Kneipp Walk Pools

[+Tante.Hossi]

I don´t know if you have heard about Sebastian Kneipp before, or about his natural health treatment. If not, let me introduce to you this wonderful treatment which is so popular in Europe. Kneipp water cure treatment was founded by a Bavarian, German priest Sebastian Kneipp in the 19th century.

The only thing you need is a so-called Kneipp Walk Pool. This is a small pool with very cold water and some kind of railing to protect you from falling into the water.
You walk barefoot inside the pool with the cold water. Walking like a stork. Allways one foot inside and one foot outside of the water.
This type of water cure helps for good blood circulation.

The international Kneipp Bund (https://kneippworldwide.kneippbund.de/) says it is an assosiation of clubs and members in more than 40 countries, including Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Liechtenstein, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Hungary, Australia, Brazil, Chile, India, Canada, USA.
So it seems to be global.

There exist special Kneipp Walk Pools. This idea is to search for those pools. They can often be found in parks. They are quite common in Europe and maybe in some other parts of the world.

What do you think?
Is this a valid idea? Are they known out there in the world?

[+fi67]

They are quite distinct, easy to identify and usually (i.e. all I have seen yet) with a descriptive sign.

I know about ten of them within twenty miles around home. Maybe there are some more. In my point of view an almost perfect prevalence score, but I have no idea about the global coverage. This association site mentions members in many countries, but having members does not mean that there are also pools that are freely accessible to the public, like the ones around here. Maybe there are pools, but only inside spas, wellness hotels and rehabilitation clinics.

So, I think this is a valid idea from my (local) perspective. Have you ever seen one of them outside continental Europe? If not, it is still worth a try, but you have to prepare for some Nay vote, because of the global criterion.

[+tyzack4]

47 minutes ago, fi67 said:

So, I think this is a valid idea from my (local) perspective. Have you ever seen one of them outside continental Europe? If not, it is still worth a try, but you have to prepare for some Nay vote, because of the global criterion.

In the Middle East there is only one as far as I know, and that is at a spa in Dubai in the UAE. 

I have seen them outside of the euro zone in places such as Hungry.

interesting idea, I hope that there are more dotted around the globe. Good luck.

[vulture1957]

1 hour ago, fi67 said:

So, I think this is a valid idea from my (local) perspective. Have you ever seen one of them outside continental Europe? If not, it is still worth a try, but you have to prepare for some Nay vote, because of the global criterion.

we have categories for Australian Post Offices, German benchmarks, and others that are not international (all the state historical markers!) I can't see denying because of that, unless the rules for new categories has changed to now require international availability.

[+elyob]

I have never heard of this but now I will look for them.

[+fi67]

1 hour ago, vulture1957 said:

we have categories for Australian Post Offices, German benchmarks, and others that are not international (all the state historical markers!) I can't see denying because of that, unless the rules for new categories has changed to now require international availability.

The rules have not changed. There are categories that are older than the rules. So when the criteria became available there were some groups of categories that are generally considered exceptions because of their large number of precedents: Benchmarks, Post Offices, Historical Markers, and Heritage Sites. For all the rest there is the global criterion. But we do not all have a common understanding of this criterion. For some (including myself) this means a category must not be arbitrarily limited to a geographic area, i.e. "Kneipp Pools of Mauretania" would not be a valid category. Others think, the topic of a new category should be available worldwide, at least in the areas where active waymarkers live.

The official guidelines do not explicitly cover this specific point, and I think this is good.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

I am not finding any publicly-accessible Kniepp pools in the USA. They seem to be inside spas and not available to see without paying a hefty fee. 

Also - I think these can fit 100% in the existing Spas category. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Benchmark Blasterz

[+fi67]

4 hours ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

Also - I think these can fit 100% in the existing Spas category. 

A shallow pool with cold water and handrails in the corner of a municipal park; maybe a small metal rack to place your shoes, but that's the luxury edition.

Why should anyone allow that in the Spas category?

[+GeoMaulis]

Perhaps the category should only accept Walk Pools which were bulid and are operated by Kneip associations. These were all outside Spas and puplic swimming pools.I do a short research for the state of Saarland. We have  about 34 Walk Pools which are operated by local Kneip associations.

