Have you ever had an issue with muggles on rural caches?

[+HawkMan1999]

So, I recently started placing caches as part of a series I am working on, and have seen an issue with 2 of them on rural roads on public land. The first one had a lady threaten to call the cops on the FTF for being out there, and the second saw another person tell the FTF that she didn't like people being out there around her kids. Neither of these things should be an issue as the caches are VERY clearly on the side of public roads, both in guard rails, and I have never had any issue at either location when I have been out there. I visited both locations numerous times before deciding to place a cache, and never ran into a single person. Has anyone run across anything like this before? And if so, how did you handle it?

[Keystone]

Entire power trails have been archived due to interactions like the ones you describe, as well as many individual caches. 

The best way to guard against unpleasant interactions is to obtain permission from the owner of the land that adjoins the road.

The "right of way" or easements are legal permissions granted by the landowner to the government, public utilities, etc., for purposes such as conveying power lines or underground pipes, placing road signs, etc.  Nowhere is "placing a geocache" included in the list of rights granted by the adjoining landowner.

[+Touchstone]

50 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

Neither of these things should be an issue as the caches are VERY clearly on the side of public roads, both in guard rails, and I have never had any issue at either location when I have been out there.

Irrelevant.  If a local or someone from the area is determined for it to be gone, it will soon be gone.  In most cases, they just grab the cache and throw it away.  In a few cases, they figure out the game and contact Groundspeak and it gets Archived.  In a small handful of cases, they end up here on the Forum's where the majority of User responses are sympathetic and helpful.   I wouldn't get too hung up on the "public" issue, as it has very little bearing on being a good, respectful neighbor.

[+HawkMan1999]

I guess I will have to keep a close eye on it and move it or archive if needed. Kind of disappointing to have to archive, but I suppose that's the price of ownership. 

[+niraD]

I've seen caches archived when they were in public parks and open spaces, when they complied with the formal geocaching policies of those parks and open spaces, because neighbors decided they didn't like people parking on "their" streets, or using "their" trailhead to access the public lands. As Touchstone indicated, if they want it gone, then it will be gone, one way or another.

[+Mausebiber]

Quote

on the side of public roads, both in guard rails

May I just ask, what's so important about those locations, something special to see, a historic site perhaps, a place really nice so you want to share it?

If any of those are given, you might want to talk to the people and explain the situation, if it is just a guard rail and nothing else, you might want to think about, why you have places the cache right here, why you want people to come to this location.

Regards, MB

[+justintim1999]

1 hour ago, HawkMan1999 said:

So, I recently started placing caches as part of a series I am working on, and have seen an issue with 2 of them on rural roads on public land. The first one had a lady threaten to call the cops on the FTF for being out there, and the second saw another person tell the FTF that she didn't like people being out there around her kids. Neither of these things should be an issue as the caches are VERY clearly on the side of public roads, both in guard rails, and I have never had any issue at either location when I have been out there. I visited both locations numerous times before deciding to place a cache, and never ran into a single person. Has anyone run across anything like this before? And if so, how did you handle it?

I currently have a situation that may qualify right now.  I have a mystery cache that's located along a stone wall between conservation land and private property.  The cache is on the conservation side but recently I've noticed (for the first time) the owner of the private property has placed a trail camera on their side of the wall.  I'm not quite sure if they're curious as to why so many people are walking along that particular wall or they're scouting for game as hunting is allowed on the conservation side.   

If the owner is having issues with people entering their property I'll have to seriously consider moving the cache.  This would mean a lot of work on my part as 6 other caches are involved in finding this mystery.  

Currently there are no "private property signs" present so placing one may solve the problem.

If push comes to shove I'll move it because it's not worth a black mark on geocaching and I don't want to cause the people who gave me permission to place the cache any unnecessary grief.

 

[+HawkMan1999]

1 minute ago, Mausebiber said:

May I just ask, what's so important about those locations, something special to see, a historic site perhaps, a place really nice so you want to share it?

If any of those are given, you might want to talk to the people and explain the situation, if it is just a guard rail and nothing else, you might want to think about, why you have places the cache right here, why you want people to come to this location.

