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I just Made My First Wherigo Cartridge


Thot

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I did my first Wherigo yesterday.

Today I used RangerFox's cartridge builder  http://Wherigo.rangerfox.com to create a cartridge.

I did a very a simple one and it was easy to do.  But, knowing nothing about this I have questions.

  1. Can a Wherigo start at the same location as an existing cache?
  2. If a Wherigo doesn't have a cache associated with it can it be listed on the GC website?
  3. If it must have an associated cache to have it listed, does it have to be the final or can it be at an earlier stage than the final?
  4. I can't figure out how to dry-run it.  When I try the rangerfox website's emulator it goes to zone 1 but I can't figure out how to get the actions to appear or how to move past zone 1.

Forgive me for these nubey questions but everybody has to start somewhere.

Edited by Thot
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Hi Thot,

Welcome to world of Wherigo.

  1. Can a Wherigo start at the same location as an existing cache?

Yes, unless something is placed physically in the field, the cartridge can begin anywhere so long as the final is within 2 miles of the geocache. Some builders try and avoid this though for various reasons - redundancy and also it might annoy the cache owner to have his/her spot re-used. As a side note though, the reviewers do not consider "props" which could be used in a Wherigo as physical items either. I think this one maybe a bit of a grey area. Sorta like most reviewers don't consider fire tacks physical stages.

  1. If a Wherigo doesn't have a cache associated with it can it be listed on the GC website?

No, but it could be listed on the Wherigo site. There are lots of wherigos with no geocache. See the original Wherigo designer J2B2. I have thought for awhile though that it would be really cool to have a "virtual" Wherigo where you could still get credit. I doubt something like this will ever happen though.

  1. If it must have an associated cache to have it listed, does it have to be the final or can it be at an earlier stage than the final?

Interesting question. I suppose you could put the final in the middle although I'm not sure everyone will complete the rest of the cartridge once they find the cache. Why would you put the final in the middle stage?

  1. I can't figure out how to dry-run it.  When I try the rangerfox website's emulator it goes to zone 1 but I can't figure out how to get the actions to appear or how to move past zone 1.

There could be a couple problems happening. Make sure to drag the character slowly over the next zone. Sometimes I have to drag it in and out a couple times. The triggering of evens is based upon a proximity trigger around the zones so if the character is dropped right in the middle of the zone this trigger could be missed. It might also help to widen the proximity. I typically do between 7-10 meters (more if in an area with bad reception or if the precise location is not a necessity). Also check and make sure you don't have any "stop emulator" actions in your zone. This will stop the emulator from progressing.

 

Edited by Forest-Ghost
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Thanks very much for your reply.

2 hours ago, Forest-Ghost said:

Hi Thot,

  1. Can a Wherigo start at the same location as an existing cache?

Yes, unless something is placed physically in the field. . .

What do you mean by "something"?

  1. If a Wherigo doesn't have a cache associated with it can it be listed on the GC website?

No, but it could be listed on the Wherigo site.

Knowing nothing about building one of these things I chose a type called Tour Guide.  From your reply, I now think these can't be posted on GC.com.  I don't think nearly as many people look at the Wherigo site for them as see them on GC.  I didn't even know the Wherigo site existed until I decided to try to create my own 

  1. If it must have an associated cache to have it listed, does it have to be the final or can it be at an earlier stage than the final?

Interesting question. I suppose you could put the final in the middle although I'm not sure everyone will complete the rest of the cartridge once they find the cache. Why would you put the final in the middle stage?

I have a cache with three features.  The cache, the park & feeding the turtles.  I am trying to have them do the cache first because it has turtle food with it.  The cache must be outside the park so after doing the cache and getting a packet of turtle food, I want them to enter this little known and very nice park.  There they can feed the turtles and watch them. 

  1. I can't figure out how to dry-run it.  When I try the rangerfox website's emulator it goes to zone 1 but I can't figure out how to get the actions to appear or how to move past zone 1.