Edited September 8, 2017 by GeoMaulis

[+Tante.Hossi]

42 minutes ago, GeoMaulis said:

Perhaps the category should only accept Walk Pools which were bulid and are operated by Kneip associations. These were all outside Spas and puplic swimming pools.I do a short research for the state of Saarland. We have  about 34 Walk Pools which are operated by local Kneip associations.

No, I don't want to exclude any of those Kneipp Walk Pools. It would not be a good idea if their are rar in some parts of the world. 

[+Tante.Hossi]

The German Wikipedia says that Sebastian Kneipp was the second best known German in Northern America at the beginning of the 20th century - after Otto von Bismarck.
So the ideas of Sebastian Kneipp seem to be well known in Northern America. Maybe they are forgotten?

His books have been translated into several languages. And are still available today.

[+fi67]

1 hour ago, GeoMaulis said:

Perhaps the category should only accept Walk Pools which were bulid and are operated by Kneip associations. These were all outside Spas and puplic swimming pools.I do a short research for the state of Saarland. We have  about 34 Walk Pools which are operated by local Kneip associations.

Additional limitations is probably not the best strategy against underprevalence.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

The only places I see these pools in the US : (1) in spas (2) in natural-medicine rehabilitation and wellness centers. There are none I can find that are in public parks or that are publicly accessible without buying a spa or rehab session. This is why I think the Kniepp pools can fit in spas A has anyone approached the spa category managers? 

[+GeoMaulis]

3 hours ago, fi67 said:

Additional limitations is probably not the best strategy against underprevalence.

That wasnt my intention. I thought that Walk pools could be clearly demarcated from the spa category on this way.

[+kaschper69]

I like the idea very well.

In our town we also have such a walk pool. However, I unfortunately have never seen it filled with water and the pool is unfortunately also not in a good condition. Would such a pool be allowed or should only be pools allowed, that are actively used? If not, that would be possibly again an additional restriction, as it was already noted bei fi67. 

[vulture1957]

2 hours ago, kaschper69 said:

I like the idea very well.

In our town we also have such a walk pool. However, I unfortunately have never seen it filled with water and the pool is unfortunately also not in a good condition. Would such a pool be allowed or should only be pools allowed, that are actively used? If not, that would be possibly again an additional restriction, as it was already noted bei fi67. 

I'm not an officer in the category, so this would only be my guess. Most categories will take former, abandoned, etc items to document the history of the category. So you might want to take the pictures and start a write-up for your pool, waiting for the category to be approved and published.

[+PISA-caching]

I haven't seen many of them, but at least a few. One was on the side of a trail in the middle of the woods. No entrance fee, no parking lots, no street and no shops. Just a pool to walk through and a basin for a treatment of the arms. See the pictures:

The pool

For treatment of the arms

I think that's a very interesting spot and if there wasn't a geocache nearby I would have never heard about it. I don't really care, whether we can post this location to the spa category or in a new one, but it would be a shame, if we find NO category for such interesting spots.

Almost forgot to mention that I sent a note to RakeInTheCache (leader of the Spa category) to draw his attention to this thread.

Edited September 21, 2017 by PISA-caching

[+RakeInTheCache]

Hi, as the leader of the Spas category I have been asked to weigh in on this discussion. If you had to pick between "Health" or "Wellness" as the objective of these pools, which one would you choose?  The Spa category is all about "wellness" and "well being". It's more about feeling good. I seems to me that a Kneipp pool is more about "Health" and could even be a rather unpleasant experience (Cold water, awkward body position, etc.)

Edited September 21, 2017 by RakeInTheCache

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

RITC - I think of these pools as a health AND wellness thing -- 2 purposes. The kniepp pools seem to be good for some kinds of physical therapy, but also from what I have read they are also recommended for relaxation and emotional well being. I think that's why they are in public areas - the wellness aspect, not the health (or recovery thereof) aspect. 

My 2c as a non officer 

[+T0SHEA]

On 9/8/2017 at 1:48 AM, GeoMaulis said:

Kneip associations

Are these pools going to be limited to the Kneipp Associations?

[+fi67]

These Kneipp pools are quite special and I would like to be able to them as waymarks when I happen to find the next one. And I really appreciate your efforts to find a home for them in an existing category, but I think including them in the Spas category would be a really bad idea. This would be like allowing public fireplaces in parks in the Steakhouse category.

