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JL_HSTRE

Geocachers Hostile To Other GPS Games Players?

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I understand why Groundspeak is restrictive about other GPS Games. It doesn't want to provide free advertising, especially not for what more or less amounts to competition.

Personally, I know enough about the other major GPS games not to be interested in them. However, I've noticed some geocachers expressing what more ot less amounts to ideological purity with regard to geocaching - being critical of businesses and events that cater to the other games in addition to geocaching, in some cases including boycotting them.

I find this particularly curious because most people I know who play the other GPS games do so in addition to geocaching, or they are former geocachers.

Is this hostility a regional phenomenon or more widespread? Is there a reason for it besides tribalism?

Edited by Joshism

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In the history of humanity, there have always been people that wish to elevate their position artificially by excluding others or saying others' interests are not as good as theirs.  You can see this clearly in religion, politics, racism, and patriotism.  Saying one game is better than an other is almost always someone exhibiting confirmation bias.

One potential annoyance is the possibility of someone using the QR code game to place a QR code at a mystery cache's actual location.  I can't say I've come across that, but I've always wondered if someone has done it.

We could weigh one game off against another and it wouldn't matter because it all comes down to personal preference.  We could always discuss facts, but in the end, which game one decides is superior is always based on preference and what one seeks to get out of the game.

I will say that, in my area, the QR code game's major players are geocachers that have switched to that game.  Several of them say they switched due to the way they were treated (not by the community) in the geocaching game.  Doubtless, there was also the lure that another game was more fulfilling to them and they wouldn't have to travel too far to participate to a greater degree.

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I've not seen it in my area (southern England).  

I know some Geocachers who also play other games (I "dabble" in one other location based game myself).    I've seen some lighthearted discussion between geocachers, one of which plays another game and one who doesn't, about the other game and is it silly etc.      And I'm sure some players of other games are aware of geocaching and think it is silly/inferior to what they play.   As Ranger Fox said that's human nature.   

 

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Are Geocachers Hostile To Other GPS Games Players? No, not out here in the real world from my prospective. I had an idea of Waymarking Pokemon GO stops that resulted in the thread being locked. Ingress and Munzee are pretty much nonexistent in my area.

If the question was are Geocachers hostile to other Geocachers then my answer is a definite YES.

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The closest thing I've seen to the described hostility has been annoyance from geocache owners when QR codes were applied to their containers without permission.

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Could you be confusing friendly rivalry with hostility? I can imagine a geocacher poking fun at one of the other games, including calling it a "boycott" when talking about an event they have no interest in attending. But I can't even imagine actual hostility except in rare cases where it might be justified such as the one niraD mentions where someone playing one of the other games subverts or endangers a geocache.

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We haven't seen "hostility" towards other games. 

In fact, a few events we attended in another state had more info on the table for those other games than the site that their event was created for.  We figured this site was the one that brought in the numbers for their agenda,  and didn't feel comfortable in what we felt was a presentation for a competitor, so we left (with a couple others).  All were "other" geocaching games, finding caches.  We haven't seen that here yet, so figure it is regional.

When it first came out, we had some of those QR sticker things stuck on/near caches which caused some issues, but that stopped quickly.

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Had a couple of QR players in our geocaching group that placed their stickers on almost every light pole, telephone pole, electrical box, guardrail, etc,, we happened to come across. Never bothered me, no hostility what so ever,, but i did always wonder what the point was. It finally donned on me that the point wasn't to bring a person to a cool location or anything interesting, but mainly to score points. Ya know, kinda like what geocaching has become. :unsure:

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2 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

Had a couple of QR players in our geocaching group that placed their stickers on almost every light pole, telephone pole, electrical box, guardrail, etc,, we happened to come across. Never bothered me, no hostility what so ever,, but i did always wonder what the point was. It finally donned on me that the point wasn't to bring a person to a cool location or anything interesting, but mainly to score points. Ya know, kinda like what geocaching has become. :unsure:

 

Imagine Wherigo being an AR game that scores points to unlock different levels. I believe it would sell.;)

Naintic is already working on Harry Potter GO.

