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Release Notes (Website: Dashboard, owner maintenance tool) - November 21, 2017

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Release Notes (Website: Dashboard, owner maintenance tool) - November 21, 2017

Today’s release includes the addition of an owner maintenance tool and an addition to the Recently Viewed feed on the updated Dashboard.

Cache owners will now see a new widget on top of their Dashboard if one or more of their geocaches needs attention as determined by a low Health Score. If there is more than one cache that needs help, up to 5 caches will be displayed in the tool with the option to ‘View all’.

The cache owner can use the tool to perform several actions:

  • Click through to the caches, and read recent logs to find out more about their current state
  • Add caches to a List (Premium member feature)
  • After fixing the problem with the cache, they can log maintenance

This new tool should help to make it easier for cache owners to keep track and maintain their geocaches. Something the entire geocaching community will benefit from. 

Additionally, updates have been made to the Recently Viewed feed, which include:

  • Small visual changes
  • Ability to add geocaches to a List (Premium member feature)

Dave W. (HiddenGnome) from HQ’s Web Team is watching this thread to answer questions whenever possible.
 

Any posts in this thread should relate to features in this release. Comments unrelated to the release may be removed. Please direct unrelated comments to other appropriate threads. Thanks!
 

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24 minutes ago, Geocaching HQ said:

[...] Additionally, updates have been made to the Recently Viewed feed, which include:

  • Small visual changes
  • Ability to add geocaches to a List (Premium member feature) [...]

Unfortunately the "View All" button links to an old list view without the add to list feature.

Hans

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I have a disabed cache, but apparently it doesn't hava a low health score, as it is not shown. A togglebutton to show / hide your disabled caches in this tool regardless of the healthscore would be nice.

For example, if someone is aware that their caches need maintenance and have consequently disabled them, some people would like to be reminded of this, whilst others might prefer not to.

 

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19 minutes ago, pingurus said:

I have a disabed cache, but apparently it doesn't hava a low health score, as it is not shown. A togglebutton to show / hide your disabled caches in this tool regardless of the healthscore would be nice.

The old cache maintenance tool show also disabled caches: https://www.geocaching.com/hide/cachemaintenance.aspx

I would like to see all those features in the new tool. The new tool didn't show any caches which is not correct.

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I feel it is time for you to start publishing the Health Score of each cache as well as the overall Health Score of every hider.

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All good for someone who needs a helping hand, how about a thought for the cache owner when it's the cacher who creates the problem. I have a few caches that get DNF's and every time one gets 3 DNF's I get an email meaning another trip out to find there is nothing wrong. My health score is going to be bad even more now.

I believe it was this that gave away a new hide I had when I was forced to check the stages and was probably seen.

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7 minutes ago, wazza9 said:

All good for someone who needs a helping hand, how about a thought for the cache owner when it's the cacher who creates the problem. I have a few caches that get DNF's and every time one gets 3 DNF's I get an email meaning another trip out to find there is nothing wrong. My health score is going to be bad even more now.

Log an OM, saying you checked on the cache and all is well - from all I've heard, that will negate the DNF's and improve your CHS. Why is your CHS already bad? (Implied by the comment I bolded above).

As a (fairly new) cache owner, I go check after one DNF, and recently, I just did a check on 3 of my hides that were in a fire evacuation zone - no DNF's on any of them, ever, (though they've only been in play a few months) but I wanted to check them myself, and then I logged OM on each letting OTHERS know that all was well.

17 minutes ago, wazza9 said:

I believe it was this that gave away a new hide I had when I was forced to check the stages and was probably seen.

Someone logged a DNF and then watched for you to go check up on the cache?  This seems a bit extreme ... 

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How do I remove a cache from the "may need help list"? I have caches that are fine, but high D/T so get DNFs. I've logged OM but still they appear on the list.

For example, I have a T4.5 cache with tree climb attribute yet people still get there and log a DNF without even attempting to climb. What else can I do? I've had to delete their DNF logs and post an OM but it still says I need to maintain the cache.

This CHS seems to really discourage hiding high D/T caches. It appears to be poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented.

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I have a cache near a historic Wreck Bell, just to point it out. GZ is about 30 meters away from the bell across the street.

I have had 4 DNFs by morons who: 1. climbed all over the obvious fragile structure, taking their kids to the top (and posted a photo), 2. logged a dnf because they did not want to climb on the structure, 3. Decided the structure was" suss and creepy to i gave up", and 4. " We found the bell, mannequin and trains but no cache"

This is all on a T1.5/D1.5 cache that is not near the bell!

