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boisestate

Posting a DNF on a virtual cache?

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New to posting on this forum (so don't blast me) but I had a random cache log that made me think...Huh?

Our account was one of the recipients of the new Virtual Rewards. We have already placed the Virtual cache and it's already had a few logs - great.

This morning I noticed a cacher posted a DNF on the Virtual Cache indicating in the log they didn't have the time...maybe on the next trip.

Not the biggest deal, we just haven't ran across anything like this especially since we are new to owning / managing a virtual cache.  I know the rules and laws to geocaching are relatively loose and self governed but would this be considered good caching etiquette and/or should the log be deleted...or does anyone care?  I just thought I'd ask the pros out there in the forum world.

Any thoughts?

 

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There are times a DNF on a virtual make sense. For example, I'll log a DNF if I visit the virtual but, for one reason or another, when I get home I discover I didn't actually satisfy the requirement.

The DNF you're talking about isn't quite like that, of course. It sounds more like they saw the virtual listed but didn't have time to stop and take the hike to GZ. If I wanted to log something like that, I'd log a note, but I guess I can seem someone calling it a DNF. But I don't think most people would, so I wouldn't expect it to happen very often.

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I've logged a DNF on an EarthCache before, so I think it can be reasonable to log a DNF on a virtual cache. In my case, I was at the site, and I started working on the logging requirements for the EarthCache, but I didn't complete them.

Since your virtual cache's logging requirement is just a photo, it does seem a bit odd to be close enough that the trip is worthy of a log, but to be unable to complete the logging requirement. But there are people who post DNF logs as soon as they start heading towards the cache location, even if they never actually reach GZ. Maybe this is one of those cases.

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Yeah...that totally makes sense.  Maybe the cacher had started the hike to GZ and had to leave early for whatever reason - hence the DNF.  Good point - thanks.

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We've seen people log DNF because they didn't really attempt, as well as some who didn't meet the requirements.  Neither make sense to me.

 You completed the Virtual or not.  Simple. No reason to "explain"...

"Hope to pick up that smiley next trip up this way  When i am Visiting family  first two DNF new virtual. Hope they bring back virtuals on a permanent basis DNF" sounds (to me) to be the first, never even attempted, just wanted to be  first to DNF for some odd reason.

I'd just consider the source on those types, taking the high road and let it go.    :)

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That log is certainly what I'd consider "odd".  It appears that the cacher included your cache on one of their bookmark lists, and they posted similar DNF logs on other virtuals today:

Didn't find it
09/20/2017

WILL BE GRABING THAT SMILEY SOONISH
I'll be claiming that fine shortly? When I visit family
Hope they bring back virtuals on a permanent basis .DNF

 

Didn't find it
09/20/2017

when I get back into town I'll be claiming a find.
BE CLAIMING THAT FIND SOONISH
They should bring back virtuals on a more permanent basis it's good they brought virtuals back temporarily DNF

 

This next log was used on three different virtuals

Didn't find it
09/20/2017

Hope to pick up that smiley next trip up this way
When i am Visiting family
first two DNF new virtual. Hope they bring back virtuals on a permanent basis DNF

They also posted a DNF on a Webcam cache that they couldn't get to because of a fire evacuation in the area. The fire didn't affect the webcam, as other cachers 'found' it afterwards.

 

Personally, I would delete their DNF log if it was my virtual cache.  They've posted DNF's on virtual caches from Idaho to Oregon to California to North Carolina all on the same day, so it doesn't seem like they actually were there and couldn't find it.  It seems like they're just logging DNF's to then add the cache to some bookmark list.  To me, that's not the purpose of a DNF and I'd want to discourage such behavior.  The cacher's profile indicates that they have a learning disability, so I'd also contact the CO and explain nicely to them the reason that I deleted their DNF log and leave the door open to any questions they might have.

Edited by noncentric

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1 hour ago, noncentric said:

Personally, I would delete their DNF log if it was my virtual cache.  They've posted DNF's on virtual caches from Idaho to Oregon to California to North Carolina all on the same day, so it doesn't seem like they actually were there and couldn't find it. 

This seems to be a way to cheat. Some time afterwards the log type silently changes to "Found" without any notification to the CO.

Edited by arisoft
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Yeah it should have been a note. DID NOT FIND! means that. DNF when you didn't even try it doesn't make sense. If it were me I would either contact the cacher and ask them to change it to a note or delete it as it is not a Found message, you can.

