+PeoriaBill Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Here are my unsolicited suggestions for the new virtual caches to be released as “Virtual Rewards”. Should be able to complete at one site. No geocaching tours, chaining, linking or driving between sites to complete. Should be interesting, take less than 1 hour and not be a MENSA level endeavor. No puzzles No cost or admission. Open to the public and accessible. Weather neutral as much as possible. Physical effort no greater than level 3. Not require special equipment e.g. climbing gear, scuba, etc. Consider looking at archived virtuals for good candidates to reactivate. Need a succession plan in case the OP is unable to continue in geocaching. Archive and take off life support virtuals that are substantially altered from their original state due to construction, demolition or natural forces. Thanks for any consideration and look forward to new virtual caches. Quote Link to comment
+Touchstone Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Peoria Bill said: No cost or admission. I guess that rules out National Parks in my area, which generally run $20-$30 for a 3 day pass. Pity. 3 Quote Link to comment
+TriciaG Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Quote Archive and take off life support virtuals that are substantially altered from their original state due to construction, demolition or natural forces. You talking about current ones? Log NAs, or contact the local reviewer for the area by private message, if you don't want the drama of posting a public NA log. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) Here are my unsolicited suggestions for the new virtual caches to be released as “Virtual Rewards”. Should be able to complete at one or more related sites. Geocaching tours, chaining, linking or driving between sites are all fine when the locations are related to each other. Should be interesting. Can take more than 1 hour, and even be a MENSA level endeavor as long as it's rated accordingly. Puzzles are great. Complies with guidelines against commercial caches. Parking fees and admission fees for public spaces are fine. Weather appropriate to the location in all cases. Physical effort no greater than the terrain rating indicates. Not require special equipment e.g. climbing gear, scuba, etc. unless rated accordingly. Consider looking at archived virtuals for good candidates to reactivate. Especially the "local treasures" that were archived because the owner was no longer able to maintain them. Acknowledge that they'll be archived in case the CO is unable to continue in geocaching. Edited August 28, 2017 by niraD 8 Quote Link to comment
+WarNinjas Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I think the CO's that were selected are among the best and know what they are doing. The reason they might have been picked is because everyone loves there puzzles, or high terrain caches. It is there cache to do what they want with. I do agree that I prefer one I can figure out at the spot but it is up to them on how they want to do it. Quote Link to comment
Blue Square Thing Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I just think there should be a variety. Preferably some that do none of the OPs things and some that do all of them and everything in between. I imagine we'll see most of them skewed towards the OPs ideas. I'd also like to see as broad a geographical spread as possible fwiw. Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 And here I thought by the title that this was going to be a thread listing really cool suggestions for locations of Virtuals in case any recipient wasn't sure what to create. Alas, it was an attempt at suggestions for rules limiting what could be placed and how. Fortunately there are already many listing properties in place to help indicate what may be required in order to log them as found, on top of the standard guidelines for geocache listings. 1 Quote Link to comment
+fuzziebear3 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm sure we don't need more rules and limitations on them. If you don't want to do it, then don't. You don't have to catch them all. (I'm with niraD on this one). Rate them appropriately, and make them good, you only get one chance. Quote Link to comment
+irisisleuk Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I hope there will appear some virtuals in countries where there are no virtual caches to be found at the moment. 2 Quote Link to comment
RuideAlmeida Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, irisisleuk said: I hope there will appear some virtuals in countries where there are no virtual caches to be found at the moment. That's one of the ideas... Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, irisisleuk said: I hope there will appear some virtuals in countries where there are no virtual caches to be found at the moment. ^This! The Virtual cache type allows for "Vacation" caches, as long as the CO visited within 2 months of submitting the cache, so this could be an opportunity to place caches somewhere that lacks a lot of local cachers. Of course, there is still the potential of needing maintenance that requires a visit to the location, but hopefully that would rarely happen and/or the CO could work with a local cacher to help them check things out if an issue arises. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, irisisleuk said: I hope there will appear some virtuals in countries where there are no virtual caches to be found at the moment. I was very excited to read that Virtual Rewards were handed out in 63 countries. And, I'm excited to see where some of the early published Virtuals are popping up on the map -- places like Turkey, Croatia, Serbia, Uganda, China, Japan, Okinawa and Taiwan. When "old virtuals" were allowed (pre-2005), geocaching was far more US-centric so there were many countries that had few or none. I'm hoping the Virtual Rewards will even things out a bit, either through placements by local residents or by people who recently visited on vacation. For example, had my trip to Israel occurred this summer instead of 2015, I would have used my Reward at Masada - clearly a location where a physical cache would be impossible/inappropriate. But, I did not travel anywhere special in the past two months, so I'll be hiding mine in my hometown. At least I won't have maintenance worries if any of the verification information should change. Mine will require multiple stops to locations which share a related theme, and it will likely require more than an hour to complete (but visitors will be able to find other existing caches along the way). That may not make the OP happy, but the design I have in mind will meet many of the OP's other suggested criteria. It will be available at all times, it will be free, it will have easy terrain requiring no special skills or equipment, and it will be as interesting as I can possibly make the subject to be! Edited August 28, 2017 by Keystone 2 Quote Link to comment
+Aquacache Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Keystone said: But, I did not travel anywhere special in the past two months, so I'll be hiding mine in my hometown. Remember, you have a year to travel to someplace special. 1 Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 36 minutes ago, Aquacache said: Remember, you have a year to travel to someplace special. ^Yes! I hope that some of the reward recipients will wait a while before choosing their virtual locations. For example, if they have an upcoming trip to somewhere that doesn't have a lot of caches. Also, it would be great to see some 'new' Virtual caches come out over the year, rather than just a huge burst of publications in these first couple months. Quote Link to comment
+igator210 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 On 8/27/2017 at 6:19 PM, Peoria Bill said: Here are my unsolicited suggestions for the new virtual caches to be released as “Virtual Rewards”. So... up to 4000 new Virtual caches placed around the world and you want every single one of them to follow your suggestions? That's a bit selfish, and could lead to a lot of boring park and look Virtuals. Let the CO place the type of Virtual cache they want to. If it doesn't fall within your personal criteria, skip it. There are plenty of other people that would gladly go for it. 1 Quote Link to comment
+mvhayes1982 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I noticed that several of the new Virtual Rewards have been placed as PMO caches. While certainly within the CO's rights -- I'm not really sure what to think of that. Were there existing grandfathered Virts that were PMO? 2 Quote Link to comment
BlueRajah Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, noncentric said: I hope that some of the reward recipients will wait a while before choosing their virtual locations. For example, if they have an upcoming trip to somewhere that doesn't have a lot of caches. Also, it would be great to see some 'new' Virtual caches come out over the year, rather than just a huge burst of publications in these first couple months. I am not seeing a rush at all. We have two in our state that are new. One took an old favorite that the cache owner archived because he was not caching anymore and recreated it. The other was a volunteer that had a bit of a heads up. I know five other locals that have announced their luck, they are all giving it some thought and some are asking for input. The nice thing is the many different options that people are considering. I am sure we will see a others that may be a reincarnation of an older virtual cache. However, many seemed to be giving it serious thought to come up with something creative, or at an interesting location 2 Quote Link to comment
Blue Square Thing Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 5 hours ago, mvhayes1982 said: I noticed that several of the new Virtual Rewards have been placed as PMO caches. While certainly within the CO's rights -- I'm not really sure what to think of that. Were there existing grandfathered Virts that were PMO? Some, yes. Of the 4,568 virtual that seem to be extant and were placed previously, 49 are PM only. Of the 172 new ones that Project GC is reporting have been placed as of now, 10 are PM only. So proportionally rather a lot more. It is of course entirely the cache owners right to do that. I can think of a few situations where they may need to limit footfall to such an extent that it becomes a condition of the placement permission - although, to be honest with you, I see increasing numbers of people with less than 10 finds as PM status since the new app, so I'm no longer sure that many of the old reasons for making any cache PM only really apply anymore. But, eh, - up to them. They want to do that, it's their right to do so. I imagine things will even out a bit more over the year - we really don't have many virtual placed in this new tranche yet and there will probably be different owner characteristics in the first tranche to the later placements. Quote Link to comment
+JL_HSTRE Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 On 8/27/2017 at 6:19 PM, Peoria Bill said: No cost or admission. Open to the public and accessible. So not most National Parks? Quote Link to comment
kanchan Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I'm one of those 4,000, and have been thinking hard what I could do with it. After reading all of the hatred in the forum, I have to wonder why I'm doing it. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, kanchan said: I'm one of those 4,000, and have been thinking hard what I could do with it. After reading all of the hatred in the forum, I have to wonder why I'm doing it. Congrats ! I haven't seen "hatred" on the subject , but if you somehow feel there is, hopefully it gets straightened out for you. - But I'm just a little curious what the forums would have to do with your cache at all anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, kanchan said: hatred in the forum Two things: I'm not seeing "hatred". You're talking about the forums, where this stuff tends to get talked about far more...ummm...intensely...than in the real world. 3 Quote Link to comment
