We need this geocache!

[+on4bam]

6 minutes ago, hzoi said:

To you first point, since you don't look like you are past your late 60s, that seems an odd statement for someone whose freedom has been guaranteed by NATO since birth.  One would think you'd be slightly more trusting of a NATO partner than NK.  But I digress.

To your second point, I won't pretend to be a fan of current US border policies, but on the flip side, if one used a NK sim card, or accessed the internet in any other way inside NK, I doubt that NK would bother asking for anything when they know they can just intercept it and exploit it.

Let me clarify: I won't be visiting NK in the near future ever.  And you're right, I'm slightly more trusting a NATO partner but ever since mass surveillance became so easy I tend to follow the old cold war slogan "trust no one". We can avoid to a great extent FB, Google and the likes but are powerless against state run systems. Same goes for stuff happening here with camera's, ANPR systems (reading license plates just about everywhere).

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"  B. Franklin.

But we're getting way OT here.

@NYPaddleCacher  the "need" was by the TS. I don't think we "need" any cache. Nice to have, yes, need? No.

 

[+OwenfromKC]

On 10/30/2017 at 8:49 AM, hzoi said:

I remember thinking that the North Korean side of the conference table in the Joint Security Area would have been a perfect spot for a virtual cache, since one can be part of a tour originating from either the North or the South.  Now that virtuals are back, all a CO needs is landowner permission... 

I also thought of the NK side of JSA as a possible new location when new virtuals were awarded. I was just imagining unique places around the world.   According to the rules, since you have to have recently visited the location and photos are difficult to get and only allowed from certain points of view, wouldn't one be able to possibly locate a sign or object in the room that had to be told to the CO as proof?        

You mention landowner permission. True, but does it always happen? (rhetorical).  Me just brainstorming also, since it is a JSA and IF a CO was somebody who knew somebody, couldn't the UNCSB-JSA Commander give permission even though it is located on the NK side? With full disclosure it most likely would cause an international incident.  Imagine trying to explain a virtual object that 'westerners' locate, record, and disseminate online.  NK would probably think it was some secret CIA operation in order to gather information.

[+hzoi]

12 hours ago, OwenfromKC said:

According to the rules, since you have to have recently visited the location and photos are difficult to get and only allowed from certain points of view, wouldn't one be able to possibly locate a sign or object in the room that had to be told to the CO as proof?

If I had a virtual reward to burn, I'd ask for a picture of the CO and/or GPSr, with the table and UN flag visible, like this one I took during my tour.  Maybe also a photo of the border guards on the opposite side, just to see how many stacked up from the north versus south.

12 hours ago, OwenfromKC said:

You mention landowner permission. True, but does it always happen? (rhetorical).  Me just brainstorming also, since it is a JSA and IF a CO was somebody who knew somebody, couldn't the UNCSB-JSA Commander give permission even though it is located on the NK side?

 

Edit: I had assumed the standards for virtual rewards would be the same as earthcaches.  They are not.   Here's what the Help Center has to say about landowner permission for earthcaches versus virtual rewards.

 

Quote

Virtual Caches must be placed in locations where geocachers are allowed to enter. In some sensitive areas the reviewer can ask for permission to ensure the land manager is aware of the Virtual Cache.

Quote

Landowner or land manager permission is required for most EarthCache locations. Warn the manager that your EarthCache may bring more people to the site so they can plan for more visitors.

To document permission, post a Reviewer Note with the name, title, and contact information of the person who granted permission. If possible, include a copy of the email that they sent to you.

Public lands are managed in different ways throughout the world. For example, EarthCaches placed on National Parks Service property in the United States will need a special permission. If you are certain that the location requires no permission, explain this in a Reviewer Note.

It reads like these two cache types have opposite burdens of proof for permission -- that the default is that an earthcache needs permission and a virtual cache does not.  Which makes no sense, unless the presumption is that the "top 1%" who get to place virtual rewards are presumed to have better judgment than the rest of us unwashed masses who are only allowed to submit earthcaches.  But that's a separate conversation, which I think I'll take to its own thread.

Anyway. As far as permission here, now that I think about it, you'd really need permission from both the DPRK and from the UNCSB-JSA commander, since they both control it equally.  Keep in mind that talks stall here just based on table dimensions and lives have been lost over whether branches can be cut from a tree, so I don't imagine this would be an easy process.

Edited November 8, 2017 by hzoi

[+NYPaddleCacher]

So this is kind of interesting

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC2BE9D_gc2be9d-test

It's a "test" cache listing for a non-existent cache in North Korea.

 

[+hzoi]

1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

So this is kind of interesting

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC2BE9D_gc2be9d-test

It's a "test" cache listing for a non-existent cache in North Korea.

Forgot about that one.

Interestingly, there is no country page available on the old search page.  But North Korea is an available regional search on the new search page.

In other news, I read this article on the North Korean interwebs (or, more accurately, intraswebs) this morning, and yes, the monitoring is about as I suspected.

[+Rebore]

6 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

So this is kind of interesting

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC2BE9D_gc2be9d-test

It's a "test" cache listing for a non-existent cache in North Korea.

 

It seems to me that North Korea was only chosen as a country because nearly no one will look for a cache there.

[+geodarts]

On 11/8/2017 at 10:19 AM, hzoi said:

If I had a virtual reward to burn, I'd ask for a picture of the CO and/or GPSr, with the table and UN flag visible, like this one I took during my tour.  Maybe also a photo of the border guards on the opposite side, just to see how many stacked up from the north versus south.

- - - - 

Anyway. As far as permission here, now that I think about it, you'd really need permission from both the DPRK and from the UNCSB-JSA commander, since they both control it equally.  Keep in mind that talks stall here just based on table dimensions and lives have been lost over whether branches can be cut from a tree, so I don't imagine this would be an easy process.

It's not only that both control the area, you can visit the DMZ from both sides of the border.  The DPRK tour has been described as "tense".   Given that, a photo of the DPRK guards would automatically be prohibited since pictures of the military are against the rules.  Even if photos do exist, the DPRK has rules about what can be photographed and violating them can get you banned, expose your guides to punishment, or worse.

it is one reason why every  part of the DPRK is a sensitive area that should require permission as a virtual.    Even if the restrictions on gps use could be ignored, a virtual like the now-archived Forbidden Country cache would be problematic.

Before the travel ban was imposed I had entertained the idea of going to the DPRK - although going to a country with forced labor camps, torture and executions for political prisoners might have been an ethical stretch, I don't think my wife would have approved it in any event. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by geodarts