A Spa is usually a business with a broad range of wellness related offers, service staff, rest areas, restaurants and so on. One of these offers might be a Kneipp pool, although none of the various spas I have visited so far had one. These pools do not constitute a spa, they are not even necessary. There is only a very loose connection between them. If there was a common category for Spas, public pools, swimming holes and beaches, then Kneipp pools would fit there as well, but not the way it is.

BTW: We have a lot of public showers at the river bank in the city, river swimming is extremely popular here. Showers can also be found in Spas, but nobody would suggest to post them as Spas.

[+Tante.Hossi]

I personally do not need a new category for the Kneipp Pools if there would be an existing one where they would fit. But I can not find any.
The Spas category is not the right place for them. So I think we'll need a new one.

The accepted Kneipp Pools should not be limited to ones managed or created by Kneipp Associations. And it is no problem if they are a part of any spa or wellness location.

If there is a sign about the Kneipp Pool a picture of it must be added to the waymark. But if there is none, it will not be a problem. If you find a Kneipp Pool, you know it is one even if there is a sign or not.

The global criteria should not be a denial reason. The Kneipp Pools are well known all accross Europe. They are not limited to a specific region of the earth by definition. So they could be found everywhere.

[vulture1957]

3 hours ago, Tante.Hossi said:

If there is a sign about the Kneipp Pool a picture of it must be added to the waymark. But if there is none, it will not be a problem. If you find a Kneipp Pool, you know it is one even if there is a sign or not.

Agreed. Do we require signage for railroad bridges, Googie architecture, friese art, stained glass windows, etc?

[+RakeInTheCache]

For the record, I personally do not have a problem with Kneipp Pools being their own category.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

I think an issue in N America (and other places outside of Europe)  if Kneipp pools are proposed as their own category will be extreme underprevalence - accepting them in the spa category in not like accepting public fire pits in steakhouses because kniepp pools are already IN spas. 

[+elyob]

There will be extreme underprevalence unless waymarkers are willing to pay $70 and to make appointmemts.

http://www.kingfisherspa.com/spa-hydropath/pacific-mist-hydropath/

 

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

8 hours ago, elyob said:

There will be extreme underprevalence unless waymarkers are willing to pay $70 and to make appointmemts.

http://www.kingfisherspa.com/spa-hydropath/pacific-mist-hydropath/

 

My *hope* there would be that since photography is usually forbidden in spas, that a photo of the exterior of the spa and a sign  (which is always ok if taken from a place the photographer is allowed to be) linked to a website confirming the kniepp pool inside would be enough. 

I don't think there are ANY of these outdoor kniepp pools built by cities in parks in the US.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Benchmark Blasterz

[+fi67]

1 hour ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

My *hope* there would be that si de photography is usually forbidden in spas, that a photo of the exterior of the spa and a sign  (which is always ok if taken from a place the photographer is allowed to be) linked to a website confirming the kniepp pool inside would be enough.

[...]

Why not? I could live with this deal.

[+Tuena]

On 9/8/2017 at 1:55 AM, vulture1957 said:

we have categories for Australian Post Offices, German benchmarks, and others that are not international (all the state historical markers!) I can't see denying because of that, unless the rules for new categories has changed to now require international availability.

Post Offices, benchmarks & historical markers are international. 

[vulture1957]

2 hours ago, Tuena said:

Post Offices, benchmarks & historical markers are international. 

try finding an Oklahoma Historical marker in Japan, Germany, Australia, Denmark, etc. Bet you can't.

[+Tuena]

4 hours ago, vulture1957 said:

try finding an Oklahoma Historical marker in Japan, Germany, Australia, Denmark, etc. Bet you can't.

They're global. 

[+Tuena]

I haven't heard of Kneipp Walk Pools but found record of one on the Gold Coast being used as a play thing by children. If I was walking around like that I wouldn't want my picture taken. Found a local lifestyle site that mentioned these pools & thought I could achieve the same as they suggested (in your bath) by utilizing a bucket in the backyard. Wouldn't use as much water & once finished could water some pot plants. I'd have to hang onto the Hills Hoist though.    

[+Tante.Hossi]

 

On 24.9.2017 at 3:06 PM, Benchmark Blasterz said:

My *hope* there would be that since photography is usually forbidden in spas, that a photo of the exterior of the spa and a sign  (which is always ok if taken from a place the photographer is allowed to be) linked to a website confirming the kniepp pool inside would be enough. 

