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Michaelfiles

Belgium Historical Markers

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Hi
I created a new group in order to maybe create a new category
Why : Because there is no such thing in Belgium but our neighboring countries have each their correspondents
Holland : Rijksmonumenten - Dutch National Monuments
Germany : Deutsche Denkmallisten - German Monument Registers
France : Monuments Historiques Français
So I'm looking for members, Everyone is welcome;) but you can easily understand that the officers are possible Belgians if possible:P
Hoping to have some from each community for easy discussionsB)
What do you think about this ?
Group : Belgium Historical Markers
 

belgium-Patrimoine.jpg

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25 minutes ago, vulture1957 said:

if there are no historical markers in Belgium, I can't see needing or wanting a category for them. it would be a blank category.

There is historical monuments in Belgium, a lot of, but no category, he just want to have a category as neighbours countries, and as Australian, a recent category.

But the best is to provide website link of Belgium historical monuments to understand better

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4 hours ago, Alfouine said:

There is historical monuments in Belgium, a lot of, but no category, he just want to have a category as neighbours countries, and as Australian, a recent category.

But the best is to provide website link of Belgium historical monuments to understand better

Alfouine, In Belgium, it is the communities / regions that manage the classified heritage
As Belgium is made up of 3 communities and 3 regions plus certain subtleties in the functioning, they exist 4 sites to consult if one wants to make a complete inventory of the classified sites / monument moreover each site is only readable in the language of the region only Brussels is in two (French & Dutch)
Here for your info
Portail de la Wallonie : Patrimoine
Agentschap Onroerend Erfgoed

Das Kulturerbeportal der Deutschsprachigen Gemeinschaft Belgiens

Découvrir notre patrimoine bruxellois
 

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I guess that first you may need to decide whether you wish to Waymark historic markers or heritage properties. Almost exclusively, categories are designed and written to focus on one or the other. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a category that includes both. Many areas have both a historic markers category and a heritage properties category. Unfortunately, here in Canada only Ontario has both categories.

Keith

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Even though the category title is Histoire du Qubec (Quebec Historical Markers), most of the waymarks are heritage properties.  This category is an example that combines markers and properties.

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Yes:P, I have now 3 Belgium membre in the group:) so I can now begin to create the rules for Editing the Category
I still hope that other Belgian members will join the group, especially Flemish and German speakers.
Thx to all other membre that support this group;) I count on you to advise me well :rolleyes:

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I think the first and most important thing is to exactly define what you want to have waymarked. This is not clear yet.

We do already have a lot of categories that are similar in other countries. You can group most of them in two segments:

1. The markers categories. These categories are really for the markers. Usually large plaques with texts about the history of a location.

2. The heritage categories. These are for sites, buildings, monuments and other structures that are listed in an official inventory. Some of the them have an official marker on site, usually only a small plaque with a symbol.

What you have written so far, here in the thread as well as in the group description, looks like you would look for the markers. This would not be my approach. Because:

The markers are all the same; the markers are not interesting, they only indicate that there is something interesting. The interesting thing is the building or monument.

I don't know about Belgium, but in my area these plaques are very rare. (I have waymarked many listed objects in France, Germany and Switzerland. All three countries do have an official plaque in theory, Germany and Switzerland blue-white like the wallonian one, France red-white. The numbers: 50 monuments historiques in France, plaques seen: about 10. 12 German protected monuments, plaques seen: 0. Over 800 protected monuments in Switzerland, plaques seen: ZERO)

I would concentrate on the listed objects and forget the markers. You have the official lists, so you do not need a physical proof of the status.

And for the large markers with a lot of text. They have an international catch-all category for areas without a local category: Signs of History.

Edited by fi67
typos
  • Upvote 1

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2 hours ago, fi67 said:

............... 

fi67
In Belgium we speak mainly of protected monuments / sites which are in Wallonia only +/- 30000 but in those there are still those who are classified (+/- 4000)
And among these there are still those we call "Patrimoine exceptionnel de Wallonie" which there are now only 220. It is on these that I want to focus (only those who can in more to be "marked" of the famous blue initials) (look the WM you declined : Le Perron - Liège Belgium )
And it is the same principle in the other regions (except in Flanders now another acronym for the new ones since the regions acquired this competence)

It's a little thanks to you that I started all these steps :P;)

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1 hour ago, BK-Hunters said:

And don't forget that markers can already be submitted to "Signs of History".

Keith

No, because I had just proposed a WM in this category  ( Le Perron - Liège Belgium) and it was declined:o

And the reason was : "I am sorry, but this category is not for these signs. It is for plaques with a descriptive text. There are some regional categories for protected objects, but I think not yet for Belgium"
And that's why I started the process to create this categoryB)
Michael

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"We are looking for signs with approximately 50 words..."

