Grabbing TB - etiquette

[+paperRose]

I am new to all this, so I try to follow the advice I read online.
One of the things I read about Travel Bugs is to log them as soon as possible. Today I found one, but it was not listed as being in the cache. In fact, there had been no activity in over two months. After about an hour I grabbed it from the other user and logged it. Now I have an annoyed message from said user stating that I have shown bad manners in not giving them a chance to log the bug.
What are the accepted rules here? Should I wait before logging if it is not logged to the cache? If so, how long?

Thanks for teaching a newbie some etiquette!

[+cerberus1]

I'd say forget about it.    

The last person has held onto it since June 2nd.    No mention on the trackable page why.  Some would think they stole it...

Today they finally log it into a cache that you just happened to visit afterwards.

They're upset with you, like you should know what the heck they were doing to do?     Weird.

 

In the Help Center on trackables, it does say, "If you pick up a trackable that is not logged into the inventory of the cache you find it in, be considerate and give the person who left it there a few days to post their log online. This lets them complete their part of the trackable's journey, and keeps the trackable's travel record accurate".

 - So you could have looked at the log, to see if names jive with the trackable page, but I'd probably just log it same as you.

As to the "few days" thing, I'll sometimes look to see if they log any finds.  If they can log finds, they can log trackables...

Thank you for correcting the trackable's movement after they grabbed/dropped from you.  

Edited August 13, 2017 by cerberus1

[+NanCycle]

Thank you for taking the trouble to ask.

There's really no easy answer to this, so I'll just agree with cerberus1.

I probably would have waited until the next day--24 hours instead of just one.

And welcome to the geocaching community!

[+dprovan]

No, it's not bad manners to log the TB without waiting for the other person to drop it. After all, what would happen if they waited so long to drop it that you had already dropped it before you could pick it up. Now the next person would be waiting for you! It's not really that big of a deal that they didn't get to log the drop. If they have something to say about the drop, they can log it in a note. The only problem is if they have many earlier visits they planned to make, but if they were taking a TB on a road trip, they should have warned you with a note in the TB log telling you how long it would take them to log the TB's path.

Some people get annoyed, and you ran into one of them. That's actually never happened to me, but if it did, I'd apologize for upsetting them, but I wouldn't apologize for grabbing the TB. Then I'd forget about it.

When I pick up a TB that hasn't been dropped yet, I normally drag my feet a day or two in logging my find of that cache to give them a chance to log the drop, but no one's ever logged the drop in one of those waiting periods, so I worry about it less and less each time it happens.

Very important, though: if you find a TB in a cache it's not logged into and you need to grab it, in your find log for that cache, indicate that the TB visited that cache so the TB's path is reflected correctly. You know the TB was in that cache, so let the system know.

[+noncentric]

This sounds similar to something that happened to me recently. I dropped a TB into a cache I'd found. My name was in the logbook of the cache. An hour later, the CO visited the cache and grabbed the TB from me. A few hours later, I got into cell service and saw the email notification that the TB had been grabbed from me (with a timestamp 1 hour after I had dropped the cache).  In that case, I would've appreciated if the cacher had waited at least a day before grabbing the TB. They could've looked at the logbook and seen that it had been found that day, so it would've been nice if they had waited a day before grabbing the TB.

It looks like that is the same thing that has happened to the OP.  Another cacher retrieved the TB in June, then they placed it in a cache on 8/13. Presumably, they signed the logbook of that cache.  The OP found that same cache on 8/13 and grabbed the TB before the other cachers had logged their drop, which is why it didn't appear in the cache's inventory when the OP found it.

If the OP had looked at the logbook, then they should've seen that other cachers had visited that cache earlier the same day.  Personally, I think it would be nice for cachers to wait at least a day before grabbing a TB from another cacher, especially if it's evident that the other cachers had just visited that cache. But yes, there's no explicit rule about it. I suppose we should all log drops instantaneously, which means using a smartphone and only in places with cell service.

[+on4bam]

My standard practice in cases like this: Grab back (I keep tracking numbers in GSAK), and drop it in the cache I put it in. Send mail to the "grabber" to re-log (retrieve) and mention I would appreciate it if I could have been given the time to log in the evening after getting home. (This doesn't happen that often as most of the time we do caches that are not found daily or even weekly).