For these 4 DNFs Groundspeak decided that the cache had bad health and sent me a needs maintenance.

This is going to help me keep my caches better???

I have decided to start archiving my caches when I recieve stupid messages for my assistance from Groundspeak!

Rob.

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So, if I get this right.

1. Geocaching will punish the cache hider because I have some caches out in the boonies where few cachers go.  Some of my caches have not been found for years and this is now my fault? 

2. You are going to punish the cache hider that hides a difficult cache that is hard to find on purpose to challenge those cachers that like that type of cache and want the challenge of finding a difficult cache.  

3. A cacher can't find my cache just because they are too lazy to go that extra little bit and they log a DNF.  What about punishing the cacher instead of the hider for taking the valuable time of both the hider and geocaching volunteers for labeling a cache wrong with the DNF or their Needs Maintenance.  Also do you take into account how many caches that the DNF logger has actually found before blaming the hider?

4. Difficulty and Terrain - Again you will punish the cache hider for placing a difficult cache.  

I don't get it - I thought that there were all types of caches and all types of difficulties so a person could choose what type they wanted to find.  It made it fun because it became a hobby that all could do because there was something for everyone.  It looks like you are encouraging more easy finds, simple pills bottles on the side of the road.  What about all the creative cachers out there that have put a lot of thought into their caches and made them challenging and fun.  A few cachers are going to ruin it for all of us and fewer cachers are going to want to create new hides.  

I have been caregiving for my 93 yr old dad for over a year and a half that was on hospice while my husband was also going through some medical issues. My dad passed away last week. We got to our caches when we could but with this new system, you are not taking into account the people that hide caches.  I am going to be gradually adopting out some caches and archieving others.  I am sorry to new cachers that won't be able to find them.  

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I have been hoping for a list that would show the CO his caches with NM flag set.  The CO would get alerted, do the maintenance, post an OM log and get rid off the item from the list, then move to another one until he takes care of all his caches in need. His motivation would be to clear the list and have it not displayed.

After a long time we got this new tool based on the Cache Health Score which the CO cannot directly affect, not even with a single OM log as I read above... :-(

Edited by Pontiac_CZ
clarifiyng
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I too have one particular cache that is difficult to find and has about an equal number of "finds" and "DNFs".  I check on this one relatively frequently, but should not have to run out there every time I get 3 DNF's in a row on it.  It is in a spot that is not likely to be muggled and has been in its spot everytime I have checked on it.  So, do I just ignore the "friendly reminder" or post a fake Owners Maintenance to get rid of the reminder?  On other caches of mine, I know there probably is a problem if I see a couple of DNF's in a row,  and I get out to check on them.  As others have noted this system will discourage hiders from placing difficult to find caches.  I guess a reminder would be fine if the cache owner (knowing the real situation - not some assessment based on an algorithm) could decide if there really is likely to be a problem and then act on it, or simply delete the reminder.

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Here we go again... GS needs to explain the CHS better. Far too many people look at this email notification or "score" as punishment, as if there's a human behind the decision to rate a cache as problematic or "not good".  That's the impression it gives, and that's not good.

If you have a string of DNFs on a cache you know is good, you're not being "punished" by receiving an email nudging you that an algorithm thinks there may be something wrong with it. It doesn't parse the log contents. It doesn't know your physical cache condition.  If you know it's fine, ignore it, or post an OM on the cache saying it's fine; done (yep you may need to keep doing that, unless you raise the difficulty of your cache).  Receiving the email does not put your cache on any public list of shame, nor does it set it on its way to reviewer disabling and archival. That only happens after a human (the reviewer) looks over your cache situation and makes a judgement call - in the case of a string of DNFs from people certainly not actually making good attempts to find the cache, almost certainly the reviewer won't see a problem to be forcefully dealt with.

The email is innocuous. The CHS is an automated algorithm easily assuaged by owner activity.  Groundspeak is [reportedly] consistently adjusting the algorithm to attempt to reduce false positives.  The sky is not falling.

Edited by thebruce0
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47 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

The email is innocuous. The CHS is an automated algorithm easily assuaged by owner activity.  Groundspeak is [reportedly] consistently adjusting the algorithm to attempt to reduce false positives.  The sky is not falling.

When it was an Email you could ignore it, and it soon became a distant memory. Now there's a reminder widget on your dashboard that is permanently stuck there as a reminder.