I suspect that your sign was declined because it had no words.  I have "Signs of History" waymarks in Belgium that included many words.

 

Edited by elyob

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13 hours ago, elyob said:

"We are looking for signs with approximately 50 words..."

I suspect that your sign was declined because it had no words.  I have "Signs of History" waymarks in Belgium that included many words.

 

Exactely, it was only the blue wish you can see on the first Post :rolleyes:

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On 12/17/2017 at 4:23 AM, Michaelfiles said:

Yes:P, I have now 3 Belgium membre in the group:) so I can now begin to create the rules for Editing the Category
I still hope that other Belgian members will join the group, especially Flemish and German speakers.
Thx to all other membre that support this group;) I count on you to advise me well :rolleyes:

Just a suggestion, though you meet the officer requirement for your proposal at least one officer should be more experienced. This will assist you in navigating the process of writing the proposal.

"especially Flemish and German speakers".Do not overlook English, as tourists do visit Belgium from around the world that may not necessarily speak or read Flemish or German.  . 

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4 hours ago, BK-Hunters said:

Just a suggestion, though you meet the officer requirement for your proposal at least one officer should be more experienced. This will assist you in navigating the process of writing the proposal.

"especially Flemish and German speakers".Do not overlook English, as tourists do visit Belgium from around the world that may not necessarily speak or read Flemish or German.  . 

1. ok for your suggestion, but if I have to choose I would have a clear preference for a neighbor of Belgium:P
2. Don't worry, is not to overlook English(but personally I prefer first local languages:), my personal opinionB)), but to have people who know well the region where we propose a WM

 

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Hi, gents

Here, my draft for the creation of the category
What do you  think abaut

 

Description :

 

[NL] Toon monumenten, eigendommen en beschermde gebieden in België die zijn gemarkeerd en vermeld op de verschillende lijsten in België.

[FR] Montrer des monuments, propriété et zone protégés en Belgique qui sont marquées et répertoriées sur les différentes listes en Belgique

[DE] Show Denkmäler, Eigentum und Naturschutzgebiet in Belgien, die auf den verschiedenen Listen in Belgien markiert und aufgelistet sind

[ENG] Show monuments, property and protected areas in Belgium that are marked and listed on the various lists in Belgium

 

Expanded Description :

 

[FR]

Cette catégorie est destinée à montrer des biens, des monuments classés et des zones de protection en Belgique qui de plus doivent être :

  1. Marqué par un marqueur historique Belge édité par une des régions.

  2. Inscrit sur une des listes maintenues et mises à jour par les différentes régions de Belgique.

  3. Ou se trouver sur une des cartes éditées spécialement sur les Sites des régions.

     

    [NL]

    Deze categorie is bedoeld om Erfgoed, geklasseerde monumenten en beschermingszones in België te tonen, die moeten zijn:

  1. Gemarkeerd door een Belgische historische markering bewerkt door een van de regio's.

  2. Vermeld op een van de lijsten die worden bijgehouden en bijgewerkt door de verschillende regio's van België.

  3. Of te vinden op een kaart die speciaal zijn gepubliceerd op de regionale sites.

     

    [DE]

    Diese Kategorie dient dazu, Güter, klassifizierte Denkmäler und Schutzgebiete in Belgien zu zeigen, außerdem müssen sie:

  1. Markiert sein von einem belgischen historischen Marker, herausgegeben von einer der Regionen.

  2. Auf einer der von den verschiedenen Regionen Belgiens gepflegten und aktualisierten Listen aufgeführt sein.

  3. Oder finden Sich auf Karten, die speziell auf den regionalen Seiten veröffentlicht wurden.

     

    [ENG]

    This category is intended to show goods, classified monuments and protection zones in Belgium which must be:

  1. Marked by a Belgian historical marker edited by one of the regions.

  2. Listed on one of the lists maintained and updated by the different regions of Belgium.

  3. Or to be found on a map specially published on the Regional Sites.

     

     

    Sites des regions - Regionale sites - Regionalen Seiten - Regional Sites
    (Visit Link)

     


    Instructions for Posting

     

    [FR]

    Admissibilité
    Tous les Waymarks de cette catégorie doivent être inscrits sur un des sites web officiel des différentes régions de la Belgique. Ces liens doivent obligatoirement se retrouver dans la description

    Nom du Waymark
    Nom de « l’objet » - Ville - Région (par ex. Le Perron – Liège – Wallonie)

     

    Photo
    Au moins deux images du site qui DOIVENT avoir été prises par vous-même. La première une vue du monument où l’on DOIT voir la plaque, plus une vue d’ensemble. Si un panneau explicatif et/ou une plaque avec QR code existe alors veuillez également les mettre  

    Description
    La description doit OBLIGATOIREMENT être dans une des langues officielles de la Région en premier puis si possible dans une des autres langues officielles Belge. Une description en ANGLAIS (n’oublions pas que c’est un jeu international) DOIT ÊTRE également présente.
     

