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Release Notes (Website: Edit Cache Listing page) - December 5, 2017

252 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, niraD said:

Beware of making the interface work differently on your particular page from how it works everywhere else, and therefore from how the user expects it to work.

How did you know that I made it like that on my page? :lol:

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All these changes seem reasonably sensible except getting rid of the Related Web Page. I use this and I know many others do especially for puzzles, please reconsider

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37 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Except I've never seen a PET preform in this country (Australia) and have no idea how big one is. [...]

Some micro sized caches. PET Preform (click here) (aka Petling) to the right:

DSC_7938.JPG

Hans

Edited by HHL
added link
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30 minutes ago, HHL said:

Some micro sized caches. PET Preform (click here) (aka Petling) to the right:

DSC_7938.JPG

Hans

That looks like a specially made green plastic clone of a film canister. Is that really what it is?

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I've read the posts and see no mention of what really jumped out at me today. When making a new cache page we edit many, many times but submit only once. Therefore the default action at the bottom of the edit page should be either "Save" or "Save and Preview" but most definitely NOT "Submit for Review." Likewise, the default action at the top of the view page should be "Edit" and NOT "Submit for Review." You want the default (highlighted) actions to be the most common ones, not the ones you'll do only once.

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When I want to save my draft before submitting to review, there is no need to select  " I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement and the geocache hiding guidelines. "

That may seem minor problem but normally I edit the description about 100 times before submitting and selecting this unnecessarily so many time will make me unsatisfied.

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30 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

I've read the posts and see no mention of what really jumped out at me today. When making a new cache page we edit many, many times but submit only once. Therefore the default action at the bottom of the edit page should be either "Save" or "Save and Preview" but most definitely NOT "Submit for Review." Likewise, the default action at the top of the view page should be "Edit" and NOT "Submit for Review." You want the default (highlighted) actions to be the most common ones, not the ones you'll do only once.

I'd go one further and suggest that "Submit for Review" shouldn't be available on the Edit page but only on the cache view page, so that people have to see what their cache page will actually look like before submitting it.

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30 minutes ago, arisoft said:

When I want to save my draft before submitting to review, there is no need to select  " I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement and the geocache hiding guidelines. "

That may seem minor problem but normally I edit the description about 100 times before submitting and selecting this unnecessarily so many time will make me unsatisfied.

Well at least it's only one check box now, rather than two!

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28 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

I'd go one further and suggest that "Submit for Review" shouldn't be available on the Edit page but only on the cache view page, so that people have to see what their cache page will actually look like before submitting it.

That's a good idea. Hope the GS folks are reading this!

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18 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

Well at least it's only one check box now, rather than two!

The problem is that now you have to check them every time you want to save your draft. Before you had to check two check boxes only once.

Submitting directly from the editor is specially made for descriptionless power trailers. Instead of submit button there could be "save and preview on another tab" button.

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There is a blue box at the top of my archived caches now with my archival log in it.

I can no longer add images to my archived caches

Both of these changes seem to have occurred since 1Dec17; I see no mention of these changes here.

The image issue is annoying, now I will have to store them on non-circulating TB pages!

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4 hours ago, LivingInNarnia said:

Regarding wheelchair attributes: the attribute is only required for T1. A cache could potentially be wheelchair accessible at a higher terrain rating and that is up to the CO and reviewer to discuss if needed. See the guidelines here for more info: https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=97&pgid=82 Thanks for pointing out that edge case. 

Some time ago I tried to submit a cache with T1.5 and the wheelchair attribute but my reviewer disallowed it.  The situation was a flat accessible path to GZ, but the cache was 6ft off the ground.

Does this change mean that the wheelchair attribute can now be added to higher terrain caches?  T4 + Wheelchair attribute for a flat accessible path to the base of a tree with a T4 climb to the cache?

If so, that is great!

Edited by Gill & Tony
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All these changes are great! EXCEPT this one: "The Related Web Page field now only exists on caches that currently use that field. If a cache owner removes an existing Related Web Page, then the field will disappear."

