How do I set up a private trail?

[maxfrost0606]

I am totally new to geocaching but it seems to me it could be exactly what I'm looking for.  In December we will be celebrating a special family event at a secret location. I don't want my kids to know where they are going until they get there and I thought geocaching might offer the perfect solution.  The hotel is a couple of hours drive away from home and I thought I could leave a series of caches (waypoints?) so that each would lead to the next until they arrive at the final destination. In this way I'm hoping I could stop them guessing the final destination and have fun.  My kids are all young adults and far more tech-savvy than I am and I think geocaching would really appeal to them.  My wife and I could easily leave an hour or two ahead of them so we would have time to lay a trail but I don't want to have to make a special trip to the hotel and back on a different day (which I think I would have to in order to achieve a 'reverse' trail).  Any ideas how I could make this work?

[+coman123]

Your idea is great about using waypoints to take the kids along the route, however Geocaches need to be in place before submitting for review and would be live for everyone to see.

Once live, you will end up with a bunch of extra guests at your "Special Family event".

 

I think what you may want to do is sent them on a private scavenger hunt using paper clues, sorta like what the amazing race does.

Leave an envelope on your counter with a clue to the next location, so drive to Chucks lunch house and look in the pine tree, you drive ahead and hide the next envelope in the pine tree at chucks leading to the next clue Etc Etc.

This will require you to pre-plan the stops.

The other way to do it is a texting scavenger hunt. (I have did this before and it worked great )

Leave a note saying when everyone is ready to go, text a photo of everyone in the car

 

When you get that text send them the coordinates or clues to the next location you are at with a photo, send them a message, go to these coordinates/location and send me a photo of you here.... You will then be given a text with the next clue.

 

Do this for as many steps as you want.

 

This will get the scavenger hunt like you want and you will also get a bunch of great photos of your kids at diff locations, and you can leave just before them and stay a few miles ahead of them...

 

 

 

[+cerberus1]

Geocaching 101 has a lot of helpful info on how this hobby's played.  

Caches must be available to anyone, and wouldn't be approved just for your kids.

Cache must be  submitted before they're published.  It's not an immediate thing.  Most must include a container with a log.

If me, I'd attempt a few geocaches (after thoroughly reviewing Geocaching 101) just to get the idea that though sounding fun, probably not gonna work as you'd like. 

You can do what you're looking for without this site, by simply marking waypoints at items you'd like the kids to stop (a monument or something), eventually ending where you'd like.  

[+Touchstone]

One creative idea that was put out a few years ago, that is in the spirit of your idea for the kids, was a Reverse Geocache.  The advantage being is that you could just give them one box that they could keep with them, but it would only open at the desired coordinates.  The Groundspeak store used to sell them pre-made, but there are a couple of online "maker" type sites that sell the necessary parts, with instructions, if you're feeling handy.

 

There's also a similar concept implemented on the Wherigo site.

 

 

[+Team Taran]

Alternatively you could select 5 or 6 caches that are already in place that look like fun and lead in the desired direction. You can find them altogether or if you want to travel separately, you could text them the coordinates for the next spot, once they text you that they have found the previous one. . Also there are other gps games available which have different rules which might make the setting up the adventure easier.

 

 

 

[+cerberus1]

8 minutes ago, Team Taran said:

Alternatively you could select 5 or 6 caches that are already in place that look like fun and lead in the desired direction. You can find them altogether or if you want to travel separately, you could text them the coordinates for the next spot, once they text you that they have found the previous one. . Also there are other gps games available which have different rules which might make the setting up the adventure easier.

Though if none are members at the time (the OP isn't sure, or they wouldn't say " I think geocaching would really appeal to them"), I'd hope each at least knew the basics before accessing other's property, playing a "game" they may not really  be interested in...

[+niraD]

FWIW, it's possible to convert a private set of locations/clues into a public geocache after the private event has taken place. There's a series around here that started life as a private birthday adventure, and was later converted into a public geocache series.

[+Manville Possum]

54 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Though if none are members at the time (the OP isn't sure, or they wouldn't say " I think geocaching would really appeal to them"), I'd hope each at least knew the basics before accessing other's property, playing a "game" they may not really  be interested in...

 

How about the teachers that want private caches on school grounds to teach their students and have no real understanding about geocaching?

[+noncentric]

You could head out early and leave containers at the "waypoint" locations you mentioned. In each container, put a piece of paper that has the coordinates of the next "waypoint". Do this along the entire trail until it takes them to the hotel (final location).

Will your kids be traveling together or separately?  If they will be traveling together, then they could pick up each container as they follow the trail. Otherwise, you would need to pick up each container on your way home after the event.

This can be done without using the geocaching.com website.  Of course, you would still want to make sure that you're not trespassing or breaking any other rules/laws when leaving each container.

How will they navigate to each waypoint without the Geocaching app?  There are plenty of GPS apps available, but they could also simply use the Google Maps app. Just type the coords into the map app and the app should show that location with the red pin on the map.

Alternatively, you could employ a technique often used in multi-caches, which is to ask questions at a waypoint and then use the answers to calculate the next waypoint. For example, leave a container at your house that has pieces of paper with the coordinates of the first waypoint and instructions. The instructions would be something like: "At waypoint 1 there is a sign. The 'established' year on the sign is ABCD. Calculate waypoint 2 as  N 48 23.(A)(A+C)(A+D)  W 120 10.(B-A)(C)(C+C)"   If the year on the sign is 1945, then they should get N 48 23.156 W 120 10.848 for the next waypoint.  The benefit with this approach is that you won't need to leave containers, but you would have to drive the route ahead of time to determine the questions and waypoints, then go home to create the instruction sheet, then go back to the hotel for the event.  So maybe this wouldn't work out after all. Oh well, I'll leave it in this post since I already typed it out.