It's old members/players that are leaving, so I believe geocaching needs to attract new members. Hunting film pots under lamp skirts is just too boring. AR games seem to be the popular choice for the younger generation. :)

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On 11/17/2017 at 8:32 AM, niraD said:

The closest thing I've seen to the described hostility has been annoyance from geocache owners when QR codes were applied to their containers without permission.

I think these are kind of cool, and when I see one I know I'm close to the geocache. :lol:

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As others have discussed, my main gripe with them is that they sometimes exploit geocaches without the owner's permission.

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On 11/17/2017 at 6:31 AM, Joshism said:

I understand why Groundspeak is restrictive about other GPS Games. It doesn't want to provide free advertising, especially not for what more or less amounts to competition.

Personally, I know enough about the other major GPS games not to be interested in them. However, I've noticed some geocachers expressing what more ot less amounts to ideological purity with regard to geocaching - being critical of businesses and events that cater to the other games in addition to geocaching, in some cases including boycotting them.

I find this particularly curious because most people I know who play the other GPS games do so in addition to geocaching, or they are former geocachers.

Is this hostility a regional phenomenon or more widespread? Is there a reason for it besides tribalism?

Interesting. "Tribalism" is the latest word-of-the-season that folks with a certain political affiliation use to insult members of the opposite political affiliation. I am taken aback when I see it making its way into other realms of every day life, such as geocaching.

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8 minutes ago, TyroneShoelaces said:

Around here I've seen some annoyance with Pokemon Go because the behavior of a few players got all GPS games banned from some local cemeteries and caches had to be archived.

 

Geocachers in a dispute here in my home State got geocaches on VDOT property banned. I know Tennessee and South Carolina have Laws to prohibit geocaching in cemeteries, so is this a local or State ban on GPS games in cemeteries?

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1 hour ago, Manville Possum said:

 

Geocachers in a dispute here in my home State got geocaches on VDOT property banned. I know Tennessee and South Carolina have Laws to prohibit geocaching in cemeteries, so is this a local or State ban on GPS games in cemeteries?

Just a few cemeteries, not an area wide ban, thankfully.

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1 hour ago, TyroneShoelaces said:

Just a few cemeteries, not an area wide ban, thankfully.

 

As a player of both games I have not encountered any Pokemon GO stops or gyms in cemeteries, but I have geocache placements in a few. Respectfully placed of course, not close to any graves but along the fence on the outside, except for one in a very remote old historic cemetery. It's inside of a wall around the cemetery. I enjoy exploring those places. :)

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16 hours ago, bflentje said:

"Tribalism" is the latest word-of-the-season that folks with a certain political affiliation use to insult members of the opposite political affiliation. I am taken aback when I see it making its way into other realms of every day life, such as geocaching.

I haven't heard it in that context, but it could be applied easily to both major US parties.

Tribalism refers to loyalty to one's group and hostility towards those outside that group. The average sports fan demonstrates tribalism on a regular basis.

The term and concept aren't new.

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On 11/17/2017 at 7:31 AM, Joshism said:

I've noticed some geocachers expressing what more ot less amounts to ideological purity with regard to geocaching....

Is this hostility a regional phenomenon or more widespread?

I've not seen hostility local to me, west central Florida. A few events are both, with the Geocaching.com event making no mention that the event is also listed elsewhere. And this works out fine.  That was commoner a while back. haven't seen it in a while, but then I'm not attending the more urban restaurant events much, which seem to be mostly where that happens.

Early  in the sticker game, there were some grumbles (okay a bit more annoyed than mere grumbling) about stickers on and  in caches without CO permission/knowledge, but that seems to have faded. Some COs had an issue with stickers very near their hides, people scanning those and logging the Geocaching.com find. The solution was to emphasize cache/container/ sign log on the cache page -  but that also seems to have faded away.

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I "play" 3 different versions of this "game" we all enjoy and yes, there are some who might say "That one doesn't interest me at all because ............." but hostility, have not really noticed is generally.

My $.02 is to play as you will, at the level and interest you desire but have fun and be safe regardless!

On an aside, I do believe the P&G placements are out of control: $.05 worth this time

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On 11/17/2017 at 5:15 AM, Ranger Fox said:

I will say that, in my area, the QR code game's major players are geocachers that have switched to that game.  Several of them say they switched due to the way they were treated (not by the community) in the geocaching game.