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7 hours ago, jellis said:

Yeah it should have been a note. DID NOT FIND! means that. DNF when you didn't even try it doesn't make sense. If it were me I would either contact the cacher and ask them to change it to a note or delete it as it is not a Found message, you can.

I agree it should have been a Note if anything...but asking them to change it or deleting it seems a bit silly too.  Who does it hurt?  Maybe they want the blue smilie to show up on their map as a reminder to go for it again.  

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I don't see a problem, if you really are bothered by the DNF, in contacting them nicely and respectfully to ask if they'd be willing to change it to a note. It can't hurt.

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2 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

I agree it should have been a Note if anything...but asking them to change it or deleting it seems a bit silly too.  Who does it hurt?  Maybe they want the blue smilie to show up on their map as a reminder to go for it again.  

It'll impact their geocache health score won't it?

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14 minutes ago, Blue Square Thing said:

It'll impact their geocache health score won't it?

That is completely irrelevant to me.  I don't give that stuff a second thought.

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22 hours ago, boisestate said:

Yeah...that totally makes sense.  Maybe the cacher had started the hike to GZ and had to leave early for whatever reason - hence the DNF.  Good point - thanks.

 

Sorry, but why not just contact the person and ask?

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55 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:

That is completely irrelevant to me.  I don't give that stuff a second thought.

You might not, but someone else might.

Given part of the algorithm to have been awarded a virtual cache was related to geocache health score, perhaps more people might?

I doubt it of course, but by reducing DNF logs maybe you increase your health score and encourage rewards in future?

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On 9/20/2017 at 1:12 PM, niraD said:

I've logged a DNF on an EarthCache before, so I think it can be reasonable to log a DNF on a virtual cache. In my case, I was at the site, and I started working on the logging requirements for the EarthCache, but I didn't complete them.

Since your virtual cache's logging requirement is just a photo, it does seem a bit odd to be close enough that the trip is worthy of a log, but to be unable to complete the logging requirement. But there are people who post DNF logs as soon as they start heading towards the cache location, even if they never actually reach GZ. Maybe this is one of those cases.

I could have logged an DNF on an earth cache once but it didn't feel like the right log.   I was at GZ and completed most of the criteria, but I didn't know at the time that there was actually an earthcache there (I discovered it later when I was logging two other caches nearby).  Since I didn't "search" for the cache and hadn't done all of the criteria I didn't log it at all.  

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21 hours ago, Blue Square Thing said:

You might not, but someone else might.

Given part of the algorithm to have been awarded a virtual cache was related to geocache health score, perhaps more people might?

I doubt it of course, but by reducing DNF logs maybe you increase your health score and encourage rewards in future?

If Groundspeak chose to make a person's inability to find a cache a reflection on the OWNER of that cache, then there's nothing I can really do about it...aside from hiding only LPCs from now on.  I don't consider the "cache health score" a valid method.  Doesn't mean they won't use it...I just don't give it any value whatsoever.  

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2 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

If Groundspeak chose to make a person's inability to find a cache a reflection on the OWNER of that cache, then there's nothing I can really do about it...aside from hiding only LPCs from now on.  I don't consider the "cache health score" a valid method.  Doesn't mean they won't use it...I just don't give it any value whatsoever.  

I don't disagree with you. I understand how the health score might be useful to figure out who doesn't maintain caches at all, but I'm not sure of its use beyond that.

Mind you, I'm not sure favourite points cut the mustard either - but I've no idea what else they could do.

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Fellow goecachers...thanks for the diverse feedback on this topic.  It was really good to hear all of your perspectives.  We ended up messaging the cacher that posted to DNF to request that the log be changed from a DNF to "note".  As a result, the cacher ended up deleting the DNF log entirely.  Just an FYI
 

Edited by boisestate

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On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 0:53 PM, boisestate said:

 

New to posting on this forum (so don't blast me) but I had a random cache log that made me think...Huh?

Our account was one of the recipients of the new Virtual Rewards. We have already placed the Virtual cache and it's already had a few logs - great.

This morning I noticed a cacher posted a DNF on the Virtual Cache indicating in the log they didn't have the time...maybe on the next trip.

Not the biggest deal, we just haven't ran across anything like this especially since we are new to owning / managing a virtual cache.  I know the rules and laws to geocaching are relatively loose and self governed but would this be considered good caching etiquette and/or should the log be deleted...or does anyone care?  I just thought I'd ask the pros out there in the forum world.

Any thoughts?