From -KROP-'s post it seems it isn't easy to get rid of that reminder (he has posted an OM log and the reminder is still there), and ignoring it is now not such a good idea because once you get used to ignoring them it could become easy to miss genuine alerts.

 

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39 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

When it was an Email you could ignore it, and it soon became a distant memory. Now there's a reminder widget on your dashboard that is permanently stuck there as a reminder.

From -KROP-'s post it seems it isn't easy to get rid of that reminder (he has posted an OM log and the reminder is still there), and ignoring it is now not such a good idea because once you get used to ignoring them it could become easy to miss genuine alerts.

And that's all more of a practical application issue - Groundspeak may well adjust the implementation of the Dashboard tool to be consistent with the scores.  I looked at the dashboard and couldn't find it at all. I've got a couple disabled and whatnot so I was sure to see something there.  So, my guess is there are still some kinks to work out. But that's not a problem with the CHS itself, that's a problem with the "new" Dashboard tool; and we all know how perfect initial rollouts of new features from Groundspeak are :ph34r::P

You can still ignore the email.  That doesn't improve the cache's health score, but it doesn't "punish" you when it comes to reviewer action against your cache.  (well, insofar as the score isn't used for "rewarding" as well for other things)

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27 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

You can still ignore the email.  That doesn't improve the cache's health score, but it doesn't "punish" you when it comes to reviewer action against your cache. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean. We've been told reviewers are required to use the health score to assess cache quality, so if the score says your cache has a problem and you don't do anything about it, the reviewer's going to take action, so I'm not sure in what sense that's not punishment.

My take is that this new dashboard feature is just another step in moving away from human assessment such as whether the maintenance flag is set towards automated quality control driven by the health score.

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29 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean. We've been told reviewers are required to use the health score to assess cache quality, so if the score says your cache has a problem and you don't do anything about it, the reviewer's going to take action, so I'm not sure in what sense that's not punishment.

No, my understanding from reviewer posts regarding the CHS is this: The score is visible to reviewers, who use it to decide whether to take action.  If there's no problem with the cache after they choose to look over it, the reviewer might resort to a little nudge contact saying "hey, you might want to post an OM log to improve your cache health [or: to let the public know there's nothing wrong despite there being a string of DNFs]" or something similar.  That's not the same as a canned "Reviewer Disabled - It looks like there's something wrong with your cache. Fix it now."  Of course, who knows what a reviewer might decide, they're all different.  The point is this: the CHS merely brings to reviewer attention cache listings that the algorithm thinks might have a problem, after having shot off an email to its owner.  Every reviewer can then decide to look at the cache and take action or not.  I never got the impression from reviewer comments in this forum that they are required to take forceful action against every single cache that drops below the threshold which prompts an email.  So no, it's not a punishment. It's a little blinking red light in the corner that can be turned off or ignored until it becomes an actual problem, if it ever does.  Of course, some reviewers might not like that annoying little blinking light...

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19 hours ago, pingurus said:

I have a disabed cache, but apparently it doesn't hava a low health score, as it is not shown. A togglebutton to show / hide your disabled caches in this tool regardless of the healthscore would be nice.

I have 4 published caches, and 4 unpublished caches (currently disabled as I polish the descriptions and get the hides ready).  Very low #'s as compared to most around here, but I'm just getting started!!  My dashboard shows nothing - yet whenever I go to create a new cache, I get a warning that I have caches that may need maintenance.  Maybe those caches have no scorre yet as they are unpublished, so they don't hit the radar for the new tool?  They are on the dashboard on the left side as Unpublished ...

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58 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

And that's all more of a practical application issue - Groundspeak may well adjust the implementation of the Dashboard tool to be consistent with the scores.  I looked at the dashboard and couldn't find it at all. I've got a couple disabled and whatnot so I was sure to see something there.  So, my guess is there are still some kinks to work out. But that's not a problem with the CHS itself, that's a problem with the "new" Dashboard tool; and we all know how perfect initial rollouts of new features from Groundspeak are :ph34r::P

As the team lead overseeing the Dashboard I take offense at your flippant attitude towards the people that are trying to improve the website and experience for players. We have had 1-2 people working on updates for the Dashboard at a time while also trying to fix bugs and make other improvements across the site. I won't say that releases are perfect, but we also try very hard to respond to issues and fix them quickly - sometimes with releases going out multiple times a day to get the changes to you immediately. The intention is never to use the community as a stand-in for a QA department, but the truth of the matter is that there are a lot of users with many different situations and expectations and we can't test them all - otherwise it would take 6+ months to release the smallest of features. So yes there might be issues when something is rolled out, but I would kindly ask that you cut the team some slack, let us know if something isn't working the way you would expect, and help us to improve it. Thank you!

