Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5
cachychris

Abandoned

Recommended Posts

In my local area there 3 what appear to be abandoned Caches, yes there are remnants, but nothing really. My question is, as a local person can I take over these Caches and maintain them, clearly the owner is either long gone or has no more interest. 

The Caches is question are: GC11TY9 - GC11TYH - GC22TYV

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, crj51 said:

My question is, as a local person can I take over these Caches and maintain them...

 

First you should try to contact the owner, asking to Adopt those caches.

You can always take care of any cache (except replacing in full, without the owners authorization), but the cache will remain property of the original owner.

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, crj51 said:

Thanks and if as I suspect I get no reply ?

 

 

Log a Needs Maintenance log on the cache now saying it's in bad order.

If after 1-2 weeks the CO has done nothing then log a Needs Archived stating that it's not being maintained and the CO appears to be nolonger active.

A reviewer should temporarily disable it, and eventually archive it if the CO does nothing.

If you think the spot is worth having a cache then you can then place your own cache at that spot. If you really want it to be your cache at that spot then you could prepare a cache page now, but don't submit it, which should avoid anyone else claim-jumping on you.

 

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, crj51 said:

GC22TYV

This one is in Germany and is already Archived.  Did you intend to post a different cache ID code?

Share this post


Link to post
57 minutes ago, crj51 said:

In my local area there 3 what appear to be abandoned Caches, yes there are remnants, but nothing really. My question is, as a local person can I take over these Caches and maintain them, clearly the owner is either long gone or has no more interest. 

The Caches is question are: GC11TY9 - GC11TYH - GC22TYV

 

As an example, GC11TY9 had a missing lid for the past 3 years, when the NM was logged.  Also, there's a mention of a nearby homeless camp.  If you decide that's where you wish to bring cachers, by adopting the cache or creating a new cache at that spot, prepare for more maintenance issues.

Edited by kunarion
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, crj51 said:

Do I need to wait to its been archived, whats my next step, Im new to this

 

 

You can create your cache page now, but don't submit it for publication, which will stake your claim to the spot. Then do the NM/NA logs as above. Once a reviewer has archived the cache you can place your own container and submit yours for publication.

 

 

Edited by MartyBartfast
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Im sure that there may have been some homeless people near by, but homeless camp Im not sure, walk that way frequently and never seen any like you describe. In fact all 3 caches are located on a really nice walking trial in a very nice up market area. But that thanks for the concern.

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, crj51 said:

Do I need to wait to its been archived, whats my next step, Im new to this

 

 

As mentioned, you could create a new cache page, and save it, not submit for review.  Once a cache is archived, place a suitable container and then submit the page for review.  If the area has changed over the years, and the old GZ is not really "hidden" anymore, a new nearby spot is probably better, with new coords.

Read the info on hiding caches: https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines

Edited by kunarion
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

 

You can create your cache page now, but don't submit it for publication, which will stake your claim to the spot. Then do the NM/NA logs as above. Once a reviewer has archived the cache you can place your own container and submit yours for publication.

 

 

Thanks, enjoy your weekend

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, crj51 said:

Do I need to wait to its been archived, whats my next step, Im new to this

 

1. Look for cache and log a Note or a Find depending on how you feel about it (looks like there are some remnants on the first two Listings that people are logging).

2. Post a Needs Maintenance.

3. If the cache owner doesn't respond on the Listing page, I would follow up with a Needs Archived log.  This will alert the local Reviewer that some attention is needed.

4. If the Reviewer decides that some action is required, they will most likely Disable the Listing for 30 days (+/-) to give the cache owner the opportunity to address the issue.

5. If everything goes as intended, the cache gets Archived, and the spot is open for a new cache placement.  At that point, you could clean up the remnants of the old caches, place one of your own, and submit a new Listing for Review.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

1. Look for cache and log a Note or a Find depending on how you feel about it (looks like there are some remnants on the first two Listings that people are logging).

2. Post a Needs Maintenance.

3. If the cache owner doesn't respond on the Listing page, I would follow up with a Needs Archived log.  This will alert the local Reviewer that some attention is needed.

4. If the Reviewer decides that some action is required, they will most likely Disable the Listing for 30 days (+/-) to give the cache owner the opportunity to address the issue.

5. If everything goes as intended, the cache gets Archived, and the spot is open for a new cache placement.  At that point, you could clean up the remnants of the old caches, place one of your own, and submit a new Listing for Review.

 

Thanks, lots of great help on this Forum. Im loving Caching 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

I love the enthusiasm of new cachers. 2 finds in 10 days and loving the hobby enough to attempt the responsibility of cache ownership! We need more like this!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, cachychris said:

In my local area there 3 what appear to be abandoned Caches, yes there are remnants, but nothing really. My question is, as a local person can I take over these Caches and maintain them, clearly the owner is either long gone or has no more interest. 

