket about 15

feet from the cache location, likely by a homeless person sleeping in

the bushes. District staff strives to remove any encampments we find,

often involving the Beaverton Police when the homeless people may still

be present in the encampments. However, many of the natural areas are

not monitored for such activity on a regular basis.

One of the most interesting caches I sought involved going to four

parks to get clues to each subsequent park (4Parks:GC45B5). This took

me to a couple parks that are not well known and have their own special

charm. Our only concern is the placement of one of the metal tags on

play equipment at Center Street Park. The protruding screw heads

fastening the plate to the structure pose a safety hazard and can void

our warranty on the equipment. I will be removing the plate this

morning and contacting both Geocaching.com and TheLoneStranger to alert

them to this action.

THPRD welcomes geocaching activity in our parks and we wish to work

with you and other cachers to continue to make this a fun experience

that takes people to our parks and natural areas. However, due to the

safety hazards I have mentioned here, I will recommend that 4Parks, By

the boardwalk, Creekside, and Hart of the Woods be archived until

alternate locations can be worked out with you and other cachers. We

will be monitoring new and existing caches to ensure that geocaching

activity doesn't pose a safety or environmental risk. Please call or

email me and we can discuss alternate locations for your cache in the

same or in nearby parks.

Thank you again for the wonderful tour of our District. I had a lot of

fun and hope that others enjoy themselves in the numerous parks visited

during their geocaching treasure hunts.

Kyle Spinks

Natural Resources Technician

Tualatin Hills Park and Recreation District

15707 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, Oregon 97006

503-645-3539 x528

fax 503-614-9514

kspinks@thprd.com

July 3, 2002

Yup, that's him of course. I didn't want to list his name or contact details because I hadn't received permission to do so. I thought the tone of the mail was nothing but positive and professional, and wanted to relay that on.

July 3, 2002

quote:
I didn't want to list his name or contact details because I hadn't received permission to do so

Ditto - that's why I blurred them out (above). While I haven't spoken to him directly (unless he was one of those present when I spoke with the female ranger), I plan to. Rather than lots of seperate phone and email conversations, I think it would be beneficial to schedule a time when we can meet as a group at one of THPRD sites such as the THNP office.

Input?

-

2.8k · July 3, 2002

I think if anyone who's caches are of concern should feel free to call him. He certainly needs no persuasion that geocaching is a good thing. He loves it! Both for himself and for the community of geocachers discovering the parks - especially the little-known parks.

That said, I also think he'd gladly meet with anyone interested. I'd be happy to be part of said group

July 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by makaio:

...Rather than lots of seperate phone and email conversations, I think it would be beneficial to schedule a time when we can meet as a group at one of THPRD sites such as the THNP office...

-

That sounds like a great idea. Anytime in the evening is good for me.

-fractal

July 3, 2002

I sent him an email to see if he'd be interested in doing this. I also gave him a pointer to this thread and asked him to join the conversation if he'd like as his input would certainly be valuable.

-

July 3, 2002

I think it is great that he is in support of geocaching, and from what I can tell the tualatin nature hills parks and trails stretch all over the west side area, so we need his support for them.

Now I take exception to his request that hart of the woods be archived. I had absolutely no problem getting that cache and did not have to stand in the woods.

Someone must explain to him how the terrain and difficulty ratings work and that if you have to lean over the creek to get to the cache or whatever other hazards, then it will be reflected in the difficulty rating.

I have no intention of standing in a creek to get a cache. I had my fill of getting all messed up on caches from the Open Wide Jebediah cache.

2.8k · July 3, 2002

I also found Hart of the Woods from the side not requiring a creek crossing. As it turns out though, quite a few have indeed crossed that creek.

And the major trails in the park are on the side of the creek that would lead you to crossing the creek at the cache site (according to Kyle).

I beleive that with some additional information on the cache page regarding how to avoid crossing the creek, the cache could be kept (which is exactly what happened with my Boardwalk cache). No doubt Shinwa has received some email and is aware of the concerns directly.

July 3, 2002

Regarding Hart of the Woods, it's true you can (could?) reach the cache without actually standing *in* the creek, but I'd venture to say most cachers probably did walk in the stream bed to reach it, albeit on the rocks to avoid etting wet.

Similarly, he mentions the By the Boardwalk cache showing a clear path leading toward the cache from the boardwalk. As that caches first finder, I'd venture to say many subsequent finders took the same route as did I, which involves taking a wider circular approach to the cache which involves NO trekking amidst the wetland area. It was obvious when I hunted it that one should not step off the boardwalk into the wetland area, but I've no doubt that's exactly what many hunters have done, hence the apparent path. This cache, btw, appears not to be on THPRD property, but on school property (which may have it's own consequences).

Many(most?) of us have learned the hard way that a direct line to the cache isn't always the best path, and most of us have modified our search techniques to avoid the hazards to our bodies and to the area by following the GPS pointer. I never move in on a cache location anymore without investigating alternate possibilites. And darn near every time there turns out to be a less/non-intrusive way to the cache than my first approach seemed to reveal. Sound familiar?

I think caches like these need to note in nice bold text (as By the Boardwalk now does) that no offtrail bushwhacking is necessary to prevent folks from doing so and creating these new paths. Cachers also need to not be so hasty in zeroing in on a cache and investigate alternate routes prior to stepping into potentially sensitive areas.

-

[This message was edited by makaio on July 04, 2002 at 12:07 AM.]

July 4, 2002

THPRD--and geocaching--is lucky to have a guy like Kyle. As an eastsider, i'm a little jealous because i can think of a couple caches over here that could use a professional opinion.

