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Log challenge-caches after signing


hegenor

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I usually only sign the logs of challenge-caches that I'm qualified for. I was just in New Zealand, that's as far away from home as I can come, so I signed a few challenge-caches that I qualify for soon. What do I do when I have qualified, do I log it online as found the day I signed the cache, or the day I qualified? I would think it is the day I qualified, but I don't want to ruin my statistics getting extra km's saying I found a cache in NZ the same day as Norway. So I would prefer to change the write note into a found it, without changing the date. Is that ok?

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11 hours ago, hegenor said:

I usually only sign the logs of challenge-caches that I'm qualified for. I was just in New Zealand, that's as far away from home as I can come, so I signed a few challenge-caches that I qualify for soon. What do I do when I have qualified, do I log it online as found the day I signed the cache, or the day I qualified? I would think it is the day I qualified, but I don't want to ruin my statistics getting extra km's saying I found a cache in NZ the same day as Norway. So I would prefer to change the write note into a found it, without changing the date. Is that ok?

Lets suppose that the challenge was archived after you have found the cache and signed the logbook. In this case you may prefer to log at the correct date - right?

In the case that the cache is not archived yet, your reason to use wrong date is just to keep your statistics counterfeit - displaying something which is not true - right?

There is a solution. You can lock your milestone statistics to show the same milestone despite of inserted or deleted finds.

 

Edited by arisoft
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11 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Most we know who hunt challenges use a Write Note at the time of signing it, then change it to a Found it when they qualify.  They leave the original date, but mention the date they finally qualified for it in their log.  :)

As far as I know this is also the way how HQ guides to do. Maybe there is some helpdesk article about this matter. Who would find it?

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Looking at some of the challenges around here, the practice seems to be to post a note on the day you signed the log and then a found log on the day you completed the qualification. To me that makes sense, as a "find" on a challenge cache requires both a signature in the log and a qualification achieved,  so it should be logged on the date both of those become true.

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As noted in the Help Center article about Challenge Cache Guidelines, the Found It should be after the log is signed and qualifications have been completed.

Quote

Cachers may sign a challenge cache's physical log at any time. However, the challenge cache may be logged as found online only after the log is signed and the challenge tasks have been met and documented.

 

 

There have been other threads on this topic:

 

Some options include:

  • Some cachers won't search for a challenge cache unless they are already qualified (no WN, just Found It on the date that they found the cache).
  • Some cachers will log a WN on the date they found the cache, then add a Found It on the later date that they met the final qualifying criteria, even if they submit the log on a later date.
  • Some cachers will log a WN on the date they found the cache, then add a Found It on whatever day they submit the log after qualifying, even if they met the final criteria on a date between their WN and FI logs. My preference, as I try to check my qualifications once per quarter, of if I happen to pass by the challenge cache location, to try to minimize skewing my mileage.
  • Some cachers will log a WN on the date they found the cache, then log the Found It logs for dates that help them fill their calendars.
  • Some cachers change their WN logs to FI logs, while some add a FI log in addition to their pre-existing WN log.
     
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 My preference as CO is that you log a Write Note (or nothing online is okay, but tough for bookkeeping) and a NEW  Found it! when you qualify. I don't feel strongly about the log date, I understand how it can skew things, as you say, "found a cache in NZ the same day as Norway". 

If you change a Write Note to Found it! there's no notification. 

One of my challenges recently checked, 5 "finders" had never signed - original ammo can, original log - 4 of the 5 had posted a Write Note log listing qualifications, or making some statement of intent about the cache. Later (as much as 3 years later), they edited Write Note to Found It.

 

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Another benefit of the new Found It log on the date you qualify is that it records the date you qualified. You could change the old Note to a Found, but then you have to deal with Find order, milestones, noting the qualification date in the log (if you care about verification), etc. I prefer the Found-on-qualification-date.

Also keep that in mind when viewing a challenge cache too; the last 20 finds may not be physical finds. If the last search attempt was a DNF you wouldn't know unless you checked back through the logs; so if I want to know the state of a challenge's physical container, I know I've got to scan back through log contents for the last visit attempt.  I'm fine with that, it only happens occasionally.

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You make a good case for logging the find dated when you were in New Zealand. Normally I always log when I qualify, but that's when the challenge cache is essentially local.

This is a reason I almost never sign the log before I qualify, and it's probably also a reason you don't normally sign first, either. I have to admit, if I were in your position, I'd probably decide not to log the finds at all. Yes, I know, I can imagine the feeling of being so close to scoring those challenges that you can taste it, but I don't think I'd be able to resign myself to logging a cache when the find log would either have the wrong date I finally completed the challenge or be wrong about where I was when I completed it.

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2 hours ago, dprovan said:

I don't think I'd be able to resign myself to logging a cache when the find log would either have the wrong date I finally completed the challenge or be wrong about where I was when I completed it.

That's the caveat to the ALR.

Dare I say... there is a suggested feature that resolves this dilemma. =P

 

eta: that's also why I stopped putting any weight on the cache-to-cache distance metric (by Find log). I use personal TBs for traveling distances now, since they can 'visit' when you post a note. My finds are now effectively just a record of the dates I complete all necessary to log a find (whether it's a trad, virtual, EC, challenge,...)

Edited by thebruce0
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11 minutes ago, niraD said:

But if you're going to do that, then I don't see the point of having the challenge associated with a cache in the first place. Why not just publish cacheless challenges, which are logged when the requirements are completed?

That's discussed in the relevant thread ;)

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12 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Dare I say... there is a suggested feature that resolves this dilemma. =P

True. Separating the challenge completion log from the cache found log eliminates the conflict.

But if you're going to do that, then I don't see the point of having the challenge associated with a cache in the first place. Why not just publish cacheless challenges, which are logged when the requirements are completed?

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Whichever way you do it, your stats will be messed.

If you log the find on the day you qualified, then mileage stats will be incorrect.

If you convert the write note to a find, the order of finds, and possible milestones wil be wrong.

The crucial thing for me is thinking about other seekers.  Assume you physically find the cache a few months before qualifying and then the cache goes missing - a few DNFs follow.  If you log your find when you qualify it looks like the cache is back in action, when it isn't.   That is why I would convert the write note to a find.  It is the lesser of two evils as far as my stats go and also reflects the fact that the cache was available on that date.

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15 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

The crucial thing for me is thinking about other seekers.  Assume you physically find the cache a few months before qualifying and then the cache goes missing - a few DNFs follow.  If you log your find when you qualify it looks like the cache is back in action, when it isn't.   That is why I would convert the write note to a find.  It is the lesser of two evils as far as my stats go and also reflects the fact that the cache was available on that date.

I wouldn't convert or edit the log because the system won't send the update to the CO (or to anyone else who is watching the cache).

But I don't pre-sign challenge caches that I don't qualify for, so I don't have to deal with the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma.

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23 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

The crucial thing for me is thinking about other seekers.  Assume you physically find the cache a few months before qualifying and then the cache goes missing - a few DNFs follow.  If you log your find when you qualify it looks like the cache is back in action, when it isn't.   That is why I would convert the write note to a find.  It is the lesser of two evils as far as my stats go and also reflects the fact that the cache was available on that date.

That why when I'm finding a challenge cache I look back over the logs for the last actual visit. I can't assume that everyone logs them the same way, so. *shrug*

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