I don't think there are ANY of these outdoor kniepp pools built by cities in parks in the US.

On 24.9.2017 at 4:46 PM, fi67 said:

Why not? I could live with this deal.

I could live with this deal, as well, if this could be the solution for the global criteria.

 

 

 

 

[+Tante.Hossi]

The group for this new category idea has done some hard work. Now the category description is finished and has been sent to Peer Review a few seconds ago.

Please vote!

We know that this Kneipp Pools are not comon in very part of the world. But this category will be global anyway. So please do not vote against it only because you have never seen or heard about a Kneipp Pool before! Thanks a lot! We made a compromise within our two picture requirement: To protect you from paying any fee to post your Kneipp Pool it is allowed to post a picture from the entrance to the Kneipp Pool location, if it can be proofed (by a sign, website or any other thing), that there exists a Kneipp Pool inside.

[+Punga and Paua]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:21 PM, Tuena said:

I haven't heard of Kneipp Walk Pools but found record of one on the Gold Coast being used as a play thing by children. If I was walking around like that I wouldn't want my picture taken. Found a local lifestyle site that mentioned these pools & thought I could achieve the same as they suggested (in your bath) by utilizing a bucket in the backyard. Wouldn't use as much water & once finished could water some pot plants. I'd have to hang onto the Hills Hoist though.    

I also read an internet article about the Kneipp Movement that implied you could make your own 'pool' if you didn't have a so-called "Kneipp Pool" and I cannot find any reference of these things anywhere in NZ, only a place that sells beauty stuff like bathsalts and shower stuff etc under the name Kneipp at a ridiculous price! (Many years ago I did see a very shallow smelly mineral water pool for foot bathing that looked so germ ridden that it needed a visit from a health inspector on the end of a barge pole, but I digress.).

So, if I plonk an old bathtub on my front lawn, fill it to just below knee level with cold water and then start stepping around in it, lifting one leg at a time out of the water and pointing my toes like a pink flamingo bird then I've got myself a Kneipp Pool?  If I put a sign up, can I waymark it?  It'll be the only one in NZ.

[+Tuena]

2 hours ago, Punga and Paua said:

I also read an internet article about the Kneipp Movement that implied you could make your own 'pool' if you didn't have a so-called "Kneipp Pool" and I cannot find any reference of these things anywhere in NZ, only a place that sells beauty stuff like bathsalts and shower stuff etc under the name Kneipp at a ridiculous price! (Many years ago I did see a very shallow smelly mineral water pool for foot bathing that looked so germ ridden that it needed a visit from a health inspector on the end of a barge pole, but I digress.).

So, if I plonk an old bathtub on my front lawn, fill it to just below knee level with cold water and then start stepping around in it, lifting one leg at a time out of the water and pointing my toes like a pink flamingo bird then I've got myself a Kneipp Pool?  If I put a sign up, can I waymark it?  It'll be the only one in NZ.

I've already got a cast iron bathtub in the front yard, converted into a planter, but am willing to clean it out & repurpose it. If you want to use it just give me a bit of notice so I can move the fish. 

[+Punga and Paua]

Oooo, how lucky you are! Don't move the fish, leave them in there and you could create a Fish Spa and Fish Pedicure. Now that's a whole new category idea! https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/hygiene/body/fish_pedicures.html

We're lucky too, we have the world's cleanest purest Kneipp Pool flowing past the end of our street, its called the Tongariro River and its cold, straight off the mountains. We can do the high step in it, lifting our feet to avoid the trout,  might even be able to train them to do the foot nibbling thing too!

Perhaps there should just be a category for Health and Well-being things which could cover several similar activities including the Kneipp Pools and Fish Spa/Pedicures?

[+fi67]

8 hours ago, Punga and Paua said:

I also read an internet article about the Kneipp Movement that implied you could make your own 'pool' if you didn't have a so-called "Kneipp Pool" and I cannot find any reference of these things anywhere in NZ, only a place that sells beauty stuff like bathsalts and shower stuff etc under the name Kneipp at a ridiculous price! (Many years ago I did see a very shallow smelly mineral water pool for foot bathing that looked so germ ridden that it needed a visit from a health inspector on the end of a barge pole, but I digress.).