 

[+dprovan]

9 hours ago, noncentric said:

In that case, I would've appreciated if the cacher had waited at least a day before grabbing the TB.

I understand that that would have worked out better for you, and that's why I do drag my feet when I find an unlogged TB, but did it really make much difference in practice? To me, the remarkable coincidence of the TB being taken so quickly just adds a little amusement to my log, and, to me at least, that makes up for the fact that I have to log it as a note instead of a drop. The only time it bothers me is if the person that grabbed it fails to have it visit the cache I dropped it in, but in that case, I just send them a note mentioning that they've forgotten to do that. (I'm phrasing this as if I have a standard procedure that I apply regularly, but I think after 7 years of moving along most of the TBs I run into, I've had someone grab a TB before I logged the drop exactly once.)

[+Harry Dolphin]

It is called 'Consideration for your fellow geocachers'.  Allow a minimum of a day.  Better to allow a week.  We don't all log from cell phones.  We don't all have laptops to log via wifi from a motel.  (Well, I do have one now...)  I've had several grabbed from me.  I find that very rude!  The modern concept of entitlement!  Be nice to your fellow geocachers!  Give them the opportunity to log the trackable.  Stop being rude, and obnoxious!  And that's what it is:  rude and obnoxious entitlement!  

[+dprovan]

4 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

It is called 'Consideration for your fellow geocachers'.

Meh. While it's nice to be flexible, when it comes to the case of a TB grab before the drop can be logged, I'd say "consideration" says that the person dropping the TB should react graciously if someone else has to grab it first.

4 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

Allow a minimum of a day.  Better to allow a week.

In most cases, I drop a TB within a day or two of picking it up, and even when I don't drop it right away, I have it visit a cache ever day or so. No way in heck I'm going to hold the TB for a week, incommunicado, just because you haven't logged the drop yet.

Because of this conversation, I went back and looked and the last few grabs I've done on TBs I found in a cache unlogged. For almost every one, the evidence was clear that the TB had been left in the cache long before I found it there. That means that if I'd picked up the TB the day after it was left in the cache and waited for the drop to be logged, I'd still be waiting. So while I appreciate that it's not quite as cool if you don't get to log the drop, you have to recognize that from my point of view, the odds say that if I wait for you, I'll be wasting my time while leaving the TB in limbo unnecessarily. And heaven forbid if I set the TB aside and forget about it while I'm waiting for you...

[+cerberus1]

7 hours ago, dprovan said:

...So while I appreciate that it's not quite as cool if you don't get to log the drop, you have to recognize that from my point of view, the odds say that if I wait for you, I'll be wasting my time while leaving the TB in limbo unnecessarily. And heaven forbid if I set the TB aside and forget about it while I'm waiting for you...

Yeah, I kinda agree...

I used to wait,  and wait... until the last holder would finally decide to drop it. 

Most were logging caches, but somehow never "got around" to logging trackables.  Weird. 

One finally cured me of waiting forever.   Local, well-known,  I realized I'd create issues with the other 2/3rds  (folks would scold her, knowing I don't care ) if I happened to tick  this queen bee type person off ... and let it sit.  

Almost a month later I finally  logged it grabbed, and within an hour it was already grabbed back by Queen Bee and dropped (by log only...)  into the cache.     This nut knew full well what she was doing. 

Sheesh...

[+on4bam]

29 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Yeah, I kinda agree...

I used to wait,  and wait... until the last holder would finally decide to drop it.

I don't think that that was the OP's question. You should at least wait until the day is over (as in: give people the chance to get home to log their day's catch).

 

[+cerberus1]

9 minutes ago, on4bam said:

I don't think that that was the OP's question. You should at least wait until the day is over (as in: give people the chance to get home to log their day's catch).

Well, I was responding to another...

[+dprovan]

1 hour ago, on4bam said:

I don't think that that was the OP's question. You should at least wait until the day is over (as in: give people the chance to get home to log their day's catch).

So first of all, does that mean you agree 100% that it's unreasonable to expect someone to wait a week? That's what Harry Dolphin said we should do, so I want to specifically address that.

