New "Edit" Form

[+The Snowdog]

I met the new "Edit" form today. Some nice new features, some bugs, some things that weren't broken but got fixed anyway. Here's my initial take (as posted on the Geocaching Blog.

For starters, there's no way to enter the URL of a "Related Web Page" on the new edit form. And of course the cache I'm creating today has a Related Web Page, which I can't put on the page until this is fixed or until I can get back to the old edit page.

Now on to editing. When making a new cache page we edit many, many times but submit only once. Therefore the default action at the bottom of the edit page should be either "Save" or "Save and Preview" but most definitely NOT "Submit for Review." Likewise, the default action at the top of the view page should be "Edit" and NOT "Submit for Review." You want the default (highlighted) actions to be the most common ones, not the ones you'll do only once.

And this will just require a change in habit. I posted a Reviewer Note (as usual), then submitted the cache - which then pops up a text box requires you to write ANOTHER reviewer note!

I also just found out that submitting a cache now locks it for editing, so if you're in the habit of submitting a cache, then tweaking the page, you're now out of luck.

Hope the "Related Web Page" issue gets fixed soon. THANKS.

Edited December 5, 2017 by The Snowdog

[+NanCycle]

42 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

I also just found out that submitting a cache now locks it for editing, so if you're in the habit of submitting a cache, then tweaking the page, you're now out of luck.

Bad news, but good to know now rather than too late.  Thanks.

[+The A-Team]

FYI, there's an ongoing discussion of this change in the Release Notes forum. The "Related web page" change has been addressed there.

[+arisoft]

1 hour ago, The Snowdog said:

Hope the "Related Web Page" issue gets fixed soon. THANKS.

You can insert it this way if needed:

<a title="Related Web Page" href="link_to_the_related_web_page">Related Web Page</a><br/>

Edited December 5, 2017 by arisoft

[+The Snowdog]

Well it looks like "Related Web Page" is gone so my request for a fix is now irrelevant. But I would like to see the highlighted defaults change away from "Submit." I just KNOW I'm going to submit something when I intended to edit.

Edited December 5, 2017 by The Snowdog

[+barefootjeff]

6 hours ago, The Snowdog said:

And this will just require a change in habit. I posted a Reviewer Note (as usual), then submitted the cache - which then pops up a text box requires you to write ANOTHER reviewer note!

Does the pop-up reviewer note thing overwrite the original? If so, this would be very annoying. I generally create a skeletal cache page and reviewer note so I can get the GC code to label the container with, then, after hiding the container, will flesh everything out including the reviewer note to which I attach photos of the container, hiding place and anything else that might be relevant. Other stuff might be added to the note as the cache page design continues, such as permissions and, in the case of challenge caches, a list of prequalifiers and availability of qualifying caches. I sometimes put as much effort into the reviewer note as I do for the cache page, so if the new process requires the reviewer note to be created on the fly when clicking on Submit, that to me is a big backward step.

[+arisoft]

6 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

so if the new process requires the reviewer note to be created on the fly when clicking on Submit, that to me is a big backward step.

I just opened a new GC-code and didn't see any reviewer note during the process. There is the old "Post Reviewer Note " which seems to work as usually.

[+SN67]

12 hours ago, The Snowdog said:

 But I would like to see the highlighted defaults change away from "Submit." I just KNOW I'm going to submit something when I intended to edit.

I second that! I've already almost hit it twice today, as you get drawn to the green BIG button 

[+jellis]

On 12/5/2017 at 3:45 PM, arisoft said:

You can insert it this way if needed:

<a title="Related Web Page" href="link_to_the_related_web_page">Related Web Page</a><br/>

Haven't tried it, does it really work and does in go in the main body copy?

[+JohnCNA]

On 12/5/2017 at 11:39 PM, barefootjeff said:

Does the pop-up reviewer note thing overwrite the original? If so, this would be very annoying. I generally create a skeletal cache page and reviewer note so I can get the GC code to label the container with, then, after hiding the container, will flesh everything out including the reviewer note to which I attach photos of the container, hiding place and anything else that might be relevant. Other stuff might be added to the note as the cache page design continues, such as permissions and, in the case of challenge caches, a list of prequalifiers and availability of qualifying caches. I sometimes put as much effort into the reviewer note as I do for the cache page, so if the new process requires the reviewer note to be created on the fly when clicking on Submit, that to me is a big backward step.

What happens now is when you click Submit and enter your Reviewer Note, it locks further editing unless you Cancel your submission or it gets publisbed. Canceling the submission will mark the cache as disabled. If you cancel, you can edit again and resubmit again after editing. If you resubmit, you have to type in another reviewer note again. 