In the case of the owner maintenance tool we do not display disabled caches. The intention of the tool is to let owners know that something might be wrong that they might not have been aware of. An owner is likely aware that their cache is disabled. That isn't to say that the intention of the tool can't change, but that is the current goal.

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14 hours ago, -KROP- said:

How do I remove a cache from the "may need help list"? I have caches that are fine, but high D/T so get DNFs. I've logged OM but still they appear on the list.

For example, I have a T4.5 cache with tree climb attribute yet people still get there and log a DNF without even attempting to climb. What else can I do? I've had to delete their DNF logs and post an OM but it still says I need to maintain the cache.

This CHS seems to really discourage hiding high D/T caches. It appears to be poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented.

The health score is calculated on a daily basis. Actions that you take today will be factored into the score the following day. There are factors that limit our ability to re-calculate the heath score in real time, but we are looking at a couple of options that will help to make the owner maintenance tool more responsive and reflect your actions with less of a delay.

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18 minutes ago, HiddenGnome said:

In the case of the owner maintenance tool we do not display disabled caches. The intention of the tool is to let owners know that something might be wrong that they might not have been aware of. An owner is likely aware that their cache is disabled. That isn't to say that the intention of the tool can't change, but that is the current goal.

I don't understand this statement.  As demonstrated in the attached screenshot, the only owned cache showing for me is a disabled cache.  I know it needs a visit, and my friendly local reviewer reminded me of that recently.

 

Owner Tool.JPG

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10 minutes ago, The Leprechauns said:

I don't understand this statement.  As demonstrated in the attached screenshot, the only owned cache showing for me is a disabled cache.  I know it needs a visit, and my friendly local reviewer reminded me of that recently.

 

Owner Tool.JPG

Sorry, what I should have said is that we do not show caches only because they have been disabled. If the cache was experiencing issues before it was disabled then that might cause it to get flagged. However, disabling an otherwise healthy cache would not cause it to be displayed in the owner maintenance widget.

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34 minutes ago, HiddenGnome said:

As the team lead overseeing the Dashboard I take offense at your flippant attitude towards the people that are trying to improve the website and experience for players.

Apologies - I didn't think my comment would be taken as seriously as it was. I am a developer myself, and I was merely making an observation; quite often there are updates rolled out and responses with issues (which are quite often corrected almost immediately) are fairly common. I don't envy your task - and I greatly appreciate the work you do put in, and as a developer I know the stress that can come with rolling out new code/product and finding critical feedback that wasn't expected. I was not intending to insult, but rather also making a commentary on the often overly-critical response from the community (thus the :ph34r:).  You should know I'm quite often responding in defense of the GS developers in these forums. ;)  I definitely appreciate that there is a more active and communicative presence in these release notes threads!

 

The main point to my comment: I have listings I would have expected to see on my dashboard in the new widget (not that I'm complaining that they're not there), amongst other reports.  So it seems like it's not quite doing precisely what it was intended, yet. Feedback! :)

Edited by thebruce0
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5 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Apologies - I didn't think my comment would be taken as seriously as it was. I am a developer myself, and I was merely making an observation; quite often there are updates rolled out and the response with issues (which are quite often corrected almost immediately) is fairly common. I don't envy your task - and I greatly appreciate the work you do put in, and as a developer I know the stress that can come with rolling out new code/product and finding critical feedback that wasn't expected. I was not intending to insult, but rather also making a commentary on the often overly-critical response from the community (thus the :ph34r:).  You should know I'm quite often responding in defense of the GS developers in these forums. ;)  I definitely appreciate that there is a more active and communicative presence in these release notes threads!

 

The main point to my comment: I have listings I would have expected to see on my dashboard in the new widget (not that I'm complaining that they're not there), and there are reports that disabled caches are being displayed (eg The Leprechauns' post).  So it seems like it's not quite doing precisely what it was intended, yet. Feedback! :)

Thank you for the clarification and I appreciate that you come from a perspective of a fellow developer. Sometimes it is hard to parse the well intentioned, critical comments (which I whole heartedly welcome!) from the trolls (that is not pointed at your comments, just in general) so if I came off a little strong I apologize. I think it is safe to say that we all want what is best for geocaching even though what that is differs sometimes :P

I understand that there are some misconceptions about the health score and how it is calculated and perhaps more so how it is being used. I am not going to go into the details of the algorithm (I haven't had enough coffee yet to properly explain it), but the health score has always been intended as a tool and not a replacement for a human decision maker. We have been making improvements to the score and working to reduce the false positives, but we know that it isn't fool proof. And how could it be when someone could mistakenly post a DNF instead of a Found It. Any human looking at that log would realize that that message says "TFTC" and understand what the player intended. We do not use sentiment or keyword analysis in the algorithm (not to say we didn't think about it) so we rely on humans to understand what another human probably meant. The system will continue to improve, but humans make up a very important part of that system.

