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What do you want in a log


captnemo

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38 minutes ago, arisoft said:

I like to get a feeling that the player has found the cache. 

+1. Exactly.

I see a lot of "Found it" logs where evidence may suggest that the cache container wasn't actually found or the log wasn't signed. A simple log such as "retrieved the cache, signed the log, and replaced the cache as found" says tons. Of course, describing the adventure (if any), and commenting on cache condition is always nice.

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Similar to arisoft,   I'd like to at least know that they really found it. 

 -  "Yay!" , "Zap!", or swear word logs don't do that.  So on the next maintenance, I might look at that log, and maybe  "Zap!" them back:)

We act on logs, so if there's a mention that there's any issue, we're on it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, captnemo said:

As a cache owner what do you like to see in a log on your cache.

Myself, I like to see something like "The cache is in (great, good, poor, bad)  shape".  Knowing this really helps in proper maintenance.

Curious if this has helped you personally, or is "knowing this really helps in proper maintenance" a general statement?

We've seen other's hides with enough moldy carp  after numerous Found It logs (with no mention of condition), cut/paste "thanks for placing and maintaining" logs - to find a biology experiment we're grossed-out by the same day,  and "log wet" logs on an otherwise dry cache with a Rite in Rain notebook, to realize that logs don't always help out.  :)

We've always acted on logs w/o waiting for a NM, and so far (for us) it's kinda 50/50...

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I don't expect anything from a log.  I *appreciate* when people take a little time to describe the experience they had (good or bad) with the journey to the cache or the cache itself, because I enjoy reading about the experiences of others almost as much as I enjoy writing about my own experiences.

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On 8/30/2017 at 0:06 PM, cerberus1 said:

Curious if this has helped you personally, or is "knowing this really helps in proper maintenance" a general statement?

We've seen other's hides with enough moldy carp  after numerous Found It logs (with no mention of condition), cut/paste "thanks for placing and maintaining" logs - to find a biology experiment we're grossed-out by the same day,  and "log wet" logs on an otherwise dry cache with a Rite in Rain notebook, to realize that logs don't always help out.  :)

We've always acted on logs w/o waiting for a NM, and so far (for us) it's kinda 50/50...

I also like to see something about the adventure, unfortunately what I see is a cut and paste that has nothing to do with my cache.  And yes it has helped me know if a cache needs or doesn't need my attention. 

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Little off topic, but I have a few gadget caches, where you have to figure out how to get/find the log. Time and time again, on one of them, I get a found log, found the cache but there was no log in it, so I added my own....I think that a lot of geocachers do not actually read the description page! But it gives me a laugh, every time. As for what I like to read on a log....and am being totally honest here...if it is a cache that I spent dozens of hours on creating, a few more words then "tftc" please. Give me a little credit, please . Did you like it? Was it fun? Did it make you laugh?

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The thing I like to see most in logs is pictures. Any picture is very much appreciated. Fill my cache page gallery with pics! Maybe a picture of the scenery. Maybe a goofy selfie. Maybe a picture of your cachng crew. Maybe a picture of the vegetation around the cache. Best of all.... wildlife. I love seeing pictures of rattlesnakes people ran in to while hunting my caches.

I've found about 4400 caches and I've posted about 1200 pictures. I think that's a good ratio. I never miss an opportunity to post some kind of a picture in my logs.

Edited to mention that I just checked and I've posted 1387 pictures.

Edited by simpjkee
fact checking
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49 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

These days I'm happy to get logs that have actual words in them or even just letters of the alphabet. I've just received another log consisting of a single emoji, this being on a D2/T3 cache in a pretty spectacular sea cave so it's not your average P&G.

The downward spiral in log quality is one of the reasons I've stopped placing caches. It's just not worth the effort.

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I like seeing pics posted - for one that shows they're paying attention to the individual cache, not just posting finds on all the listings they did on a trip or some day (and it helps dissuade copy/paste logs in entirety)

And on that note, I don't mind seeing short recaps of an entire caching trip, but I do like to see something specific to the cache found. If it's on a powertrail, I don't expect that unless something stood out, but for individual caches, it's nice to get a feeling for like/didn't like, and especially comments about any issues if they exist.

None of that in a find log is essential of course, but I think unique content is great for the CO, and for folllowup finders who may either be perusing past logs or checking for help/tips while searching.

