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Suggestion: new, more useful attributes


Rikitan
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I know - there is a long list of attributes to choose from. Some of them are critical for the game, others useful sometimes, some are quite peculiar with very rare usage.

However - as the game and world around develops, new elements are impacting the search. "Telephone nearby" could by useful information in early 00's, but well, it's almost only history now. Today, it would be handy to know other details about cache location. I'm not proposing to drop any of existing attributes, but it would be appropriate to add couple of new ones to keep up with pace of technology & habits of players.

To start with something specific, what about to add following, brand new attributes?

  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

Anything else on your mind? Maybe we'll inspire product owners & developers. 

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Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere

Not useful. There are cache sizes given that will be sufficient. If only some idiots won't list micro caches (pet preforms) as small or regular caches.

 

Hans

Edited by HHL
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I don't think these attributes are really needed/desired

 

37 minutes ago, Rikitan said:
  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt

These are highly variable. I mean, you can have cell signal for your operator but I can have not for the mine in the same area. Free WiFi can mean several things (some wifi are free upon registration, some are dangerous, they could be availiable for a limited time...) 

 

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  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)

This is covered by the Special Tool Required attributte (and/or Wireless Beacon sometimes)

 

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  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere

As HHL said, the cache size should be, if adequately used, enough.

 

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  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

The big question, how do you define a powertrail? It seems that everyone have its very own opinion and it is hard to standardize.

 

Not sure if we need more attributes. Of course they are useful to filter caches, but they are quite subjective and usually underused that I do not think it is worthy to add complexity to them.

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49 minutes ago, Rikitan said:
  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

Free Wifi: Not necessarily guaranteed; and many will be based on business hours so not 24/7/7.

Mobile Signal un/available: Part of planning is knowing your device and where you're going. Large swaths of regions may or may not have mobile signal depending on different carriers. Not universal or guaranteed and not very helpful if very few people use it anyway.

Smartphone required: If anything, covered by special tool required. There shouldn't be any cache that's technologically inaccessible; Wherigos are close, but that's covered by the cache type. Anything else is covered by attributes like field puzzle, tool, beacon, etc. Smartphone is too specific, and at the same time too vague (which smartphone? What if your smartphone isn't supported? etc)

Suitable for trackables: See HHL's comment above. Covered by size, best indication.

Powertrail: ugh, see other threadS ;P

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1 hour ago, Rikitan said:

To start with something specific, what about to add following, brand new attributes?

  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

 

Free WiFi.. Steer away as far as possible unless you can GUARANTEE the connection is safe (hint, you can't).

Mobile signal.. Which provider? (around here it's difficult not to have coverage but we've traveled with no/sporadic 2G coverage)

Besides, geocaching means getting outdoors, a perfect time to get away from any connections :ph34r:

Smartphone apps are tools, covered already

Suitable for trackables.. difficult.. NOT suitable might be useful (not because of size but risk of theft).

PT.. can of worms is already open :ph34r:

 

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58 minutes ago, anpefi said:

Not sure if we need more attributes. Of course they are useful to filter caches, but they are quite subjective and usually underused that I do not think it is worthy to add complexity to them.

Are attributes even included in PQs? 

I can see their utility, but closing in on 100 finds, I don't recall ever looking at/for them.  I'm sure I will at some point.

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1 hour ago, Rikitan said:

 

  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

 

 

All but the Powertrail attribute would be useless to me. Sorry.

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My 2 cents...

  • Free WiFi available - WiFi access can be useful, but I don't think using a geocache attribute to identify free WiFi access points is useful.
  • Mobile Signal available - As others have indicated, this depends on your provider. I think a better use of Groundspeak's time would be to get rid of the need to specifically save cache data for offline use in their app. None of the other apps I've used have thrown away cache data that I've downloaded if I forget to specifically save the data for offline use.
  • Smartphone (App) required - It's a tool that is already covered by other attributes.
  • Suitable for trackables - It's covered by size already.
  • Powertrail - This could be useful, and I don't think we need an ironclad definition of a power trail (or numbers trail, or mega trail, or whatever) for such an attribute to be useful. But there are already other threads about this attribute in the Bug Reports and Feature Discussions forum, where they'll do more good.
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20 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

Hmmm... Don't recall ever seeing them on my GPSr (64).  How are they accessed/displayed?