There could be a couple problems happening. Make sure to drag the character slowly over the next zone. Sometimes I have to drag it in and out a couple times. The triggering of evens is based upon a proximity trigger around the zones so if the character is dropped right in the middle of the zone this trigger could be missed. It might also help to widen the proximity. I typically do between 7-10 meters (more if in an area with bad reception or if the precise location is not a necessity).

I didn't drag anything.  The instructions said right click on a location to create a zone.  I have 6 zones.  When creating the second zone RangerFox's software created zone 2 and drew a line to it, and so fourth for the rest. 

Also check and make sure you don't have any "stop emulator" actions in your zone. This will stop the emulator from progressing.

I wouldn't know how to do that.  So unless it's a default I don't have it on and wouldn't know where to look for one.

 

 

Untitled-1.jpg

Edited by Thot
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1. Something physical could be anything that you the geocacher placed in the field that is part of the Wherigo. Wether this be a dog tag with numbers, or props that interact with the cartridge. 

2. A Wherigo can be posted on the GS website but it must have a physical cache at the end. In order to play a Wherigo geocache, you must download a Wherigo cartridge from the Wherigo website. The cartridge must be hosted on Wherigo.com. You can't host the cartridge on the geocaching site. So there are two separate listings for each Wherigo geocache: the geocache page and the Wherigo page.

 

"I didn't drag anything.  The instructions said right click on a location to create a zone.  I have 6 zones.  When creating the second zone RangerFox's software created zone 2 and drew a line to it, and so fourth for the rest."

You originally said you were trying to play the cart in the emulator. The Wherigo creation part is separate from the cartridge. After you make the Wherigo open the webwigo.net website and load the gwc or gwz file from your Wherigo, into the emulator (webwigo.net). To create the gwc file, goto the Wherigo kit home screen, click "create," next click on your Wherigo. You will now see a list with one option "download cartridge." Download the gwc file and load it in webwigo.net.

 

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3 hours ago, Forest-Ghost said:

2. A Wherigo can be posted on the GS website but it must have a physical cache at the end.

Previously you said you weren't sure whether it had to be at the end.  Have you gotten new information?

You, quoting me from my previous post:
"I didn't drag anything.  The instructions said right click on a location to create a zone.  I have 6 zones.  When creating the second zone RangerFox's software created zone 2 and drew a line to it, and so fourth for the rest."

You originally said you were trying to play the cart in the emulator.

Quote

Make sure to drag the character slowly over the next zone

My Comment you quoted above was responding to your statement that you drag something -- I don't have characters.  I assumed you were referring to during creation, not test.

The Wherigo creation part is separate from the cartridge. After you make the Wherigo open the webwigo.net website and load the gwc or gwz file from your Wherigo, into the emulator (webwigo.net). To create the gwc file, goto the Wherigo kit home screen, click "create," next click on your Wherigo. You will now see a list with one option "download cartridge." Download the gwc file and load it in webwigo.net.

I'm using this website not the Wherigo website, to create and test the cartridge.

See annotated screen capture below.  When I download I get a small file named Heritage_Park_Turtle_Adventure with no extension.  When I try to upload it to the Wherigo site it fails to upload.

Heritage-Park-II.jpg

Edited by Thot
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In reference to the physical container part, you could theoretically put the geocache at any stage within your Wherigo. What I meant, is that if you want to list the Wherigo on geocache.com, you must have a physical container and log book. I would recommend reading the Wherigo.com faq: http://www.Wherigo.com/faq.aspx

also the geocache guidelines page will also cover some too about the container requirement.

In reference to the character, what I meant was, if you are playing your  cartridge in the emulator, you will drag a “little character” around which represents you the player. You can use webwigo.net to test your cartridge after you create it on the Wherigo kit website.  

I understand you are building your Wherigo on Wherigo kit website and trying to upload to the Wherigo.com website. When you goto upload the file (from kit to Wherigo.com) follow these steps:

1. Goto kit Home page, then “create” then choose build GWZ file. Save this file to your desktop and upload it to Wherigo.com.