So, if I plonk an old bathtub on my front lawn, fill it to just below knee level with cold water and then start stepping around in it, lifting one leg at a time out of the water and pointing my toes like a pink flamingo bird then I've got myself a Kneipp Pool?  If I put a sign up, can I waymark it?  It'll be the only one in NZ.

The Kneipp company is not related to the pools.

It's a great idea to build your own Kneipp pool, and you could cross-post it to First of its Kind. But a bathtub will not do. The pool should be large enough to walk some steps (let's say about ten as the minimum) in a straight line and contain some stable handrails. A small stair to step in and out and steady inflow of fresh water can also be expected.

[+Punga and Paua]

Check out the DIY version here:  https://www.kneipp.com/us_en/natures-expert/water-cure/water-treading/

It seems a bathtub is good enough, or even a creek.

And it comes with a Warning with several reasons why you should NOT use this therapy.  And its straight from the horses mouth (Kneipp.com)!!

Edited November 16, 2017 by Punga and Paua

[+Tante.Hossi]

This category idea has failed in Peer Review.

Thanks for your votes. And thanks to the players who have supported this idea.

[+*Team Krombaer*]

Hoffentlich ist dies nicht das Ende. Wwerde heute mal ein Kneippbecken aufsuchen und daraus mal einen Waymark in die Kategorie 'Public swimming pools' und sofort dann in 'Spas und Saunas' einsetzen und werde mal gucken was dann passiert...

Übrigens Dank an alle Beteiligten, welche mit Ja  gestimmt haben...

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

What was the result of the vote? I was unable to watch very closely. Did the category pass?

[+*Team Krombaer*]

Sorry, B.B. the new Idea didn`t  passed... But German Waymarkers (all of them) said : Y E A  and they are right! ....

[+Manville Possum]

11 minutes ago, *Team Krombaer* said:

But German Waymarkers (all of them) said : Y E A  and they are right! ....

 

I'm guessing that these pools are regional to Germany?

[+fi67]

They exist in other countries as well, but nowhere else they are so deeply grounded in the local culture. I just learned that they were added to the intangible cultural heritage list of the German UNESCO committee a year ago.

We have them here in Switzerland, too. I know two of them within ten miles, but they are not so important here; I have never seen anyone actually using them.

Nevertheless I understand the frustration of the German waymarkers. A small, but very distinct part of their everyday culture was bashed in Peer Review by many voters who had no real idea about what exactly they were voting with quite inept comments.

Edited November 18, 2017 by fi67
Typo.

[+Manville Possum]

1 hour ago, fi67 said:

They exist in other countries as well, but nowhere else they are so deeply grounded in the local culture. I just learned that they were added to the intangible cultural heritage list of the German UNESCO committee a year ago.

We have them here in Switzerland, too. I know two of them within ten miles, but they are not so important here; I have never seen anyone actually using them.

Nevertheless I understand the frustration of the German waymarkers. A small, but very distinct part of their everyday culture was bashed in Peer Review by many voters who had no real idea about what exactly they were voting with quite inept comments.

 

From what I have read they seem to be a sort of spa and a cultural thing. Waymarking is much more popular in Europe, so I'm surprised that it did not pass peer review.

Why are they not accepted in the existing spa category?

[+fi67]

On 18.11.2017 at 10:42 PM, Manville Possum said:

Why are they not accepted in the existing spa category?

Nobody has ever asked, because nobody really wants them to be there.

The ones who now them would never think they are something like spas. They would be very surprised if they see by chance that they could go to the Spa category, but most probably they would never find out.

And the ones who like spas, real spas, would neither expect or want to find some small unmanaged shallow pools with cold water in the listings.

[+Manville Possum]

20 minutes ago, fi67 said:

And the ones who like spas, real spas, would neither expect or want to find some small unmanaged shallow pools with cold water in the listings.

 

Would anyone actually use this site to find a spa to visit in the first place? The people that I know who visit spas visit them for health reasons very much like these pools.

I'm going to move forward and just assume that I don't understand because this is a cultural thing, but I did find them of interest.

[+RakeInTheCache]

We have received a posting for a Kneipp pool in the Mineral baths et al. category.  I would be willing to extend this category to include Kneipp pools if the community agrees. However, I do not want to approve the submission until this is made official.

[+T0SHEA]

BK-Hunters agree with including Kneipp pools.