Regards, MB

I am working on a series covering Ohio Legends and Tales, and both locations revolve around a couple of historic legends in Ohio. The one includes verifiable history and the only reason I had to use the guard rail was because someone else had placed a cache in the cemetery up the road that I was using for the historical side. The cache they placed was a simple cemetery cache that didn't reference the story I was trying to share, so I had to improvise. The other was simply a legend about the road it is on, and the landowner seemed to be OK with it when he ventured out, it was another person who live a couple miles away that was causing the ruckus there.

[+Mausebiber]

Quote

I am working on a series covering Ohio Legends and Tales, and both locations revolve around a couple of historic legends in Ohio

In this case, try to talk to the people and explain geocaching, let them know that it is a game where you want other to enjoy the beauty of Ohio and especially the very interesting location here.  "Get them into your boat", get them involved, you only can win.

All the best, MB

[+Manville Possum]

37 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

I guess I will have to keep a close eye on it and move it or archive if needed. Kind of disappointing to have to archive, but I suppose that's the price of ownership. 

 

You should have got permission or respected those who live near where your hide is located. Who wants to seek a cache where they are scolded by residents when they come trespassing to seek a geocache? Sounds like nothing more than a guardrail hide, and the price of ownership is being a responsible cache hider.

[+HawkMan1999]

5 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

 

You should have got permission or respected those who live near where your hide is located. Who wants to seek a cache where they are scolded by residents when they come trespassing to seek a geocache? Sounds like nothing more than a guardrail hide, and the price of ownership is being a responsible cache hider.

So you get permission from every single person that lives within a mile radius of every hide you have? Permission is only required for private property and park lands, otherwise there would not be many caches at all. Read my previous post for clarification, but if it was only a guard rail hide I would have no issue just moving it. There has been quite a bit of time and research done for these and other hides I have done and am currently working on.

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, Keystone said:

Entire power trails have been archived due to interactions like the ones you describe, as well as many individual caches. 

The best way to guard against unpleasant interactions is to obtain permission from the owner of the land that adjoins the road.

The "right of way" or easements are legal permissions granted by the landowner to the government, public utilities, etc., for purposes such as conveying power lines or underground pipes, placing road signs, etc.  Nowhere is "placing a geocache" included in the list of rights granted by the adjoining landowner.

Yep. 

Wasn't too long ago I saw a new cacher attempting to find a spot on one of our properties, along the roadside.  

Informed them that MY TAXES say I own out to the road.  Gave 'em the whole spiel about access for utilities, road workers, etc., only.

 - That "VERY clearly on the side of public roads" belongs to ME.

Told them there's no place to park there anyway, so please find somewhere else.  The other 2/3rds told me to be nice...

[+mvhayes1982]

9 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

So you get permission from every single person that lives within a mile radius of every hide you have? Permission is only required for private property and park lands, otherwise there would not be many caches at all. Read my previous post for clarification, but if it was only a guard rail hide I would have no issue just moving it. There has been quite a bit of time and research done for these and other hides I have done and am currently working on.

I've bolded an important section of your post. In the States, there is very little land that isn't "private property" or "park lands". Which is why, for every cache, you should seek permission for whoever owns/manages the land where you are placing a cache. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by mvhayes1982

[+cerberus1]

39 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

So you get permission from every single person that lives within a mile radius of every hide you have? Permission is only required for private property and park lands, otherwise there would not be many caches at all. Read my previous post for clarification, but if it was only a guard rail hide I would have no issue just moving it. There has been quite a bit of time and research done for these and other hides I have done and am currently working on.

Of course you do, if they own the property...     Curious who or where you got your information from.  

Every cache we own or owned had permission. 

If it wasn't for asking permission, others wouldn't have the opportunity to place hides today in some of the areas where we asked , and got the landowners excited about the hobby again.  Many were having issues with people placing caches wherever they wanted on their property, and they were upset with the hobby in general.  Can't blame 'em. .

Some took months to get approval.

Edited August 21, 2017 by cerberus1
addification

[+Manville Possum]

21 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

So you get permission from every single person that lives within a mile radius of every hide you have? Permission is only required for private property and park lands, otherwise there would not be many caches at all. Read my previous post for clarification, but if it was only a guard rail hide I would have no issue just moving it. There has been quite a bit of time and research done for these and other hides I have done and am currently working on.