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2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

You can still ignore the email.

It would be nice if the email said that it could be ignored. Or if it suggested some other course of action when the CO thinks the email was sent in error.

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19 minutes ago, niraD said:

It would be nice if the email said that it could be ignored. Or if it suggested some other course of action when the CO thinks the email was sent in error.

I don't think the email should be ignored because something about the recent activity has been flagged as unusual, but it would be great if the system had the ability to factor in an outside set of criteria if a CO thinks there was a mistake. We are not at the point of having a system that "learns" or adapts itself so it would still have to follow a set defined rules, but there is always areas where we can improve. And just to be clear, while I agree that additional mechanisms would be great it likely will not be anything that happens immediately.

On an unrelated note - I just realized that your username is your IRL name spelled backwards :lol:

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1 hour ago, HiddenGnome said:

As the team lead overseeing the Dashboard I take offense at your flippant attitude towards the people that are trying to improve the website and experience for players. 

Woah, stop right there.

I was a developer of the vBulletin Forum software package for ~13 years. The very software that inspired the software package that this Forum is running on. I have a lot of experience in the arena of customer "feedback" left on forums. You need to take a step back, put your armor on, and think before hitting the Enter key on your keyboard.

You are in a position where you, your team, your work, is going to be constantly criticized. This will happen regardless of how much faith and effort you have put forth. The customer, for the most part, doesn't care. They only want what they want, not what may be best for all. If you are going to put yourself in here, don't only do it when you feel the need to defend yourself. It looks bad when the only communication from up high comes from a place of defense.

I understand why you wouldn't want to get into the details of the health score. If you open that can, everyone is going to chime in, telling you how it should work. Again, I know from experience what happens when you open the floor to the customers, allowing them to get there hand in, dictating how and when this or that feature is going to be implemented.

We all have opinions of Groundspeak, some feel Groundspeak is flippant at times with their care for the game in the ways that we find important. It is a two way street, you need to recognize that and accept the criticisms, valid or not. Anyone using this forum cares about Geocaching more than most.

Defend your position, your work, but don't do in a way that invalidates what we feel are problems with the system.

I know, again, that if any of you lackeys feel like it is time to converse with us, you need to follow up with what you started. If you're going to throw something out there about the coordinates checker, don't then go completely silent on what many feel are problems with it. After a spell, take a moment to address the issues and say either, that's that, or we are going to change it in <timeframe here>.

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1 hour ago, HiddenGnome said:

In the case of the owner maintenance tool we do not display disabled caches. The intention of the tool is to let owners know that something might be wrong that they might not have been aware of. An owner is likely aware that their cache is disabled. That isn't to say that the intention of the tool can't change, but that is the current goal.

Ok, this tool is meant only for cache owners who neglected their duties. Will it show the disabled cache in the case the CO has forgotten to enable it and the reviewer is about to send a reviewers note because this failure?

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6 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Ok, this tool is meant only for cache owners who neglected their duties. Will it show the disabled cache in the case the CO has forgotten to enable it and the reviewer is about to send a reviewers note because this failure?

We have approached the Dashboard as a place to get a quick view into your version of geocaching. That could be your recently activity, the health of your caches, or events in your area. Ideally each of these "summaries" would also have a more detailed page that allows you to get more information and dig deeper. There is certainly a valid argument for presenting information on the Dashboard related to disabled caches that should be investigated further.

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19 minutes ago, fbingha said:

Woah, stop right there.

I was a developer of the vBulletin Forum software package for ~13 years. The very software that inspired the software package that this Forum is running on. I have a lot of experience in the arena of customer "feedback" left on forums. You need to take a step back, put your armor on, and think before hitting the Enter key on your keyboard.

You are in a position where you, your team, your work, is going to be constantly criticized. This will happen regardless of how much faith and effort you have put forth. The customer, for the most part, doesn't care. They only want what they want, not what may be best for all. If you are going to put yourself in here, don't only do it when you feel the need to defend yourself. It looks bad when the only communication from up high comes from a place of defense.