 

 

There's a local Virtual Cache with DNFs, so maybe that will help.  One of the DNFs was from me. Several DNFs from other cachers are specifically about not having enough time. It's supposedly time-consuming, and depending on your travel plans, it could be tough to work into one's schedule.

It's a strange cache, listed as D4.5/T5, which made me very nervous.  It seemed easily found my the vast majority who attempt it, do they all PAF or something?  The icon is on the roof at the center of a building, and the route to the cache is what supposedly makes it hard.  The object is to locate a sign and email the sign info.  My biggest concern was, since GZ is dead-center on the building, I don't know on which side of the building I'm supposed to be, to see the sign.  So I need to be sure I know the correct route, which I don't know.  I kinda expected all the pieces would fall into place as I arrived, and it would all make sense.  Nope.

I wanted to go the D4.5/T5 route to the cache, not the easy way.  But... there's "one way"?   I'm mystified to this day.  Remember one thing: "D4.5/T5"

I got to about 200 feet from GZ, and now what?  Am I there? Am I supposed to be closer? That drive was too easy. I did it wrong... right?!  Do I just pick a sign?  I'm stuck.  I do not understand this cache.  At all. I filed my DNF, kicking myself for attempting it.  I knew this would happen.  Note to self: No more surreal caches.  What other log could it be?  A "Note Log"?  No log at all?  There are other DNFs, so that kind of log must be OK.  DNF it is.  I Didn't Find It, and more importantly, likely will never find it: DNF.  Did Not Find, that should be a DNF log.  Makes sense to me.

The CO contacted me, amazed that I failed at such an easy task.  Obviously for a Virtual Cache, you get to a reasonable distance from GZ (yeah, not on the roof), log the find. 

Um, wait.  That's it?!

So in conclusion, if I'm attempting it, a cache page that absolutely confuses me may cause a DNF log, if I cannot even tell when or if I have "found it" (such as the distance from GZ where the Find occurs, or never experiencing the "impossibly difficult route" that is actually just one turn off the road).  For everyone else, sure, if they thought they had enough time, yet spent extra time to travel to that cache and still couldn't manage to get there, they might log a DNF.  That sounds good.  Next time I'll cut my losses and say "I didn't have enough time", rather than admit for all the world to see, that I'm an idiot.  And of course I'll never mention it, and never attempt it again. B)

I hope that helps! :anicute:

Edited by kunarion

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In the case that the OP posed, it seemed to be someone couch logging DNF's. But it got me wondering about my DNF's.

I looked and saw that I've DNF'd seven Virtuals, and six EC's. I have a tendency to think about caching in black and white: either you find a cache, or you don't. So if I'm near a cache and can't get to it for whatever reason, I log a DNF.

It's late at night right now, and I decided to write out my DNF's - please indulge me. No one has to read the rest of this post. ;)

Virtuals:

1. Last stop for a weary traveler Oh, my goodness, this one made me angry. I didn't have much info for what I was looking for, and our coordinates just took us to a tree in the middle of the park (I know now that we were maybe 100' - 200' from the cache site). I thought that maybe someone was playing fast and loose with their cache coords, due to some cache log comments. We tried it again five years later, and I wonder if the coordinates were updated, because we went right to the correct place and had no problem finding it.

2. Garden Art Walk We were visiting AZ and tried to do this virtual, but didn't realize how detailed it was: it was a four part multi. I think I did two stages, but we were in a bit of a hurry and I wasn't feeling well, so didn't complete it.

3. Escape From Alcatraz I was really disappointed about this one. I was excited to visit Alcatraz, and knew that it wouldn't happen again, so I wanted to get both caches there. But this one was another multi Virtual, which I didn't realize until we got there. I hadn't brought my gps to the island because I was trying to be lightweight. This was five years ago, and I couldn't figure out how to find different coordinates with my phone. And, cell reception was non-existent in places. I spent way too much time stressing about this, trying to get reception, trying to find an app to get coordinates with, etc. I knew that I went to some of the stages and could answer some questions because of the what they said in the description, but couldn't do all of them.

4. Santa Barbara Court House I've been to this one twice, specifically to find this Virtual. It's located inside the courthouse, and both times that we visited it was just after hours. Argh.

5. California Hoax Another multi Virt. I think this is my downfall on trips. I had the info for the cache on GSAK, but I was having issues with my computer. I tried using a cell phone, but the reception was bad. Again. I tried going by the questions, and was able to get some of the answers along a loop walk, but not all of them.