I've never looked for attributes on a GPS and I don't even know whether they display them but if they do then it's likely to be different for each model (I don't have a 64) so maybe someone else can help. 

Attributes are imported from the PQ into other tools, such as GSAK etc, and also the various phone apps though.

 

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

Mobile signal.. Which provider? (around here it's difficult not to have coverage but we've traveled with no/sporadic 2G coverage)

 

1 hour ago, anpefi said:

These are highly variable. I mean, you can have cell signal for your operator but I can have not for the mine in the same area. Free WiFi can mean several things (some wifi are free upon registration, some are dangerous, they could be availiable for a limited time...)

 

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

Mobile Signal un/available: Part of planning is knowing your device and where you're going. Large swaths of regions may or may not have mobile signal depending on different carriers. Not universal or guaranteed and not very helpful if very few people use it anyway.

Ditto these.

The only caches of ours I know about that have absolutely no cell service are the two on Garden Key in Dry Tortuga National Park, about 70 miles from Key West and 90 miles from Cuba.  I suspect that it's not great for our earthcache in Mesa Verde National Park, which is a ways from the nearest cell tower, and indeed some finders have posted that they didn't have a signal.

This isn't an argument against adding this attribute, necessarily.  But it's going to be my reasoning for seldom if ever using the positive attribute ("Cell Service Available") on any of our caches if it's added.  I don't use a phone to hide caches, so I have no idea what the signal strength is when I'm putting out a cache; also, I'm not the phone company, and it ain't my job to figure out whether you're going to have bars or not.

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21 hours ago, Rikitan said:
  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

Free WiFi would be pretty rare. It also seems reminiscent of the Phone/Fuel/Food Nearby attributes which are pretty much obselete in the smartphone era.

Poor/No Cell Service would be useful, albeit inconsistent because there are areas were one provider has signal but not the other.

Smartphone Required is covered by Special Tool Required (or cache type in the case of Wherigo).

Suitable for Trackables should apply to any Small, Regular, or Large cache. However, I can see merit in flagging other sizes or negatively flagging caches big enough for trackables but with a history of losing them.

Power Trail would be useful.

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21 hours ago, RufusClupea said:

Are attributes even included in PQs? 

Yes,  there is a attributes element in the GPX Groundspeak extension.  Here's an example from one of the caches in my MyFinds PQ.

<Groundspeak:attributes>^M
        <Groundspeak:attribute id="13" inc="1">Available at all times</Groundspeak:attribute>^M
        <Groundspeak:attribute id="63" inc="1">Tourist Friendly</Groundspeak:attribute>^M
        <Groundspeak:attribute id="26" inc="1">Public transportation</Groundspeak:attribute>^M
        <Groundspeak:attribute id="59" inc="1">Food Nearby</Groundspeak:attribute>^M
        <Groundspeak:attribute id="7" inc="1">Takes less than an hour</Groundspeak:attribute>^M
        <Groundspeak:attribute id="25" inc="1">Parking available</Groundspeak:attribute>^M
</Groundspeak:attributes>

Of course, as others have noted, what a GPS device does with this data depends on the GPS.   When creating PQ search criteria one can specify any of the available attributes to filter the results. Thus, if one includes "Available at all times" the results of the PQ will only include geocaches with that attribute set.  Even if a GPS can not handle the attributes list in the GPX file, the results will already have the filter applied.  In other words, if one copies the results of the PQ to their GPS, it doesn't really matter if the list of attributes is included because the list of caches would have been explicitly defined when creating the PQ.  

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11 hours ago, frinklabs said:

Wow, sweet to know, I'm not alone here (-:

Thank you all for your insights and opinion, it is good to discuss, share knowledge, experience and ideas on such lively forums! I'm using attributes a lot, during my prep for cache hunt, either with PQs, or GSAK / Project.gc com filters. And I was wondering whether we can have more useful flags on cache pages than likes of "telephone nearby" or "watch for livestock".

If not, I can live without them easily. Thanks for your replies!

 

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On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 6:26 AM, Rikitan said:

"Telephone nearby" could by useful information in early 00's, but well, it's almost only history now.