    [NL]

    Verkiesbaarheid

    Alle waymarks in deze categorie moeten worden geregistreerd zijn op een van de officiële websites van de verschillende regio's van België. Deze links moeten gevonden worden in de beschrijving

     

    Naam van de Waymark

    Naam van het “Object” – Stad - Régio

     

    Foto

    Ten minste twee afbeeldingen van de site die MOETEN zijn gemaakt door uzelf. De eerste is een weergave van het monument waar u de plaquette moet zien, plus een overzicht. Als er een verklarend paneel en/ of een plaat met QR-code bestaat, plaats deze dan ook op

     

    Beschrijving

    De beschrijving MOET eerst in een van de officiële talen van de regio zijn en indien mogelijk in een van de andere officiële talen van België. Een beschrijving in het ENGELS (vergeet niet dat het een internationaal spel is) MOET ook aanwezig zijn.

     

    [DE]

    Teilnahmeberechtigung

    Alle Waymark in dieser Kategorie müssen auf einer der offiziellen Websites der verschiedenen Regionen Belgiens registriert sein. Diese Links müssen in der Beschreibung gefunden werden

     

    Name des Waymark

    Name des "Objekts" - Stadt - Régio

     

    Foto

    Es müssen mindestens zwei Bilder gemacht werden, die von Ihnen selbst erstellt werden müssen.. Eines vom Denkmal selbst wo wie die Plakette sehen sollten und eines in seiner Umgebung. Falls ein Schild / QR code über das Denkmal existiert, bitte auch ein Foto davon hinzufügen.

     

    Beschreibung

    Die Beschreibung MUSS zuerst in einer der offiziellen Sprachen der Region und wenn möglich in einer der anderen offiziellen Sprachen Belgiens erfolgen. Eine Beschreibung in ENGLISCH (vergesst nicht, dass es ein internationales Spiel ist) MUSS ebenfalls vorhanden sein.

     

     

     

     

    [ENG]

    Eligibility

    All waymarks in this category must be registered on one of the official websites of the different regions of Belgium. These links must be found in the description

     

    Name of Waymark
    Name of the "object" - City - Régio

     

    Picture

    At least two pictures have to be taken, which have to be made by yourself. One of the monument itself where the Logo must be see and one in its surroundings. If there is a plaque / QR code over the monument, please add a picture of it as well.

     

    Description

    The description MUST first be made in one of the official languages of the region and, if possible, in one of the other official languages of Belgium. A description in ENGLISH (do not forget that it is an international game) MUST also be present.

     

Restrictions:

Ce qui peut se retrouver dans les Catégories suivantes :

Wat kan in de volgende categorieën terechtkomen:

Was kann in den folgenden Kategorien komen:

What can end up in the following categories:

 

 

World Heritage Sites

War (History)

 

 

Instructions for Visiting a Waymark in this Category

 

[FR]

Prenez une photo du monument, de préférence en incluant vous-même ou votre GPSr sur la photo.

Une description très détaillée de votre visite peut être substituée à une photo.

 

[NL]

Maak een foto van het monument, met voorkeur inclusief jezelf of je GPSr op de foto.

Een zeer gedetailleerde beschrijving van uw bezoek kan in de plaats komen van een foto.

 

[DE]

Machen Sie ein Foto des Monuments, vorzugsweise mit sich selbst oder Ihrem GPS auf dem Foto.

Eine sehr detaillierte Beschreibung Ihres Besuchs kann ein Foto ersetzen.

 

[ENG]

Take a picture of the monument, preferably including yourself or your GPSr in the photo.

A very detailed description of your visit may be substituted for a photo.

 

Category Settings

 

  • Waymarks can be added to this category

  • New waymarks of this category are reviewed by the category group prior to being published

  • Category is visible in the directory

     

    Variables

     

    è FR / NL / DE / ENG

  • Adresse/Adres/Adresses/Address

  • Année de construction/Bouwjaar/Baujahr/Year of construction

  • Date d'arrêté/ Datum van het Besluit/ Datum der Unterschutzstellung/ Date of protection

  • Numéro de dossier/Dossiernummer/Dateinummer/File number

  • URL

Edited by Michaelfiles

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Is it possible that the monument is on one of the lists but there is no logo on the monument?

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Well, that's confusing.

The Dutch and English requirements are: 1, 2 and 3.

The German one is 1, 2 or 3.

The French one is not clear. I think there is a typo and it should also say "or", because the "where" does not make sense in that sentence.

