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Suggestion: new, more useful attributes


Rikitan

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

How is this different from the existing terrain rating? 

 

Yeah...  I could see some then asking for a rating on attributes as well.

We see flat terrain 1.5s  that kids can walk on have some benefit for others.

 - But one who'd often show when I'm feet from a FTF,  did it while running on 3+ terrain caches. 

 

I'd say all caches  have some benefit. This is an outdoors hobby.  Fresh air, and in nature ... just getting out of the house helps.  :)  

I feel it makes a "heart health" attribute unnecessary ... 

 

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8 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

The "suitable for trackables" would be the Travel Bug symbol I'm guessing. I like it. Good for traveling.

 

Any cache larger than a micro is "suitable" for trackables.   

 - But we read logs, and look at the "view past trackables" on the cache page to see if it's a safe place to drop them.    :)

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12 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Any cache larger than a micro is "suitable" for trackables.   

 - But we read logs, and look at the "view past trackables" on the cache page to see if it's a safe place to drop them.    :)

8 minutes ago, The Jester said:

I'll disagree with this statement.  As noted earlier some places prohibit trackables in any size cache.  And some micro's can handle some coins (mint tins, for one).

 

Sounds like picking nits...

  Simply saying that a "suitable" for trackables attribute  could be applied to the majority of caches, so unnecessary.

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4 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

The result is that there is so little consistency in the way that many of these attributes are assigned, that they're practically useless, especially for filtering purposes.  Maybe we should be looking at streamlining the list rather than expanding it?

 

I assign minimal attributes and put anything important in the description.  Recently published one with only the P (Parking) attribute, and a Parking waypoint listed as well. Sure, some of the attributes were applicable, but didn't seem relevant to the cache itself. Since I'm in the midst of wine country, there's food and drink within 5 minutes of all my hides.  But several are on walking trails, bikes, strollers, dogs, etc are all allowed ... I pick a few and call it good.

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15 minutes ago, The Jester said:
19 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Any cache larger than a micro is "suitable" for trackables.   

 

I'll disagree with this statement.  As noted earlier some places prohibit trackables in any size cache.  And some micro's can handle some coins (mint tins, for one).

 

It really depends on the definition of suitable. A large enough size might be 'suitable' to hold them, but one designed to hold and transition them in travels may also be 'suitable' if large enough is just large enough.  So what would the attribute be indicating:  Large enough to hold trackables, or designed to host trackables (implying safely, thematically, appropriately, intentionally, etc).

 

Unless HQ starts requiring the use of "TB Hotel" to denote such caches (like they do for "Challenge", or "AR_", for example), the only indication a cache has been designed for trackables is pretty much that - title or description details. Large enough to hold TBs is pretty much a part of the definition of cache sizes.

 

("suitable" may not be the best word to use since it's pretty vague and may be defined differently depending on who uses the term)

 

I certainly wouldn't be against an active promotion to officially encourage the use of "TB Hotel" in cache titles designed for TBs, as opposed to merely large enough to hold them.

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18 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
On 10/3/2017 at 9:26 AM, Rikitan said:

I know - there is a long list of attributes to choose from.

 

 

So, here are the attributes I have used and are very helpful for my hides: Bicycles, Stroller accessible,  wheelchair accessible, recommended for children, Parking, Park and grab, Dogs allowed, 24/7, takes less than an hour, Stealth required, available in the winter, picnic tables. I love promoting family geocaching and made all our hides with that in mind. A family hobby to do together. 

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[Replying to several repeating posts with different artwork.]

 

If GS adds any type of attribute related to cardiac health, there may be negative repercussions. If you label a cache as 'heart healthy' does that indicate you are a health professional? Otherwise, are you proposing the Reviewer make that health determination, or do you suggest hiring a cardiologist who will be approving the suitability of these?

Heart healthy for some, may be deadly to others.

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1 hour ago, K13 said:

[Replying to several repeating posts with different artwork.]

 

If GS adds any type of attribute related to cardiac health, there may be negative repercussions. If you label a cache as 'heart healthy' does that indicate you are a health professional? Otherwise, are you proposing the Reviewer make that health determination, or do you suggest hiring a cardiologist who will be approving the suitability of these?

Heart healthy for some, may be deadly to others.

^^ Something to think about, I recently got an earful from an unhappy cacher accusing me of endangering her 2 year old by not including the "not for kids" attribute, the cache is 3 feet away from a barbed wire fence. I didn't realize people were using cache attributes instead of common sense.

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52 minutes ago, 31BMSG said:

^^ Something to think about, I recently got an earful from an unhappy cacher accusing me of endangering her 2 year old by not including the "not for kids" attribute, the cache is 3 feet away from a barbed wire fence.

