Montana 680 not showing (some) geocaches correctly

[+Din Jävel]

Hi,

I have a Montana 680 which lately has begun acting strangely. It shows most geocaches correctly, but some are not displayed. The device also doesn't display the closest cache first. So I made a new filter and after running it most caches, saved on device, shows up and in correct order. Then again a few caches won't show up til I search for their name and then some never shows up. Even though I know that they are in the PQ I have installed on my device.

Steps I've tried are:

1. Factory reset of device.

2. Delete PQ:s on device and download them new from gc.com.

3. Delete PQ:s at geocaching.com and creating new ones.

4. Updating device to latest drivers.

5. Erased .ggz and .gpx files on device and let the device create them from fresh.

I would like to reinstall the firmware, but I don't find a way to do it. So I can make sure it isn't any corrupted driver that mess with my gps.

I don't know what to do and would appreciate some advice? Has anybody encountered this kind of malfunction before? Is there any solution or workaround? I've searched and come up with nothing.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Din Jävel

[+Atlas Cached]

Select/Enable the "SHOW ALL GEOCACHES FILTER".

[+Mineral2]

There are two main solutions to try, given that removing the geocaches, booting, and reloading them didn't fix your problem.

1. Follow the advice of @Atlas Cached and select the "Show All" filter.

2. Connect your device to your computer, open up an Explorer/Finder window and navigate to /<GPS>/Garmin/SQL/ and delete the files in there. The GPS will recreate them when it is powered on again.

Once I had an issue where caches weren't loading/being shown, and changing filters and removing/reloading files wasn't solving the problem. That's when I discovered that deleting the bad database files would create a brand new fresh database with no issues.

[+Din Jävel]

8 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

Select/Enable the "SHOW ALL GEOCACHES FILTER".

That is what my own filter does, that I run. I can't find where I would enable it though. My private filter does, how ever, not solve the issue.

7 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

There are two main solutions to try, given that removing the geocaches, booting, and reloading them didn't fix your problem.

1. Follow the advice of @Atlas Cached and select the "Show All" filter.

2. Connect your device to your computer, open up an Explorer/Finder window and navigate to /<GPS>/Garmin/SQL/ and delete the files in there. The GPS will recreate them when it is powered on again.

Once I had an issue where caches weren't loading/being shown, and changing filters and removing/reloading files wasn't solving the problem. That's when I discovered that deleting the bad database files would create a brand new fresh database with no issues.

Tried solution 2 and it made no difference.

[+Din Jävel]

I might have solved the issue. While looking, on youtube, for ways to install the firmware afresh, I came over "hard reset" vidoes. After doing a hard reset, my gps device now, at least, shows the closest geocache first. Without running any additional filters. I will post a new post if this indeed has solved my issue.

Hard reset seems to be more thorough than factory reset, which you can reach from the menues. A hard reset is done by pressing the top left corner and then power on your device. Don't let go of the pressure before you have an option to reset all user data or cancel.

Thanks for your help Atlas Cached and Mineral2!

Edited September 2, 2017 by Din Jävel

[+Atlas Cached]

Make sure you have a look here for more information on your Montana GPSr!

[+Din Jävel]

It did not solve the issue. I got one restart where the unit behaved as it should and then at second restart it was back at showing the cashes in a weird way again.

[+Din Jävel]

23 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

Make sure you have a look here for more information on your Montana GPSr!

Yes, Atlas Cached, I start to think that a clean install of the firmware is the next way to go. Doesn't feel good though.

[+Atlas Cached]

2 hours ago, Din Jävel said:

Yes, Atlas Cached, I start to think that a clean install of the firmware is the next way to go. Doesn't feel good though.

Do not use YOUR geocache filter, use the Garmin Filter for Show All Caches.

[+Din Jävel]

7 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Do not use YOUR geocache filter, use the Garmin Filter for Show All Caches.

Should I not use any filter while making a PQ?

The filter I'm talking about is a Garmin filter I've set up.

[+HHL]

1 hour ago, Din Jävel said:

[...]

The filter I'm talking about is a Garmin filter I've set up.

No it isn't. It's a filter created by you on the Garmin unit. You should use the Garmin's built-in software function "Show all", which actually reads as "No filter set at all".
I forgot that even the newer Montanas behave like the old Oregon 450/550 series. There is no "Show all" built-in filter on those units.
Still valid: DON'T use any kind of filter. Just search for "Find a Geocache". Leave the "Quick Filter" alone.