I'll tell ya, a big pet peeve of mine are small group caching trips where every person includes a 5 paragraph outline of their entire day which is identical on all their finds posted, with nothing specific at all to the caches (even if they generically "thank all the COs for contributing to the day"). As a finder browsing past logs and as a CO, that's just annoying... :wacko:

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3 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I'll tell ya, a big pet peeve of mine are small group caching trips where every person includes a 5 paragraph outline of their entire day which is identical on all their finds posted, with nothing specific at all to the caches (even if they generically "thank all the COs for contributing to the day"). As a finder browsing past logs and as a CO, that's just annoying... :wacko:

And incredibly rude.

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20 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

These days I'm happy to get logs that have actual words in them or even just letters of the alphabet. I've just received another log consisting of a single emoji, this being on a D2/T3 cache in a pretty spectacular sea cave so it's not your average P&G.

The downward spiral in log quality is one of the reasons I've stopped placing caches. It's just not worth the effort.

 

Yeah. I friend of mine has stopped hiding caches, and archiving all of his "lost" hides because of this. Is a shame, he always put such thought and effort into his geocache hides.

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I won't pretend that a nice flattering log is always nice to see but to be honest it's not super important to me. 

 Some people get bent out of shape when a cacher simply posts TFTC.  They somehow see that as a slap in the face considering all the work they've put into their cache and think they are entitled to more.  If their primary goal in hiding a cache is self aggrandizement I can understand why this would get their back up.    To me that simple TFTC means someone took time out of their life to go out and find one of my caches.   Hopefully they had a good time doing it.  I may never know but I don't need to.  

Any issues reported in the log are always greatly appreciated.  

 

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I think one aspect to just the "TFTC" log isn't that it's merely a "slap in the face", but some could also consider it unhelpful. If you do place caches for others to have fun, well, did they enjoy it? Did they not? Was it in good shape? Does it need even a bit of TLC?  Minimalist logs aren't just "hurtful" to a CO, but they're also relatively unhelpful. Ultimately it's no biggy, but when comparing a "tftc" to "scratched myself on some thorns even though it's 2m from the trail, but tftc!" the latter could be helpful if, say, the CO didn't add the Thorns attribute, and to followup cachers who may know now to avoid that cluster :P

I think it's safe to say that a little more than "tftc" (related to the cache that is) is pretty much always beneficial in some way, and a CO hoping for more than just that isn't always merely self-motivated.

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51 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I think one aspect to just the "TFTC" log isn't that it's merely a "slap in the face", but some could also consider it unhelpful. If you do place caches for others to have fun, well, did they enjoy it? Did they not? Was it in good shape? Does it need even a bit of TLC?  Minimalist logs aren't just "hurtful" to a CO, but they're also relatively unhelpful. Ultimately it's no biggy, but when comparing a "tftc" to "scratched myself on some thorns even though it's 2m from the trail, but tftc!" the latter could be helpful if, say, the CO didn't add the Thorns attribute, and to followup cachers who may know now to avoid that cluster :P

I think it's safe to say that a little more than "tftc" (related to the cache that is) is pretty much always beneficial in some way, and a CO hoping for more than just that isn't always merely self-motivated.

Don't get me wrong,  I love to read good logs and more information is always welcome but I don't expect it and I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for not providing it.  To be honest I check on my caches periodically so any issues with the cache or changes in the general area are known.   I don't necessarily rely on other cachers for health updates but I do agree they're helpful.      

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45 minutes ago, justintim1999 said:

Don't get me wrong,  I love to read good logs and more information is always welcome but I don't expect it and I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for not providing it.  To be honest I check on my caches periodically so any issues with the cache or changes in the general area are known.   I don't necessarily rely on other cachers for health updates but I do agree they're helpful.

Of course. I made sure to state it shouldn't be expected, nor condemned if it's not there.  Merely that a CO hoping for more than "tftc" isn't necessarily strictly selfish, since the additional content can almost always add value for both other cachers and the CO. :)

 

5 hours ago, justintim1999 said:

To me that simple TFTC means someone took time out of their life to go out and find one of my caches.

Yeah that pretty much is all it means. It doesn't add any value or information beyond indicating that someone found the cache (presuming of course they actually did find and sign the logsheet, but that's a different concern :P)

So, to the OP, to say "I want to see more than TFTC" (hope/desire/wish/prefer - not demand), doesn't immediately mean a self-aggrendizing CO. There are actual good reasons to hope for more than just "tftc" in find logs. :)

Edited by thebruce0
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On 8/30/2017 at 1:47 PM, captnemo said:

As a cache owner what do you like to see in a log on your cache.