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Here is the french corrections

6 hours ago, Michaelfiles said:

 

[FR] Publier les monuments, propriétés et zones protégées en Belgique qui sont référencés sur les sites officiels Belges (Voir liste ci-dessous)

 

Expanded Description :

 

[FR]

Cette catégorie est destinée à publier les monuments classés et les zones protégées en Belgique, elles devront :

  1. Etre identifié par un logo de type "monument historique" édité par une des régions.

  2. Inscrit sur une des listes maintenues et mises à jour par les différentes régions de Belgique.

  3. Se trouver sur une des cartes éditées spécialement sur les Sites des régions.

     

     

  1. Sites des regions - Regionale sites - Regionalen Seiten - Regional Sites
    (Visit Link)

     


    Instructions for Posting

     

    [FR]

    Admissibilité
    Tous les Waymarks de cette catégorie doivent être présents sur un des sites web officiel des différentes régions de Belgique. Ces liens doivent obligatoirement être présents dans la description

    Nom du Waymark
    Nom du lieu ou du monument - Ville - Région (par ex. Le Perron – Liège – Wallonie)

     

    Photo
    Au moins deux photos, prisent par vos soins, sont requises. La première doit montrer le logo "Monument historique", et la seconde une vue d’ensemble. Si un panneau explicatif et/ou une plaque avec QR code existe, cela sera un plus.

    Description
    La description doit OBLIGATOIREMENT être dans une des langues officielles de la Région en premier puis si possible dans une des autres langues officielles Belge. Une description en ANGLAIS (n’oublions pas que c’est un jeu international) DOIT ÊTRE également présente.
     

     

Restrictions:

Les waymarks correspondant à cette catégorie ne seront pas validés :

 

World Heritage Sites

War (History)

 

Instructions for Visiting a Waymark in this Category

 

[FR]

Prenez une photo du monument, de préférence avec vous ou votre GPS.

Une description très détaillée de votre visite peut se substituer à une photo.

 

Sometimes it's difficult to find the logo, it should not be a requirement if an official web link exist.

If you put a variable URL, i do not understand why you have to copy paste the link in the description (except to reference a credits)

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17 hours ago, fi67 said:

Well, that's confusing.

The Dutch and English requirements are: 1, 2 and 3.

The German one is 1, 2 or 3.

The French one is not clear. I think there is a typo and it should also say "or", because the "where" does not make sense in that sentence.

Ok, good idea, I will change ;-)

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The English translation needs work in a lot of areas. A native speaker can help here.

Also the requirement of you and a GPS in the photo is obsolete. I never take pictures of me with my GPS at a place, an$ neither do most waymarkers.  I would change this to “any personal photo of the monument is sufficient for a visit. A detailed description may be substituted for a photo.”

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17 hours ago, Alfouine said:

....

Hi,

For the correction no problem, Thx

I have been a little to see the laws, normally to benefit from subsidy it is obligatory to display the logo but actually if it is on one of the lists we can assume that it is good.

For the URL, my idea was to put here others as the official

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On 2/1/2018 at 7:48 AM, Michaelfiles said:

Hi, gents

Here, my draft for the creation of the category
What do you  think abaut

 

Description :

 

[NL] Toon monumenten, eigendommen en beschermde gebieden in België die zijn gemarkeerd en vermeld op de verschillende lijsten in België.

[FR] Montrer des monuments, propriété et zone protégés en Belgique qui sont marquées et répertoriées sur les différentes listes en Belgique

[DE] Show Denkmäler, Eigentum und Naturschutzgebiet in Belgien, die auf den verschiedenen Listen in Belgien markiert und aufgelistet sind

[ENG] Show monuments, property and protected areas in Belgium that are marked and listed on the various lists in Belgium

 

Expanded Description :

 

[FR]

Cette catégorie est destinée à montrer des biens, des monuments classés et des zones de protection en Belgique qui de plus doivent être :

  1. Marqué par un marqueur historique Belge édité par une des régions.

  2. Inscrit sur une des listes maintenues et mises à jour par les différentes régions de Belgique.

  3. Ou se trouver sur une des cartes éditées spécialement sur les Sites des régions.

     

    [NL]

    Deze categorie is bedoeld om Erfgoed, geklasseerde monumenten en beschermingszones in België te tonen, die moeten zijn:

  1. Gemarkeerd door een Belgische historische markering bewerkt door een van de regio's.

  2. Vermeld op een van de lijsten die worden bijgehouden en bijgewerkt door de verschillende regio's van België.

  3. Of te vinden op een kaart die speciaal zijn gepubliceerd op de regionale sites.

     

    [DE]

    Diese Kategorie dient dazu, Güter, klassifizierte Denkmäler und Schutzgebiete in Belgien zu zeigen, außerdem müssen sie:

  1. Markiert sein von einem belgischen historischen Marker, herausgegeben von einer der Regionen.

  2. Auf einer der von den verschiedenen Regionen Belgiens gepflegten und aktualisierten Listen aufgeführt sein.

  3. Oder finden Sich auf Karten, die speziell auf den regionalen Seiten veröffentlicht wurden.

     

    [ENG]

    This category is intended to show goods, classified monuments and protection zones in Belgium which must be:

  1. Marked by a Belgian historical marker edited by one of the regions.

  2. Listed on one of the lists maintained and updated by the different regions of Belgium.

  3. Or to be found on a map specially published on the Regional Sites.

     

     

    Sites des regions - Regionale sites - Regionalen Seiten - Regional Sites
    (Visit Link)

     


    Instructions for Posting

     

    [FR]

    Admissibilité
    Tous les Waymarks de cette catégorie doivent être inscrits sur un des sites web officiel des différentes régions de la Belgique. Ces liens doivent obligatoirement se retrouver dans la description

    Nom du Waymark
    Nom de « l’objet » - Ville - Région (par ex. Le Perron – Liège – Wallonie)

     

    Photo
    Au moins deux images du site qui DOIVENT avoir été prises par vous-même. La première une vue du monument où l’on DOIT voir la plaque, plus une vue d’ensemble. Si un panneau explicatif et/ou une plaque avec QR code existe alors veuillez également les mettre  

    Description
    La description doit OBLIGATOIREMENT être dans une des langues officielles de la Région en premier puis si possible dans une des autres langues officielles Belge. Une description en ANGLAIS (n’oublions pas que c’est un jeu international) DOIT ÊTRE également présente.
     

    [NL]

    Verkiesbaarheid

    Alle waymarks in deze categorie moeten worden geregistreerd zijn op een van de officiële websites van de verschillende regio's van België. Deze links moeten gevonden worden in de beschrijving

     

    Naam van de Waymark

    Naam van het “Object” – Stad - Régio

     

    Foto

    Ten minste twee afbeeldingen van de site die MOETEN zijn gemaakt door uzelf. De eerste is een weergave van het monument waar u de plaquette moet zien, plus een overzicht. Als er een verklarend paneel en/ of een plaat met QR-code bestaat, plaats deze dan ook op

     

    Beschrijving

    De beschrijving MOET eerst in een van de officiële talen van de regio zijn en indien mogelijk in een van de andere officiële talen van België. Een beschrijving in het ENGELS (vergeet niet dat het een internationaal spel is) MOET ook aanwezig zijn.

     

    [DE]

    Teilnahmeberechtigung

    Alle Waymark in dieser Kategorie müssen auf einer der offiziellen Websites der verschiedenen Regionen Belgiens registriert sein. Diese Links müssen in der Beschreibung gefunden werden

     

    Name des Waymark

    Name des "Objekts" - Stadt - Régio

     

    Foto

    Es müssen mindestens zwei Bilder gemacht werden, die von Ihnen selbst erstellt werden müssen.. Eines vom Denkmal selbst wo wie die Plakette sehen sollten und eines in seiner Umgebung. Falls ein Schild / QR code über das Denkmal existiert, bitte auch ein Foto davon hinzufügen.

     

    Beschreibung

    Die Beschreibung MUSS zuerst in einer der offiziellen Sprachen der Region und wenn möglich in einer der anderen offiziellen Sprachen Belgiens erfolgen. Eine Beschreibung in ENGLISCH (vergesst nicht, dass es ein internationales Spiel ist) MUSS ebenfalls vorhanden sein.

     

     

     

     

    [ENG]

    Eligibility

    All waymarks in this category must be registered on one of the official websites of the different regions of Belgium. These links must be found in the description

     

    Name of Waymark
    Name of the "object" - City - Régio

     

    Picture

    At least two pictures have to be taken, which have to be made by yourself. One of the monument itself where the Logo must be see and one in its surroundings. If there is a plaque / QR code over the monument, please add a picture of it as well.

     

    Description

    The description MUST first be made in one of the official languages of the region and, if possible, in one of the other official languages of Belgium. A description in ENGLISH (do not forget that it is an international game) MUST also be present.

     

Restrictions:

Ce qui peut se retrouver dans les Catégories suivantes :

Wat kan in de volgende categorieën terechtkomen:

Was kann in den folgenden Kategorien komen:

What can end up in the following categories:

 

 

World Heritage Sites

War (History)

 

 

Instructions for Visiting a Waymark in this Category

 

[FR]

Prenez une photo du monument, de préférence en incluant vous-même ou votre GPSr sur la photo.

Une description très détaillée de votre visite peut être substituée à une photo.

 

[NL]

Maak een foto van het monument, met voorkeur inclusief jezelf of je GPSr op de foto.

Een zeer gedetailleerde beschrijving van uw bezoek kan in de plaats komen van een foto.