Hans

Edited September 3, 2017 by HHL

[+Din Jävel]

19 minutes ago, HHL said:

No it isn't. It's a filter created by you on the Garmin unit. You should use the Garmin's built-in software function "Show all", which actually reads as "No filter set at all".

Hans

Ok, I do not find any Show all function in my device. Where would that be?

The garmin pre-determined "Quick Filter", which it runs on start up, comes back with a faulty list, not showing all. My filter 1, which I created after the device began not displaying caches correctly, is currently the only way I have of getting an almost correct list.

After reboot, when I click on geocache I get the options of "Find a Geocache", "Show Found", "Quick filter" and then my own "Filter 1". Of which Filter 1 gives, by far, the best result.

Under setup "Filter 1" is showing all types, all sizes (including not chosen), difficulty 1.0-5.0, terrain 1.0-5.0 and status Unattemted and did not find.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Din Jävel

[+Mineral2]

Quick Filter? Are you sure you don't have a Montana 650 rather than a 680?

[+Din Jävel]

1 minute ago, Mineral2 said:

Quick Filter? Are you sure you don't have a Montana 650 rather than a 680?

Says 680 on the side of my display.

[+Din Jävel]

Version information: Montana 680 V11, PCB version 11, firmware version 2.90.

[+Mineral2]

Ok. I made some assumptions that may not hold true, chiefly being that the Montana 610/680 had an interface more similar to the Oregon 600/650 than the Oregon 450/500 and Montana 600/650. 
 

Is it possible that the geocaches you are looking for have already been marked as found on the GPS? Have you tried deleting the geocache_visits.txt and geocache_finds.xml files from the main Garmin directory? (before you do this, make sure you've logged all of your finds on the website).

[+Din Jävel]

6 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Ok. I made some assumptions that may not hold true, chiefly being that the Montana 610/680 had an interface more similar to the Oregon 600/650 than the Oregon 450/500 and Montana 600/650. 
 

Is it possible that the geocaches you are looking for have already been marked as found on the GPS? Have you tried deleting the geocache_visits.txt and geocache_finds.xml files from the main Garmin directory? (before you do this, make sure you've logged all of your finds on the website).

Ok, then I understand. =)

Deleted both visits, which I do after each session logging geocaches on GC.com and geocache_finds.xml (which was called something similar on my device). The device is still showing wrong geocaches.

[+Atlas Cached]

OK, my apologies, I also thought the newer Montana units had adopted a geocaching interface similar to the newer Oregon series, but they have not.

Can you share some GC codes for geocaches not showing up properly, with detailed information on what exactly is wrong with each on your Montana?

Then I can try to duplicate....

 

 

[+Din Jävel]

2 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

OK, my apologies, I also thought the newer Montana units had adopted a geocaching interface similar to the newer Oregon series, but they have not.

Can you share some GC codes for geocaches not showing up properly, with detailed information on what exactly is wrong with each on your Montana?

Then I can try to duplicate....

 

 

Ok, no problem, I'm just grateful for all help I can get.

GC787G1, GC5G61V, GC60YXT, GC60YY2, GC787J6, GC4CA7E, GC2C937 These caches are examples of caches that doesn't show up when I start up, but they appear when I run my own filter on the device.

GC1ZN4R This cache didn't show up, even when I specifically searched for it with name.

GC792DC, GC792DP, GC792E3, GC792ED and GC792FD are a small trail that didn't show up in the device until I ran my filter. After the filter they showed up in the small information window, but didn't show on the map. They only appeared on map after I specifically searched for each one by name and only as long as I searched for the one selected.

[+HHL]

The first caches are either sized "micro" or "other" or have a terrain greater than 2.5.
The series caches only have the char "#" in common.

Please: DO NOT use a filter. JUST do a plain search for "Geocaches" or "Find a Geocache".
Though the Montana 680 behaves like the old Montanas whit the menu structure, it might be that there is a range limit of appr. 100 miles because this unit is GGZ aware.
Try this: Drag the map to Halland, SE than zoom in. Do the caches show on map?

Hans
 

[+Din Jävel]

1 hour ago, HHL said:

The first caches are either sized "micro" or "other" or have a terrain greater than 2.5.
The series caches only have the char "#" in common.

Please: DO NOT use a filter. JUST do a plain search for "Geocaches" or "Find a Geocache".
Though the Montana 680 behaves like the old Montanas whit the menu structure, it might be that there is a range limit of appr. 100 miles because this unit is GGZ aware.
Try this: Drag the map to Halland, SE than zoom in. Do the caches show on map?