6. The Highest Leaping Waterfall in the World Yet another mulit Virt! This one was in a National Park with no cell service (it had escaped my PQ somehow!) and I only got maybe two out of three questions.

7. Lake Cd'A Super-Viewpoint We drove a fair ways to get to this Virtual, and found that the road to it had a private property sign. We drove all around the area and could not find another entrance. I stated this in my DNF, someone else disagreed with me and said there was a way in, lots of other people DNF'd it, and it was archived due to lack of CO involvement about the issue.

Needless to say, I no longer even attempt Virtual multis while on trips anymore. It just makes me mad, and that's not what I want on vacation. I'm with my husband who can get cranky sometimes about caching, so I can't mess too much with fussy caching.

Earth Caches:

1. What's Behind Multnomah Falls Ha, another multi! Curses! :laughing:  It was winter and we didn't realize how much we would have to walk to get the stages, and were worried about ice. We came back three years later and finished the multi then.

2. Moses Coulee Flood Bar Earthcache I was driving by this as it was getting dark, and tried to make it before it was too dark. I could see somewhat, but not enough to feel comfortable logging it and answering all the questions. I was able to log it later during the day. It's definitely one that needs to be done in the light, to appreciate the vastness of the area.

3. Skull of Tafoni We came to this EC just as we were about to exit the park. I realized then that one of the requirements was to find other formations like the EC in other parts of the park and email the coords. As we were leaving the park, that was impossible to do. Yes, I got a bit cranky. :rolleyes: We were able to finish the EC this spring. Made me feel better.

4. El Capitan Moraine – The Lake Yosemite Dam The weirdest EC situation I've been in. We got to the coordinates, and it was clear we were in the correct place. But the question didn't make sense. There just wasn't anything there that was described in the question. I thought that maybe I was going crazy. No one else said they had issues in the logs. It was a bit of a bizarre feeling and situation - what were we missing??? We will never know! :blink:

5. Lime Kiln Point Quarry and Kilns Ha, I tried doing this EC from a boat, because the lime kiln was right next to the water. Really cool history and geology. I couldn't answer one question, however, because it was info from a sign on land.

6. Karpata I'm not sure if I'll log this. I could write a note, but notes disappear, when DNF's do not. And I want the info to be there for me. This one was a SCUBA cache that my husband did. I went to the spot, but did not dive. I went on a dive earlier in the trip and tuckered myself out. Ah, I wanted to do a SCUBA cache finally! But I didn't realize that I would use up all my energy on my first dive. :(

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On 9/21/2017 at 0:34 AM, jellis said:

Yeah it should have been a note. DID NOT FIND! means that. DNF when you didn't even try it doesn't make sense. If it were me I would either contact the cacher and ask them to change it to a note or delete it as it is not a Found message, you can.

 

On 9/21/2017 at 8:10 AM, J Grouchy said:

I agree it should have been a Note if anything...but asking them to change it or deleting it seems a bit silly too.  Who does it hurt?  Maybe they want the blue smilie to show up on their map as a reminder to go for it again.  

Sounds like a note was in order but as J Grouchy stated, why the worry about it? There are many reasons that people log DNFs. Some of the reasons may seem silly to you and i but make perfect sense to the person logging them.

 

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On 9/30/2017 at 10:24 AM, Mudfrog said:

Sounds like a note was in order but as J Grouchy stated, why the worry about it? There are many reasons that people log DNFs. Some of the reasons may seem silly to you and i but make perfect sense to the person logging them.

That was my thought at first, but arisoft makes a good point.

On 9/20/2017 at 4:34 PM, arisoft said:

This seems to be a way to cheat. Some time afterwards the log type silently changes to "Found" without any notification to the CO.

 

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23 hours ago, hzoi said:

That was my thought at first, but arisoft makes a good point.

 

Well...that could just as easily apply to Notes.  You either police your own cache's logs or you don't...but I wouldn't delete any log for any reason other than an obviously false find or objectionable or spoilerific content.

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5 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:
On 10/2/2017 at 0:01 PM, hzoi said:

That was my thought at first, but arisoft makes a good point.

 

Well...that could just as easily apply to Notes.  You either police your own cache's logs or you don't...but I wouldn't delete any log for any reason other than an obviously false find or objectionable or spoilerific content.

Sure, and I wasn't necessarily saying I'd delete a DNF.  I just won't laugh it off next time. 

Of course, I'm a paying member for project-gc and will get an email update if someone edits a note or DNF into a found it log after the fact, but not everyone will.

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