Also make sure to include on your geocache listing a link to the Wherigo page.

I recommend spending some time playing around with the program and getting familiar with the Wherigo kit and Wherigo.com site. There is a bit of a learning curve to building and playing Wherigos but they can be really fun once you are familiar with the software.

 

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For testing it in the emulator, you have to know one thing about Wherigo and its zones: events can happen either when someone is close to a zone (OnProximity) or when someone gets to the zone (OnEnter).

Kit needs to be able to create cartridges that work in every Wherigo Player.  This, unfortunately, includes Garmin.  Garmin has an issue: for OnEnter to work, people typically need to reach zero feet or meters for the Garmin Wherigo Player to register they've arrived.  If you've ever tried to zero out a GPS receiver, you'll know it's a pain--and pointless to do for Wherigo as getting close should be good enough.

Because of the issue with OnEnter, Kit will use OnProximity.  This means the player will just need to get close to the zone and your messages and questions will show up.  It's the best way to make sure the cartridge works for everything.

 

Kit, the Emulator, and Proximity

When you're playing a cartridge in the emulator, the situation is reversed.  You see the square that is your zone, so you want to drag the marker within the square to make things happen.  However, Kit uses proximity to trigger everything.  So dragging the marker into the square won't actually work.  Instead, you have to drag the marker just on the periphery of the square to trigger everything.  Try that.

 

Uploading to the Wherigo Site

If, for your cartridge, you see "<br>" in your description on Wherigo.com, please remove it as it will cause Wherigo.com to not like you and refuse to save your cartridge.

 

(That's stupid.  Why can't Kit see that you're going to play the cartridge in the emulator and use OnEnter while using OnProximity when it creates the cartridge for the Wherigo web site and for download?  Hmm... well, let's see if I can remove the stupidity when I get some free time.  Tonight might not be totally free because I have to log in to work and do a code move.)

(You might want to watch this thread as, when I get some free time, the issue you have with proximity in the emulator might be gone.)

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2 hours ago, Forest-Ghost said:

I understand you are building your Wherigo on Wherigo kit website and trying to upload to the Wherigo.com website. When you goto upload the file (from kit to Wherigo.com) follow these steps:

1. Goto kit Home page, then “create” then choose build GWZ file. Save this file to your desktop and upload it to Wherigo.com.

I do appreciate you answering my questions.

As I tried to illustrate with my last image, I'm using the emulator on the kit page -- not the Wherigo.com website.  I may just not know how it works.

It dawned on me -- actions may require the user to do some overt action on the Wherigo cartridge.  I thought of this as a tour and my Actions tell the user what s/he should do next in the real world.  For example, "Pick up the bottle."  There's an actual bottle on the ground.  He is not required to click anything on the Wherigo player.

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I'm having trouble.

Here are my current issues and questions:

  1. Is the size of a zone a radius or a diameter?
  2. I can't seem to get the first & last zones to work.  I give details of my problems with the first zone in the next post.
  3. Where do I get the unlock codes and how/where do I add them?  I don't see them in the emulator at the final zone so I guess I have to do them outside the editor?.

 

Edited by Thot
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In an attempt to see if the Start zone is too close to the next zone I moved the Start much further away.  But, when I run the simulator it's  in the same place as it was initially.  Does the editor not allow you to move the  starting zone?  I've checked the coordinates of the new location and they're correct in the editor.

Untitled-1.jpg

Untitled-2.jpg

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If this isn't the preferred place to get help building these things, where is?

Another question I thought I'd already asked:  Is the Start point the First Zone?  If not, that may be the problem described in the previous message, but I don't remember giving it a Start location and haven't located a way to change it in the Kit.

Edited by Thot
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In an attempt to understand the Start Location and to get it far enough away from the second Zone to rule out interference I created a second version.  Best I can tell, other than moving the Start location (which becomes the first Zone by default and can't be moved, apparently) and changing some of the text in the descriptions, I made no changes.  Now the emulator is throwing errors.