Myself, I like to see something like "The cache is in (great, good, poor, bad)  shape".  Knowing this really helps in proper maintenance.

I'm glad to see that there are some COs who actually read the logs (without prompting by a NM/NA).  Many I've found have strings of several (2-6) Notes describing problems that aren't addressed until someone (yeah, sometimes me--sometimes someone else) actually posts a NM/NA.

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20 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

I'm glad to see that there are some COs who actually read the logs (without prompting by a NM/NA).  Many I've found have strings of several (2-6) Notes describing problems that aren't addressed until someone (yeah, sometimes me--sometimes someone else) actually posts a NM/NA.

Yeah, and those NM/NA sometimes alert the lazy/inattentive/inactive CO into actually doing something. On the odd occasion they may just be away for an extended period and unable to properly attend the listing, but the for most part if gets to the point of a series of logs (notes and/or NM, the latter is worse), that either means the CO is shirking, or a reviewer will get in on it very very soon. If it's just notes for actual maintenance issues, someone really should post that NM and move the proper process along...

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40 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Of course. I made sure to state it shouldn't be expected, nor condemned if it's not there.  Merely that a CO hoping for more than "tftc" isn't necessarily strictly selfish, since the additional content can almost always add value for both other cachers and the CO. :)

 

Yeah that pretty much is all it means. It doesn't add any value or information beyond indicating that someone found the cache (presuming of course they actually did find and sign the logsheet, but that's a different concern :P)

So, to the OP, to say "I want to see more than TFTC" (hope/desire/wish/prefer - not demand), doesn't immediately mean a self-aggrendizing CO. There are actual good reasons to hope for more than just "tftc" in find logs. :)

Unfortunately I believe that the major issue with TFTC has less to do with the condition of the cache than it dose with cache owner entitlement.    

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Personally, I'd group recommendation against logging only "tftc" online along with recommendations about practices like... make sure baggies are fully sealed and containers fully closed when you're done with them; hide the container as close to exactly as you found it; respect nature and property, try to avoid trampling plants and making geotrails; remove litter from containers like gum and candies and scented items; etc... ie, general geocaching etiquette that I'd wager most people accept as helpful or good practice when possible. It's not wrong or "bad" to post TFTC. But I'd always encourage people to do just a little more, just like in their basic geocaching habits. Why not? It's nice :)  But I won't denigrate someone otherwise.

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On 9/6/2017 at 11:45 AM, thebruce0 said:

I'll tell ya, a big pet peeve of mine are small group caching trips where every person includes a 5 paragraph outline of their entire day which is identical on all their finds posted, with nothing specific at all to the caches (even if they generically "thank all the COs for contributing to the day"). As a finder browsing past logs and as a CO, that's just annoying... :wacko:

While as a CO, I'm sympathetic to this opinion ... as a finder, I'm less sympathetic.  Wait, let me explain.

On those occasions where I plan out a "big day" of caching in a new area, I load up my handheld GPSr with my latest pocket query, head out, enjoy my day making 15-20 finds, come home, download my finds from my GPSr to log my finds ... and then have problems making up wonderfully unique things to say about "Rails To Trails #43" that are different from what I logged at "Rails To Trails #42".   My GPSr doesn't make it convenient to record detailed notes on the find, and my memory isn't that outstanding, so ... a copy-and-paste log is about all I can manage at that point.   Maybe the name of the cache or the description or the hint will trigger a specific memory that I can add, but ... for a lot of those finds, I've got a lot of nothing.

Other than taking along a log book and composing an essay on the spot which I'll have to type in later, I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

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Oh I completely understand, I'm the same way... but here's how I deal with that context:

I try to keep my daily summary to one, maybe two paragraphs.  If it's a big trip, I may post the longer log to one cache, then link to it in the others for anyone who wishes to read it all, then post the cache-relevant log content for each, if it exists.

As a cacher (not a finder of said cache), it's also nicer to be able to know what's relevant to the cache I'm looking at, and seeing 3 or 4 sequential logs of 5-6+ paragraphs from a small group visit where none of them posted anything relevant, it's tedious and I usually end up just skipping those logs entirely as I'm scanning.

I mean, that's fine, and that choice on me... I'm just saying, it's annoying to see ;)  To me, I can deal with it. It's like two ends of the spectrum though - "TFTC" logs on one end, and essentially irrelevant extensive copy/paste logs summarizing a cacher's entire day, for each and every find that day, at the other end.  Given a 'do unto others' ethic, I do my best to find the middle ground, which (in my opinion), attempts to provide the best for each world (subsequent finders, my logging records, and the CO).

