Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3
TwistedCube

New Cache Type ? ? ?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Manville Possum said:

I see them as event games, and have completed several. How about you? ;)

I did a handful when they first appeared. After a while I removed them from my stats because they are just test containers, not cache(listing)s. Plus at that time there was contention as to whether they should even appear in stats let alone alter the cache find count. It was easier to not record them and not worry about them.  They can still be enjoyed without displaying the stats.

Edited by thebruce0

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

I did a handful when they first appeared. After a while I removed them from my stats because they are just test containers, not cache(listing)s. Plus at that time there was contention as to whether they should even appear in stats let alone alter the cache find count. It was easier to not record them and not worry about them.  They can still be enjoyed without displaying the stats.

Only a few that I played were test containers, and were more like the common temporary event caches where the coordinates are handed out. Seems this is an issue for the numbers players that the find don't count, but I enjoyed the history lesson of the ones I played. Some others I took part in were games, like shooting a bow and arrow. The logging code was there at the "game/cache". I got several requests from players that did not attend the MEGA event or take part asking that I share the logging codes.

Sorry if you took it as a stats thing, which I give a poot not about. They were fun for me and I wanted your take on them and share mine with you. :)

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Manville Possum said:

Only a few that I played were test containers, and were more like the common temporary event caches where the coordinates are handed out.

That's because they can. They're lab(oratory) caches; fundamentally, they are test containers. For major events, they are perfect listings to create temporary games and puzzles without having them be permanent official cache find statistics, that's why they're popular for event games.  Temporary caches were popular for events too - caches placed for events unbound by listing rules and people would log events multiple times for each 'find'. Using the Lab Cache option helps to clear that issue up; like a positive reinforcement. =P  Perhaps in time we'll find a new official 'thing' for event games/puzzles - but they won't be called "Lab Caches" :) They are good to have for concepts that aren't made official, and allowing people to choose whether to show their Lab stats or not is a good thing, because they're not official caches but temporarily available conceptual games and experiences.

When it first started, Labs were set up using a specific structure as a test. When that test session closed, they would come back slightly different, but the previous Lab completion stats were still available. That was the initial intent, re-use in different forms to try out different experiences, with the only real 'stat' being a Lab Cache completion (ie, no DT, no attributes, etc, since Lab properties could theoretically change from Lab test to test).  They're currently in the form of a flexible container for tasks and digital completion/verifications.  Seems to be the most popular inception of the Lab Cache so far, to my perception, so I wouldn't be surprised if that type of experience is somehow at some point made official in some other manner.

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

People think Lab Cache is some other cache type. It's literally "laboratory" - an experimental catch all. Mystery is the catch-all for allowed cache styles not classifiable as another type. Lab caches can be any new test idea, or temporary tasks or puzzles or whatnot for events, etc, physical or virtual. At least when they started, it was a legitimate container to try something and find out if it could hold water as something official. Now it seems to be primarily temporary event games and whatnot.  I see the Lab Cache find as number of times you've helped "test" a new caching idea, and that's why they're not added to your cache find count (any more). They're not an official cache. :P

Yes, this is exactly what my impression is of lab caches and what they've become.  Now, if someone could post an idea for a new cache type here, it could be tested as a lab cache.  I have an idea of a new cache type, which I've posted on the forum before, but it wouldn't work as a lab cache unless the event was a couple of weeks long.

An idea for a cache type that would work as a lab cache at an event would be something I"d call a Live Stream cache.  .It would require someone setting up a laptop with a camera/microphone with a live stream using one of many streaming services. (eg. uStream).  To log the cache, you;d have to stand in front of the camera, state your user name and perhaps say a little about who are, where you're from or just about your experience at the event.  At the end of the event, the cache could no longer be logged and you'd have a week or so to log your "find".   Those that weren't able to attend the event would be able to watch the live stream.

Edited by NYPaddleCacher

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, TwistedCube said:

I've created a monster.

... ‘cause nobody wants ta
See Marshall no more, they want Shady, I'm chopped liver
Well, if you want Shady, this is what I'll give ya

:D

Share this post


Link to post

There is an app called what 3 words. Basically, there is a three word combination that is cross referenced for each 9 square foot on earth. Wonder if that could somehow be turned into a new cache type?

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, Rathergohiking said:

There is an app called what 3 words. Basically, there is a three word combination that is cross referenced for each 9 square foot on earth. Wonder if that could somehow be turned into a new cache type?