This is an issue that really bothers me.  Why do some Geocachers treat other Geocachers with such disdain? While there is a small number of geocachers who are an anathema to our game (stealing caches, trashing TBs, deleting found logs for no reason, etc...) most are wonderful people who enjoy the game as much or more than I do.  If we would all treat others the way we would like to be treated, our sport would not lose folks to those other games!

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:15 AM, Ranger Fox said:

I will say that, in my area, the QR code game's major players are geocachers that have switched to that game.  Several of them say they switched due to the way they were treated (not by the community) in the geocaching game.  Doubtless, there was also the lure that another game was more fulfilling to them and they wouldn't have to travel too far to participate to a greater degree.

19 minutes ago, Inmountains said:

This is an issue that really bothers me.  Why do some Geocachers treat other Geocachers with such disdain? While there is a small number of geocachers who are an anathema to our game (stealing caches, trashing TBs, deleting found logs for no reason, etc...) most are wonderful people who enjoy the game as much or more than I do.  If we would all treat others the way we would like to be treated, our sport would not lose folks to those other games!

Maybe it's a dyslexic day for me, but I don't see Ranger Fox saying that at all

I always thought we were the community, and  "not by the community" says (to me) that it isn't cachers treating other cachers poorly.  :)

 

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9 hours ago, cerberus1 said:
On 11/17/2017 at 8:15 AM, Ranger Fox said:

I will say that, in my area, the QR code game's major players are geocachers that have switched to that game.  Several of them say they switched due to the way they were treated (not by the community) in the geocaching game.  Doubtless, there was also the lure that another game was more fulfilling to them and they wouldn't have to travel too far to participate to a greater degree.

9 hours ago, Inmountains said:

This is an issue that really bothers me.  Why do some Geocachers treat other Geocachers with such disdain? While there is a small number of geocachers who are an anathema to our game (stealing caches, trashing TBs, deleting found logs for no reason, etc...) most are wonderful people who enjoy the game as much or more than I do.  If we would all treat others the way we would like to be treated, our sport would not lose folks to those other games!

Maybe it's a dyslexic day for me, but I don't see Ranger Fox saying that at all

I always thought we were the community, and  "not by the community" says (to me) that it isn't cachers treating other cachers poorly.  :)

It could also mean that those who left had problems with the organization, not their fellow players.  There have been such stories in the forum from time to time.  In some cases these former cachers disagreed with the rules and how they were applied.  Those people sometimes come to the forum, disgruntled or even angry, to seek support for there views...and reactions here are not always what they were hoping for.

Any game has its rules, personalities and "atmosphere." Often it's not a matter of right and wrong, it's personal preference, and if it's a bad fit, people leave.

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I'll be specific, then: some of my community's hiders had claimed problems dealing with the administration (reviewers and Groundspeak) led them to switch games.  The QR code game in specific had no problems with their inclination toward proliferation, and the game is self-reviewing due to automatic proximity enforcement and automatic archival if their stickers are not maintained.  I personally believe the blame goes all around, and while it usually starts at the hider's end, that's not always the case.  When I said, "not by the community," the "community" to which I was referring was the community of hiders and finders.

One last thing.  This topic tends be in the context of geocaching as the established game and all the others as newer.  However, letterboxing has been around for far longer than geocaching.  How do the letterboxers feel when geocahers find their letterboxes, sign their stamp books without using a stamp, and hide a geocache near their letterbox, disturbing their placement's area?  No, they shouldn't feel grateful or honored that their letterbox is getting more traffic now that a geocache is nearby.

I think hostility can occur due to the residual feelings when people switch games, or due to when games' objectives are different and their play areas clash.  All problems I see could stem from one of those two.

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One last thing.  This topic tends be in the context of geocaching as the established game and all the others as newer.  However, letterboxing has been around for far longer than geocaching.  How do the letterboxers feel when geocahers find their letterboxes, sign their stamp books without using a stamp, and hide a geocache near their letterbox, disturbing their placement's area?  No, they shouldn't feel grateful or honored that their letterbox is getting more traffic now that a geocache is nearby.