This is awful. This feature was very useful for Wherigo links as well as hiding information for puzzle caches. Why on earth would they get rid of this? This means that one day if I need to change the "related webpage" for one of my puzzles or Wherigos and accidentally save the page after I've deleted the old link but not yet added the new one, the spot will disappear forever and in the case of puzzles, it would have to be archived as the puzzle would be non-functional. Please consider adding this feature back, at least for puzzle and Wherigo type caches.

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17 minutes ago, yellow.warbler said:

This is awful. This feature was very useful for Wherigo links as well as hiding information for puzzle caches. Why on earth would they get rid of this?

You can now add as many related page links to the description as you want. Only difference is that you have to position them yourself, wherever you want them. No real problem here. If you need help, how to do this, just ask on appropriate forum.

Edited by arisoft
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It was quite a surprice to bump into the "all new look" on the edit page, when I was starting on creating a new cache tonight.

Most of the changes, however, is for the better. I like that everything is on the same page unlike before, and the map with all waypoints is great (just by chance, it is a multi I'm about to create ;))

One thing that's NOT for the better, is that all the "new" things on the page pushes the edit text field further down the side. When I make a cache, I edit it lots, and lots of times, and it's almost always text that has to be edited. Not all the things that I have to scroll past :wacko:

A  re-arrange of the "items" would be very, very useful. :wub:

 

I agree with those that mentions the sizing of caches. From apple to shoebox?? I'm sure you can do better than that.

I also agree, that the buttons for submitting to review should be faded out and maybe only be available on the preview-side.

The "save AND preview" button is great. 

 

Question: Is the space for entering info at waypoints decreased? It kinda spoiled my intention of forcing info down peoples throat  ... And furthermore: Is it not possible to format the text in wp's? Not even linebreaks seems to work :( 

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I confess I have developed a "OMG" reflex during release announcements in recent years. But I am pleasantly surprised this time! The edit page looks great. I appreciate not having to go to a separate page for setting waypoints/attributes anymore. I like the way waypoints are handled and displayed on the map now. The choice of OSM is fine as well.

In fact I do not have anything serious to complain about. Yep, just the tooltips over attributes not displaying in FF 57.0.1 but that is a minor quirk and already being worked on. Thank you!

PS: an idea: I am looking closely at the map now. My virtual waypoints are identified by their 2-letter prefixes - why not do the same for other waypoint types? On my "B-17 going down" I have three parking waypoints and it would be nice if they were identified with their prefixes P1, PA and PB. I have also seen caches with several trailheads or reference points and their owners sure would like to distinguish between them on the map...

 

Edited by Pontiac_CZ
grammar
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5 hours ago, Michaelcycle said:

I can no longer add images to my archived caches

What was it good for?

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Personally I’m VERY disappointed with the whole new cache listing changes. I always create, then review the finished product, and finally Submit. But now I am not able to edit my newly created cache listing. Yes, I’ve checked the Conditions checkbox, clicked Save and Preview, and my changes are not reflected in the listing. I’ve submitted the cache. Then cancelled the submission, edited, saved and resubmitted - another three times. Now it’s in the Reviewer’s queue again and the listing does not reflect my changes. After 108 hides I am reticent to hide any more. This is SO FRUSTRATING!

Also why does an event have to be a T1? I’ve held events with D1/T4 in the past - on the summit of a mountain!

Edited by Phronimos
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7 minutes ago, Phronimos said:

Personally I’m VERY disappointed with the whole new cache listing changes. I always create, then review the finished product, and finally Submit. But now I am not able to edit my newly created cache listing. Yes, I’ve checked the Conditions checkbox, clicked Save and Preview, and my changes are not reflected in the listing. I’ve submitted the cache. Then cancelled the submission, edited, saved and resubmitted - another three times. Now it’s in the Reviewer’s queue again and the listing does not reflect my changes. After 108 hides I am reticent to hide any more. This is SO FRUSTRATING!

In this very minute I've edited twice, and it works fine for me. 

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12 minutes ago, Phronimos said:

[...] Also why does an event have to be a T1? I’ve held events with D1/T4 in the past - on the summit of a mountain!

Please read the opening post again and probably more carefully. Thanks

Hans

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7 hours ago, Michaelcycle said:

There is a blue box at the top of my archived caches now with my archival log in it.