8 hours ago, Joshism said:

Free WiFi would be pretty rare. It also seems reminiscent of the Phone/Fuel/Food Nearby attributes which are pretty much obselete in the smartphone era.

Keep in mind that this is a global game. While these attributes may not be as relevant today in the developed world, they could still be very relevant and useful in less developed parts of the world. For example, while driving across Africa, it could be very useful to know that there's fuel available near a cache.

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7 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:
On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:10 AM, RufusClupea said:

Are attributes even included in PQs? 

Yes,  there is a attributes element in the GPX Groundspeak extension.

Under your account settings in the "Preferences" section, there's an option to specify a "GPX Version". This confusingly-labelled option actually specifies the Groundspeak extension version that will be used in the GPX 1.0 files that you'll get from the website. The only difference between the two options of "1.0" and "1.0.1" is that 1.0.1 includes attributes.

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21 minutes ago, The A-Team said:
On 04/10/2017 at 0:26 AM, Rikitan said:

"Telephone nearby" could by useful information in early 00's, but well, it's almost only history now.

9 hours ago, Joshism said:

Free WiFi would be pretty rare. It also seems reminiscent of the Phone/Fuel/Food Nearby attributes which are pretty much obselete in the smartphone era.

Keep in mind that this is a global game. While these attributes may not be as relevant today in the developed world, they could still be very relevant and useful in less developed parts of the world. For example, while driving across Africa, it could be very useful to know that there's fuel available near a cache.

In Australia, mobile phone coverage is still pretty much limited to the cities and larger towns. A few weeks ago I went caching along the Putty Road, a state highway (B84) linking northwestern Sydney and the Hunter Valley west of Newcastle. Once out of Sydney, there was no mobile coverage at all until I reached the urban areas around Maitland, but there are frequent signs along the road saying where the public telephones are.

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On 10/3/2017 at 3:26 PM, Rikitan said:

Anything else on your mind? Maybe we'll inspire product owners & developers. 

 

Old discussion, but current.
I am suggesting a new attribute.
GC is nature friendly and this information would help E-cars owners

Parking - Available chargers for electric cars

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5 hours ago, Condorik said:

Old discussion, but current.
I am suggesting a new attribute.
GC is nature friendly and this information would help E-cars owners
Parking - Available chargers for electric cars

 

Since cars can be charged "level one" into an outlet, why not simply an Electricity available attribute that would even cover pavilions at events  too.  :)

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6 hours ago, Condorik said:

 

Old discussion, but current.
I am suggesting a new attribute.
GC is nature friendly and this information would help E-cars owners

Parking - Available chargers for electric cars

"Old discussion, but current." Did you intend that pun ? It got an uptick off me either way !

 

This seems like a sensible and useful attribute to add. I have friends who own an electric-only car, and range anxiety is definitely a 'thing' for them.

 

The current 'fuel nearby' attribute with its liquid fuel pump icon can stay for internal combustion engine fuel  (however long that lasts) , and a new 'Electric car charging available nearby' attribute can be added ( something like 'E.V.' with an electric plug / cable image , or a lightning bolt seems to be a common icon for these things)

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33 minutes ago, K13 said:

There is an attribute for Fuel nearby - the gas pump that may or may not include the needed diesel for my truck. Do we need yet another attribute?

That surprises me, as I imagine that all petrol stations in Australia would have diesel as well as petrol pumps. Many have gas too, although that one can't be guaranteed, as there are not as many cars running on gas I presume. Petrol comes in different octanes and many stations have petrol with 10% ethanol as well.

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10 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

There are already too many attributes for cars that have nothing to do with the cache itself.

I kinda agree.   There is already a perception that the game is all about driving from one cache to another.  To me, navigating to a cache doesn't begin when one starts driving but after one has parked (assuming that a vehicle is even used).  

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12 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

That surprises me, as I imagine that all petrol stations in Australia would have diesel as well as petrol pumps. Many have gas too, although that one can't be guaranteed, as there are not as many cars running on gas I presume. Petrol comes in different octanes and many stations have petrol with 10% ethanol as well.

 

Didn't see a laugh afterwards, so just in case you're serious...      :)    It appears (to me) that K13 was just asking where would we quit. 