The first cache seems to be totally destroyed but still easy to find as so many geocachers has logged "found" instead of DNF. :blink:

The second one is more interesting. There is definitely no container and no log but because there is water somewhere, is has logged as "found" :wacko:

Sometimes I have proposed a light maintenance, if part of the cache is missing etc.but in this case both of them needs basically everything.

Asking for adoption is the best way to operate. Sometimes the owner responds to adoption request. Maybe you can try other channels to get attention, like someone who knows the owner. Waiting for archiving may take too long to be practical solution.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, cachychris said:

In my local area there 3 what appear to be abandoned Caches, yes there are remnants, but nothing really. My question is, as a local person can I take over these Caches and maintain them, clearly the owner is either long gone or has no more interest. 

I kinda agree with Touchstone, I wouldn't "help" someone not making any effort to fix issues themselves.

Maybe more caches than they can handle, CO is still logging into the site and attended an event in July of this year. 

Both caches with maintenance issues for some time.  How can someone "find" a lid?  Hope they signed it...   :D

With the NM from today, if you saw the poor condition they're in yourself, log a NM too, or may be time for an NA.   :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, K13 said:

I love the enthusiasm of new cachers. 2 finds in 10 days and loving the hobby enough to attempt the responsibility of cache ownership! We need more like this!

:huh:

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, cachychris said:

Thanks and if as I suspect I get no reply ?

 

 

The owner is active and owns well over 100 listings, so you may get a response. Good luck.:)

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

I wouldn't "help" someone not making any effort to fix issues themselves.

Generally, why? Or may be the right question is: Do you feel better when you do not help your neighbor?

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Generally, why? Or may be the right question is: Do you feel better when you do not help your neighbor?

Helping my a neighbor is one thing, enabling cache owners who don't practice maintenance is entirely different.

  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Generally, why? Or may be the right question is: Do you feel better when you do not help your neighbor?

When a cache has logs dating years saying it has issues, I don't feel I should be the one to further influence their bad habits, thanks....

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Generally, why? Or may be the right question is: Do you feel better when you do not help your neighbor?

 

Can I expect to list my geocaches here and not ever have to sign back into this site again? We didn't use to have this throwdown mentality when I started geocaching, and corresponded with one another without message center. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, K13 said:

Helping my a neighbor is one thing, enabling cache owners who don't practice maintenance is entirely different.

Because cache owners are bad people?

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Generally, why? Or may be the right question is: Do you feel better when you do not help your neighbor?

Helping neighbors is the neighborly thing to do. I'm all for it. For instance, i've been pretty busy around here helping others left in bad shape after Harvey's flooding. But at the same time, i'm not going to try and help someone that doesn't care and does nothing to help himself.

For the OP, if you've been to a cache site and think that a cache needs help, file the needs maintenance. If you're really concerned about the cache. then you can check again in a couple of weeks to see if the owner has made any attempt at response. No response, then you could always try an email to see about adoption,, if you're interested. If not, you can log a needs archived. Make sure to give pertinent information in the log to help the reviewer with his assessment of the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

Helping neighbors is the neighborly thing to do. I'm all for it. For instance, i've been pretty busy around here helping others left in bad shape after Harvey's flooding. But at the same time, i'm not going to try and help someone that doesn't care and does nothing to help himself.

When you take care of the cache, then you do a favor for those who come to search for it. Beginners are generally more willing to help because they have not yet generated the hatred of cache owners, which for some cachers seem to be dominant. At some point, apparently, the help is no longer to be given because it is felt that it is more important to punish the cache owner than to offer a pleasant experience for the cache seekers.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Because cache owners are bad people?

No, owning a cache automatically makes you one of the good guys. No matter if you asked for permisson, irritate wildlife, disturb neighbours or give a crap abut some junk with a piece of paper in it you left some time ago somewhere.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, arisoft said:

When you take care of the cache, then you do a favor for those who come to search for it. Beginners are generally more willing to help because they have not yet generated the hatred of cache owners, which for some cachers seem to be dominant. At some point, apparently, the help is no longer to be given because it is felt that it is more important to punish the cache owner than to offer a pleasant experience for the cache seekers.

I disagree...

Many beginners, elated about the new hobby they've taken up, try to "fit in" by doing the same as they see in logs or caching with another.

We know of a couple cachers met at events who thought throwdowns, and  never logging NM when a cache needed it was "the way things are done here".