 

[DE]

Machen Sie ein Foto des Monuments, vorzugsweise mit sich selbst oder Ihrem GPS auf dem Foto.

Eine sehr detaillierte Beschreibung Ihres Besuchs kann ein Foto ersetzen.

 

[ENG]

Take a picture of the monument, preferably including yourself or your GPSr in the photo.

A very detailed description of your visit may be substituted for a photo.

 

Category Settings

 

  • Waymarks can be added to this category

  • New waymarks of this category are reviewed by the category group prior to being published

  • Category is visible in the directory

     

    Variables

     

    è FR / NL / DE / ENG

  • Adresse/Adres/Adresses/Address

  • Année de construction/Bouwjaar/Baujahr/Year of construction

  • Date d'arrêté/ Datum van het Besluit/ Datum der Unterschutzstellung/ Date of protection

  • Numéro de dossier/Dossiernummer/Dateinummer/File number

  • URL

CATEGORY DESCRIPTION

”[ENG] Show monuments, property and protected areas in Belgium that are marked and listed on the various lists in Belgium”

I’d say this this way:

Record monuments, properties, and protected sites in Belgium that are marked with an official logo of a recognized heritage organization and listed in the Belgian Heritage lists specified in this category.

EXPANDED DESCRIPTION

[ENG]

This category is intended to include classified monuments and protection zones in Belgium which must be:

  1. Marked by a Belgian historical marker installed by one of the regions.

  2. Listed on one of the lists maintained and updated by the different regions of Belgium.

  3. found on a map specially published on the Regional Sites websites

 

INSTRUCTIONS FOR POSTING

[ENG]

All waymarks in this category must be registered on one of the official websites of the different regions of Belgium. These links must be pasted in the long description AND included as variables.

 

Name of Waymark
Name of the waymarked site - City - Region

 

Picture 

At least two personally-obtained photos must be submitted, more photos are welcome.  One photo must be of  of the monument itself, including the logo of the listing entity. The other photo should be a wider shot of the site showing its surroundings.  If there is a plaque at the monument explaining its history, a close-up photo of it must be included as well.

 

Description

The long and short descriptions MUST be in English, as the Lingua Franca of Waymarking. If you speak one of the official languages of the region or one of the other official languages of Belgium, please add descriptions in those languages as well. 

Note: I made big changes here because I am never going to be able to speak one of those official languages well enough to create a waymark, so in my view this section needs to reworked to say that  English is mandatory as the Lingua Franca of Waymarking, and a regional language is encouraged but optional. I have reworked this paragraph to reflect that. Most waymarkers speak only English and you will need their votes in peer review. A requirement to write in a local language first will be an easy reason to vote no. A request to also post in a regional or official Belgian language will be fine AS LONG AS it is not REQUIRED - (CAPS for emphasis not shouting).  Don’t make us English-only tourists use google translate into a Belgian language to post in this category. It will be ugly, GUARANTEED. And your waymarkers who do speak an official Belguan language will write in it anyway - 

VARIABLES

The English in the variables is fine. :)

VISIT INSTRUCTIONS

[ENG]

Take a personally-obtained picture of the monument.

A very detailed description of your visit may be substituted for a photo.

 

Those comments above are both my suggested English language edits AND my suggested changes to the category description. I hope this helps. :) Regards, Mama Blaster 

Edited by Benchmark Blasterz

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2 hours ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

........

Thx for all your comments
First of all I would like to point out that the Belgian is not a language
Here in MY country we speak 3 languages (dutch-french and german) and we are proud of it
For English I can understand your opinion, But if you want the WMs to have more luck than it works, you must I think accept other languages (and especially not denigrate them) it's called Multiculturality in Europe
To create this category I took as an example these 2 categories Histoire du Quebec (Quebec Historical Markers) &  Deutsche Denkmallisten - German Monument Registers
In the first, you can see that we explicitly ask to use French ?????
You can also see that i have say that "
A description in ENGLISH (do not forget that it is an international game) MUST also be present"
Always thx for your comments
Michael

 

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I think it is a problem to require any other language than English. English can, but does not need to, be required, because it is our common language here on Waymarking, also in the forum.

It is an international game. This means that all categories are managed by the same officers, regardless of the country of a waymark, an English version is important for the officers of international categories.

But it also an international game, because travellers from other countries would like to contribute to regional categories. Don't forget the grid! You will have submissions by tourists from English speaking countries, but also Czech, Portuguese and others. If you require a local language, anyone not speaking any of these languages will have a disadvantage and maybe will vote against your category. And I would understand that.

The wording we used for the Austrian ans Swiss category is probably a better choice: "Multilingual submissions are highly welcome but not required. Ideally we would like to see texts in English and the local predominant language (German in most areas, French or Italian in some Swiss regions)".