I understand why you wouldn't want to get into the details of the health score. If you open that can, everyone is going to chime in, telling you how it should work. Again, I know from experience what happens when you open the floor to the customers, allowing them to get there hand in, dictating how and when this or that feature is going to be implemented.

We all have opinions of Groundspeak, some feel Groundspeak is flippant at times with their care for the game in the ways that we find important. It is a two way street, you need to recognize that and accept the criticisms, valid or not. Anyone using this forum cares about Geocaching more than most.

Defend your position, your work, but don't do in a way that invalidates what we feel are problems with the system.

I know, again, that if any of you lackeys feel like it is time to converse with us, you need to follow up with what you started. If you're going to throw something out there about the coordinates checker, don't then go completely silent on what many feel are problems with it. After a spell, take a moment to address the issues and say either, that's that, or we are going to change it in <timeframe here>.

I accept that criticism and acknowledge that I jumped in before I had my coffee this morning (as I tried to express in my follow-up to TheBruce0). Everyone who is part of the geocaching community (which includes lackeys) is passionate about the game and about how they would want to interact with the game. On top of that everyone who works at HQ is passionate about the work that we are doing to support the passions of the community and we take pride in the work that we do.

I don't think that it should be necessary to "put your armor on" every time a lackey wants to interact with the community. I have been doing this long enough to know that you have to have a thick skin when you interact with a community as passionate as ours. Sometimes the feedback is valid, sometimes not; at the end of the day I would hope that we can be respectful to each other in order to find some common ground. I understand that people feel strongly about what HQ has or hasn't done in the past and I agree that we have likely come across as flippant in the past with releasing features and walking away. My team is working to change that by being in the forums more, talking with the community to understand what people want and then finding a way to make it so. It is an evolving process and we won't always get it right, but I am trying to be more transparent about our processes and decisions. Hopefully the community will help us understand what can be different and we'll do better the next time :D

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

It would be nice if the email said that it could be ignored.

If I recall, the email basically says, you can do this, or you can do that.

It fails to mention a third option that I think is perfectly valid: You can consider the situation, and decide no action is needed.  That text should really be added.

(I think this came up in the discussion of a CO who was sent up a mountain (a full-size Canadian mountain) on the basis of a single DNF.  A reading of that DNF log would've suggested: wait.)

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Yep and that discussion was hashed out deeply in the CHS thread (perhaps we should continue that topic back in that thread rather than here).

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Hi,

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but 2 of my caches are reported with a NM. 

But as you see in this printscreen I don't have a message above my 'recently viewed'.

I'm also having problems with when someone gave me a FP, normally I should see it on my dashboard but nothing is show.

Is this a bug just for my account or am I doing something wrong.

Thanks

 

Dashboard.JPG

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13 minutes ago, EveRan2013 said:

Hi,

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but 2 of my caches are reported with a NM. 

But as you see in this printscreen I don't have a message above my 'recently viewed'.

I'm also having problems with when someone gave me a FP, normally I should see it on my dashboard but nothing is show.

Is this a bug just for my account or am I doing something wrong.

Thanks

It looks like both of the NM logs were posted today. It can take up to 24 hours before actions on a geocache (including a NM log) are factored in which is why those geocaches are not showing up as needing attention at the moment. Thank you for being so responsive to NM logs on your geocaches!

Regarding the FP, where are you expecting to see that displayed?

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2 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

It fails to mention a third option that I think is perfectly valid: You can consider the situation, and decide no action is needed.  That text should really be added.

I know what you're saying, and I know everyone keeps saying "you can just ignore it", but that's not really true: a bad health score is a bad health score, so the cache will keep coming up to reviewers while they're scanning for problems, and, as far as I know, the message will be repeated next time such messages are sent, and now the cache will remain listed in the caches-with-problems list on the dashboard. At the very beginning, the health score was only used to generate these messages, and at that time one could reasonably say "just ignore it", but now the messages are reflecting an actual problem with other ramifications, so ignoring it after due consideration really isn't an option any longer.

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Or, the other way to look at it - it remains on an "annoy" list. At best, nothing is ever done about the cache, and the nag remains an annoyance. (Yes, if there is no problem with the cache, a reviewer may agree and nothing may ever be done about it).  At worst, there IS a problem, and either it's fixed or it's archived.

So, yes, you can still ignore it if you can put up with the 'annoyance' of it showing on your list.

