Jump to content

How much help can I give.


Gill & Tony

Recommended Posts

I am one of the most recent finders of a puzzle cache and I have had two people contact me asking for a hint.  Now, I know that I'm not allowed to hand out the answer, but how much, if any, help am I allowed to give?  I have been replying with the following, which seems reasonable, but I don't want to go too far.  I have deliberately omitted the key phrase from this quote, but I do include something from the puzzle page, in plain sight and obvious if you know what you are looking for.

Quote

You might want to start by googling the phrase "<insert clue from puzzle here>" and scrolling down the list of search results to see if anything looks like it might help.

If there is something, click on the link and read about it.  Then you might want to go to geocachingtoolbox.com and have a read of their home page and see if anything strikes you as being useful.

 

So, is this OK or not?

Cheers

Tony

Link to comment

My first thought would be to ask the cacher whether they've tried asking the CO for hints or not.  If it's a CO that you know is forthcoming with hints, then encouraging the cacher to contact the CO first would be my first instinct. If you've already given a vague hint and the cacher comes back asking for more help, then that would be a good time to suggest they contact the CO - maybe saying something like "I'm not comfortable giving out additional hints without first reaching out to the CO. Have you asked the CO for hints? They might have more helpful hints than I can provide. I wouldn't want to ruin the whole puzzle for you."

If the CO is of the non-responsive sort, and even if they are responsive, then it's really up to what you feel comfortable with and your level of acquaintance with the cacher and/or CO. It's perfectly fine for cachers to work together to solve puzzles, although if one cacher has already solved it then it's not so much "working together" as "one helping another".

Not sure that really helps answer your question or not. Sorry.

Link to comment

There is no official "allowed" and "not allowed."  There is your own personal ethic. Giving away the answer is (appropriately) frowned upon, but there is no law about it.

I solved a cache the other day where I decoded a phone number to which I was supposed to text a message to have the coordinates returned.  I texted the correct message and received no response.  I emailed the CO.  After a week went by without a response, I reached out to a previous finder, who gave me the response text.  In that case, the previous finder's response was completely appropriate, in my eyes, because the puzzle didn't work any more and the CO was unresponsive.

In your situation, I would ask if they had contacted the CO.  If the CO was unresponsive, then I would probably provide an oblique hint; otherwise I would leave hinting to the CO.

 If the CO remained unresponsive, I would provide additional hints but not the solution.

Link to comment

I've been in the same predicament many times. People asking me for hints and sometimes even the final coordinates. I'll admit that i did use to give out hints in the first year or two of my caching career. I then realize that this wasn't the right thing to do since it's another person's cache. Since then, i don't give out anything unless i know the CO doesn't mind. I'll tell the person asking to try contacting the CO if i don't know. It's amazing the strange, sometimes irksome, looks i've gotten from some people when i told them it wasn't my place to give out a hint..

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
14 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

I've been in the same predicament many times. People asking me for hints and sometimes even the final coordinates. I'll admit that i did use to give out hints in the first year or two of my caching career. I then realize that this wasn't the right thing to do since it's another person's cache. Since then, i don't give out anything unless i know the CO doesn't mind. I'll tell the person asking to try contacting the CO if i don't know. It's amazing the strange, sometimes irksome, looks i've gotten from some people when i told them it wasn't my place to give out a hint..

Yep.  Used to be I'd give a helpful hint, but more than that direct them to the CO.  The other 2.3rds was a bit more "helpful".

There's a couple here who believe PAF is part of the caching process, and if you're not "helpful",  you're part of the problem in the hobby.  Even had one bad-mouth me openly at an event once because I wouldn't just tell him where a cache not mine was.  Sheesh...

As one who had others give people I don't know my personal cell # for "help" ("no name" and I don't answer...) , I no longer give folks even hints on caches not mine anymore.

Link to comment
On 2/9/2018 at 7:30 PM, fizzymagic said:

I solved a cache the other day where I decoded a phone number to which I was supposed to text a message to have the coordinates returned.  I texted the correct message and received no response.  I emailed the CO.  After a week went by without a response, I reached out to a previous finder, who gave me the response text.  In that case, the previous finder's response was completely appropriate, in my eyes, because the puzzle didn't work any more and the CO was unresponsive.