I can no longer add images to my archived caches

Both of these changes seem to have occurred since 1Dec17; I see no mention of these changes here.

The image issue is annoying, now I will have to store them on non-circulating TB pages!

If it helps, you can still add them to a log on your archived caches.   That is what I do, mainly when creating a puzzle cache and I want to have an image on the cache page of a new cache  (though the link may not be obvious to find).    

Edited by redsox_mark
typo
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14 hours ago, Geocaching HQ said:

The Admin Tools no longer link to separate pages to edit attributes, edit waypoints, and upload images, since you can make those changes on the Edit Cache Listing page. In addition, the links “Watch” and “Add to List” are available only after publication, because we found that they were not used by COs prior to publication . 

It is funny. I'd like to use "Add to List" function prior publication during years but this functionality haven't never worked. "Watch" the same way (for occassions I made a betatest using temporarily adoption and tried to watch the cache from the point of publication.)

So I've never used it. But I wanted.

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when, oh when instead creating of new “fireworks" and "improvements", which in many cases only apparently enhance the functionality of the site geocaching.com, you implement something that is more needed for users? I am talking about visual editor for editing descriptions for existing caches (also unpublished stub), not just newly created ones ! We have been waiting for it for over 6 years !!!

 

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14 hours ago, LivingInNarnia said:

Thank you! The Related Web Page option was removed from the Cache Submission Process a few years ago. And now, it is removed from future listings (only old listings that already had that field filled out will show up). The cartridge link and information related to puzzles should be provided in the description.  (It should also be noted that the related web page is already not displayed in the mobile app). 

This simply isn't true. I created a new puzzle cache last month and it has a related web page link where the solution is recorded. So the related web page option could not have been removed "a few years ago". 

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4 hours ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

What was it good for?

Adding images to archived caches allowed uploading of images to be used in live puzzle caches. Where you didn't want the image to show in the gallery. 

A useful alternative that could be added would be to allow the image uploaded to the cache page to be marked as not visible in gallery. ie: a Show in Gallery option default yes.

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9 hours ago, arisoft said:

You can now add as many related page links to the description as you want. Only difference is that you have to position them yourself, wherever you want them. No real problem here. If you need help, how to do this, just ask on appropriate forum.

You could always "add as many related page links to the description as you want" so not sure why you are saying you can "now" do that. The loss of the related webpage link means the loss of a method of hiding puzzle data, and the loss of a useful place to link background info the user might find helpful without cluttering up the main body of the text. 

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11 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

Adding images to archived caches allowed uploading of images to be used in live puzzle caches. Where you didn't want the image to show in the gallery.

I am using an unpublished cache for the same purpose. By the way, didn't you know that you can delete images from the gallery and they are still visible?

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11 minutes ago, arisoft said:

I am using an unpublished cache for the same purpose. By the way, didn't you know that you can delete images from the gallery and they are still visible?

I did know that but deleted items do have a limited lifespan on AWS so you cannot rely on the images staying there indefinitely, whereas you can rely on that if it's in an alternate cache. A far cleaner option than either of these workarounds would be a hidden image option.

Edited by ShammyLevva
typo
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10 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

You could always "add as many related page links to the description as you want" so not sure why you are saying you can "now" do that.

Just to raise your attention. ;)

10 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

The loss of the related webpage link means the loss of a method of hiding puzzle data, and the loss of a useful place to link background info the user might find helpful without cluttering up the main body of the text. 

I think your arguments are in conflict with themself. Are you going to publish or hide information in related web page link?

And you still can position then link wherever you want. If you need help, how to do this, just ask on appropriate forum.

 

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9 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

I did know that but deleted items do have a limited lifespan on AWS

Please tell me more about this - with references - of course.

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8 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Just to raise your attention. ;)

I think your arguments are in conflict with themself. Are you going to publish or hide information in related web page link?

And you still can position then link wherever you want. If you need help, how to do this, just ask on appropriate forum.

 

I'm a programmer of some 30 years experience there really is no need for the condescending comment re: needing help on how to do this.