Assuming you do agree that a week is too long to expect, the question becomes how quick is too quick. And when I think about it, I have to say there's no logic behind any minimum: someone logging from the field could drop the TB later that day, so I can't say it makes sense for them to delay logging their drop just because a lot of other people log after they get home.

As it happens, I'm an end-of-the-day logger, which often means logging late in the evening, so I understand the practical issue here. I'm all for asking people if they maybe might be able to give people a day to log a trackable, especially when there's evidence to suggest that the drop was quite recent. I've already mentioned that I try to drag my feet before I log a trackable that hasn't been logged in. What I object to is the idea that we're entitled to always log our drops, that anyone thwarting us is being rude, and that our time with that TB will be ruined because we have to file a note where we wanted to file a drop.

[+on4bam]

4 minutes ago, dprovan said:

So first of all, does that mean you agree 100% that it's unreasonable to expect someone to wait a week? That's what Harry Dolphin said we should do, so I want to specifically address that.

Assuming you do agree that a week is too long to expect, the question becomes how quick is too quick. And when I think about it, I have to say there's no logic behind any minimum: someone logging from the field could drop the TB later that day, so I can't say it makes sense for them to delay logging their drop just because a lot of other people log after they get home.

As it happens, I'm an end-of-the-day logger, which often means logging late in the evening, so I understand the practical issue here. I'm all for asking people if they maybe might be able to give people a day to log a trackable, especially when there's evidence to suggest that the drop was quite recent. I've already mentioned that I try to drag my feet before I log a trackable that hasn't been logged in. What I object to is the idea that we're entitled to always log our drops, that anyone thwarting us is being rude, and that our time with that TB will be ruined because we have to file a note where we wanted to file a drop.

Just saying what "I" do.... When I retrieve a TB and, in the evening when I get home and do my logging, see it wasn't dropped yet by the previous cacher, I put the TB on my watchlist. If after a few days (most of the time a day before we go caching again) there's no activity, I will first check  the current holder's profile to check if they logged the cache and e-mail (not message!) asking them to drop the TB. If, after getting back from our cacheday there's no reply/log I'll grab the TB and drop it in the cache I left in in. If I couldn't drop the TB yet I will wait to grab anyway.

As for a TB I drop I think that in 11 years of caching I've never logged later than the morning after a cachingday. Even when we get back late (that's after 20:00) I still upload my logs before midnight.

 

 

[+dprovan]

1 hour ago, on4bam said:

Just saying what "I" do....

Yeah, I'm talking about what we should expect other people to do, so what I or anyone else actually does. That seemed to be more in line with the OP. He got reamed for grabbing too quick. I'm assuring the OP that it's the other person that was rude for demanding he wait.

My practices aren't much different than yours, and originally I handled unlogged TBs more or less as you describe. But after a few years of experience, I discovered that it essentially never makes any difference: I always have to grab the TB, anyway, and visit it to the cache where I found it. So I started caring less and less about waiting except in the rare case where there's some evidence that makes me think the drop will soon be logged.

What finally tipped me over the edge to not caring at all about waiting was a couple unlogged TBs I found where the person that failed to log the drop proceeded to have the TBs visit hundreds of caches over a few months after he no longer had them. Naturally I could tell right away that they were never going to be dropped, so no one would think there was any reason for me to wait, but what struck me is that there's no logical difference between this huge example of the TB's history being utterly false because of the lack of the drop and the more subtle false info in the TB log when I know where the TB was and am holding it in my hand, but I'm not telling anyone.

[+noncentric]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:05 PM, dprovan said:

I understand that that would have worked out better for you, and that's why I do drag my feet when I find an unlogged TB, but did it really make much difference in practice?

I just went back to that TB to remind myself of the circumstances. I had picked up the TB from a cache a week before the drop/grab incident I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread. The cacher that grabbed the TB from me then dropped it into the cache where I had physically placed it, and then they left it there. It sat in that cache for almost 2 months before being retrieved by another cacher. The cacher that grabbed it from me did not grab it to move it along, so in that sense I don't see how 'waiting' would've made much difference in practice.  Besides that, the TB's history seems a bit 'messier' to me, with a grab/place from the grabber and a WriteNote from me.