I didn't realize people were using cache attributes instead of common sense.

 

Yep.  I feel there's already too much hand-holding in this hobby.     :) 

Not sure when some felt we had to protect them from their own behavior.  I guess why car wax has to label that it's not edible.

We had one who was upset because they've "always" done 2T caches , and if they knew our cache was rated closer to 2.5, they wouldn't have bothered.

:D    There were a few roots and rocks on the trail...

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16 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I rarely have, as they don't appear on the GPS. I see very little use for them. I prefer information to be written in the description, if any is needed.

I don't know what GPSr you use but if it's a Garmin it should show Attribues. Etrex 10, 20, 20x all do so i would assume so do other models. Attributres are listed as text rather than symbols after the description. Sorry this is OT.

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1 hour ago, 31BMSG said:

^^ Something to think about, I recently got an earful from an unhappy cacher accusing me of endangering her 2 year old by not including the "not for kids" attribute, the cache is 3 feet away from a barbed wire fence. I didn't realize people were using cache attributes instead of common sense.

 

 

 

I would not like to get an earful from anyone about my caches but if it wasn't a big deal, I'd thank her for bringing the barbed wire to my attention, and add the "not for kids" attribute. It might be helpful for the next parent with a 2 year old, who filters out "not for kids" caches. 

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I find some of the negative attributes useful to have, such as:

  • No dogs allowed - many of my hides are in areas where dogs are prohibited
  • Not recommended at night - either very hazardous to do so or you'd miss out on seeing the thing that makes the trip to GZ worthwhile
  • Not suitable for kids - I use this on any hide where letting a toddler go wandering around near GZ could be dangerous
  • Takes more than an hour - a lot of my hides do and I even have a challenge cache based on this attribute
  • No difficult climbing required if there's an easy way to a location that might otherwise look like it needs mountain goat skills

Other ones I frequently use are the short/medium/long hike ones, dangerous animals (snakes abound just about everywhere here), ticks (which I usually discover when doing cache checks, mainly affects caches near watercourses as the ridge-tops are too dry for them), difficult climbing when you really do need those mountain goat skills, and the thorns one if there's lawyer vine or lantana in the area.

 

Most of my hides are in places that can't be reached by public transport, but I use that attribute on the ones that do have a bus route or railway station nearby as it might be useful for visitors to the area who don't want to drive. I also use the picnic tables/restrooms when the reserve my cache is in has those, but those attributes might be more useful for events.

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41 minutes ago, mustakorppi said:

Asking a global community to use English keywords in their cache titles is a bit annoying.

Just like, as mentioned, "Challenge", and "AR_" (english acronym)? In every language?

If it were as big a deal, I would assume English would be the universally required keyphrase, but other languages could use their translation of the keyphrase.

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2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

 

 

I would not like to get an earful from anyone about my caches but if it wasn't a big deal, I'd thank her for bringing the barbed wire to my attention, and add the "not for kids" attribute. It might be helpful for the next parent with a 2 year old, who filters out "not for kids" caches. 

I didn't engage in a reply but I did add the "not for kids attribute", I also looked at some of my other caches and decided to add the same to them. My kids grew up rough and tumble so that's what I based the attribute on, may as well err on the safe side and let the parents decide for themselves if it's safe for a youngster.

Edited by 31BMSG
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1 hour ago, 31BMSG said:

I didn't engage in a reply but I did add the "not for kids attribute", I also looked at some of my other caches and decided to add the same to them.

 

I really like this. Good for you! I had no idea that the kids attribute could be changed into a not for kids attribute. It's something to think about when placing caches. We recently archived one of our caches because it was in a location where traffic increased and several cachers mentioned it in their logs, one said to hang on to your children. That was an eye opener.  

 

 

 

Edited by HunterandSamuel
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2 hours ago, colleda said:

I don't know what GPSr you use but if it's a Garmin it should show Attribues. Etrex 10, 20, 20x all do so i would assume so do other models. Attributres are listed as text rather than symbols after the description. Sorry this is OT.

I have an etrex 30. I just checked under the description and there are no attributes listed. (The cache I checked, has attributes.) Even if the attributes were listed, I would not feel inclined to scroll down past the description, especially loonnngggg descriptions.

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6 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

It really depends on the definition of suitable. A large enough size might be 'suitable' to hold them, but one designed to hold and transition them in travels may also be 'suitable' if large enough is just large enough.  So what would the attribute be indicating:  Large enough to hold trackables, or designed to host trackables (implying safely, thematically, appropriately, intentionally, etc).