The arguments are not in conflict. For a puzzle cache you may wish to use the related website as a link to useful info but hide coordinates in the link (tempted to say if you need help on how to do this just ask in an appropriate forum but that wouldn't be right :)). For a regular cache you may wish to have a related webpage to highlight background info. For instance I did a series on local spots linked to scientific figures and used the related webpage to link to a website with background history on those people and others I'd not done caches for. The related info was additional information not directly related to the cache so no use on the website. 

So different uses of the field for different caches, no conflict in what I said at all.

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12 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Please tell me more about this - with references - of course.

The information would be in the terms of reference of the agreement between Groundspeak and Amazon. I have similar Service Level Agreement documentation for my own site part of that document determines the lifespan of deleted content. I am not party to the agreement between Groundspeak and Amazon but I'd be surprised if they removed such a standard clause from the agreement. 

Oh and no, before you ask, I'm not going to provide you with a commercially sensitive SLA agreement between my company and Amazon.

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9 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

I'm a programmer of some 30 years experience there really is no need for the condescending comment re: needing help on how to do this.

I was sure thay you knew this so I just offered this opportunity, in the case you didn't know, how to do this. So - actually you have no problems at all?

Now  it is time to find  an another trick for you puzzle caches.

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12 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

The information would be in the terms of reference of the agreement between Groundspeak and Amazon.

All links to Amazon will drop at some day when this service is terminated. Use links to Groundspeak's server as I do.. And keep your backups anyway ;)

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12 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Now  it is time to find  an another trick for you puzzle caches.

The concern is not so much that this trick is no longer available but the suggestion in the OP that the feature was being removed from the website, having already been removed from the App. This then suggests that when the cache page finally gets the makeover treatment, that the rest of the website is undergoing, that this field might also be removed. Given the inaccurate confusing responses (eg: suggesting it hadn't been possible to use the field for years) it would be useful to get some clarity on intentions from them.

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12 minutes ago, arisoft said:

All links to Amazon will drop at some day when this service is terminated. Use links to Groundspeak's server as I do.. And keep your backups anyway ;)

Can you give an example of a link to groundspeaks server that doesn't break when viewed on different devices please. The hard redirect to Amazon doesn't always render in all the apps.

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9 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

Given the inaccurate confusing responses (eg: suggesting it hadn't been possible to use the field for years) it would be useful to get some clarity on intentions from them.

I agree. I have wished to get rid of both the related web link and short description and now my wish has come true. Despite previous streamlied changes which were not so succesfull as hoped I am very satisfied for this. The only problem I have this far is the more awkward way to preview changes.

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16 minutes ago, ShammyLevva said:

Can you give an example of a link to groundspeaks server that doesn't break when viewed on different devices please. The hard redirect to Amazon doesn't always render in all the apps.

This is quite new image from my own cache: https://img.geocaching.com/cache/b1be56b9-bf98-4960-8733-806fba932d4e.jpg

If some device can not open this image it is not my problem.

Edited by arisoft
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3 hours ago, redsox_mark said:

If it helps, you can still add them to a log on your archived caches.   That is what I do, mainly when creating a puzzle cache and I want to have an image on the cache page of a new cache  (though the link may not be obvious to find).    

Yes, I have done that as well, thanks. 

The question remains, Geocaching HQ, why were these changes to archived cache pages not announced??

(again, unless I missed the announcement)

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10 hours ago, Gill & Tony said:

Some time ago I tried to submit a cache with T1.5 and the wheelchair attribute but my reviewer disallowed it.  The situation was a flat accessible path to GZ, but the cache was 6ft off the ground.

Does this change mean that the wheelchair attribute can now be added to higher terrain caches?  T4 + Wheelchair attribute for a flat accessible path to the base of a tree with a T4 climb to the cache?

If so, that is great!

 

Of course, not in your example. What would be great about it?

But there are many cache designs, when T1.5 (or even T3) and Wheelchair accessible IS appropriate. Imagine 10 kms long multicache, all on flat, accessible path. I would rate it T3 because of the lenght AND Wheelchair attribute, because person on wheelchair can make it and reach the cache on his own. It will just requires more time and energy.