Just don't Submit for Publication until you're done editing. Once published, it can be edited/tweaked, same as before.

Most of time our reviewer is so prompt there isnt much more than 24 hours between submission and publication anyway.

Edited February 14, 2018 by JohnCNA

[+barefootjeff]

15 minutes ago, JohnCNA said:

On 12/6/2017 at 4:39 PM, barefootjeff said:

Does the pop-up reviewer note thing overwrite the original? If so, this would be very annoying. I generally create a skeletal cache page and reviewer note so I can get the GC code to label the container with, then, after hiding the container, will flesh everything out including the reviewer note to which I attach photos of the container, hiding place and anything else that might be relevant. Other stuff might be added to the note as the cache page design continues, such as permissions and, in the case of challenge caches, a list of prequalifiers and availability of qualifying caches. I sometimes put as much effort into the reviewer note as I do for the cache page, so if the new process requires the reviewer note to be created on the fly when clicking on Submit, that to me is a big backward step.

What happens now is when you click Submit and enter your Reviewer Note, it locks further editing unless you Cancel your submission or it gets publisbed. Canceling the submission will mark the cache as disabled. If you cancel, you can edit again and resubmit again after editing.

Just don't Submit for Publication until you're done editing. Once published, it can be edited/tweaked, same as before.

Most of time our reviewer is so prompt there isnt much more than 24 hours between submission and publication anyway.

Note that I was referring to editing the reviewer note, not the cache page. Now that's not possible as you don't get to create the reviewer note until you click Submit, then you have to compose it all on the fly. Not all reviewer notes are trivial, some require a lot of information like permissions, land zoning, puzzle explanations, descriptions and photos of the cache, GZ and its placement, etc.

For the new cache I'm currently working on, the puzzle explanation is quite involved (it's a D4), and there are also other factors to be included in the reviewer note like the map showing railway lines running right through GZ when in fact the tracks are 150 metres underground there. I've now had to resort to creating a Word document to compose my note as I think of things that need mentioning or tweak the wording to make my explanation clearer to the reviewer, hoping that when I finally click on Submit in a few days time, I'll be able to just cut and paste it into the reviewer note.

[+arisoft]

35 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

I've now had to resort to creating a Word document to compose my note as I think of things that need mentioning or tweak the wording to make my explanation clearer to the reviewer, hoping that when I finally click on Submit in a few days time, I'll be able to just cut and paste it into the reviewer note.

Good idea. Another place for notes is the Personal Cache Note field in the description. You can edit the note at any time and use the content when submitting. If you forgot to add something important to the reviewer note, you can also edit it later.

[+The A-Team]

1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

Note that I was referring to editing the reviewer note, not the cache page. Now that's not possible as you don't get to create the reviewer note until you click Submit, then you have to compose it all on the fly. Not all reviewer notes are trivial, some require a lot of information like permissions, land zoning, puzzle explanations, descriptions and photos of the cache, GZ and its placement, etc.

You don't have to wait until the point of submission to create a reviewer note. If you go to submit a log on your unsubmitted listing, you can create a reviewer note and add whatever detail you need. When it comes time to submit, you can simply put something like "See other reviewer note" in the text box that you're presented with. I did this recently for a new cache of mine that required a long explanation of the cache and several photos, and it worked fine.

[+barefootjeff]

I was just about to submit my first cache after the new form was introduced, but when I went to paste my carefully worded Reviewer Note into the popup that appears when clicking on Submit for Review, I realised that this doesn't allow photos to be included. Our reviewer has stated in the past that he likes photos to be included with the reviewer note showing the hiding place, the cache in position and anything else that might be relevant so he can quickly see any issues that mightn't be apparent from the description, but is this practice now being discouraged?

For this cache, a D4 puzzle, my description of the puzzle solution relies on some images so I'm now going to have to create an additional reviewer note to include those. I can't help wondering if this new cache submission process just assumes everything is a pill bottle thrown under a bush on the side of the road.

[+Viajero Perdido]

You can add images to a log after submitting the log.

Well, with the classic interface anyway.  And I can't imagine Groundspeak making it not possible specifically for that one log type.

[+barefootjeff]

14 minutes ago, Viajero Perdido said:

You can add images to a log after submitting the log.

Well, with the classic interface anyway.  And I can't imagine Groundspeak making it not possible specifically for that one log type.

I'd like to be able to add images before submitting, in case the reviewer looks at it before I can pull the submission back out of the review queue to do the editing. About the only solution appears to be to create an initial reviewer note the old way before submitting, then, in the pop-up reviewer note, tell the reviewer to look at the other note. It all seems rather cumbersome and error-prone though.