 

What would the logging requirements be?

Share this post


Link to post

I have seen that coord system used in several puzzle caches - you figure out what the three words are, then use the website to determine the final location.

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, egroeg said:

I have seen that coord system used in several puzzle caches - you figure out what the three words are, then use the website to determine the final location.

Indeed, this is a permissible cache design because the three words resolve to a precise set of GPS coordinates.  Right now, they're a type of Mystery Cache.  I've published a number of them.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Rathergohiking said:

No special logging requirements necessary. Just a unique way of finding a cache. Maybe worth a unique icon....or not?

Every unique puzzle is a unique way of finding a cache. Well no, not a unique "way" of finding a cache, just a unique way of determining coordinates, which is a "way" covered by the Mystery cache type.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Rathergohiking said:

There is an app called what 3 words. Basically, there is a three word combination that is cross referenced for each 9 square foot on earth. Wonder if that could somehow be turned into a new cache type?

I've seen several puzzle caches based on What 3 Words, but certainly not enough to make it a new cache type.

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, egroeg said:

I have seen that coord system used in several puzzle caches - you figure out what the three words are, then use the website to determine the final location.

There is apparently a web site where can speak three words and it will decode them into coordinates.  That could make for an interesting gadget cache.  One could visit three waypoints to obtain each word, then go to a 4th location with an arduino based gadget.  Say the three words and it would display the coordinates for the final.  

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I've seen several puzzle caches based on What 3 Words, but certainly not enough to make it a new cache type.

And ultimately, the What 3 Words puzzles are just a variation of keyword puzzles: Figure out the keyword(s), enter the keyword(s) into on online system, and the online system provides the coordinates. If Groundspeak were going to create a new cache type, then it should be for keyword puzzles, not just keyword puzzles that use What 3 Words to provide the coordinates.

But I don't think that type of puzzle needs its own type anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/8/2017 at 8:35 PM, Rathergohiking said:

There is an app called what 3 words. Basically, there is a three word combination that is cross referenced for each 9 square foot on earth. Wonder if that could somehow be turned into a new cache type?

I think this is a cool idea for a puzzle cache, but I agree that it doesn't need to be its own cache type.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, hzoi said:

I think this is a cool idea for a puzzle cache, but I agree that it doesn't need to be its own cache type.

As a matter of fact, it is already used by a couple of puzzle caches (at least). 

Edited by Tungstène
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Tungstène said:
4 hours ago, hzoi said:

I think this is a cool idea for a puzzle cache, but I agree that it doesn't need to be its own cache type.

As a matter of fact, it is already used by a couple of puzzle caches (at least). 

Well, there you go.

I've owned sudoku caches, map caches, and even multiple caches based on pi.  I'm OK with having them just be mystery/unknown caches; they don't need to be their own type, either.

Edited by hzoi

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/6/2017 at 3:06 AM, TwistedCube said:

What would be a good new cache type? I feel that there would be more to the game with it, allowing more possibilities for hides. 

 

I've read this statement several times.     I'm struggling how to answer as there are several aspects.    If the focus is "allowing more possibilities for hides", I think "cache type" confuses this a bit.   I.e.

1.  It is possible to change the guidelines to allow hides which aren't allowed today, without adding a cache type.

2.   It is possible to create a cache type which doesn't allow new possibilities, but recognizes a "type" which already exists.

And then, there could be

3.  A new idea for a type of geocache, not allowed today, which could be allowed (and become a new type).

Challenge caches are a long discussed option for Type 2.  I feel there is at least an argument that they are established long enough and distinctive enough to have a cache type.  In the past, the Letterbox Hybrid is Type 2.   It didn't allow anything new really, you could put a stamp in a container already.  

For #1, an example of that is the recent relaxing of the burying guidelines.   Personally I would like to see a relaxation on the need for a separate "container".   E.g one of the most favourited caches in the UK (now archived) was a poster asking for people to sign up for a band.     The poster was the log.   It was maintained and replaced as needed, but was against the guidelines as there was not a "container".   It lasted for years however.    I know there is a "slippery slope" argument, but as long as there is a log which is maintained and can be replaced I don't see the need for separate container from log.  But this is a minor detail, not what I think the OP is looking for.