It doesn't keep me up at nights. It's just my opinion that allowing a cacher some time (1-2 days) to log their drop would be more considerate than grabbing it from them. I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion.

I have had trackables grabbed from me before after I delayed in logging my drops. They were long delays, so it didn't bother me. I should've logged those sooner. It was my own fault.

 

[+on4bam]

@Dprovan It looks like "standard procedure" by cachers is different in CA than here in our area. Most people here seem to log in a timely manner and include retrieving/dropping too so there seem to be little problems although sometimes things happen.

Maybe it also has to do with our caching habits, Leaving/picking up a TB from a cache that gets multiple visits a day will probably have a higher risk of having TBs taken/dropped in a few hours. We prefer not to do "easy" caches where there's at least one or more weeks in between logs.

[+dprovan]

3 hours ago, noncentric said:

I just went back to that TB to remind myself of the circumstances. I had picked up the TB from a cache a week before the drop/grab incident I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread. The cacher that grabbed the TB from me then dropped it into the cache where I had physically placed it, and then they left it there. It sat in that cache for almost 2 months before being retrieved by another cacher. The cacher that grabbed it from me did not grab it to move it along, so in that sense I don't see how 'waiting' would've made much difference in practice.  Besides that, the TB's history seems a bit 'messier' to me, with a grab/place from t

Yeah, OK. I agree that grabbing it just to drop it where it was seen is a different issue. I'd still give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume he had good reason to mistakenly conclude that the drop had been forgotten, but I agree he has to be a little obsessive to worry about that case.

I've grabbed a TB just to drop it where I saw it, but only when it's crystal clear that a drop isn't going to happen. For example, I've seen someone mention dropping that TB in their find log, but they didn't actually log the drop, so when I come around a month later and find the TB right where their find log said it should be, I'll grab it and drop it if I didn't take it. But on the other hand, if I think a drop log might still show up, I'll just mention in my discover log where I saw the TB and just leave it to the next guy to see my comment and conclude that we've all waited long enough.

[+dprovan]

3 hours ago, on4bam said:

@Dprovan It looks like "standard procedure" by cachers is different in CA than here in our area. Most people here seem to log in a timely manner and include retrieving/dropping too so there seem to be little problems although sometimes things happen.

Maybe it also has to do with our caching habits, Leaving/picking up a TB from a cache that gets multiple visits a day will probably have a higher risk of having TBs taken/dropped in a few hours. We prefer not to do "easy" caches where there's at least one or more weeks in between logs.

Right. And when the cache is infrequently visited, statistically it's very unlikely for this problem to come up to begin with, so it's even more reasonable for the person finding the TB to not worry about the possibility that the person that put it there is going to log the drop in the near future. So it still doesn't seem rude to quickly grab the TB.

But on the other hand, if you're finding infrequently found caches, there's plenty of excuse to not rush to log the grab out there in the field. So it's even more reasonable to ask that the grab be delayed to give the dropper more time.

[+Team Microdot]

On 17/08/2017 at 3:36 AM, Harry Dolphin said:

It is called 'Consideration for your fellow geocachers'.  Allow a minimum of a day.  Better to allow a week.  We don't all log from cell phones.  We don't all have laptops to log via wifi from a motel.  (Well, I do have one now...)  I've had several grabbed from me.  I find that very rude!  The modern concept of entitlement!  Be nice to your fellow geocachers!  Give them the opportunity to log the trackable.  Stop being rude, and obnoxious!  And that's what it is:  rude and obnoxious entitlement!  

 

Not sure if the forum checks posts for spelling and grammar but it certainly looks like the hypocrisy checker is absent, disabled or broken.

[+Eartha]

On 8/13/2017 at 3:59 PM, paperRose said:

I am new to all this, so I try to follow the advice I read online.
One of the things I read about Travel Bugs is to log them as soon as possible. Today I found one, but it was not listed as being in the cache. In fact, there had been no activity in over two months. After about an hour I grabbed it from the other user and logged it. Now I have an annoyed message from said user stating that I have shown bad manners in not giving them a chance to log the bug.
What are the accepted rules here? Should I wait before logging if it is not logged to the cache? If so, how long?

Thanks for teaching a newbie some etiquette!