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4 hours ago, Michaelfiles said:

Thx for all your comments
First of all I would like to point out that the Belgian is not a language
Here in MY country we speak 3 languages (dutch-french and german) and we are proud of it
For English I can understand your opinion, But if you want the WMs to have more luck than it works, you must I think accept other languages (and especially not denigrate them) it's called Multiculturality in Europe
To create this category I took as an example these 2 categories Histoire du Quebec (Quebec Historical Markers) &  Deutsche Denkmallisten - German Monument Registers
In the first, you can see that we explicitly ask to use French ?????
You can also see that i have say that "
A description in ENGLISH (do not forget that it is an international game) MUST also be present"
Always thx for your comments
Michael

 

I meant no denigration of any other language. I love multi-cultural places, they are always very exciting! :) I know that Belgian is not a language, it was my shorthand way to refer to the many languages spoken IN Belgium. Apologies for  not making that clearer. :)

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I would be okay with this category, so long as these are actual Belgian historical markers, and not just historical plaques on every street corner. Is there a government website that has a list of all the sites? I'm against historical marker categories that accepts every historical maker, even though it's not an official government issued one. Is there a way to disguising a normal plaque from one that is a true Belgian historical marker like a logo, a designation or site number, or website? If so, I would vote yea.

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The category creator has already listed the web-site databases for the different government agencies that maintain official monuments.

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Hi, after having considered some of your comments, I just finished the layout

Now it's time to go to next step : "Category Status: The group's category, Belgium Monument Registers is being reviewed by the group officers."

Edited by Michaelfiles

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6 hours ago, Michaelfiles said:

Hi, after having considered some of your comments, I just finished the layout

Now it's time to go to next step : "Category Status: The group's category, Belgium Monument Registers is being reviewed by the group officers."

Hopefully the category officers in their review will change the script font that is impossible to read bank into the standard font. 

YIKES

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3 hours ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

Hopefully the category officers in their review will change the script font that is impossible to read bank into the standard font. 

YIKES

Hi, YIKES
I don't understand your comment
1. Your not an Offifier in the group so i ask me how you can see the script
2. I made the script in HTML code, so normally it is visible by everybody
Or I did not understand something:o:rolleyes:;)

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5 hours ago, Michaelfiles said:

Hi, YIKES
I don't understand your comment
1. Your not an Offifier in the group so i ask me how you can see the script
2. I made the script in HTML code, so normally it is visible by everybody
Or I did not understand something:o:rolleyes:;)

What YIKES means (SCNR :ph34r:), is not that it is invisible. It is visible to everyone who knows how to access it, even before the category is activated. Especially when you provide a direct link to it in the post above.

The font you chose is very difficult to read. I would not go as far to say impossible, but you sure do the users no favour with this design. This font may be appropriate for the headline of a girlish love story, but a bad choice for continuous text.

Unfortunately, once a category has gone to officer's review, the text is locked until after peer review. You cannot change it right now, unless you stop officer review.

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The most important is that it is easy to read and that you don't have too many different fonts on a page. You cannot change the general design of the site, like side navigation and the short category description, so there is no reason to change the standard font for the category description, except for maybe inside special text boxes like the restrictions or the authoritative links, but for these it is even more important to be easy to read, so decorative fonts are a no-go.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:38 PM, fi67 said:

I think it is a problem to require any other language than English. English can, but does not need to, be required, because it is our common language here on Waymarking, also in the forum.

It is an international game. This means that all categories are managed by the same officers, regardless of the country of a waymark, an English version is important for the officers of international categories.

But it also an international game, because travellers from other countries would like to contribute to regional categories. Don't forget the grid! You will have submissions by tourists from English speaking countries, but also Czech, Portuguese and others. If you require a local language, anyone not speaking any of these languages will have a disadvantage and maybe will vote against your category. And I would understand that.

The wording we used for the Austrian ans Swiss category is probably a better choice: "Multilingual submissions are highly welcome but not required. Ideally we would like to see texts in English and the local predominant language (German in most areas, French or Italian in some Swiss regions)".

Sorry to come late to this discussion.  I was prompted to due to the category vote and have not been following this thread until now. 

First let me say that this category has been a missing piece of the European national heritage puzzle for a long time and I thank Michaelfiles for taking this initiative.

I see a lot of time has already been spent working on this category, but I have to agree with fi67.  It would be a real pity if non French, German, Flemish/Dutch speaking tourists were not able to enjoy and take advantage of this category.

I do not want to vote "no" for the category but I have strong reservations on this point.  Maybe I will abstain.

For my category Monuments Historiques I have no particular language requirement, meaning people can post in any language or multiple ones as they wish. (google translate can do a pretty good job these days by the way when judging submissions in a language one doesn't understand).  This approach has worked well for me.