#3 is harder to come up with.   If you look at the past, Webcam caches are an example of something different that became a separate type.   Wherigo was another.    With the focus on physical containers.. and smart phones etc which can run all sorts of apps (like Wherigo, but not restricted to those), I find it hard to come up with an idea for something really new.    Which, I think, is what the OP is looking for.   

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, TwistedCube said:
5 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

I've read this statement several times.     I'm struggling how to answer as there are several aspects.    If the focus is "allowing more possibilities for hides", I think "cache type" confuses this a bit. 

For instance, there wasn't Wherigos or LBH's, now there is, thus "allowing more possibilities for hides." What i'm trying to ask here is for a completely new cache type that isn't a type now. 

Surely that's more possibilities for cache locating methods rather the more possibilities for hides?

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

I've read this statement several times.     I'm struggling how to answer as there are several aspects.    If the focus is "allowing more possibilities for hides", I think "cache type" confuses this a bit. 

For instance, there wasn't Wherigos or LBH's, now there is, thus "allowing more possibilities for hides." What i'm trying to ask here is for a completely new cache type that isn't a type now. 

Share this post


Link to post

Right, in which case, puzzle styles (determination of hidden coordinates for the final standard container in some fairly standard manner) don't fit the bill...  as redsox commented, a relevant idea would be an experience that doesn't already fit within the existing guidelines and standard listing construction. (such as challenge caches with ALRs, or what webcams and wherigos were, or letterboxes added).

Share this post


Link to post

Anyone else noticed how sometimes replies to posts end up displayed before the post they quote?

Second time I've seen this now.

Some discrepancy between time zones???

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

Surely that's more possibilities for cache locating methods rather the more possibilities for hides?

I meant hides and method of locating, but just not a different type of puzzle cache.

Edited by TwistedCube

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Right, in which case, puzzle styles (determination of hidden coordinates for the final standard container in some fairly standard manner) don't fit the bill...  as redsox commented, a relevant idea would be an experience that doesn't already fit within the existing guidelines and standard listing construction. (such as challenge caches with ALRs, or what webcams and wherigos were, or letterboxes added).

EXACTLY!

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

Anyone else noticed how sometimes replies to posts end up displayed before the post they quote?

Second time I've seen this now.

Some discrepancy between time zones???

Probably a glitch. I have noticed that it tends to happen at the worst possible time.

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

Anyone else noticed how sometimes replies to posts end up displayed before the post they quote?

Yup.  Posted it as a bug but it keeps happening.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Team Microdot said:

Surely that's more possibilities for cache locating methods rather the more possibilities for hides?

I interpreted "hides" to be about the complete geocache finding experience.  

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

I interpreted "hides" to be about the complete geocache finding experience.  

Agreed.  I've done traditional, multi, mystery, and intercaches (which doesn't have it's own cache type) that all used the same type of container and hidden in the same manner.

Quote

3.  A new idea for a type of geocache, not allowed today, which could be allowed (and become a new type).

I also wanted to clarify that for #3 on your earlier post, that it requires a change in the guidelines to allow for the new cache type to be submitted.  The fact that it's not allowed now would mean that it would require a guideline change to allow it.   

Edited by NYPaddleCacher

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

1.  It is possible to change the guidelines to allow hides which aren't allowed today, without adding a cache type.

2.   It is possible to create a cache type which doesn't allow new possibilities, but recognizes a "type" which already exists.

And then, there could be

3.  A new idea for a type of geocache, not allowed today, which could be allowed (and become a new type).

Option 3 is rather hit or miss. Maybe the completely new concept takes off. Maybe it doesn't Maybe it's somewhere in between.

I think a better approach in most cases is to allow the "catch-all" mystery/puzzle type to serve it's role as "the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category". Then, if the concept proves worthwhile, a new type can be created for it.

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, niraD said:

Option 3 is rather hit or miss. Maybe the completely new concept takes off. Maybe it doesn't Maybe it's somewhere in between.

I think a better approach in most cases is to allow the "catch-all" mystery/puzzle type to serve it's role as "the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category". Then, if the concept proves worthwhile, a new type can be created for it.

As far as what we as caches can do.. that is all we can do.  We can come up with new ideas within the guidelines, and if some take off, maybe they become a type.   But that doesn't create new things you can't do today, which is what the OP was looking for.

Groundspeak can introduce something new.   Like they introduced Webcams and Wherigos and Virtuals.   Whilst it is not a new type, they did do something new in creating "new virtuals".     I think the OP was looking for those kind of ideas.. something really new and different, that we can't do today.      Ideas which Groundspeak could consider.  