But just as a reviewer would likely suggest in the case of a false positive - easier just to post the OM log if you know that everything is ok and have the score reset.  (I would wager that GS isn't explaining this because it's a whole lot of explanation and they'd rather err on the side of KISS and encouraging owners to regularly check their caches - yep, even if it's discovered there's nothing wrong with them)

The sky is not falling.

Edited by thebruce0
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1 hour ago, HiddenGnome said:

It looks like both of the NM logs were posted today. It can take up to 24 hours before actions on a geocache (including a NM log) are factored in which is why those geocaches are not showing up as needing attention at the moment. Thank you for being so responsive to NM logs on your geocaches!

Regarding the FP, where are you expecting to see that displayed?

I thought there was an update a while ago that I could see if someone gave me a FP on one of my caches...

Maybe I was wrong...

I was talking about this update:

https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/346050-release-notes-website-dashboard-activity-feed-september-21-2017/

 

There is a message that stated this: 'Cache owners now have the option to view logs and pictures on caches they own. Even more exciting they will see when their cache earned a Favorite point. '

The problem I I've never seen this on my dashboard..

 

Thanks

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9 minutes ago, EveRan2013 said:

I thought there was an update a while ago that I could see if someone gave me a FP on one of my caches...

Maybe I was wrong...

I was talking about this update:

https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/346050-release-notes-website-dashboard-activity-feed-september-21-2017/

 

There is a message that stated this: 'Cache owners now have the option to view logs and pictures on caches they own. Even more exciting they will see when their cache earned a Favorite point. '

The problem I I've never seen this on my dashboard..

 

Thanks

In the top, right corner of your Recent Activity feed is a dropdown. From your earlier screenshot it looks like you have currently selected "Yours". If you expand that dropdown you will also see "Community" and "Your Hides". If you select Your Hides you will see all of the activity that occurs on your geocaches including uploaded photos and FPs. The FP will be displayed as an icon of a heart in a green circle next to the log type icon.

yourhides.png.41643489bcba367b2710b5cb74f2f47c.png

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14 minutes ago, EveRan2013 said:

I thought there was an update a while ago that I could see if someone gave me a FP on one of my caches...

Maybe I was wrong...

I was talking about this update:

https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/346050-release-notes-website-dashboard-activity-feed-september-21-2017/

 

There is a message that stated this: 'Cache owners now have the option to view logs and pictures on caches they own. Even more exciting they will see when their cache earned a Favorite point. '

The problem I I've never seen this on my dashboard..

 

Thanks

I see favorite points that are left.. See the green heart?

lct7gBy.png

p.s. someone explain why this heart is green and not blue? It's not because it is MY cache as the heart is green on the caches I see in my friend's logs as well.

Edited by fbingha
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25 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I know what you're saying, and I know everyone keeps saying "you can just ignore it", but that's not really true: a bad health score is a bad health score, so the cache will keep coming up to reviewers while they're scanning for problems, and, as far as I know, the message will be repeated next time such messages are sent, and now the cache will remain listed in the caches-with-problems list on the dashboard. At the very beginning, the health score was only used to generate these messages, and at that time one could reasonably say "just ignore it", but now the messages are reflecting an actual problem with other ramifications, so ignoring it after due consideration really isn't an option any longer.

Yep. That's why I'd rather see something along the lines of, "If you believe you have received this reminder email in error, then please contact us at ... so we can investigate the situation and update the health score algorithm."

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23 minutes ago, HiddenGnome said:

In the top, right corner of your Recent Activity feed is a dropdown. From your earlier screenshot it looks like you have currently selected "Yours". If you expand that dropdown you will also see "Community" and "Your Hides". If you select Your Hides you will see all of the activity that occurs on your geocaches including uploaded photos and FPs. The FP will be displayed as an icon of a heart in a green circle next to the log type icon.

yourhides.png.41643489bcba367b2710b5cb74f2f47c.png

Thanks I found it, strange if overlooked it many times!

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18 minutes ago, niraD said:

Yep. That's why I'd rather see something along the lines of, "If you believe you have received this reminder email in error, then please contact us at ... so we can investigate the situation and update the health score algorithm."

Ditto. That would encourage people to help the system rather than hate it.

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19 hours ago, -KROP- said:

How do I remove a cache from the "may need help list"? I have caches that are fine, but high D/T so get DNFs. I've logged OM but still they appear on the list.

For example, I have a T4.5 cache with tree climb attribute yet people still get there and log a DNF without even attempting to climb. What else can I do? I've had to delete their DNF logs and post an OM but it still says I need to maintain the cache.