 - Those folks often learn differently though, when  finding out that there's such a thing as guidelines, that they're there to benefit the hobby and our relationship with the community, and many then have a independent opinion on how some in their area behave.     :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, arisoft said:

When you take care of the cache, then you do a favor for those who come to search for it. Beginners are generally more willing to help because they have not yet generated the hatred of cache owners, which for some cachers seem to be dominant. At some point, apparently, the help is no longer to be given because it is felt that it is more important to punish the cache owner than to offer a pleasant experience for the cache seekers.

If a cache owner has disappeared or is not responsible with their caches (letting them get to the state that these are in), the best help would seem to be to have the unmaintained caches archived. Then someone who cares an iota about the cache quality can place new caches, giving an even more pleasant experience for cache seekers.

Edit to add: It's not about punishing cache owners, but about providing the best experience for finders.

Edited by TriciaG
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Many beginners, elated about the new hobby they've taken up, try to "fit in" by doing the same as they see in logs or caching with another.

This is exactly what I mean. Until beginners are "fitted in", they may use more common sense. When a beginner sees that there is no pencil in the cache, he may put in one. Afterwards he may learn from others that the cache owner must be punished about placing the cache and he must serve you.

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Many beginners, elated about the new hobby they've taken up, try to "fit in" by doing the same as they see in logs or caching with another.

We know of a couple cachers met at events who thought throwdowns, and  never logging NM when a cache needed it was "the way things are done here".

 - Those folks often learn differently though, when  finding out that there's such a thing as guidelines, that they're there to benefit the hobby and our relationship with the community, and many then have a independent opinion on how some in their area behave.     :)

25 minutes ago, arisoft said:

This is exactly what I mean. Until beginners are "fitted in", they may use more common sense. When a beginner sees that there is no pencil in the cache, he may put in one. Afterwards he may learn from others that the cache owner must be punished about placing the cache and he must serve you.

I'm not so sure you do. I don't know what situations you've experienced that got you thinking like that, but I don't see failing to aid a neglected cache a form of punishment to anybody.   :D

 

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, arisoft said:

Generally, why? Or may be the right question is: Do you feel better when you do not help your neighbor?

So, my neighbor's grass is 2 feet high. He's a perfectly healthy 40 year old but keeps saying he doesn't have time to mow the lawn. Every evening he's in front of the TV. I'm out cutting my own grass, would it be the neighborly thing to do to cut his grass? Would my neighbors think it was a good thing that I cut his grass while he watched another 4 hours of Netflix? Would my other neighbors get all gong ho about taking turns cutting his grass? 

I think it's more likely the neighbors will get together and discuss who amongst us is going to call city hall and have the city light a fire under his lazy behind. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, arisoft said:

When you take care of the cache, then you do a favor for those who come to search for it.

No way.

I hate to find throwdowns and abandoned caches. I hate playing an irresponsible game of litter. 

Edited by L0ne.R
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, arisoft said:

than to offer a pleasant experience for the cache seekers.

Are you kidding me? Most throwdowns or "helping" involves leaving a cheap leaky container (pill bottle, film canister, knock-off bison tube). And log replacement involves adding a piece of paper (never a logbook) to a cache where the logs say, "wet" or "too soaked to sign". So the new log ends up wet/soaked too. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post

There is no punishing of a cache owner, nor of the searchers, if an unmaintained geocache is archived. Actually, if the location is worthy of a cache, another (hopefully more attentive) cache owner to place a cache in that place.

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
53 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:
2 hours ago, arisoft said:

When you take care of the cache, then you do a favor for those who come to search for it.

No way.

I hate to find throwdowns and abandoned caches. I hate playing an irresponsible game of litter. 

You got the point! When every good geocacher ceases to do even simplest possible maintenance tasks then some evil geocacher does the throwdown trick.

The next time you see a litter in the cache or nearby, why don't you bring it to the nearest trash can?

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, arisoft said:

You got the point! When every good geocacher ceases to do even simplest possible maintenance tasks then some evil geocacher does the throwdown trick.

The next time you see a litter in the cache or nearby, why don't you bring it to the nearest trash can?

Huh? I don't get the connection between what I said and what you conclude. I suppose I could bring the abandoned, propped-up, junk cache to the trash can. 

Perhaps you mean: 'When every good geocache owner ceases to do even simplest possible maintenance tasks then some evil geocacher does the throwdown trick.'

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, arisoft said:

The next time you see a litter in the cache or nearby, why don't you bring it to the nearest trash can?

 

I do that with wet soggy geocaches, and log a DNF. :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, arisoft said:

When you take care of the cache, then you do a favor for those who come to search for it. Beginners are generally more willing to help because they have not yet generated the hatred of cache owners, which for some cachers seem to be dominant. At some point, apparently, the help is no longer to be given because it is felt that it is more important to punish the cache owner than to offer a pleasant experience for the cache seekers.