Two months was way long enough to wait to grab it and drop it. You did just fine. Delete the annoyed email, forget all about it, and go find some more caches. Have fun! This is a game, not a competition. Unless you want it to be, but most cachers are playing for themselves.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I used to try to do some sleuthing when I found a trackable in a cache but it was logged as being elsewhere. I've done enough investigating to realize that while that can be a fun little side adventure, in the end, in almost 100% of the cases, I just ended up grabbing the TB and logging it into the cache I found it in and then retrieving it back out anyway. So, now I just grab it from wherever it shows and log the visit from the cache I took it from.

Personally, I've never heard from anyone after I've done this but I imagine a day will come when I'll run into a cacher that gets upset because of it. I'm not going to worry about it. If you participate in moving trackables, you have the obligation to log the visit in a timely manner. If you don't/can't log the trackable before it gets grabbed from you, perhaps you need to reevaluate your methods or just learn to let it go and move on. 

 

[+cerberus1]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 3:59 PM, paperRose said:

I am new to all this, so I try to follow the advice I read online.
One of the things I read about Travel Bugs is to log them as soon as possible. Today I found one, but it was not listed as being in the cache. In fact, there had been no activity in over two months. After about an hour I grabbed it from the other user and logged it. Now I have an annoyed message from said user stating that I have shown bad manners in not giving them a chance to log the bug.
What are the accepted rules here? Should I wait before logging if it is not logged to the cache? If so, how long?

Thanks for teaching a newbie some etiquette!

Got another today.

It not only wasn't listed in the cache I found it in, it wasn't listed at the earlier event where one "Discovered" it either.

Picked up by "someone"  (no clue who...)  over a month ago,  from a couple states away.  

The  "Discover" admitted to seeing it at an event that was nearby a week or so earlier or I wouldn't have known that.    

  -     I grabbed, dropped and retrieved it from the cache found...

[+Team Microdot]

6 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Got another today.

It not only wasn't listed in the cache I found it in, it wasn't listed at the earlier event where one "Discovered" it either.

Picked up by "someone"  (no clue who...)  over a month ago,  from a couple states away.  

The  "Discover" admitted to seeing it at an event that was nearby a week or so earlier or I wouldn't have known that.    

  -     I grabbed, dropped and retrieved it from the cache found...

Nicely done

[+noncentric]

On 8/17/2017 at 5:26 PM, dprovan said:

Yeah, OK. I agree that grabbing it just to drop it where it was seen is a different issue. I'd still give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume he had good reason to mistakenly conclude that the drop had been forgotten, but I agree he has to be a little obsessive to worry about that case.

I've grabbed a TB just to drop it where I saw it, but only when it's crystal clear that a drop isn't going to happen. For example, I've seen someone mention dropping that TB in their find log, but they didn't actually log the drop, so when I come around a month later and find the TB right where their find log said it should be, I'll grab it and drop it if I didn't take it. But on the other hand, if I think a drop log might still show up, I'll just mention in my discover log where I saw the TB and just leave it to the next guy to see my comment and conclude that we've all waited long enough.

Ugh. I had it happen again. I dropped a TB into a cache, or at least, I thought I did. I might've messed up something while using the app. I'm a bit behind in my Field Notes after having a couple busy months, both with caching and with life in general. It also doesn't help that I can't find the USB cable for my GPSr.

Anyway, the TB that I thought I dropped into a cache last week was grabbed from me by someone that then dropped it into that same cache. Didn't "Retrieve" it, just "Grabbed" and "Dropped", so it's still sitting in the same cache that I thought I dropped it into. Again, not a huge deal that would keep me up at night, just something that doesn't fit with my way of doing things. If I was that concerned about other people's TB's being logged in the correct place, then the first thing I'd do is contact the cacher that's shown as holding it and reminding them that the TB wasn't logged into the cache.

 

[+NanCycle]

OK, so he may be a super hider, but someone who just had a new Virtual cache published picked up one of my TBs in June without bothering to log it.  Finally two month later, after it has been marked missing because it was reported as not being in the cache where it was listed, he wakes up and decides to grab it.  No apology for late logging or anything.  

Quote

 

08/22/2017	Redacted   grabbed it
Moving along.

