Location conflict with secret cache

[elmbeard]

I am trying to set a cache in my home town.  There was no proximity clash where I hid the box, according to the Geocache map and using a search, so I submitted it for review.  The reviewer now tells me there is a secret cache nearby, that does not come up with a search and is not marked on the map.  He told me that its co-ordinates are secret and I have to find them myself.  When I clicked on the link he gave, I was informed that it was a Premium cache, which I am denied access to.

This secret premium cache is hogging all the slots in Great Malvern.  What can I do about it?

[+arisoft]

55 minutes ago, elmbeard said:

This secret premium cache is hogging all the slots in Great Malvern.  What can I do about it?

There is nothing you can do for the current hide. If the reviewer did not give you any more detailed instructions, the surrounding area may be already saturated and you have to find another place several hundred meters away from the current.

If there is something special on the area you want to introduce, then you could consider a multi cache with virtual starting point because the saturation rules do not affect virtuals.

Edited August 19, 2017 by arisoft

[+palmetto]

Hi elmbeard, you've run into one of the more frustrating issues in hiding, which is the stages of multi-staged caches. The planning map explains that it's NOT showing hidden stages, only public coords, but few seem to understand that until they encounter the issue.

Unless you've found all these in an area, there's always a risk of encountering one. In your case, compounded by it being PMO and you not having a Premium membership, so you can't even see it to find it.

The cache isn't "secret".  Each time you hide a cache, you can put your proposed cache coords in the Search  pane, and get a list of all the nearby caches. On your unpublished cache page, if you click the link of all nearby caches, that's the same search. The first thing shown is that PMO cache. Because it's a multi-cache, you'd still only know where it started, and not where the final is.

Any given cache isn't "hogging all the slots", it's just occupying it's space with an exclusion zone of 528ft/161 meters around it.

You could ask the reviewer for a direction to move your cache.  Whether they'll offer that is variable to region and specific circumstances.  Some areas, people deliberately crowd caches in hopes of getting final coords by working out distances to unpublished.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by palmetto

[+bflentje]

7 hours ago, elmbeard said:

hogging all the slots in Great Malvern. 

Frustrating yes. But the suggestion of "hogging" isn't necessary. No one is hogging all the spots. You're just a late-comer to the game and missed out on the opportunity for that spot.

[+cerberus1]

9 hours ago, elmbeard said:

This secret premium cache is hogging all the slots in Great Malvern.  What can I do about it?

You've been participating in this hobby for some time, with a multi placed yourself in '06  (and another in '12). 

Don't mean to be rude, but did anyone ever accuse you of "hogging" the area?     

Kinda surprised you haven't faced this before, if always caching as basic.  That pmo's CO  was simply there before you.

Similar to Palmetto, I'd try to work with the Reviewer to maybe find that perfect spot that isn't already covered.   

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by cerberus1

[+niraD]

For reference, see the Help Center article Check for minimum distance.

[elmbeard]

@cerebus1: "Don't mean to be rude, but did anyone ever accuse you of "hogging" the area?"

@bflentje: "You're just a late-comer to the game and missed out"

Maybe it's a national or generational cultural difference, but I was brought up to make life easier for others. The Go-Grabber mentality of the Thatcher era rather offends me, and I'd rather there was room for all of us, instead of leaping in and grabbing the best spot, denying it to all others, and think this is being "virtuous".

I am well aware that my four other boxes may spoil it for others, and don't like it, but three are quite remote, with only one in a central village location.  A series of church micros have been knocking out village and town centres all over the place. Micros have their place, but not if this then stops a larger box or an interesting puzzle cache being set within reach of the centre.  It is why I wonder if 161 metres is just a bit too much, especially in a small town, especially a tourist town like Great Malvern, where slots are limited, but regular visitors may quickly go through the existing caches.  Americans, I know, don't have town centres - they have shopping malls, and their town centres just have a diner and a gas station and are really not that interesting to walk around.  So maybe this is a European issue?

In the end, with 88 Steps, I bagged a spot just out of range of the two others, but this means that any future cache setter must now place it out of the town centre. The park is still available, but after that the town centre is pretty well used up.

Edited August 31, 2017 by elmbeard
Inserted quotation

[+niraD]

Once upon a time, the guidelines actually explained the goals of the saturation guideline, specifically: "to encourage you to seek out new places to hide caches rather than putting them in areas where caches already exist, and to limit the number of caches hidden in a particular area, especially by the same hider."

To me, it sounds like this particular town centre is well-served with geocaches, and it's time to seek out new places to hide them.

[+noncentric]

19 hours ago, elmbeard said:

Americans, I know, don't have town centres - they have shopping malls, and their town centres just have a diner and a gas station and are really not that interesting to walk around.

Uhm. No. Not sure how "you know", but you don't.

--------------

The distance rules have their place. Not sure why you think "town centres" are a good place to hide a cache larger than a micro. Oftentimes, micro caches are the only ones that can avoid being muggled in busy areas. If you want to bring cachers to a "town centre", then you could create a multi with virtual waypoints that highlight interesting aspects of the town. You could even create a Wherigo, although someone just did that to take cachers on a tour of Greater Malvern.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

On 8/31/2017 at 3:15 AM, elmbeard said:

I'd rather there was room for all of us, instead of leaping in and grabbing the best spot, denying it to all others, and think this is being "virtuous".

Isn't this exactly what you're trying to do yourself? Jump and grab that spot before someone else gets it? This is just the reality of hiding caches in popular areas. You have to be first or you're out of luck. 

I'm sure this is a beautiful location but if you're down to adjusting your coordinates a few feet this way or a few feet that way just to squeeze another cache in...then that area is already well served with caches.

I know I've found plenty of caches that made me think "I could've done so much more with this location than just some micro" but then the reality hits that the cache did exactly what a good cache should do: brought me to an interesting, memorable location. The hide doesn't have to knock my socks off as long as the location does. Don't get hung up on the size of the cache or the lack of creativity.

While creative caches are always welcome and admired, sometimes the location is the thing and a nano hidden on a light pole will accomplish the same thing as a handcrafted container. The latter might be more fun to find in terms of caching but both succeeded in bringing you to a wonderful location. 

[+RufusClupea]

On 8/31/2017 at 4:15 AM, elmbeard said:

Americans, I know, don't have town centres - they have shopping malls, and their town centres just have a diner and a gas station and are really not that interesting to walk around. 

 

On 8/31/2017 at 11:46 PM, noncentric said:

Uhm. No. Not sure how "you know", but you don't.

+1.  elmbeard, have you ever been to the rural/semi-rural US (or Canada)--or just to the cities?  We're lousy with town centers (and villages).  Sure, some are more developed than others, but many are nearly as quaint as they were 100-200 years ago--even some suburbs.

Town Centers of America