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33 minutes ago, Team Hugs said:

While as a CO, I'm sympathetic to this opinion ... as a finder, I'm less sympathetic.  Wait, let me explain.

On those occasions where I plan out a "big day" of caching in a new area, I load up my handheld GPSr with my latest pocket query, head out, enjoy my day making 15-20 finds, come home, download my finds from my GPSr to log my finds ... and then have problems making up wonderfully unique things to say about "Rails To Trails #43" that are different from what I logged at "Rails To Trails #42".   My GPSr doesn't make it convenient to record detailed notes on the find, and my memory isn't that outstanding, so ... a copy-and-paste log is about all I can manage at that point.   Maybe the name of the cache or the description or the hint will trigger a specific memory that I can add, but ... for a lot of those finds, I've got a lot of nothing.

Other than taking along a log book and composing an essay on the spot which I'll have to type in later, I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

I try my best to avoid any sort of power trail. The only time I've done even a couple dozen caches on these trails was when my friends wanted to get them (usually due to some in the group not being hikers). For trails such as this, I typically use my smartphone and type a short log onsite. Something like, "Nice view of the river from this one." or "Team Hugs made the find while the rest of us were looking on the wrong side of the trail." And if I don't want to type that much on my smartphone, I'll make it a short reminder in a field note draft so I can type more when I get home on a computer. My logs on power trails will be much shorter than other caches, but still not cut and paste.

As far as what I'd like to see in a log, I wouldn't mind seeing a similar effort, but I know that cachers are way too busy for that. Guess that I feel "entitled" too. :blink:

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23 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I try to keep my daily summary to one, maybe two paragraphs.  If it's a big trip, I may post the longer log to one cache, then link to it in the others for anyone who wishes to read it all, then post the cache-relevant log content for each, if it exists.

+1   We do similar...  

When there's a long line of the same container, hide, and all, the first cache gets our standard, often wordy log of weather, critters ... just stuff we notice along the way.  Those in between may get a c/p sentence or two of what we're doing ( a "...this nice, wide, well-kept trail for some exercise..." kinda thing) with a brief mention of anything ("scared up a few grouse along the way...") that's different than our first.  The last cache pretty-much thanks the CO for the fun day.

I don't compose an essay ... but we still use a notepad for jotting noteworthy stuff,  so it's a lot easier for us to separate who's who.   :)

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I cache with an etrex 30 which is about as awkward as it comes for data entry, but I do manage to enter an abbreviation into the field notes if there is something I need to remember.

LD  if the log is damp, but usable

LW if the log is wet and unusable

CC for a cracked or otherwise damaged container

GV for a great view. 

When I get to the computer to write the real logs the field notes jog my memory and I can always write something unique about the cache.

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If I'm planning on finding more than one or two I tend to take field notes as I go around.

Sometimes I write them in a notebook which I always have with me, sometimes I take photographs. Other times I use the hint as a memory jogger.

I also make a point of writing my logs as soon as I can while the trip is fresh in my mind.

The upshot is that with little effort I'm usually able to write something specific to every cache which I hope the CO enjoys. 

Of course the additional benefit is that I have thousands of memories recorded that I can look back on in the future. 

Much better all round than empty TFTC logs.

 

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4 hours ago, Team Hugs said:

While as a CO, I'm sympathetic to this opinion ... as a finder, I'm less sympathetic.  Wait, let me explain.

On those occasions where I plan out a "big day" of caching in a new area, I load up my handheld GPSr with my latest pocket query, head out, enjoy my day making 15-20 finds, come home, download my finds from my GPSr to log my finds ... and then have problems making up wonderfully unique things to say about "Rails To Trails #43" that are different from what I logged at "Rails To Trails #42".   My GPSr doesn't make it convenient to record detailed notes on the find, and my memory isn't that outstanding, so ... a copy-and-paste log is about all I can manage at that point.   Maybe the name of the cache or the description or the hint will trigger a specific memory that I can add, but ... for a lot of those finds, I've got a lot of nothing.

Other than taking along a log book and composing an essay on the spot which I'll have to type in later, I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

We cache pretty much the same way except that I print out a map showing the area and caches we will be targeting. It helps in working out the order of approach as its easy to see on a paper map than scrolling through the GPSr. Then, as we find or DNF each cache, we write short notes on the map alongside each cache and use this for reference, or memory jogger if you like, when we get home and do our logs on the desktop.