One question, though:

quote:
Originally posted by pdxmarathonman (or Kyle):

Furthermore, Greenway Park is frequented by homeless

people and these people may pose a danger to a cache seeker who

surprises them near their sleeping areas in the woods. When I visited

the Creekside cache site I found a very recently-used blanket about 15

feet from the cache location, likely by a homeless person sleeping in

the bushes. District staff strives to remove any encampments we find,

often involving the Beaverton Police when the homeless people may still

be present in the encampments.

What happens when we geocachers find homeless camps? I'm not always comfortable with clearing them out myself (although i have before). Also, the recent budget cuts of the park system (here in Portland-proper, anyway) probably prevents park officials from running out and taking care of these in a timely manner.

The only solution i can think of off the top of my head is to remove one every wednesday night either before or after the festivities. You know, get the golden spike crew after it. I don't know. What do you think?

Anyway, happy fourth of july everyone. It's truly the American way to celebrate our nation's independence on the day we DECLARED it instead of the day we finished fighting for it.

July 4, 2002

I would never remove a homeless camp.

What happens if the people come back?

I have ran into two homeless camps before.

One was a alternate way to JoeDons cache down at the Sandy River.

People were there, luckily I had my dog and a friend with me.

The other was with Kinoly on our aborted attempt at NW Version of Deliverance over at Vancouver Lake.

I guess I should have emailed the owners regarding these, but it never crossed my mind until now.

July 8, 2002

The guys name doesn't sound like the same one, but a worker for "THPRD" has recently found the 'Where the Sidewalk Ends' cache in Deerfield Park. There was no note saying it needed to be removed, just signed his name and date with a THPRD next to it. This is a park that has yet to be developed, so maybe they don't mind the cache being there.

I am the Rabbit King, I can do anything

July 9, 2002

Following is Kyle's response to my email about having an informal meeting of geocachers and THPRD personnel (likely just himself). Anyone have preferences on which day or what time? I can make it pretty much anytime but I know some of you have odd schedules and I'd like to make sure everyone who wants to attend can.

btw, Camille Park is here

Hi Matt,

How 'bout this Thursday or Friday evening at Camille Park? We can meet at the picnic tables just north of the parking area at the end of

Marjorie Street (sorry, but I don't' have the Lat/Lon handy at this time :-D ). I'm also available all day Saturday and M-Th evenings next

week.

Kyle

-

July 9, 2002

I'm busy this Thursday evening, but any other evening should be fine.. As long as it's after 7pm-ish.

-fractal

July 10, 2002

Hi y'all!

I finally got a chance this morning to post a comment here before heading out into the sun for the day. I am glad I've gotten to talk with a few of you recently and hope to continue dialog on Geocaching in THPRD parks. Since I'm pressed for time this AM, I'll keep it short for now.

A couple of you had comments on what to do about homeless encampments and homeless people you come across while looking for caches. I was a ranger at the Nature Park and we always called in the Beaverton Police when going in to homeless encampments. The problem is the uncertainty of what might be found inside tents etc. and the unpredictability of the homeless people themselves. 99% of all people I encountered were just down-on-their-luck and we had no problems at all...but it's the 1% that might be a problem that is a concern. I recommend calling the District (me or administration, for example) and the Beaverton Police (non-emergency). Furthermore, you should not confront a homeless person if you can avoid it. I would hate to hear of a good situation (Geocaching) going bad because of such an encounter.

I had a lot of fun seeking all the caches recently. I'd like to meet with any and all of you if you have the time to talk about your experiences and I will continue to pass on the positive experiences we've had while caching.

I'll keep in touch via the forum. My job is not to seek Geocaches (doh!) but I have been monitoring them online for the District (their time) and finding them in the field (my time).

(...and this was short!?!?!?)

Kyle Spink

July 10, 2002

The weekend is better, but I will try to show up if a time can be scheduled.

quote:
Originally posted by makaio:
Following is Kyle's response to my email about having an informal meeting of geocachers and THPRD personnel (likely just himself). Anyone have preferences on which day or what time? I can make it pretty much anytime but I know some of you have odd schedules and I'd like to make sure everyone who wants to attend can.

btw, Camille Park is http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=marjorie+street&city=Beaverton&state=OR&csz=Beaverton,OR&zip=&country=us&slt=45.486839&sln=-122.802971&mlt=45.465524&mln=-122.783182&mag=9&cs=8&name=&desc=&ds=n&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=

Hi Matt,

How 'bout this Thursday or Friday evening at Camille Park? We can meet at the picnic tables just north of the parking area at the end of

Marjorie Street (sorry, but I don't' have the Lat/Lon handy at this time :-D ). I'm also available all day Saturday and M-Th evenings next

week.

Kyle

-

July 11, 2002

I've posted a poll for which night works best for everyone.

I also suggested in the Wednesday Night Ghost Fright thread the possibilty of meeting Kyle prior to next Wednesdays get together.

Whichever works best for the most is OK by me.

-

July 17, 2002

The results of the poll favor the weekend, but not many have responded. I thought there was a suggestion to do it tonight, but maybe I'm dreaming . . .

July 17, 2002

I'd suggested a pre Wed night gathering meeting with Kyle, but nobody seemed to respond (favorably or not). It's probably too short notice to schedule it now, so I'm going to ask Kyle if a Saturday meeting is OK. If so, I'll post a new thread with time/place (likely at Camille Park as he previously suggested).

-

THPRD Guy

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