This CHS seems to really discourage hiding high D/T caches. It appears to be poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented.

It troubles me that people are now resorting to deleting DNF logs in an attempt to pacify the CHS on a cache that isn't missing. At the very least this is a PR problem, but even so, I'll stick with what I've been saying all along that DNFs (which simply mean someone didn't find the cache for whatever reason) are a poor measure of cache health.

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19 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

I'll stick with what I've been saying all along that DNFs (which simply mean someone didn't find the cache for whatever reason) are a poor measure of cache health.

You have study more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic to understand this.

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21 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

It troubles me that people are now resorting to deleting DNF logs in an attempt to pacify the CHS on a cache that isn't missing. At the very least this is a PR problem, but even so, I'll stick with what I've been saying all along that DNFs (which simply mean someone didn't find the cache for whatever reason) are a poor measure of cache health.

I would hope that the algorithm is robust enough that it takes negative logs into account, even if the CO deletes them. The owner can still post armchair OM logs, but simply sweeping the negative logs under the rug by deleting them should not work.

Of course, that begs the question of whether DNF logs should be considered negative logs...

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8 minutes ago, arisoft said:

You have study more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic to understand this.

"Now ol' FUZZY LOGIC's a friend of mine
He gets me puzzle hints for free..."

Sorry, I guess you had to be there.

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On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:38 AM, HiddenGnome said:

I understand that people feel strongly about what HQ has or hasn't done in the past and I agree that we have likely come across as flippant in the past with releasing features and walking away. My team is working to change that by being in the forums more, talking with the community to understand what people want and then finding a way to make it so. It is an evolving process and we won't always get it right, but I am trying to be more transparent about our processes and decisions. Hopefully the community will help us understand what can be different and we'll do better the next time :D

Don't get us wrong. The increased transparency and communication with respect to the dashboard project has been refreshing and much appreciated.

However, there still seems to be a disconnect somewhere between what HQ thinks the community wants and what the community actually wants or needs. This new owner maintenance tool is a good example of this, but we can pick nearly any of the recent changes to the site over the last few years as additional examples. In the past, many members had requested a function on the private profile page showing which of their caches have the NM flag set and/or are disabled, in order to more easily keep track of the caches they need to deal with in some manner. While the new tool is still a good thing as far as giving potentially negligent owners a nudge, it isn't what the community had been asking for. This is reinforced by some of the members posting here that were confused about the lack of disabled caches in the tool.

Now, I don't know what your processes are as far as collecting information from the community with respect to future changes. It was my understanding that requests like I described above were kept in a database somewhere so folks like you could draw from it as necessary. Do you know if this was indeed the case, and if so, do you have access to that database? I hope those requests weren't just disappearing into the ether, because there has been a lot of valuable data put forth by members in these forums in the past and I have to hope we weren't just talking to a brick wall. If we could all work together to ensure you get accurate data about the community's wants and needs, then things would go a lot more smoothly for everyone. The community would get tools that better fit their needs, you'd get a much more positive response from the community, and you'd have to spend less time trying to jury rig a product that was designed with a flawed premise into a useful tool.

With very few exceptions, the vast majority of the folks posting in here truly want to help. It's in our best interest to give you the best feedback and data we can in order to help you give us what we want and need. Some posts may come across as griping or ungrateful, but that tone is itself very useful feedback in that it demonstrates that there may have been a misunderstanding as far as what the user wants or needs. I hope you can look beyond the tone used by some to find that nugget of useful data.

Again, thank you for the manner in which you and your team have conducted yourselves as part of this project. I truly hope some lessons have been learned and that this model will be used for other projects going forward.

Edit to add: Also, I understand that sometimes there may be technical reasons why you can't give us what we want. That's completely understandable, but it would be nice to see such transparency that HQ could just tell us that they can't give us what we want for technical reasons.

Edited by The A-Team
Adding a bit more clarity
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Hello

I don't have this new widget on my dashboard ?

(I have one cache with 2 DNF +  need maintenance+disable)

Thanks

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6 hours ago, nicoo07 said:

Hello

I don't have this new widget on my dashboard ?

(I have one cache with 2 DNF +  need maintenance+disable)

Thanks

Your cache GC6KQJW (which you identified in your other thread on this subject) does not meet the algorithm criteria for being included in the cache owner maintenance widget.  If you have no caches meeting the algorithm, you will not see the widget.

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Isn't something wrong with the CHS algorithm if a disabled cache with NM flag does not show up in the widget? Such a cache certainly cannot be considered "healthy".

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