 

As a cache owner you are knowingly sending people to look for a cache where it has already angered the locals? You need to move it to a place you have permission or archive it.

[+HawkMan1999]

16 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

 

As a cache owner you are knowingly sending people to look for a cache where it has already angered the locals? You need to move it to a place you have permission or archive it.

I wasn't attempting to anger anyone or send anyone somewhere they would be yelled at. I was placing a cache on what I knew as a public roadway where there should be no issues. Some of the replies to this thread have been a little more angry sounding than I anticipated. I appreciate the constructive criticism, but some have me a little put off. I am still learning the ropes of hiding, and have been involved in quite a few hides with a buddy of mine that have turned out great. Depending on where the hide is, I can see where permission would be needed for certain things, but not for every where. There are a ton of hides in my area that I know for a fact there was no permission needed or gotten, if the only thing I am going to see on here is attacks, then I will refrain from posting further.  

[+cerberus1]

14 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

There are a ton of hides in my area that I know for a fact there was no permission needed or gotten

+1   I agree. 

No permission for parking lots, roadsides, and on businesses (stuck to their electrical boxes, chinks in bricks - that kinda thing) are the reason we no longer do them.

Edited August 21, 2017 by cerberus1
explainification

[+Manville Possum]

18 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

I wasn't attempting to anger anyone or send anyone somewhere they would be yelled at. I was placing a cache on what I knew as a public roadway where there should be no issues. Some of the replies to this thread have been a little more angry sounding than I anticipated. I appreciate the constructive criticism, but some have me a little put off. I am still learning the ropes of hiding, and have been involved in quite a few hides with a buddy of mine that have turned out great. Depending on where the hide is, I can see where permission would be needed for certain things, but not for every where. There are a ton of hides in my area that I know for a fact there was no permission needed or gotten, if the only thing I am going to see on here is attacks, then I will refrain from posting further.  

 

I have had problems with roadside caches in rural areas too, and that is why I suggested moving it to where it won't cause problems with the locals or archive it.

The non geocachers in my area would just remove your geocache until you get tired of replacing it. Cache ownership is not for everyone. It can be difficult.

[+niraD]

51 minutes ago, HawkMan1999 said:

if the only thing I am going to see on here is attacks, then I will refrain from posting further.

I'm not sure what "attacks" you're referring to, but there have been plenty of posts from people offering you the benefit of their experience, including some who serve the community as volunteer reviewers. Focus on those posts rather than on the "attacks".

[+barefootjeff]

Earlier this year I was scouting out a new multi with virtual waypoints along a series of waterfalls in one of the local national parks. About 500 metres into the park, where the track crosses the creek on a bridge, I was surprised to see a "Keep Out! Private Property!" sign nailed to a tree, and just as I was about to go upstream to the next waterfall a car came down the track and pulled up alongside me. The woman in it firstly accused me of tresspassing on her land, but when I said I thought I was in a national park and asked her where the park boundary was, she pointed to the bridge. I told her I wasn't going that way and she relented at that point, but when I got home I checked my maps which all showed the private property boundary a further 3.5km along that track. I contacted the national parks office to find out whether the park boundary had changed, but they assured me that the private property sign had been illegally placed, that I was welcome to walk anywhere inside the park and that the ranger would have a talk to the owner of the property at the end of the track about removing the sign and not harrassing park visitors.

A few months later I went back to check but the sign was still there so I ended up abandoning the cache and archiving my unpublished listing. Best not to draw cachers into what was turning out to be a standoff between national parks and the property owner.

[+cerberus1]

4 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 I told her I wasn't going that way and she relented at that point, but when I got home I checked my maps which all showed the private property boundary a further 3.5km along that track.

A bit OT, but the creek next to our first cache is stocked with trout a couple times a year.

The old lady owning property nearby  got numerous warnings from the township, when her "property line" Posted signs regularly kept moving over some feet - just after stocking.    

[+HawkMan1999]

15 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm not sure what "attacks" you're referring to, but there have been plenty of posts from people offering you the benefit of their experience, including some who serve the community as volunteer reviewers. Focus on those posts rather than on the "attacks".