This is confusing.  With computers if you do the same thing you normally get the same result. 

After I got the kit error with no diagnostic information, I tried to upload the cartridge to Wherigo.com hoping they had a way of testing that gives more diagnostic information.  But no,  Wherigo.com threw an error and refused to upload it.

Untitled-1.jpg

Edited by Thot
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The zones are squares.  When you put in a proximity distance (in meters), this is from the center of the zone to the center of an edge.  So if you use 5 meters, the distance from the center of your zone to a corner of the square will be around 7 meters (remember your geometry: the pythagorean theorem).

Cartridge authors do not have control over unlock/completion codes.  An unlock code is created based off a combination of the cartridge and the user who downloaded it.  No one knows the formula.  A cartridge author does not have tools to verify an unlock code against a user.  The unlock code has issues on Wherigo.com because it frequently generates unlock codes that are longer than what's accepted (this is a thorn in my side because Groundspeak has refused to fix it: the full issue).  Kit automatically gives the player the unlock code and then places an item with the unlock code in the player's inventory so it survives a cartridge save and reload.

 

 

As for your starting zone seeming to drift, the two maps you're looking at are slightly different.  One is top-down and another is at a forty-five degree angle.  You can change this angle in the lower right corner of the map (the map interface has an icon for it).  GPS coordinates are best displayed in a top-down map.  I thought I had disabled the forty-five degree view in Kit, but I see it's not disabled in some areas as Google Maps automatically goes into this view.  You can always edit the coordinates manually in Kit to make sure they're where you want them.

 

This is the preferred place to get help.  I tend to fall off the face of the Earth at times due to my other schedule.  For example, on Saturday, I attended a barbecue festival from 9AM - 1PM, slept from 3PM - 5PM, photographed a haunt from 7PM - 1AM, posted the photos at 4PM, then went to sleep; on Sunday, I got up at 10AM, church from 11AM - 12PM, drove two hours away with a friend, photographed a haunt from 6PM - 12AM, edited photos while he drove back, edited photos from 2AM - 3AM, posted everything, then went to sleep and got in to work late.  So, yes, some things knock me out for a while.  However, rest assured I reply to things on this forum before I ever check my personal email, the latter of which I haven't checked since perhaps Thursday.  By the way, check out my haunt work at SeeYouScream.

 

The first zone typically becomes the listed geocache coordinates.  Because of that, when you play the cartridge through in the emulator, you will always trigger the first zone by default.  I might be able to do something to place the player outside the first zone if you'd prefer.  It's a sensible request, but I'm not going to fulfill it unless the community places some value on it.  ... ... ... Actually, when I look at your cartridge, the player marker appears just outside the first zone by two meters.  When you drag the marker to just barely inside the first zone and go through that, you appear just two meters from the second zone.  Since the two zones are that close together, why not combine them?  Signal drift from a GPS-enabled device could easily cause someone to drift by two meters and trigger the second zone.

The "are you ready to start" question might be better served as a multiple-choice question.

 

Uploading to Wherigo.com might produce an error if you leave HTML in the description box.  I already warned you about that, when I said to remove the "<br>" from the description.

 

Webwigo, the online emulator, is a wonderful tool.  It's made and maintained by kikinoot.  I asked him some time back if he could make a way other applications could pass a cartridge to it and he obliged.  That feature is really handy.

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Thanks for your reply, I was about give up.  I'm not getting notices of replies so I didn't realize you had replied.

Because I couldn't figure out a way to move the start point, trying to solve the problem of too close proximity I made another attempt named "a test cartridge" and changed the start location.  This second cartridge is the one getting the error messages mentioned in my previous post.  I thought I did this second one exactly as I had done the first so am baffled why it doesn't work.  I did change some proximity distances in this second try but that's about it.  If I can get the second one working I will delete the first one and rename it to the intended name. 

I was confused by your reference to html <br> earlier.  I don't see a <br> in the listing or any of the zones.  Which zone is it in?

I'm sending you an email with a link to this second attempt.