[+GeoTrekker26]

3 hours ago, noncentric said:

Will your kids be traveling together or separately?  If they will be traveling together, then they could pick up each container as they follow the trail. Otherwise, you would need to pick up each container on your way home after the event.

Not the best training for future geocachers!

[+noncentric]

15 minutes ago, GeoTrekker26 said:

3 hours ago, noncentric said:

Will your kids be traveling together or separately?  If they will be traveling together, then they could pick up each container as they follow the trail. Otherwise, you would need to pick up each container on your way home after the event.

Not the best training for future geocachers!

Good point.

For non-private caches, such as those published on geocaching.com, the containers at waypoint/final locations should be left in place. Hopefully, they'd read a little about the game before playing. Hopefully.

[maxfrost0606]

Firstly, many thanks to all who have responded to my original query.  

There are many great ideas here.  What I take away from all of this is that geocaching does not offer the solution that I'm looking for but something simpler - a trail of gps locations - would do the trick.  That should ensure that my kids can't work out the final destination until they are pretty much there.

I particularly like the idea of leaving the next gps point as a clue but I can't see how I can do this without travelling the 2 hour route (and return) before the event so that I have accurate gps positions.  In short, I don't think I can find out the gps position of a place without physically visiting that place.  Do I have that right?  

I was going to try and use the geocache App to make the exercise work but I think the idea of simply using Google Maps and entering the coordinates is a better idea.

btw - to reassure those who have expressed doubt on my kids ability (and mine) to understand the basic concepts of geocaching can I say that I've read some of the basic principles.  I do "get it" that caches should be replaced in exactly the same spot as they are found, that any item removed must be replaced with something of similar or great value, that the rights of property owners should always be respected.  And I can also assure you that my kids are sufficiently mature, sufficiently smart and sufficiently altruistic to follow these simple rules.  The idea of switching a private trail to a public one is also a great idea but, alas, probably not achievable.

Thanks again for the constructive ideas.  Very much appreciated.

[+coman123]

"In short, I don't think I can find out the gps position of a place without physically visiting that place.  Do I have that right?"

 

Correct, Google Earth/Maps are not accurate enough to just use them.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

15 minutes ago, coman123 said:

"In short, I don't think I can find out the gps position of a place without physically visiting that place.  Do I have that right?"

 

Correct, Google Earth/Maps are not accurate enough to just use them.

Since it sounds like the OP isn't planning on having the caches published, that guideline does not apply.  The advantage, of course, of obtaining the coordinates at the site would be that they'd be for where the "cache" is actually hidden.   Trying to use Google Earth/Maps before hand might provide coordinates to a spot which might appear to be a good spot to hide a container but it might not turn out to be so good once they are at the location.

One option would be to download some existing geocache data  for as many locations as they want to place a cache.  Then the LOC files for each (because the OP isn't a premium member) can be manually edited, to change the coordinates to those locations and even each "cache" a new name.  The easiest way to do that would be to use a waypoint manager such as EasyGPS or Basecamp, which could both export the list of waypoints as a GPX file.

The OP doesn't mention if a handheld GPS or smart phones would used, but if a GPS is used the "fake" geocache data can be copied to it prior to leaving.  If a smart phone is used, that complicates things as they'd have to find a guy to get that fake cache data onto the device.  There are lots of different geocaching apps available and some of them provide the means up loading GPX files directly (not through the API).  Apparently "Looking4Cache" and "Cachly" supports uploading of GPX files from sources other than a PQ (e.g. from a Dropbox file).

[+thebruce0]

I'll describe how I'd do it Geosphere, since I'm not sure what capabilities Geocaching has for dealing with non-GC.com waypoint data.

In Geosphere you can create your own cache entries and waypoints within the app's database. You can alter all of its content and export it as you wish.  In that case, you can create a nearly identical "geocache" listing that you might think was downloaded from GC.com itself. That could be quite practical for the students (to have title, description, properties, D/T ratings, hints, additional waypoints, etc).

If I'm scouting an area, I'll create temporary entries by standing at the location, moving around to average the location, ensure it's as accurate as possible, and store the coordinates. I'll title the listing in a way that describes the spot for my memory, and I might take and attach a photo with the listing for a visible record.

With a series of those created and stored in their own category/group, you can then export as a GPX file, which you could distribute to other people to import and use.

Geosphere does cost $11CAD so in that case it's not as practical, and it's not iOS11 compliant so won't be available on devices that are updated to 11. Is there another app that can employ that same process as straightforward..ly? Not sure... You could of course use Google Maps to navigate to coordinates, but you don't get the geocache listing element, unless you mimick and print off cache listings you've created for them.

Gaining coordinates by satellite map location is helpful for scouting and personal records, but there's definitely no guarantee that the coordinates will be accurate to where you want to hide something. If you're providing coordinates for someone to search, you will definitely want to take coordinates while at the physical location, first hand (unless your hint leaves no question where the cache would be once someone is near the rough coordinates :P).

[+NYPaddleCacher]

You know what would be cool?   Someone could develop a desktop app (which runs on windows or a mac...or even as an online web application) that worked as a full featured waypoint manager.  It should be able to accept the download of a PQ (or a list) or other formats (kml files?) or be to manually enter waypoint data.   It would have multiple "database" like GSAK to manage collections of waypoints in different areas or other critiera (eg. a database of solved or unsolved mystery caches).   It would also support multiple map types for viewing caches in the application. (It would also have companion mobile apps for iPhone and Android (maybe even windows phones) that seemlessly integrate with the desktop apps.  Those apps would also integrate with the GS API so that cache data could be loaded in real time (when there is a cellular or wireless signal).