Hans
 

Yeah, but those variables shows happily on other caches. I have really looked and tried to find some common nominator, but can't. It happens to both old and new. One 1,5/1,5 micro and then the next cache shows.

NOT using a filter gives me the, by far, worst feedback of caches. Then the game is really broken. That is how I first realized that something is wrong. My filter is the ONLY way that the unit is usable. It does not matter if I have done a hard reset and use the inbuilt filters or if my filter is there. Using the Garmin filters shows least caches.

The map always starts at my position. I don't have to drag and zoom. Trying it though does no difference.

[+Mineral2]

Here's another thought. How many geocaches do you have loaded on your device? According to Garmin, it seems that the Montana 610/680 still has a 12,000 geocache limit

[+Din Jävel]

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Here's another thought. How many geocaches do you have loaded on your device? According to Garmin, it seems that the Montana 610/680 still has a 12,000 geocache limit

Less than 4000.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Din Jävel
Forgot to answer.

[+HHL]

8 hours ago, Din Jävel said:

Less than 4000.

[...]

Hans

Edited September 5, 2017 by HHL
misreading the quoted context.

[+Din Jävel]

8 hours ago, HHL said:

[...]

Hans

[...]

As far as I know there is no way to see exactly how many geocaches there is on the device. Hence "less than 4000" as I know that I have installed exactly two PQ's with 1000 caches each and one route with 1000 caches on each side of the road. As the PQ's overlap there is less than 4000 geocaches on my device.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Din Jävel
Misunderstanding from my part.

[+Atlas Cached]

19 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Here's another thought. How many geocaches do you have loaded on your device? According to Garmin, it seems that the Montana 610/680 still has a 12,000 geocache limit

I don't think so.... My Montana 680 came with the preload of 250K caches (which I have already removed).... That is more than 12K.

8^)

[+Atlas Cached]

3 minutes ago, Din Jävel said:

Hans I appreciate help, but I don't know what you are trying at. If you have something to contribute, please by all means do that. Otherwise I would rather see that you don't interfere. I find your last two answers rude and ignorant.

 

As far as I know there is no way to see exactly how many geocaches there is on the device. Hence "less than 4000" as I know that I have installed exactly two PQ's with 1000 caches each and one route with 1000 caches on each side of the road. As the PQ's overlap there is less than 4000 geocaches on my device.

Offending some of the smartest and most helpful members here will not do you any good in the long term...

[+Din Jävel]

10 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Offending some of the smartest and most helpful members here will not do you any good in the long term...

[...]

Edited September 5, 2017 by Din Jävel
Misunderstanding on mybehalf.

[+HHL]

7 minutes ago, Din Jävel said:

Hans I appreciate help, but I don't know what you are trying at. If you have something to contribute, please by all means do that. Otherwise I would rather see that you don't interfere. I find your last two answers rude and ignorant.

As far as I know there is no way to see exactly how many geocaches there is on the device. Hence "less than 4000" as I know that I have installed exactly two PQ's with 1000 caches each and one route with 1000 caches on each side of the road. As the PQ's overlap there is less than 4000 geocaches on my device.

I deleted my post because I misread what I quoted. Actually I confused your 4000 exported caches with the Montana's 4000 waypoint limit.

Hans

[+Atlas Cached]

3 minutes ago, Din Jävel said:

I am not trying to offend anyone, but I don't like to feel offended myself. I write that I appreciate help, but I don't see how enforcing a solution that I have explained doesn't help and then answering another of my notes with a quote and [...] contributes to anything else than belittling me.

Read a little more and you will see the [....] is because HHL edited his post AFTER he realized he misread something, and instead of leaving irrelevant and unhelpful information there, he edited it....

[+Din Jävel]

9 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

I don't think so.... My Montana 680 came with the preload of 250K caches (which I have already removed).... That is more than 12K.

8^)

So have I. But I don't remember if those 250k caches came in .gpx or .ggz format.

[+Atlas Cached]

1 minute ago, Din Jävel said:

So have I. But I don't remember if those 250k caches came in .gpx or .ggz format.

They were GGZ

[+Din Jävel]

2 minutes ago, HHL said:

I deleted my post because I misread what I quoted. Actually I confused your 4000 exported caches with the Montana's 4000 waypoint limit.