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29 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

I also make a point of writing my logs as soon as I can while the trip is fresh in my mind.

Great advice!

The longer you wait, or worse, the more you get, the more difficult it is to recall and say something significant about each, even if you made notes. My notes are often cryptic that I can't remember what I meant.

52 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

LD  if the log is damp, but usable

LW if the log is wet and unusable

CC for a cracked or otherwise damaged container

GV for a great view. 

I like it.

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Yep in the field I make very brief notes if something stands out. When logging online individually (yes, even long trails) that helps to remember the cache, and if it's a relatively independent cache and I didn't jot a note, I usually check its spot on the map again to jog my memory of the hide, if the listing hasn't already. Then something may come to mind I want to write that wasn't apparent when I noted the find in the field.

Basically, I try to add anything to help make the log just that little bit more interesting!

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On 9/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, Team Hugs said:

My GPSr doesn't make it convenient to record detailed notes on the find, and my memory isn't that outstanding, so ... a copy-and-paste log is about all I can manage at that point.   Maybe the name of the cache or the description or the hint will trigger a specific memory that I can add, but ... for a lot of those finds, I've got a lot of nothing.

Other than taking along a log book and composing an essay on the spot which I'll have to type in later, I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

Isn't there some medium?  I don't compose essays on the spot, but I usually have a piece of paper or small notebook (along with my pen) to jot down a few notes (my memory is suffering some too) when I get back to the car or between caches--enough to expound upon later when logging online.  ;)

[EDIT] Didn't see cerberus1's response when I wrote the above.  Looks like we may have one thing in common after all.  :D

 

Edited by RufusClupea
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18 hours ago, RufusClupea said:
On 9/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, Team Hugs said:

My GPSr doesn't make it convenient to record detailed notes on the find, and my memory isn't that outstanding, so ... a copy-and-paste log is about all I can manage at that point.   Maybe the name of the cache or the description or the hint will trigger a specific memory that I can add, but ... for a lot of those finds, I've got a lot of nothing.

Other than taking along a log book and composing an essay on the spot which I'll have to type in later, I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

Isn't there some medium?  I don't compose essays on the spot, but I usually have a piece of paper or small notebook (along with my pen) to jot down a few notes (my memory is suffering some too) when I get back to the car or between caches--enough to expound upon later when logging online.  ;)

Another approach is to simply not attempt to find more caches that one can remember at the end of the day.  I used to carry a note pad as well that I would use to jot down the name of the cache after each find and anything that I'd want to include in the log when I got home.  Now, I often will log  from the field (usually when I get back in my car) but still manage to write complete sentences.  

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What I want from a log (as a CO or seeker)

Was the cache definitely found?

Was the cache in good condition and at the posted coords?

Were there any issues not reflected by the cache page? The cache is more difficult than expected, the trail shifted further away, poison ivy in the area, etc.

What I appreciate on a log as a CO

Tell me something about your experience. I will read your log and I hope you will write something worth reading.

What I don't consider important as a CO

Thanks for the cache. Most people who thank COs in logs do so as auto text and that's kind of meaningless. 

That you looked for and logged my cache, wrote something meaningful in the log, and possibly gave a Favorite shows your thanks far more than a stock note. A personal note means far more than a stock note.

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I caught this log on a cache that I happen to have on my watchlist yesterday.

Quote

Always like to find a cache after a number of DNF's
<Product name removed> . Available on Itunes, Stitcher Radio, Google Play Music, Soundcloud, Youtube and on our website. Have you tuned in yet?

It seems that every log has the same last line in it. Essentially spam. The first line seems to vary somewhat but that's a little longer than normal. And it had had precisely one DNF since the last find.

Fortunately it wasn't one of my caches.

Edited by Blue Square Thing
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9 hours ago, Joshism said:

What I want from a log (as a CO or seeker)

Was the cache definitely found?

What I appreciate on a log as a CO

Tell me something about your experience.

I agree. 

Telling me something might help me decide whether you truly found it, or now I gotta strap on gear and climb to see (after my re-cracked rib's healed).

 - Unlike the "Found!" we got on a "5" terrain climb hide from a low-count new basic member today, or the low-count PM a few days ago who said, "If you're going to get to this one you better bring climbing gear" , and only has two "4s" prior.  Yeah, right...

Edited by cerberus1
spllelling
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