In case it would be denied by reviewer, I would try to explain him cache design better, or submit an appeal.

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With all Events listed as D1, nice decision btw, it is impossible to fulfill some challenge caches with the challenge of having a complete D-matrix with events.

What about these challenge caches ?

Greets

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14 minutes ago, Red_family said:

With all Events listed as D1, nice decision btw, it is impossible to fulfill some challenge caches with the challenge of having a complete D-matrix with events.

What about these challenge caches ?

Greets

It should never be difficult to find an event. They are open to all at the coords.

So there should not be an event with a D5, or challenges that require it.  In my opinion.

Edited by BlueRajah
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28 minutes ago, Red_family said:

With all Events listed as D1, nice decision btw, it is impossible to fulfill some challenge caches with the challenge of having a complete D-matrix with events.

What about these challenge caches ?

Greets

These challenge caches shoud be archived.

Hans

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12 hours ago, arisoft said:

You can now add as many related page links to the description as you want. Only difference is that you have to position them yourself, wherever you want them. No real problem here. If you need help, how to do this, just ask on appropriate forum.

I have designed puzzles that *specifically* hid information in the "related webpage link".  Posting links straight on the cache page makes it very obvious that I am linking to something and therefore gives away half the puzzle!  The point of hiding it in that particular link was that often people didn't notice it or think to click on it until they examined the puzzle page very carefully.  I know how to use html to create links in my cache description - I'm just saying it would ruin some of my current puzzles to do so.

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I noticed another problem with the new changes.  The attributes are just symbols instead of words that tell you what they are!  I have a hard time interpreting visuals (for example the two people on snowshoes vs skis - how on earth is one to tell the difference, especially if you are a new cacher and not familiar with the available attributes?)  Many of the icons are not self-explanatory (e.g. the Special Tool one or the Kid-friendly one) so without the ability to hover over the attribute and see the text description OR have a text description right beside it, it's very challenging to use this new attribute adding feature. 

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13 minutes ago, yellow.warbler said:

I know how to use html to create links in my cache description - I'm just saying it would ruin some of my current puzzles to do so.

Current puzzle? Nope. They won't change since the field is in use.

Future puzzles? Yep. Guess that's not a puzzle style option any more.

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Just noticed another issue.  I had already added a Reviwer Note to my cache but when I went to hit "submit for review" a pop-up appears forcing me to add ANOTHER reviewer note, instead of picking up that I've already done so, like the old system did.  This bug should be fixed...

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33 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Current puzzle? Nope. They won't change since the field is in use.

Future puzzles? Yep. Guess that's not a puzzle style option any more.

If I happen to accidentally delete the link to a Related Webpage on an old puzzle, and forget to input the new link (which I am apt to do because I am very spacey), then that field would be removed from my old puzzle forever and I'd have no way to fix my mistake and put the Related Webpage back.  They should at least give a warning when you are about to do that on an old cache but I highly doubt they will.

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3 hours ago, ShammyLevva said:

The information would be in the terms of reference of the agreement between Groundspeak and Amazon. I have similar Service Level Agreement documentation for my own site part of that document determines the lifespan of deleted content. I am not party to the agreement between Groundspeak and Amazon but I'd be surprised if they removed such a standard clause from the agreement. 

Oh and no, before you ask, I'm not going to provide you with a commercially sensitive SLA agreement between my company and Amazon.

Geocaching.com stores images in Amazon S3, and once the object is deleted there, it's gone. So since the image is still there after deleting it from the gallery, geocaching.com clearly doesn't delete objects in S3. So it should stay there as long as Groundspeak keeps paying Amazon...

Edit: I know some people upload photos of the log to archived caches/events. At least they did until now... ;)

Edited by thomfre
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18 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Except I've never seen a PET preform in this country (Australia) and have no idea how big one is. Whatever description is used, it has to be something easily recognised globally. I prefer the definitions in litres as they're unambiguous, but then I live in a metric country and have a good intuitive feel of how big a litre is.

Interesting.  They were pretty common throughout Europe when I left in 2009, and I've noticed them more and more in the USA over the past few years.

What's the typical micro of choice in Australia?

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