 

Unless HQ starts requiring the use of "TB Hotel" to denote such caches (like they do for "Challenge", or "AR_", for example), the only indication a cache has been designed for trackables is pretty much that - title or description details. Large enough to hold TBs is pretty much a part of the definition of cache sizes.

 

("suitable" may not be the best word to use since it's pretty vague and may be defined differently depending on who uses the term)

 

I certainly wouldn't be against an active promotion to officially encourage the use of "TB Hotel" in cache titles designed for TBs, as opposed to merely large enough to hold them.

Actually, I think the Not Suitable for TB option would be the most used.  Areas that restrict TB's, known caches with problems of TB thefts, maybe even some remote caches (only visited every few years) would benefit from a "Don't place TB's here" type attribute.  But some of the larger micro's could be marked as suitable, since in general they aren't.

 

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7 hours ago, K13 said:

If GS adds any type of attribute related to cardiac health, there may be negative repercussions. If you label a cache as 'heart healthy' does that indicate you are a health professional? Otherwise, are you proposing the Reviewer make that health determination, or do you suggest hiring a cardiologist who will be approving the suitability of these?

Heart healthy for some, may be deadly to others.

On restaurant menus, I've seen "heart friendly" icons for food that is low calorie, and for food that is low fat, and for food that is low sodium, and possibly for others. I'm not sure how these examples would apply to geocaching though. Maybe "not heart friendly" for caches located near a salt mine, or near salt ponds? ;)

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9 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Another healthy heart attribute logo (cute!):

 

 

 

 

IMG_20200212_052800.JPG

 

Health/Fitness/Wellness is a business, a huge Industry with a vast array of products to sell to consumer.   A Heart Healthy attribute would be promoting an agenda. If there is a Heart Health attribute there should also be Fast Food and Donut Shop attributes for caches located near McDonalds and Tim Hortons.  

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48 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Agree. However this needs to be done by the cache owner, which is where the difficulty could occur. I can imagine some COs stubbornly not adding that to their so called TB Hotel, even if most of the TBs are being stolen.

But the CO could/should do it in the description, lets hold up on the shiny new attributes until the site can fix the broken puzzle caches and the 404 timeouts on the weekends.

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10 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Just like, as mentioned, "Challenge", and "AR_" (english acronym)? In every language?

If it were as big a deal, I would assume English would be the universally required keyphrase, but other languages could use their translation of the keyphrase.

Well yeah, we exist in a reality where the HQ has already enforced English keywords in cache titles, regardless of the local language. While it obviously isn't a big deal in the mind of the HQ, they might be a bit biased.

 

Translation of the keyphrase are more accomodating to locals, but would make things harder for tourists. Attributes (and cache types) work in any language.

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13 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

   A Heart Healthy attribute would be promoting an agenda.

 

 

You are probably right. I have a question.  We like to promote families geocaching together. Our cache hides are for that purpose. Someone said that is also promoting and against GS rules. I disagree and will keep doing it but I'm interested in finding material where GS also "promotes" geocaching to bring families together to geocache as a hobby. Love that stick family I posted but I think the "recommended for kids" and "stroller accessible" attributes promotes family geocaching already so it's not needed as a new attribute that I suggested in an earlier post. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

 

You are probably right. I have a question.  We like to promote families geocaching together. Our cache hides are for that purpose. Someone said that is also promoting and against GS rules. I disagree and will keep doing it but I'm interested in finding material where GS also "promotes" geocaching to bring families together to geocache as a hobby. Love that stick family I posted but I think the "recommended for kids" and "stroller accessible" attributes promotes family geocaching already so it's not needed as a new attribute that I suggested in an earlier post. 

 

 

 

You can promote geocaching as a family together all you want.  You could paint an ammo can with that  stick figure or even put those family stick figure bumper stickers as swag in the cache.   You just can't create the perception in the cache description that you're promoting an agenda.    One of the things that drew me into the game was groundspeaks stance on promoting commercialism and agendas on cache listings.  It's kind of nice to be able to engage in an form of entertainment without the constant bombardment form someone trying to sell me something or just being seen as someone that can be recruited to join their cause.   Geocachers are a very diverse group of people from all over the world.  The importance of "family" is equally diverse.  How do you suppose a geocacher that has just lost a parent would feel if they came across one of your "promoting families together" caches?

 

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17 hours ago, The Jester said:

Actually, I think the Not Suitable for TB option would be the most used. 

I like this idea.

 

9 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

Translation of the keyphrase are more accomodating to locals, but would make things harder for tourists. Attributes (and cache types) work in any language.