 - Maybe "Do we have to create another attribute for hydrogen vehicles too? "  makes sense to you ?

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With regard to the question asked by the topic "bumper", I'm against the idea of an EV charging station nearby attribute. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the Fuel Nearby attribute should be deprecated. IMO, it's not as relevant in today's day and age. There are a number of ways to look up up-to-date information regarding fuel, both at home, and on the road. When the low fuel warning comes on in my wife's new vehicle, the in dash navigation system pops up and asks if I want to look for gas stations nearby. Regarding electric vehicles, Google Maps shows me a bunch when I search for 'electric vehicle charging stations'. I wouldn't rely on an attribute on a 5 year old cache listing. Every weekend, I drive by a cache where there used to be a gas station across the street. The gas station is now closed. (And, even when it was open, it was only open 8-5.)

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On 10/3/2017 at 9:26 AM, Rikitan said:
  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere

 

This thread you started is interesting! I agree with your suggestions...Free Wifi available and Suitable for trackables. They should be added to attributes. I would like to see something in attributes about promoting exercise and good health. Which is why we hid our caches on a walking/bike trail. Can't come up with something right now though.  

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2 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Suitable for trackables

That's unnecessary, because all people need to do is mark the cache size correctly, and then all smalls and above would fit, as well as the log, a trackable or more . If the cache can't fit a TB it is a micro or an Other. A true small (and larger of course) has room for a trackable. It is sadly true though, that many, especially beginners, don't know what a small sized cache really is. They don't read the rating; they see a nano which is marked as a micro, so think if that is a micro, then the next size up must be a small. No, mintie tins, and small pill bottles are NOT smalls; they are micros. Good test; can a 'normal' sized trackable easily fit in (including get past a small opening, which is the critical thing)? If not, don't rate it a small; rate it a micro or an Other. No attribute is necessary, if everyone just rates their cache sizes correctly. I really don't know what is so hard about that, but apparently, many people are not capable of reading what the sizes are, rating them correctly (more likely don't care) and get offended and/or ignore comments given to assist that give the correct size.

 

Also, what one person might consider is suitable for a trackable, others might not. Someone might, for example, rate their urban cache in a busy area, as suitable for trackables, just because a trackable would fit (if they rated the cache size correctly that would show if a trackable would fit), but others might not think a cache in a high muggle area is safe for a trackable. For me to consider leaving a trackable in a cache, as well as it needing to fit, a cache must be visited enough, appear safe (which eliminates many urban caches), be dry, and be in a safe position (a cache under a bridge for instance, likely wouldn't pass this test because it could be flood effected). I take responsibility for trackables in my hands and I prefer to judge if a cache is as safe as appears possible to leave a trackable in. I wouldn't look at an attribute for this. Not that I can using a GPS, as attributes don't show on my GPS.

When you submit a new geocache the sizes are shown there, as copied below. The image shows clearly what a small and above looks like, and all those caches would hold a trackable. So no attribute is necessary; just rate the cache size correctly and that acts as an attribute, which everyone can see, including GPS users.

Cache sizes.jpg

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While size denotes whether or not a trackable will fit, suitable for trackables could also mean that there is something extra about the cache container that promotes trackables. Like separate bins for trackables heading north, south, east or west.

 

Regardless, I'm against it, along with the other three mentioned regarding WiFi, cell service and App required. These are too transitory, WifFi and cell coverage can vary too much, and app required is already covered by the type.

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44 minutes ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

While size denotes whether or not a trackable will fit, suitable for trackables could also mean that there is something extra about the cache container that promotes trackables. Like separate bins for trackables heading north, south, east or west.

 

Then there are those places where a trackable is not-recommended no matter the size.  I've seen caches with notes not to drop trackables.  Also, Canadian Parks (at least some, maybe not all) don't allow swag & trackables in caches, again no matter the size.

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1 hour ago, The Jester said:

Then there are those places where a trackable is not-recommended no matter the size.  I've seen caches with notes not to drop trackables.  Also, Canadian Parks (at least some, maybe not all) don't allow swag & trackables in caches, again no matter the size.