 

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I understand your remarks regarding the English language
But I also think that if we have to limit only to English, it's also quite restrictive for those who didn't understand this language.
And if we want that WMs have more success to be limited to one language is not advisable.

Just look at the guidelines for EarthCache on geocaching since you have to use Local Language to create them, In some countries they have been multiplied by 3 if not by 5
As you can see, i have made chance since the first draft

Description
The description MUST first be made in one of the official languages of the region and, if possible, in one of the other official languages of Belgium. A description in ENGLISH MUST also be present (do not forget that it is an international game).
 
If you look at this catégorie : Histoire du Quebec (Quebec Historical Markers)  you can also see : "Description MUST be in FRENCH first, then optionally, in ENGLISH..."
So I'm not the first to ask to use another language 
:D
 
Edited by Michaelfiles

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48 minutes ago, Michaelfiles said:

if we have to limit only to English, 
 

 

Sorry, I think you misunderstood.  I'm not suggesting that you limit the category to English.  I'm rather saying to not impose the use of any particular language.

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I am very excited about this category. The native language component is NOT an obstacle. Simply borrow some native language text from the on-site plaque or from the official web page for the heritage subject.

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The means of translation are now at the forefront, so the language barrier does not pose any more problems, it is a category that was missing, it is very well built and the discussion on the forum allowed to advance the assembly, I vote for a big yes.

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8 hours ago, elyob said:

I am very excited about this category. The native language component is NOT an obstacle. Simply borrow some native language text from the on-site plaque or from the official web page for the heritage subject.

Alright, end you can always ask for help the officer and VIP member:rolleyes: for translation
The members have been chosen because they have knowledge in the different languages used in Belgium

Franketmuriel : FR &NL
Dreamhummie precisely for NL
I have specifically invited fi67 to joint us for this knowledge in German,

I also invited lumbricus, leader of group Deutsche Denkmallisten - German Monument Registers for his experience and for German

and I hope:rolleyes:I'm doing pretty well in the 3 national languages:ph34r:

 

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I do support the category, but the language requirements are a big mistake. You will find out yourself sooner or later.

Not primarily because it is an obstacle for foreign waymarkers, because it is not a very big one, online translators have become much better* over the last years.

But it shows a quite unfriendly attitude towards speakers of other languages, that will not have a positive impact on the category. This is not only true for foreigners, but also for Belgians who do not speak English. You wrote: "do not forget that it is an international game", arbitrary language restrictions do not make it more international.

(* it depends on the language combination. English-French is not that bad - well, bad, but usually understandable. The English-Dutch results always make me think the computer was slightly stoned and most English-German translations must have been created by a totally drunk machine.)

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Hello everyone,
May I point out to you what WM is for Groundspeak's : 
What is Waymarking? ...........Groundspeak's slogan is "The Language of Location" and our goal is to give people the tools to help others share and discover unique and interesting locations on the planet........( Link )
Best regards

 

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2 hours ago, Michaelfiles said:

Hello everyone,
May I point out to you what WM is for Groundspeak's : 
What is Waymarking? ...........Groundspeak's slogan is "The Language of Location" and our goal is to give people the tools to help others share and discover unique and interesting locations on the planet........( Link )
Best regards

 

I have absolutely no idea what you want to say with this.

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15 minutes ago, fi67 said:

I have absolutely no idea what you want to say with this

Perhaps the intent was to give us a lesson in Waymarking. :unsure:

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11 hours ago, BK-Hunters said:

Perhaps the intent was to give us a lesson in Waymarking. :unsure:

I'am not here to give lesson, I'm trying to understand where this stubbornness from some people comes from wanting to use only English

In fact my problem is that I'm looking for where it is written (in a rule or otherwise) that English is the language we are "forced" to use in WM
Do not get me wrong, I'm not against English, I even strongly agree that it takes an explanation / description in this language for understanding ==> In Description : ENGLISH MUST also be present B)

And in fact, I did not find anything except (see topic above) in "Waymarking FAQ", and that I interpret as a will / wish of Groundspeak that we do not forget the locals peoples/Language. I may be wrong:unsure:
 

For your comments in "Peer Review" 
Ok for .3 : "Or" would be more adequate than "Of"
For .2 : Whereas my english is not famous:(, "preferably" (more in the sense of a wish) does not mean "Must" ???==> we agree also a photo of the monument without the person or GPS
Do not get me wrong, I'm not angry. Usually a good open discussion gets things done:D
Best Regards, Michael

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18 hours ago, fi67 said:

 online translators have become much better* over the last years.

 

I believe that on-line translators are adequate for understanding what has been written but are still insufficient for creating a decent description.

Again, imposing no particular language restriction would seem to me to be the best solution.

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