Sure, but that's my point; the value of the TB-friendly property may not be enough for an attribute, but may be on par with the clause for "Challenge" and "AR_" (despite the language issues, however that may or may not be resolved)

 

12 minutes ago, fuzziebear3 said:

Remember too, all of the attributes have a positive and a negative to them

Not all of them.

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On 10/3/2017 at 9:26 AM, Rikitan said:

I know - there is a long list of attributes to choose from. Some of them are critical for the game, others useful sometimes, some are quite peculiar with very rare usage.

However - as the game and world around develops, new elements are impacting the search. "Telephone nearby" could by useful information in early 00's, but well, it's almost only history now. Today, it would be handy to know other details about cache location. I'm not proposing to drop any of existing attributes, but it would be appropriate to add couple of new ones to keep up with pace of technology & habits of players.

To start with something specific, what about to add following, brand new attributes?

  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

Anything else on your mind? Maybe we'll inspire product owners & developers. 

So, I have been thinking about the new attribute ideas and settled on one I would like to see added due to climate change. This winter has been unseasonally warm with hardly any snow or freezing temperatures. That means an increase in the tick population. I know a few geocachers who stopped geocaching due to contacting Lyme disease. Sure, there is a tick attribute but I would like to be warned of any bushwracking that is required to find a cache hide. Even a few yards. My husband and I decided to not bushwhack looking for caches which increases the chances of getting Lyme. In our hide logs we make sure to note...no bushwhacking required. Guard rail finds are becoming a safe favorite in our area. I also like your idea of removing the telephone attribute and replacing it with free WiFi available. Helpful to save data. Many places, including public libraries, have free WiFi. 

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6 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

So, I have been thinking about the new attribute ideas and settled on one I would like to see added due to climate change. This winter has been unseasonally warm with hardly any snow or freezing temperatures. That means an increase in the tick population. I know a few geocachers who stopped geocaching due to contacting Lyme disease. Sure, there is a tick attribute but I would like to be warned of any bushwracking that is required to find a cache hide. Even a few yards. My husband and I decided to not bushwhack looking for caches which increases the chances of getting Lyme. In our hide logs we make sure to note...no bushwhacking required. Guard rail finds are becoming a safe favorite in our area. I also like your idea of removing the telephone attribute and replacing it with free WiFi available. Helpful to save data. Many places, including public libraries, have free WiFi. 

Not to add to your worries, but I've encountered ticks without bushwhacking.  Just walking thru grass, so that GRH isn't really 'safe'.

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8 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

So, I have been thinking about the new attribute ideas and settled on one I would like to see added due to climate change. This winter has been unseasonally warm with hardly any snow or freezing temperatures. That means an increase in the tick population. I know a few geocachers who stopped geocaching due to contacting Lyme disease. Sure, there is a tick attribute but I would like to be warned of any bushwracking that is required to find a cache hide. Even a few yards. My husband and I decided to not bushwhack looking for caches which increases the chances of getting Lyme. In our hide logs we make sure to note...no bushwhacking required. Guard rail finds are becoming a safe favorite in our area.

 

I've occasionally had leeches in my back yard after a period of prolonged wet weather. While I haven't yet noticed any ticks, around here leeches and ticks usually go hand in hand as they thrive in similar environments (and eat the same stuff). Okay, my back yard wouldn't win any landscaping prizes but I still don't consider hanging the washing out to be an exercise in bush-whacking.

 

One of my caches is accessed along a bike track that meanders through mostly open forest but crosses some ephemeral watercourses, and when setting it I picked up a couple of ticks along the way (it has the ticks attribute set). Conversely, on my ridge-top caches that require some pretty intense bush-whacking, I doubt anyone would encounter a tick because it's too dry for them there.

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On 2/24/2020 at 3:13 PM, barefootjeff said:

 

I've occasionally had leeches in my back yard after a period of prolonged wet weather. While I haven't yet noticed any ticks, around here leeches and ticks usually go hand in hand as they thrive in similar environments (and eat the same stuff). Okay, my back yard wouldn't win any landscaping prizes but I still don't consider hanging the washing out to be an exercise in bush-whacking.

 

One of my caches is accessed along a bike track that meanders through mostly open forest but crosses some ephemeral watercourses, and when setting it I picked up a couple of ticks along the way (it has the ticks attribute set). Conversely, on my ridge-top caches that require some pretty intense bush-whacking, I doubt anyone would encounter a tick because it's too dry for them there.

I love your adventurous cache hides and the "barefoot" photos of you. Maybe geocaching barefoot is a good tick repellent? lol

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