That would instantly get a 'Needs Maintenance' log from me. I can't even get a new puzzle published because of a similar technical glitch that seems to only affect AOL email addresses (seriously...who still has an aol.com address in 2018?!?!?).  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
On 10/02/2018 at 4:05 PM, cerberus1 said:

There's a couple here who believe PAF is part of the caching process, and if you're not "helpful",  you're part of the problem in the hobby.  Even had one bad-mouth me openly at an event once because I wouldn't just tell him where a cache not mine was.  Sheesh...

I don't give out hints on anyone else's puzzles - I don't see what would give me the right to do so.

If the CO wants to give out hints on their own puzzle - fine. If the CO doesn't want to give out hints on their own puzzle - fine.

What makes me laugh is that the sort of person described above by cerberus1 would probably advocate the it's only a game and everyone plays their own way attitude to geocaching - but then become irate and aggressive when I want to play the game my way i.e. by not giving out hints.

Reminds me of a quote I read the other day. Can't remember it word-for-word so I'll have to paraphrase:

Believers in free speech often think it means they can say whatever they like - until someone says something which disagrees with them and then it's an outrage.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

For puzzles by other COs, I don't give hints to "people", but I do sometimes give hints to friends. I don't see that as being much different than working with a friend to solve a puzzle.

I give hints to anyone for my own puzzles, but normally that's not much more than pointing out the hints already built into the description.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, dprovan said:

For puzzles by other COs, I don't give hints to "people", but I do sometimes give hints to friends. I don't see that as being much different than working with a friend to solve a puzzle.

I do.  When working with someone else to solve a puzzle, neither of you have previously solved the puzzle.   Getting a hint from another geocacher or friend is different because they know the solution.  

Link to comment
6 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:
7 hours ago, dprovan said:

For puzzles by other COs, I don't give hints to "people", but I do sometimes give hints to friends. I don't see that as being much different than working with a friend to solve a puzzle.

I do.  When working with someone else to solve a puzzle, neither of you have previously solved the puzzle.   Getting a hint from another geocacher or friend is different because they know the solution.  

I understand your logic, but the fact is when I'm solving a puzzle with a friend over e-mail, invariably one or the other of us makes the big break through and gets the answer alone, so we're faced with exactly the same problem: I have the answer, he doesn't, so I give it to him (usually by hinting him over the last hurtle). So I can't really see how it's different if I solved it 10 minutes before I started giving him hints or 10 months before I started giving him hints.

Link to comment
On 2/12/2018 at 9:36 AM, J Grouchy said:

That would instantly get a 'Needs Maintenance' log from me. I can't even get a new puzzle published because of a similar technical glitch that seems to only affect AOL email addresses (seriously...who still has an aol.com address in 2018?!?!?).  

Just now read your question,,,, I do! I signed up with AOL in 1996 and have had the same primary email address since. :cool:

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

I own a few dozen puzzle caches and have lost count of the number of "got a hint for this puzzle at a recent cachers' meeting" - it doesn't bother me over much. Similarly if OS Junior (separate account) comes caching with me, he logs finds on puzzles I solved. No big deal. There are one or 2 COs who are prickly about solutions being given away, mind you.

Link to comment

I enjoy solving puzzles; wish I had more time to devote to them!  If I don't "get it" - I'll keep at it until I have a breakthrough.  I've been offered hints and refused - I want to get it on my own.  Sometimes 2 or 3 minds looking at things from different perspectives is what it takes to make a breathrough, though, so discussion and group solving works for me at times.

On the other hand, there are a couple of series nearby (geoart in one case, a themed series in another case) where it's gathering info from a wiki article and plugging the #'s into ther formula.  Hubby and I will each take a few and work them, then share results, and go on a hike to find them together.  We both log the find on our own account.  I have no qualms about him logging puzzles I've solved and we have found the final together, or that he has solved and we have both been together for the find.  

Straight out giving away answers is not right - I may help you solve it, nudge you in the right direction, maybe.  But just give away the final coordinates?  Nope.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...