Hans

Aha, then I apologize sincerely. I am sorry for my harsh tone Hans.

[+Din Jävel]

4 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

They were GGZ

The limits are 12.000 geogaches in .gpx and 4.000.000 in .ggz if I'm not mistaken. I haven't done any .ggz conversions yet.

[+Mineral2]

3 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

I don't think so.... My Montana 680 came with the preload of 250K caches (which I have already removed).... That is more than 12K.

8^)

That makes sense. I thought the geocache limit was lifted with the 610/680. Unfortunately, Garmin has dropped the ball on their website. File limits for the montana series are concatenated onto a single page, which seems to have the limit specs on the older 600/650 models. Geocaching features and ggz support is no longer advertised as a feature of the 610/680 models on their individual pages. And given that some of the interface changes introduced to the Oregon 600 line were not carried over to the Montana update, I'm now doubting everything I thought I knew about the Montana line.

[+Atlas Cached]

3 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

That makes sense. I thought the geocache limit was lifted with the 610/680. Unfortunately, Garmin has dropped the ball on their website. File limits for the montana series are concatenated onto a single page, which seems to have the limit specs on the older 600/650 models. Geocaching features and ggz support is no longer advertised as a feature of the 610/680 models on their individual pages. And given that some of the interface changes introduced to the Oregon 600 line were not carried over to the Montana update, I'm now doubting everything I thought I knew about the Montana line.

I'll tell ya, dusting off my 680 to check some details (after providing some incorrect information earlier in this thread) this weekend, well, after about 2 hours I was ready to chuck that heap out the window! I am spoiled by the Oregon 6x0 and 7x0 capabilities, and I just could never go back to a Montana for Geocaching. Never.

[+Din Jävel]

On 9/5/2017 at 8:31 PM, Atlas Cached said:

I'll tell ya, dusting off my 680 to check some details (after providing some incorrect information earlier in this thread) this weekend, well, after about 2 hours I was ready to chuck that heap out the window! I am spoiled by the Oregon 6x0 and 7x0 capabilities, and I just could never go back to a Montana for Geocaching. Never.

I have re-installed the firmware and, sadly, it seems it made no difference. I will have to wait until I am at home to verify it though. I am a sailor by trade and right now I'm pretty far from the deep woods where I live and know all the caches.

[+Din Jävel]

On 9/8/2017 at 4:52 PM, Din Jävel said:

I have re-installed the firmware and, sadly, it seems it made no difference. I will have to wait until I am at home to verify it though. I am a sailor by trade and right now I'm pretty far from the deep woods where I live and know all the caches.

No luck. A new installation of the firmware did absolutely nothing.

I have however been in contact with Garmin and they suggest switching the device for a new one. I guess that that is my only option. Thanks for all help, tips and support!

Edited September 19, 2017 by Din Jävel
Forgot a couple of words.

[+hzoi]

At some point this weekend, either I inadvertently switched  my Montana 610 over to opencaching mode, or it did it on its own.  I was preplexed by having limited cache types plus an "awesomeness" filter.  Changing back to traditional mode in the setup menu helped, but in the meantime I'd accidentally created a filter, which then kept me from seeing earthcaches, Wherigo caches, etc.  I had to go back into setup to delete the filter in order to see them all.

Sometimes particular caches will not load for me on the Montana.  The little loading icon will show on the screen when I ask to see, say, the cache description or the logs, and it won't go away.  When I asked, other cachers indicated it might be a corrupted database.  They recommended that I force the Montana to refresh its database whenever I load a new GPX in, by deleting the old GPX file first, then restarting (so the Montana finds no geocaches loaded), then adding the geocaches.gpx file in and starting again.  It is a 99% solution to a problem that had been infrequent but annoying.

[+EveningKiss]

I have/Had the same issue with my 680T. I would load GPX or GZZ file. they would work for a short time then my GPS would fail to find. I just replaced it for the 610 and I have THE SAME ISSUE. I didn't have this issue with the 650 (best buy no longer carries it) and not sure what's going on. Not sure if there is a place to update the softwhere. Every time I try a live chat with Garmin no one responds. 

[+Styk]

Hmmm, not what i wanted to hear as I sold my 600 and was planning on buying a 680 soon.  If live chat isn't working, call their support line.  Since I have gone to touch screen models, I have had at least one warranty replacement.  Was on the 2nd Montana replacement which I've had for 2 years now when i sold it.  Had an Oregon, nice unit but  bit small for my aging eyes.