There's so much about this that I disagree with, but I'll start by agreeing that putting a temporary log into a cache and then writing an NM to tell the CO what you have done is a favour to both the CO and future searchers.  At least for the short term.

However, if you happen to have a nice container, of the right size and appropriate for the stated difficulty, together with a new log book, a new pencil and some starter swag and you put those down in place of a broken neglected container owned by a CO who is out of the game, you are only propping up the area for a short while until your replacement goes bad.  You would be doing future seekers a much greater favour by starting the archive process on the junk and putting your nice new container somewhere that you will be willing to maintain it for the long term.

I also have to disagree with your contention that there is a significant level of hatred towards cache owners and a desire to punish cache owners here.  There is a dislike of those cache owners whose maintenance plan is to dump and forget, there is disdain for those cache owners who dump far more containers than they can manage.  But how can you punish a cache owner who gave up the game and hasn't logged into the site or the forums for two years or more?

Edited by Gill & Tony
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

Huh? I don't get the connection between what I said and what you conclude. I suppose I could bring the abandoned, propped-up, junk cache to the trash can. 

I see that we are pretty well on the same page. So... why not?

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Gill & Tony said:

There's so much about this that I disagree with, but I'll start by agreeing that putting a temporary log into a cache and then writing an NM to tell the CO what you have done is a favour to both the CO and future searchers.  At least for the short term.

If you do this properly there is no need to write NM emergency call after you have fixed the problem. Instead of adding cash receipt with your name on it, you could add an entire sheet of paper folded into its own bag to keep it dry. Of course, you do this only when you want to preserve the cache to the delight of other seekers. I have found caches that have been treated this way and I can not say I was in any way disappointed.

Edited by arisoft

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Of course, you do this only when you want preserve the cache to the delight of other seekers.

I agree with Gill & Tony, much better to have this unmaintained cache removed and replace it with a fresh one with some clean and dry contents, which will be properly maintained and will be much more of a delight.

Ultimately, propping up old leaky caches which are nolonger being looked after by the CO isn't doing anyone any favours,  except for a few special situations it's much better to get rid of them so they can be replaced by new caches which will be maintained properly.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, arisoft said:

If you do this properly there is no need to write NM emergency call after you have fixed the problem. 

But an NM isn't an emergency call.  It simply tells the CO that there is (was) a problem with their cache.  Whatever you do is a temporary fix and it is only polite to give the CO the opportunity to make a permanent one

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

Ultimately, propping up old leaky caches which are nolonger being looked after by the CO isn't doing anyone any favours,  except for a few special situations it's much better to get rid of them so they can be replaced by new caches which will be maintained properly.

How did you come to that full logbook means old leaky cache which is no longer being looked after by the CO?

Hole in the container requires another kind of action. For example squirrels often eat a bottle cap. Only a new cap is needed to correct this. You can get them free from empty drinking bottles. No need to call ambulance.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

But an NM isn't an emergency call.  It simply tells the CO that there is (was) a problem with their cache.  Whatever you do is a temporary fix and it is only polite to give the CO the opportunity to make a permanent one

To remove the unnecessary NM status from the cache, the CO have to write an unnecessary OM log. You can tell the actions you have made in your found log when there is no actions needed by the CO.

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, arisoft said:

To remove the unnecessary NM status from the cache, the CO have to write an unnecessary OM log. You can tell the actions you have made in your found log when there is no actions needed by the CO.

If a logbook was full, the cache needed maintenance.  Therefore the NM status was not unnecessary.  If the CO is present then writing an OM  log is no big drama.  If the CO is AWOL then the NM is the first step in getting rid of an unmaintained cache.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

If a logbook was full, the cache needed maintenance.

If the logbook is not full anymore, the cache do not need maintenance.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, arisoft said:

How did you come to that full logbook means old leaky cache which is no longer being looked after by the CO?

Hmm, I already wrote a reply to this but doesn't appear to be here, I can't be bothered to write the whole thing again with all the quotes so I will summarise:

1. The OP is about caches which have damaged, therefore leaky, containers.

2. Your message I was replying to mentioned putting logs in a bag to keep them dry, therefore most likely a leaky container is involved.

3. Gill & Tony's message which you yourself was replying to mentioned damaged leaky containers and absentee COs.

4. Almost all of this thread is about getting caches which are in poor conditon with absentee COs removed.

5. Nobody (apart from the first reply in the thread) has mentioned full logbooks up until now.


I think you are having a different conversation to everyone else.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
52 minutes ago, arisoft said:

If the logbook is not full anymore, the cache do not need maintenance.

And a CO who is active can acknowledge that fact with an OM log.  If the NM goes unanswered then the CO is absent (or doesn't care anymore) and the archive process proceeds as designed.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5

×