 

Likewise  for caches hidden in New South Wales national parks. Only a logbook, pen/pencil, pencil sharpener and information card are allowed. In such cases, an inverse attribute (NOT suitable for trackables) would be handy, to the extent that people actually look at attributes these days.

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55 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:
1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

to the extent that people actually look at attributes these days.

I rarely have, as they don't appear on the GPS. I see very little use for them. I prefer information to be written in the description, if any is needed.

 

I'm a bit old school and generally look at the cache page on the website before I leave home. With my own caches, I try to provide a lot of helpful information and identify potential hazards in the description and the attributes and I think it's sad that their use has been largely deprecated to something to look at when you get stuck. By then, when you're on a ledge halfway down a cliff face, it's probably too late.

 

Edited by barefootjeff
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2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I'm a bit old school and generally look at the cache page on the website before I leave home. With my own caches, I try to provide a lot of helpful information and identify potential hazards in the description and the attributes and I think it's sad that their use has been largely deprecated to something to look at when you get stuck. By then, when you're on a ledge halfway down a cliff face, it's probably too late.

 

If it's a difficult cache I will check the description before I leave home, but tend not to for more mundane caches.

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On 10/3/2017 at 9:26 AM, Rikitan said:
  • Free WiFi available - helps players to find free WiFi for connection / downloads during travel
  • Mobile Signal available - or not - so players can offlinize these cache pages before they start their hunt
  • Smartphone (App) required - many geocaches are now not available for players with handheld GPSr units (those with QR codes, NFCs, some WIG caches etc)
  • Suitable for trackables - useful when on travel and need to drop trackable somewhere
  • Powertrail - largely discussed before, no need to comment further

 

 

So, I'm sitting here watching the news and drinking a freshly made veggie smoothie and it dawned on me what a great symbol to let geocachers know it's a good hide for walking or running for exercise and heart health!  Besides your good ideas (wi-fi & cache large enough for trackables) a healthy heart symbol that indicates the area is great for walking and running. We have most of our cache hides on a walking/bike path and see many elderly people walking to keep in shape and some are also geocachers. Here are some symbols. This is a fun topic. Thank you for starting it. 

 

A running heart can be made into a walking heart also.

 

 

 

 

IMG_20200212_053006.JPG

 

Edited by HunterandSamuel
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The more I read of this thread, the more I think that if there is a problem, it's that we have too many attributes.  As a CO, I always find it a struggle to know which ones to pick...

 

I live in a suburban area, of course there's fuel, food, telephones, public transport and restrooms 'nearby', but how close is 'nearby'?  And do I need to tell people?  I'm sure I could even find a campsite that allows campfires within a few miles.  Thorns (well, brambles) are pretty much a likelihood on every footpath in the country.  Do I need to add a warning?  And we seem to get ticks here more now than I remember (at least, I do!), but how do I decide which of my caches should have that attribute?  I've never seen one, but we get adders here too.  What does tourist friendly actually mean?  What's the difference between a long hike and a significant hike?  Should night caches also be recommended at night?  If a cache requires a boat, could I also swim or wade?  Why is a cache recommended for kids - has it been designed with kids in mind, or is it because there's a playground nearby?  Etc., etc.

 

(These are all rhetorical questions!)

 

The result is that there is so little consistency in the way that many of these attributes are assigned, that they're practically useless, especially for filtering purposes.  Maybe we should be looking at streamlining the list rather than expanding it?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

The more I read of this thread, the more I think that if there is a problem, it's that we have too many attributes.  As a CO, I always find it a struggle to know which ones to pick...

 

I live in a suburban area, of course there's fuel, food, telephones, public transport and restrooms 'nearby', but how close is 'nearby'?  And do I need to tell people?  I'm sure I could even find a campsite that allows campfires within a few miles.  Thorns (well, brambles) are pretty much a likelihood on every footpath in the country.  Do I need to add a warning?  And we seem to get ticks here more now than I remember (at least, I do!), but how do I decide which of my caches should have that attribute?  I've never seen one, but we get adders here too.  What does tourist friendly actually mean?  What's the difference between a long hike and a significant hike?  Should night caches also be recommended at night?  If a cache requires a boat, could I also swim or wade?  Why is a cache recommended for kids - has it been designed with kids in mind, or is it because there's a playground nearby?  Etc., etc.