Edited by Thot
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I looked at your test cartridge.  Try playing it in the emulator now.  I adjusted how Kit responds to the ampersand in a zone name and how it encodes the file.

As far as the HTML <br>, that's when you upload the cartridge to Wherigo.com (the cartridge upload page).  In that site's form, you'll see the cartridge's description.  If it has HTML in it, strip it out.

I always check the forum before email, and some days I only check the forum.  This is the best way to get in touch if you need something immediately.  Second to that is the geocaching message center.

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Well, that cleared the error message.

I don't think I understand how the zone title, description & message are supposed to work.  I initially thought the player would see the zone description and picture.  That isn't happening, so I added the same things as a message under Actions, still neither appears when I do the emulator.  The questions work as expected.

When a player first arrives at a zone, how do I explain something to the him and show him a picture of what I'm talking about before asking questions?

Edited by Thot
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The zone's title is its name.  When the player sees a list of zones, this is what the player sees.

The zone's description is what's shown along with the optional picture if the player taps/clicks on the zone in the zone list.

When you explain something to the player, use a message.  Click on the gray "no image" to the left to choose or upload an image to show to the player.

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1 hour ago, Ranger Fox said:

When you explain something to the player, use a message.  Click on the gray "no image" to the left to choose or upload an image to show to the player.  Message is what I meant by comment in my previous post.  I've changed it to message now.

I tried that.  The message does not appear.

I just now checked it again after exiting my browser and going back to the emulator.  It's working now for some reason.

Edited by Thot
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Thanks very much for your help.  It all seems to be working now.  I was becoming frustrated and would have given up if you hadn't helped. 

There was something about me adding messages after doing the questions and then moving the messages to before the questions that made thing not work until I closed Firefox and got back in.  I'm not entirely through because I haven't placed the cache yet but I hope to do that soon  After that I'll publish it on the Wherigo website and then on GC.com

Edited by Thot
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How do I delete cartridges on this (Wherigo.com) website?  I have two earlier attempts that now need to be deleted.

For some reason my cartridge made on Ranger Fox's kit creator has too long a name for his system (or something), but not too long for this website. So, every time it's reuploaded it creates an entirely new cartridge with the truncated name which I have to redo all the description details.  If you upload a cartridge with the same name as a previous one does it replace the previous one keeping all the description stuff?

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You can't delete Wherigo cartridges on Wherigo.com because they never updated the Wherigo.com website. The only option to hide Wherigo cartridges is to make sure the "show in listing" box is un-checked on the cartridge details page. 

If you upload a cartridge with the same name as a previous one it will replace the cartridge and keep the where page details (this is the page writeup under "edit details."

 

*Edit, I forgot to mention that it would be good to write Groundspeak and mention the troubles with the Wherigo.com website. We have been petitioning them for literally years to update the website but no one will. It is still currently in beta phase. 

 

 

Edited by Forest-Ghost
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Well, I thought I had it working and wouldn't need to ask for more help.  But I had to make a change and now I have the same problem that made me do my first attempt all over again.  I really, really don't want to have to do this again.  And a second problem I had not run into before.  I think both of the problems are bugs either in the compiler or the emulator --  most likely both are in the compiler.

First, the problem in the development environment -- most likely the compiler.

I had to change the start point (Zone).  In the summary it asks you to describe the starting point.  Though I've changed the words in the development environment, it still shows the old (wrong) words in the emulator.

  Untitled-4.thumb.jpg.dd062090936e915ecacdd039b23e9acf.jpg

The second problem is that the little man (inverted teardrop) starts where you first put the Start Point when you began creating the cartridge.  I had to move the start point 2/3 miles from the original so now the man is not located in any logical location related to the Zones or aspects of the Wherigo.  It's just where you originally put the start point before later moving it.  I work around this but it seems like this should be fixed.  Turns out I only thought I could work around it, when I tried it in the field it forced me to go first to the old original starting location. Zone 1 is not the start point, why?

