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Using UV / invisible ink?


boisestate

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Any forum users have experience using UV paint in a cache placement?

We are considering adding a UV element to parts of a new multi-cache we are building and would like to hear from those who have experience with this. UV paint does not need to be included, we just thought it could add a fun element. We have some experience finding a few UV lab caches that required a UV flashlight to find a hidden code...we thought they were super fun. Those lab caches were found at dusk and at night.

A few questions:

1) Maintenance...how often do you need to re-apply the UV paint?  I have read that direct sunlight will wear out the UV paint quicker.

2) To read the UV paint (using UV flashlight) do you need full darkness (night) or can it be read during daylight in shaded areas (i.e. UV paint on a rock under a shaded tree – during the day).

3) How much will the UV element reduce cache traffic? Not all cachers have UV flashlights so this will deter some from even attempting the cache.

4) If you are a CO to a UV cache...would you do it again?

Thanks for any help here.  Please feel free to add any other insights.

 

 

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I've not hidden a cache using UV paint.  My observations on its use :

  • it yellows and becomes visible. I don't know if this is brand issue, a placement issue (more  or less sunlight), a surface issue. I' wouldn't  to paint it on anything where I wouldn't use regular paint.
  • it fades - definitely a function of sunlight exposure, and possibly other things I don't know about
  • reduces traffic... this is situational. If it's the hot trend in your area, cachers will have UV lights.  If it isn't, they won't - trends and the cachers who carry the trendy equipment come and go from the game.
  • I'm not a CO to a UV cache, buti f I were going to do it, I'd think about it as possible extra clue for a staged cache, say INSIDE an ammo can. Get UV clue, take shorter route, don't get UV clue take longer route. Or other route. 
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Our reviewer won't publish a UV paint cache as it's considered vandalism.  My assumption is that if permission were granted by the property owner, it would be allowed.  

I have an invisible ink cache that needs a UV light that's held up pretty well through the life of the cache.  It's needed to be replaced about once every two years.

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1) Maintenance...how often do you need to re-apply the UV paint?  I have read that direct sunlight will wear out the UV paint quicker.

Sunlight will kill UV quickly, I have used black duct tape over UV and that seems to work

2) To read the UV paint (using UV flashlight) do you need full darkness (night) or can it be read during daylight in shaded areas (i.e. UV paint on a rock under a shaded tree – during the day).

You DO NOT need full darkness, if you can shade the area and you have a good UV light it will work

3) How much will the UV element reduce cache traffic? Not all cachers have UV flashlights so this will deter some from even attempting the cache.

As long as you use the attribute UV, cachers will come prepared, UV lights can be picked up cheaply

4) If you are a CO to a UV cache...would you do it again?

Absolutely I will, especially my night caches, did you know you can also get UV fishing line,  One of  my caches have a whole bunch of redirect coordinates written on them, each one is attached to fishing line and all are hidden in the same Black L&L, one fishing line is UV coated, that is the proper redirect, the rest are just fake.

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3 hours ago, boisestate said:

1) Maintenance...how often do you need to re-apply the UV paint?  I have read that direct sunlight will wear out the UV paint quicker.

2) To read the UV paint (using UV flashlight) do you need full darkness (night) or can it be read during daylight in shaded areas (i.e. UV paint on a rock under a shaded tree – during the day).

 

As mentioned, paint deteriorates in the elements, especially UV qualities. When you attempt to re-paint it, now the lines become more obvious, and they might have been somewhat visible in ordinary light in the first place.  It depends on the particular production run of the paint you use.  You just have to try it and then decide what you may try next.  It might require more maintenance that you'd expect.  But cache owners typically write their coordinates once and let it rot, so what do I know. :anicute:

If you could instead use UV material such as fishing line, it might be better.  Some plastics, toys, craft items, glow in UV light. Or use phosphorous, a powder additive found in hardware stores used by painters.  A mineral, even rocks of the stuff, among other rocks, would be super durable.  Limestone works, too.

I like the idea of placing the code inside an ammo can.  It will require shade to see the UV glow.

Edited by kunarion
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I'm a Co-CO of a night cache that uses UV paint as part of the hunt. This isn't the standard yellow paint, but rather colored florescent paint. This is not the same as glow in the dark paint.

 

1) Maintenance...how often do you need to re-apply the UV paint?  I have read that direct sunlight will wear out the UV paint quicker.

 

So far in two years we've never had to touch up the paint. I did a maintenance run a couple of months ago and the paint still pops, especially the orange pigment, when hit with a UV light.

 

2) To read the UV paint (using UV flashlight) do you need full darkness (night) or can it be read during daylight in shaded areas (i.e. UV paint on a rock under a shaded tree – during the day).

 

They way this is set up, you need it to be pretty dark. Dusk is ok, but you won't be able to pick up the right arrows at high noon, even on a cloudy day.

 

3) How much will the UV element reduce cache traffic? Not all cachers have UV flashlights so this will deter some from even attempting the cache.

 

Hard to say. They fact this is a night cache already reduces the traffic.

 

4) If you are a CO to a UV cache...would you do it again?

Yes, I'd do it again. We've gotten some very positive feedback for having something different.

 

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59 minutes ago, coman123 said:

As long as you use the attribute UV, cachers will come prepared, UV lights can be picked up cheaply.