 

(These are all rhetorical questions!)

 

The result is that there is so little consistency in the way that many of these attributes are assigned, that they're practically useless, especially for filtering purposes.  Maybe we should be looking at streamlining the list rather than expanding it?

 

Good points. I agree with you.

Website is not helpful either, it does not provide any explanation when some attribute should be used, and when not. 

Most often I see it with Seasonal cache attribute, so many local owners understand it as available in all seasons. Just from top of my head. 

There's more important work to do, not only expanding the list, but as you said, streamlining, get to common understanding, etc.

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44 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

The more I read of this thread, the more I think that if there is a problem, it's that we have too many attributes.  As a CO, I always find it a struggle to know which ones to pick...

 

I live in a suburban area, of course there's fuel, food, telephones, public transport and restrooms 'nearby', but how close is 'nearby'?  And do I need to tell people?  I'm sure I could even find a campsite that allows campfires within a few miles.  Thorns (well, brambles) are pretty much a likelihood on every footpath in the country.  Do I need to add a warning?  And we seem to get ticks here more now than I remember (at least, I do!), but how do I decide which of my caches should have that attribute?  I've never seen one, but we get adders here too.  What does tourist friendly actually mean?  What's the difference between a long hike and a significant hike?  Should night caches also be recommended at night?  If a cache requires a boat, could I also swim or wade?  Why is a cache recommended for kids - has it been designed with kids in mind, or is it because there's a playground nearby?  Etc., etc.

 

(These are all rhetorical questions!)

 

The result is that there is so little consistency in the way that many of these attributes are assigned, that they're practically useless, especially for filtering purposes.  Maybe we should be looking at streamlining the list rather than expanding it?

 

 

 

 

Great post. I don't know what the seasonal attribute stands for either. But I do know that we appreciate the tick and poisonous plants attributes (my husband's poison oak from geocaching became infected and need medical treatment and steroids). We will no longer find caches with these warnings or caches where we have to bushwhack. Actually, "bushwhacking" would be a good addition to the attributes unless it's there already. I don't remember seeing it.  I thought of some more symbols for new attributes. Will post them later. 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Rikitan said:

 

Good points. I agree with you.

Website is not helpful either, it does not provide any explanation when some attribute should be used, and when not. 

Most often I see it with Seasonal cache attribute, so many local owners understand it as available in all seasons. Just from top of my head. 

There's more important work to do, not only expanding the list, but as you said, streamlining, get to common understanding, etc.

 

I think another attribute to add is bushwacking required. We will no longer bushwack to find a cache and make sure our caches require no bushwacking. 

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3 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

So, I'm sitting here watching the news and drinking a freshly made veggie smoothie and it dawned on me what a great symbol to let geocachers know it's a good hide for walking or running for exercise and heart health! 

How is this different from the existing terrain rating? Or from just looking at the map to see which caches are near your jogging trail?

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1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I think another attribute to add is bushwacking required.

We will no longer bushwack to find a cache and make sure our caches require no bushwacking. 

 

"Bushwhacking" simply means off-trail navigation . 

We go to mowed and maintained parks, and still have to "bushwhack"  from trail to the cache.    :) 

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Still being unable to actually search for attributes makes them less useful (even in mobile apps). Their only use really is that they're shown on cache listings, and filterable in PQs.  So their value (as initially intended, afaik) as useful filters is extremely limited and likely highly unused relatively speaking in today's general framework and community, and I'd also agree that not many people in the grand scheme likely even look at them at all until needing a tip or clue.  I sometimes glance at them, but as mentioned, their inconsistent use doesn't make me want to rely on them too heavily. They can be a slight guide, but that's about it.

 

And many of these suggestions could just be added to the description (and might be more effective there anyway) since the most value one could get from them, really, is the visible icon on the listing as an indicator. A descriptive explanation would be more helpful.

 

Of course that assumes people read the description, and there's also so much less of that happening these days too :P

 

ETA: Without having played around with other apps, Cachly does at least allow filtering its offline lists by attribute, but of course it requires having already downloaded all the cache listings you might want to search through.

Edited by thebruce0
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