I was feeling boxed in a little, over-reacted. I wound up going out and moving the final to a location where there were no houses around, still on the road but out of the way. I do appreciate advice from those who have been around for a while,  especially reviewers who are well versed in the best practices of hiding a geocache. 

[+hzoi]

18 hours ago, HawkMan1999 said:

Permission is only required for private property

But you hid your caches on private property.  Read Keystone's post again:

20 hours ago, Keystone said:

The "right of way" or easements are legal permissions granted by the landowner to the government, public utilities, etc., for purposes such as conveying power lines or underground pipes, placing road signs, etc.  Nowhere is "placing a geocache" included in the list of rights granted by the adjoining landowner.

Right of way easements don't mean a change of ownership -- only a change in permissions granted by the landowner, who still has title to the property itself.  Interstate highways actually involve condemned land under government control, but small surface streets like this are not public property -- the land owner still owns the land.

[+SeattleWayne]

19 hours ago, HawkMan1999 said:

So you get permission from every single person that lives within a mile radius of every hide you have? Permission is only required for private property and park lands, otherwise there would not be many caches at all. Read my previous post for clarification, but if it was only a guard rail hide I would have no issue just moving it. There has been quite a bit of time and research done for these and other hides I have done and am currently working on.

There's a cache placed in my area on a public road that overlooks farm land near a guard rail and cachers have reported that the land owner would ride up on her quad and chase cachers away from the area. So yeah. Any land owner within the vicinity should be notified of the cache. Imagine how you look when you're looking for a geocache. You have your GPS out, you're pacing around in an area, you're kicking over rocks or pushing through brush or whatever...people get a little freaked out. We, as cachers know exactly what we are doing but for someone who knows nothing about the game might look at us as suspicious characters and soon you're explaining yourself to the local law. 

[+ThePharesWheel]

19 hours ago, HawkMan1999 said:

So you get permission from every single person that lives within a mile radius of every hide you have? Permission is only required for private property and park lands, otherwise there would not be many caches at all. Read my previous post for clarification, but if it was only a guard rail hide I would have no issue just moving it. There has been quite a bit of time and research done for these and other hides I have done and am currently working on.

Sorry, but the ditches/sides of the roads ARE the property of the land owners. Caches definitely should not be posted along the road unless you ask for permission. Too hard for you??  Place it somewhere else...

[+redsox_mark]

I have experienced similar issues finding rural caches.    I find issues are more likely in a rural area (but near houses/property) than in an urban setting.   A busy area with lots of people, I generally can go unnoticed caching.   But at the side of a rural road, in view of a house, which doesn't get much traffic, I stick out like a sore thumb.    

Of course, if rural=in the woods without any houses etc nearby... that's a different matter, and my preference.  No muggles at all.

[+Manville Possum]

Guardrail hides on VDOT property are banned here in Virginia.   I don't like to look for a geocache that draws attention to me in a rural area, but I don't care for roadside caches either unless it's an interesting location. 

[+HawkMan1999]

16 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

Guardrail hides on VDOT property are banned here in Virginia.   I don't like to look for a geocache that draws attention to me in a rural area, but I don't care for roadside caches either unless it's an interesting location. 

There are a ton of them here in Ohio, but they seem pointless without a reason for being there. Just having one to have a cache in that spot doesn't make a lot of sense, but if there is some kind of interesting thing about the spot or area it can be good.

[+2wheels4cache]

As someone who lives in a rural area, here are some issues that may arise:

The geocacher parks on a person's property.

The geocacher causes dogs to bark, cows and horses to run away.

It looks like they might be doing somethng suspicious since people do not usually stop along a rural road to check out the guardral except for road workers

It causes concern if a farmer has property/crops nearby, might you be doing somethng to the soil?

If there is a water source or ditch nearby, concern you are dumping something into it

Question whether you are ditching trash or stray animals on their property?

As property owner it is their responsibility to cut grass, maintain it, etc., which means you have no business beng there or might be messing with their stuff.

 

 

The best thng to do is ask permission from the adjacent land owners.   Also any houses that may have a vew of the geocache hiding area.  

 

Yes guardrails are DOT or Highway Dept property, not the person's property, but did you get DOT or Highway Dept's permssion to use their property?

Edited August 22, 2017 by 2wheels4cache