Of course, not everyone remembers to check the attributes.   I'll confess, I came to a multi-cache and got stumped, only to go home and log my DNF and notice the attribute later.  :(

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1 hour ago, coachstahly said:

Our reviewer won't publish a UV paint cache as it's considered vandalism.  My assumption is that if permission were granted by the property owner, it would be allowed.  

The ones I've seen have applied the UV paint to items placed by (and belonging to) the cache owner.

2 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:
  • it yellows and becomes visible. I don't know if this is brand issue, a placement issue (more  or less sunlight), a surface issue. I' wouldn't  to paint it on anything where I wouldn't use regular paint.

One technique I've seen used is to paint an assortment of symbols in different colors. The actual clue is painted in UV paint. That way, it doesn't matter if the UV paint looks a little different, because it's being compared with other paints that all look different from each other.

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34 minutes ago, niraD said:
2 hours ago, coachstahly said:

Our reviewer won't publish a UV paint cache as it's considered vandalism.  My assumption is that if permission were granted by the property owner, it would be allowed.  

The ones I've seen have applied the UV paint to items placed by (and belonging to) the cache owner.

 

The cache submission needs to be very clear about the "painted item".  I submitted a cache with a stage last year, and specified in the reviewer note that one stage is "a rock that has partial coordinates painted on it, placed among boulders", and the reviewer rejected it.  "Painting rocks is considered vandalism". The confusion delayed publication for a short while. I cleared it up with more info.  "The rock is different from the existing boulders, it's a landscaping marble stone, which I own and painted and brought in just for the cache stage". :)

I like the idea of other paint hiding or blending with the fluorescent paint.  There are a lot of cool ways that could be used.

Edited by kunarion
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54 minutes ago, kunarion said:

The cache submission needs to be very clear about the "painted item".  I submitted a cache with a stage last year, and specified in the reviewer note that one stage is "a rock that has partial coordinates painted on it, placed among boulders", and the reviewer rejected it.  "Painting rocks is considered vandalism". The confusion delayed publication for a short while. I cleared it up with more info.  "The rock is different from the existing boulders, it's a landscaping marble stone, which I own and painted and brought in just for the cache stage". :)

I tried uv and it just didn't seem to work well for me, so decided to paint the entire flat rock (covering a hole in a rock wall) black instead.   I lugged that huge thing in with a pack frame so it met guidelines.  Lugging it back out when we archived it, seemed it gained a few pounds.  :)

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4 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

The cache submission needs to be very clear about the "painted item".  I submitted a cache with a stage last year, and specified in the reviewer note that one stage is "a rock that has partial coordinates painted on it, placed among boulders", and the reviewer rejected it.  "Painting rocks is considered vandalism". The confusion delayed publication for a short while. I cleared it up with more info.  "The rock is different from the existing boulders, it's a landscaping marble stone, which I own and painted and brought in just for the cache stage". :)

You could paint the coordinates on a fake rock hide-a-key container.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

You could paint the coordinates on a fake rock hide-a-key container.

If it's the kind of fake rock hide-a-key container that has a lid over the key compartment, then you could write with UV ink/paint on the inside of the lid, and it would even be protected from the sun's UV light (and the resulting degradation).

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I'm part of a group caching identity which formed just to set some caches , one of ours is a multi with a small container at the first stage, inside which is a strip of plastic from one of those thick postal envelopes you sometimes get from online retailers . One side proclaims in big bold marker pen  'this is not the final cache, don't sign it !', the other side has UV pen giving bearing and distance to the final box. Obviously being soft plastic the strip can be rolled up and placed in a bison tube or other small opaque  container, and not be affected by fading.

We used plastic because tests showed the UV ink could actually be seen on some papers in normal light, especially after a few weeks or if the paper got damp. It's been there for 2 1/ 2 years now, and apart from a vandal with an agenda taking a flame to it and melting the plastic not ,long  after it was placed and meaning a maintenance trip to replace it,  it's been fine.

A powerful uv torch (like mine, which uses 3 aaa cells ) shows the 'invisible ink' info even in bright sunlight, but the little keyring/button cell ones need a 'coat over the head ' type of temporary darkroom to see the writing. Quite a lot of the cheap novelty torches adverised as UV are actually NOT UV at all, simply having a purple LED. Those are useless ! If your banknotes have UV ink on them  as a security measure (as ours do  in the UK) you could suggest searchers test their uv light out on one at home in daylight to check it's suitability for  the task before heading out.

I'd say that using the UV stage is probably going to reduce the number of cachers who go for your cache, but those who  make the effort will enjoy it and be appreciative of something a little out of the ordinary. I've posted a note on our cache page to the effect that if anyone without a suitable light wants to do the cache, e-mail me with a few days notice and I'll hide my UV torch in a handy parking spot so they can borrow it then leave it in the same place for me to pick up again.

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14 hours ago, coachstahly said:

Our reviewer won't publish a UV paint cache as it's considered vandalism.  My assumption is that if permission were granted by the property owner, it would be allowed.  

I have an invisible ink cache that needs a UV light that's held up pretty well through the life of the cache.  It's needed to be replaced about once every two years.

I agree though it is fun in some areas it is still vandalism if it can be seen

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