Untitled-2.jpg.28370aa40567df4d07c6fa6298d9bf6d.jpg

Edited by Thot
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When I did it in the field other problems surfaced.  Occasionally the program hangs when I choose/click Quit.  Abort seems to work.  How are Quit and Abort different?  Though this happened in the field I made this screen capture after I got home.  The only way I could get out of this was to close & restart the program.

IMG_0132.jpg.36c7fa433909fa885ef81a43e8857edd.jpg

 

How many people have used the Kit? It seems to have so many bugs.

When this happens I have to close the program and start again

IMG_0134.jpg.b7a6569db20403452667afcdd3e8073d.jpg

 

Why do I get this message when it's not a Play Anywhere?

IMG_0133.jpg.029ed70d9692e64f767a9ba274c1c23d.jpg

Edited by Thot
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I think I'll have more time to make a better post tomorrow.  These past few days weren't kind to my free time.

When you download the cartridge through a listing service such as Wherigo.com, the listing service overrides the cartridge's description, name, and a few other things with what you enter into the listing service for those values.  The actual starting point (not the first zone, but the listed starting point) is controlled by the listing service.  However, when you launch the cartridge, it'll still show the first zone.

All zones are numbered 1 because that's the number of zones currently available for the player to see.  It's possible in other cartridges (or the Lights Out kit) to have multiple zones visible at one time.

I don't know why the iPhone app isn't letting you see the zone.  On a similar note, I know there is or was a player app that, if there's only one zone available, would go straight to the zone instead of the zone list if you tapped on the locations list.

"You See" is for when an author uses characters and items.  "Inventory" is for when the player has items in his or her inventory.  "Tasks" are a checklist of things to do.  Kit doesn't offer these in its kits at the moment: the first two because it's not available in the Q&A and Lights Out kits, and the second because the two kits are simple enough that tasks won't be of help.

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On 11/6/2017 at 6:36 PM, Ranger Fox said:

The actual starting point (not the first zone, but the listed starting point) is controlled by the listing service.  However, when you launch the cartridge, it'll still show the first zone.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

The starting point is always where I put Zone 1 initially in your Kit emulator when I first begin development, and it becomes the starting point in the actual cartridge.  I can move Zone 1 but the start point does not move or I haven't figured out how to move it.  Unless you're using something from somewhere outside your control to create and compile the cartridge I would think you could move the start point.  It seems logical to me many people (certainly novices like me) would want to move the start point after creating the scenario and realizing problems with the location of the first Zone (which becomes the unmovable/uncorrectable start point).  I'm not sure who you mean buy the "listing service" but they definitely use the creator's (in this case, my) initial location of Zone 1 in your development tool. 

Edited by Thot
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On 11/6/2017 at 6:36 PM, Ranger Fox said:

I don't know why the iPhone app isn't letting you see the zone. 

To be clear, sometimes the Carteridge will start and other times it won't.  But, when it starts it doesn't start at Zone 1, it starts at the place were Zone 1 was initially -- before I moved it to avoid issues I discovered during the first field test. 

After reading your last post more carefully, I assume the "listing service" is this website.

Edited by Thot
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On 11/9/2017 at 9:43 AM, Thot said:

To be clear, sometimes the Carteridge will start and other times it won't.  But, when it starts it doesn't start at Zone 1, it starts at the place were Zone 1 was initially -- before I moved it to avoid issues I discovered during the first field test. 

After reading your last post more carefully, I assume the "listing service" is this website.

If you're using the emulator or standing right where the first zone is, you will never see the first zone.  This is because the cartridge is started, the zones are placed, and the emulator or app immediately recognizes you're in the first zone.  The zone is set to remove itself when the player enters the zone.  Because of all this, what you see is no zone and the first message or question.

Yes, a "listing service" is where you put the cartridges so people can download them.  Wherigo.com is a listing service for Wherigo cartridges and geocaching.com is a listing service for geocaches.  By the way, terracaching.com is also a listing service for geocaches.  There isn't just one site for any game, so I use the generic term "listing service".

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