Pay and pay again

[+EraSeek]

I've got my Stewardship permit. I've got my National Forest Annual Pass. Covered, right? Went up to Little Lake Kacheess and drove up to the campground booth. 'Four bucks please.' -'you see, I've got all my passes right here.' -'don't matter still need four bucks' -'Isn't this a national forest campground?' -Yeah, but...Thousand Trails administers it for the Forest Service..your pass is no good here...four bucks' -'The forest being run for the Forest Service by Thousand Trails..strange relationship!'

 

[+slinger91]

tax, and four bucks please. sounds about right.

[+Renegade Knight]

What a frigging rip off. Did they tell you your pass wasn't good at specific forest service sites? How would they word that. "Your pass is good at all forest service locations except the forest service locations that don't actually use forest service personell, but do contain forest service facilities that you would have the right to use should an actuall forest service person be on duty at the moment you try to get in".

 

This weekend I was truly impressed by the quantity of fee's that I could pay. My caching took me to 3 campgrounds, 2 trail heads and 2 wilderness areas. All with permits and fees.

[+EraSeek]

Yup! That about sums it up.

[+oregone]

Yeah, until they come up with a standardized pass that encompasses everything--from crater lake national park to the trailhead at eagle creek to sauvie island wildlife refuge to anything else--my philosophy is to just not pay at all.

 

So far, i've only been burned once on this. I ended up having to pay the sweet home district court $92 because i didn't buy a snow park permit last November. But i figure i've saved at least twice as much by not getting nickel and dimed (er, $3ed and $25ed) every time i try to leave the city.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[+Seth!]

I'm sure that there is not a simple solution. But not hiding geocaches in fee areas would be a good start! A big part of the problem, of course, is that so many citizens don't want to be taxpayers. They expect everything to be for free. But if we don't have to pay taxes, then erverything will have a user fee. That would really be a drag. We need to start voting for lawmakers who are wise enough to say, "yes, folks, you're going to be taxed" and smart enough to spend the money well. Personally, I don't like permits and fees. I'd rather have it all covered by my tax dollars. On the other hand, sometimes it is nice to know where the money goes. Again, no simple solutions.

 

(I have a VC in an NPS-operated location and it costs $7 per carload. I figure I've paid more for less. It's cheaper than taking the family to a non-government operated movie.)

 

- Seth!

[+Mr. Snazz]

Eh. I was going to rant, but instead I've deleted my rantings and replaced them with:

 

Yeah, what Seth! said.

 

 

[+Mr. Snazz]

Eh. I was going to rant, but instead I've deleted my rantings and replaced them with:

 

Yeah, what Seth! said.

 

 

[bellemanda]

What about Tourists Seth!?

 

I think we should have a standerdized pass that preempts local fees. But those pesky tourists (as i am one now in montana) should be nickled and dimed. I don't think taxes should or could pay for their use.

 

I have heard the new director of parks is trying to start a standerdized fee for all parks across oregon.

 

~~

I'm not great enough to be modest.

[+EraSeek]

I don't have a problem with paying with any of the methods ...but I do have a problem with paying 3 times for the same thing. I am taxed. I did pay for a use permit. I did pay an enterance fee. If I paid the enterance fee, why did I buy the permit? If I bought a permit, why am I paying taxes for the same thing? If I paid my taxes, why did I pay the enterance fee and buy a permit. Seems to me like you should be able to execute prisioners only once.

 

[+Mr. Snazz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EraSeek:

I don't have a problem with paying with any of the methods ...but I do have a problem with paying 3 times for the same thing. I am taxed. I did pay for a use permit.

---

 

If your permit does cover the campground, you may be able to get a refund. If your permit doesn't, then you aren't really paying multiple times. Well, no more than twice anyway. Twice is Nice, right? That's a neat slogan.

 

But seriously - did the permit you purchased say that it was good at all natl forest campgrounds, or was there a little star excluding privatly maintained grounds? I feel intense anger coming on if it was supposed to cover all of them Bad government! Bad! Bad!

 

[+Mr. Snazz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EraSeek:

I don't have a problem with paying with any of the methods ...but I do have a problem with paying 3 times for the same thing. I am taxed. I did pay for a use permit.

---

 

If your permit does cover the campground, you may be able to get a refund. If your permit doesn't, then you aren't really paying multiple times. Well, no more than twice anyway. Twice is Nice, right? That's a neat slogan.

 

But seriously - did the permit you purchased say that it was good at all natl forest campgrounds, or was there a little star excluding privatly maintained grounds? I feel intense anger coming on if it was supposed to cover all of them Bad government! Bad! Bad!

 

[+EraSeek]

It does state something on the back about not applying to consessionare campgrounds and a couple other things, so I guess they covered their backside in small print.

 

[+Boojum]

I think this is a direct result of trying to privatize the running of government facilities. I just hope that they don't "Disneyland" our national parks.

I would rather see all of these ran by the forest service, by trained personnel, and have higher use fees (for yearly passes too) and not have privatization or logging to pay for the services.

[+Renegade Knight]

One thing I have to wonder about. Most of these facilities were paid for by our Tax dollars. Not our fees. Do we get a refund?

 

Shoshone Park in Twin Falls used to have a plackard (sp?) that said. "Dedicated to the free public use forever" or something very close. It was removed when the park became a Fee area.

 

Now if Fee's reduced the Tax Burden maybe I'd buy into them. But really. The only thing that ever lowered my tax bill was being unemployed.

[Macduff]

The USFS and BLM are funded with our tax dollars. Since the "Fee Demo Program" has been in effect, the amount of money allocated to each National Forest has been reduced in proportion to the amount of money collected by the "Program". Politicians beholden to special interests seem to be creating a "funding crisis" that only "privatization" can solve. This appears to be about allowing corporations (concessionaires)to profit from our common heritage at the expense of the public. I personally think it is ridiculous to fund the USFS with my tax dollars, and than have to "pay to play" every time I want to hike on a "public" trail. The "Fee Demo Program" has not yet been implemented here in Montana becase people here are so poor that they would raise a huge stink about it. Even a $35 annual permit could discourage lower income folks from enjoying what rightfully belongs to all.

 

I do, however, agree with the Sno-pass program, and fees at National Parks. As far as paying to camp, I try to avoid that if at all possible (although I would be willing to pay *something* if facilities are provided....paying $8 - $12 for a tent site just doesn't cut it.)

 

There are many interesting links available on the subject.

[+misguided one]

Lake Kachess is a Nat'l Forest campground, which doesn't fall under the NPS parks pass. Since it is not a trail head it also doesn't fall under the forest pass that that I purchased for hiking.

 

To add aggrivation, Lake Kachess doesn't even accept Thousand Trails memberships for entry. I guess there are just going to be some places that we'll have to pay extra fees, until the bureaucrats figure out a "better" way to foul things up.

 

 

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Lost? I'm not lost. At least I don't think I'm lost, well............OK, maybe just a little.