Wherigo was a bit special as it was pre-smartphones (initially) and created something new.  Now, not only can Wherigos be done on a phone/tablet, so can Intercaches and other "games" which can augment the search.    

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, redsox_mark said:

Wherigo was a bit special as it was pre-smartphones (initially) and created something new.  Now, not only can Wherigos be done on a phone/tablet, so can Intercaches and other "games" which can augment the search.    

Actually, I think Wherigo Caches could have benefited from a little time being listed as mystery/puzzle caches. For one thing, they're named after a specific platform, rather than being named after the general concept. Groundspeak did the Beacon Cache attribute correctly, naming it after the general concept, rather than after Chirp or any other specific platform.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I also wanted to clarify that for #3 on your earlier post, that it requires a change in the guidelines to allow for the new cache type to be submitted.  The fact that it's not allowed now would mean that it would require a guideline change to allow it.

Exactly, which is why challenge caches are a reasonable candidate - they have an ALR exception to a typical physical cache (thus pushed into the Mystery catch-all). At this point the ALR was sufficiently similar to not warrant a new cache type. But as GS said long ago, it was something they were considering. I'd still prefer a separate challenge metric to keep the D and T strictly related to the coordinates and the physical container with the challenge seaparated out to its own rating *cough*stars.  But be what it may, GS decides.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, niraD said:

I think a better approach in most cases is to allow the "catch-all" mystery/puzzle type to serve it's role as "the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category". Then, if the concept proves worthwhile, a new type can be created for it.

And this really was what the Lab Cache concept was intended to address. But they're now pretty much always temporary event keyword-style virtual game caches that are optional considered in your stats as a 'test' type record.  They need to make more use of Lab Caches in unique ways, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Team Microdot said:

Anyone else noticed how sometimes replies to posts end up displayed before the post they quote?

Yeah, that was funny, and I think most of us noticed it since it was rather striking.

Any chance you started your reply before the post you ended up replying to was posted? That was my guess: you started a reply and that act fixes its place in the order, but then you clicked on that "TwistedCube has replied. Show Reply" link that pops up, hence ending up replying to a reply that was started after you started your reply. In other words, I'm wondering if the bug could be explained by replies being ordered by when they're started even though that sometimes makes a lot less sense than ordering them by when they're posted.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, dprovan said:

Yeah, that was funny, and I think most of us noticed it since it was rather striking.

Any chance you started your reply before the post you ended up replying to was posted? That was my guess: you started a reply and that act fixes its place in the order, but then you clicked on that "TwistedCube has replied. Show Reply" link that pops up, hence ending up replying to a reply that was started after you started your reply. In other words, I'm wondering if the bug could be explained by replies being ordered by when they're started even though that sometimes makes a lot less sense than ordering them by when they're posted.

It's more complicated than that.  I've experienced several times where a post has preceded the post it quotes, which would of course normally be impossible unless the first poster was clairvoyant.

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, hzoi said:

It's more complicated than that.  I've experienced several times where a post has preceded the post it quotes, which would of course normally be impossible unless the first poster was clairvoyant.

What I find interesting is that the timestamps of the two reversed replies can make it clear that the first one was posted a few minutes after the second one. For example:

  • Posted 1 hour ago
  • Posted 8 minutes ago
  • Posted 12 minutes ago
  • Posted 3 minutes ago

So somewhere, there is a timestamp that is accurate. But for some reason, the forum software does not use that timestamp, and instead uses something else that puts the replies in the wrong order.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, hzoi said:
13 hours ago, dprovan said:

Yeah, that was funny, and I think most of us noticed it since it was rather striking.

Any chance you started your reply before the post you ended up replying to was posted? That was my guess: you started a reply and that act fixes its place in the order, but then you clicked on that "TwistedCube has replied. Show Reply" link that pops up, hence ending up replying to a reply that was started after you started your reply. In other words, I'm wondering if the bug could be explained by replies being ordered by when they're started even though that sometimes makes a lot less sense than ordering them by when they're posted.

It's more complicated than that.  I've experienced several times where a post has preceded the post it quotes, which would of course normally be impossible unless the first poster was clairvoyant.

My best guess is that there's some distributed network / time-zone / time-stamp discrepancy.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3

×