In the US at least, letterboxing only predates geocaching by a few years and by the time geocaching started, letterboxking had yet to gain much traction. . Even so,  there was a lot of animosity toward geocaching ftpmm the LB com. There was the attitude that geocaching was an inferior activity. Use a  GPS and  find the cache.  Easy stuff compared to letterboxing clues. They looked down their noses at us.  There was  (and still is) some conflict when geocachers accidently found letterboxes and swapped out the stamp, bellieving it was swag.  

Jeremy Irish made a very early offer to letterboxing community to bring letterboxing listings onto the  geocaching webiste and was told to take a hike.  They wanted nothing to do with geocaching, even though their website was very rudimentary (and was for years until Atlas Quest was introduced to the LB community).  So letterboxing plodded along in relative obscurity while geocaching took off like a rocket.

Bottom line,  most people need someone to look down on.

Edited by briansnat
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11 minutes ago, briansnat said:


Jeremy Irish made a very early offer to letterboxing community bring the letterboxing listings onto the  geocaching webiste and was told to take a hike.  They wanted nothing to do with geocaching. So letterboxing plodded along in relative obscurity while geocaching took off like a rocket.
 

 

I believe that most of us that are also letterboxers like to keep these two hobbies apart. It really isn't about the numbers to a few of us, and geocachers would want a letterboxing powertrail like we have with the birdhouse event passport caches. ;) I'm guessing it already exists here as geoart. :D

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I'm not hostile to other games, just indifferent.  I suppose I could add another location-based activity to my repertoire, but between family and work, I only have so much spare time, so I focus it on geocaching. 

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On 12/4/2017 at 0:12 PM, hzoi said:

I'm not hostile to other games, just indifferent. 

This best describes me too.

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On 11/25/2017 at 2:55 PM, Inmountains said:

Why do some Geocachers treat other Geocachers with such disdain

Because they're human.

That said, in my experience, about 95% of people who quit geocaching because they have some conflict within the game (not because of boredom, health, lifestyle changes, money, etc) are having issues with Groundspeak and/or Reviewers, not other local cachers. Usually this is sour grapes because they can't hide caches the way they want to. ("I hate rules and authority because they stifle my fun" is the real epidemic crisis in America today.)

On 11/26/2017 at 8:25 AM, Ranger Fox said:

How do the letterboxers feel when geocahers find their letterboxes, sign their stamp books without using a stamp, and hide a geocache near their letterbox, disturbing their placement's area?

If I ever meet a letterboxer who doesn't geocache I will be sure to ask. :P

One big difference is a QR code tag near a geocache is usually intentional whereas a geocache hider usually doesn't know there is a letterbox there until people start finding it accidentally while seeking the cache.

Edited by Joshism
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It's a bit different, but an example of some minor conflict has happened locally between Geocaches and Cavers/Spelunkers.   There are a lot of underground caves and disused quarries which were generally only known to (and visited by) Cavers/Spelunkers.   Then, a Caver who is also a Geocacher hid a number of 5/5 caches in these locations.   Now, they are very popular Geocaches.   So the Cavers are seeing more visitors.   They have not been hostile, and I've not had any altercations, but I know from the Cache Owner that there is some resentment in the Caving community about it.  And I can understand why, their "secret" place is now known by another group.   

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On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:24 AM, redsox_mark said:

It's a bit different, but an example of some minor conflict has happened locally between Geocaches and Cavers/Spelunkers.   There are a lot of underground caves and disused quarries which were generally only known to (and visited by) Cavers/Spelunkers.   Then, a Caver who is also a Geocacher hid a number of 5/5 caches in these locations.   Now, they are very popular Geocaches.   So the Cavers are seeing more visitors.   They have not been hostile, and I've not had any altercations, but I know from the Cache Owner that there is some resentment in the Caving community about it.  And I can understand why, their "secret" place is now known by another group.   

As a former caver, I'd add that it's not just that our "secret" place is now known by another group, it's also in the nature of cavers to be protective of the locations because of the potential for damage to the environs by the uninitiated and the very real possibility of injury or worse for these people entering a place that almost always deserves respect, training and preparation, if not specialized equipment.

It's one thing if something's hidden ten feet into a broad cavern mouth, but if you have to "make your way" to the cache, we feel it's best to not bring in people who could easily get our hobby locations gated because someone got hurt.

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