+Uncle Alaska Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, J Grouchy said: Two things: I'm not seeing "hatred". You're talking about the forums, where this stuff tends to get talked about far more...ummm...intensely...than in the real world. Agree with this ^ Also would add 3. Participants in any given thread here represent a very small sample size of all geocachers. Quote Link to comment
BlueRajah Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I would say 99% Are happy or they do not care. Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 30 minutes ago, BlueRajah said: I would say 99% Are happy or they do not care. I'll throw out some swag numbers too: 58% are happy 24% are ambivalent 15% have no idea virtual caches are back 2.5% are angry, but they would be happy if they were selected as one of the 4k 0.5% think 'this is a sign that geocaching is going downhill' 2 Quote Link to comment
+Rebore Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 49 minutes ago, noncentric said: I'll throw out some swag numbers too: 58% are happy 24% are ambivalent 15% have no idea virtual caches are back 2.5% are angry, but they would be happy if they were selected as one of the 4k 0.5% think 'this is a sign that geocaching is going downhill' Which algorithm did you use to determine these numbers? Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, Rebore said: Which algorithm did you use to determine these numbers? It looked like a set of SWAG numbers to me. Quote Link to comment
+Rebore Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, niraD said: It looked like a set of SWAG numbers to me. I hope you know that I was being sarcastic, when I first heard about virtual rewards I thought hell froze over. I wouldn't have thought so many people have a problem with this and/or their ego. But thanks for the link, I had to implement that quite a few times. Edited August 29, 2017 by Rebore 1 Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Rebore said: I hope you know that I was being sarcastic, when I first heard about virtual rewards I thought hell froze over. I wouldn't have thought so many people have a problem with this and/or their ego. But thanks for the link, I had to implement that quite a few times. Yeah, I figured you weren't seriously asking for noncentric's detailed analysis to produce those numbers. And I've been surprised at the number of complaints from people who seem to feel that Groundspeak has personally insulted and humiliated them by not including them in the 4000. Quote Link to comment
TahoeJoe Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Rebore said: I hope you know that I was being sarcastic, when I first heard about virtual rewards I thought hell froze over. I wouldn't have thought so many people have a problem with this and/or their ego. But thanks for the link, I had to implement that quite a few times. I agree that people's egos were hurt when they were not one of the rewarded group. Human nature tends to kick in for some when they are not part of a selected group. I never considered myself in the running as I don't geocache that much anymore but I can understand being frustrated if you feel you give quality maintained caches to the community and you felt you were left out. Personally I would have just given everyone a virtual to place out there to add new life to the game . Edited August 30, 2017 by TahoeJoe Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 53 minutes ago, Rebore said: Which algorithm did you use to determine these numbers? Sorry, it's a secret. 9 minutes ago, niraD said: Yeah, I figured you weren't seriously asking for noncentric's detailed analysis to produce those numbers. And I've been surprised at the number of complaints from people who seem to feel that Groundspeak has personally insulted and humiliated them by not including them in the 4000. I've been pretty disappointed by some of the complaints I've read in various places, not just the forums, about the Virtual Rewards. Most of the complaints are about the algorithm and how some cachers think that they, or other cachers, deserved the reward more than the cachers that did receive it. I can see how some reward recipients would be discouraged about placing their Virtual, for fear that they'd be 'outed' and other cachers would analyze whether they 'deserved' the reward or not. It's really unfortunate and I hope it doesn't discourage GS from doing something like this again in the future. 3 Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 12 hours ago, noncentric said: Most of the complaints are about the algorithm and how some cachers think that they, or other cachers, deserved the reward more than the cachers that did receive it. I can see how some reward recipients would be discouraged about placing their Virtual, for fear that they'd be 'outed' and other cachers would analyze whether they 'deserved' the reward or not. It's really unfortunate and I hope it doesn't discourage GS from doing something like this again in the future. Indeed. Keeping the list of recipients secret was a good idea. But, there's no getting around the fact that once the listings are published, the public can scrutinize them. The plan was almost perfect Alas, human nature kicks in and ruins everything again. heh Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 23 hours ago, cerberus1 said: Congrats ! I haven't seen "hatred" on the subject , but if you somehow feel there is, hopefully it gets straightened out for you. - But I'm just a little curious what the forums would have to do with your cache at all anyway. I've seen no hatred but lots of sour grapes. 1 Quote Link to comment
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