 

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'll admit that I grabbed a TB from a cache.  The cache had not been found in 3.5 years.  (Well, except by muggles.)  The TB had been marked as 'missing' from the previous cache.  The TB owner had not logged in since 2011.  My nephew grabbed it from me and took it to Australia.  

[+Happy Hirds]

Hello, everyone!  I have recently "grabbed" two trackables but have since learned that I should have "retrieved" them as grabbing affects distance travelled.  I messaged support to find out how to fix the problem but after two blanket responses - I'm no closer to sorting it.  I was told to delete my original log and then re-log it.  However, when I go to re-log it only gives me the option to "write note".  It doesn't allow me to now grab or retrieve.  Can any one help?  I want to do right by the trackable owner.  Thanks in advance!

[+on4bam]

Drop it back in the cache you "grabbed" it from then retrieve the TB(s) from that cache. You can the delete your first grab and note.

 

[+Happy Hirds]

You are an absolute STAR!  That has worked a treat!  Thank you sooooooo much! 

 

[+CAVinoGal]

On 9/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, on4bam said:

Drop it back in the cache you "grabbed" it from then retrieve the TB(s) from that cache. You can the delete your first grab and note.

OK, it appears we followed the correct procedure on a trackable we took from a cache back in October in Joshua Tree NM.  (I was searching to see if we did it "right" and came across this thread).

We opened the cache to find it STUFFED full of trackables, it was like Christmas!  We went through the bunch, and hubby and I each took 3, and left a couple.  Trying to log them later, none of them were in the cache. We were on a family camping trip, so waited till we got home, and the trackables started appearing in the cache so we could retrieve the ones we took.  It seems one person had dumped a pile of them just before we found the cache!  One of them never did show up in the cache, and yesterday, hubby found it in his bag and wondered why it didn't show in his inventory ... investigating led us to recall it was one he'd picked up in Joshua Tree, and it showed no travel, just passed from one geocacher to another.

So he grabbed it from the one who had left it in Joshua Tree, then dropped it and retrieved it in that cache on the day we actually found it, and back logged visits to various caches we have traveled to since then.  Now it shows some mileage, but it just kind of appears in the cache according to the map.  Apparently it was in limbo for over a year ... and hopefully we did the right thing by getting it on the map and moving it around.  No communication from the TO, though we don't appear to speak the same language.

 

[+casheddie]

So I have a situation I would like to get feedback on:

I am the owner of a TB that was placed in a nearby TB hotel.  A cacher physically took the TB and logged it as a grab instead of a retrieve. I sent message to user explaining that they should correct the logging as such. Some time later, the user logs the TB as a drop in the original cache it was placed in but never logs a retrieve. 

I go check the cache to see if user actually physically put the TB back in cache but TB is not there.  I send several messages aftwards to user explaining how to log and move TB along but no responses. 

I then did a grab on the TB and placed it back in my inventory so that it's not falsely listed in a cache it's no longer in and sent another messasge to user explaining what I did and giving them instructions on how to grab it back and drop it in a new cache if they still intend to move it along.  I also posted a note on the TB log informing any future users that may find it that the TB may be lost and if found, please grab it and log it in new cache.

Did I do the right thing?  Should I have logged it as missing instead?  I just didn't want the TB to receive a bunch of "not found in cache" logs while falsely listed in a cache I know it no longer lives in.  Thanks for any feedback. 

[+cerberus1]

5 hours ago, casheddie said:

Did I do the right thing? 

When you're dealing with other people, who knows?   

I believe multiple "messages" to others (helpful or not...) lessens the odds of you ever seeing your trackable again.

Possible you'd get the person who really doesn't know and appreciates the "help" in an accurate log.  Another may see it as  interfering, and the last couple years see this trait more than we'd like to admit.

Grabbing, then "Visiting" caches with a trackable no longer  in your possession doesn't help others trying to figure out what to do with it if found...

[+kunarion]

5 hours ago, casheddie said:

I then did a grab on the TB and placed it back in my inventory so that it's not falsely listed in a cache it's no longer in and sent another messasge to user explaining what I did and giving them instructions on how to grab it back and drop it in a new cache if they still intend to move it along.  I also posted a note on the TB log informing any future users that may find it that the TB may be lost and if found, please grab it and log it in new cache.

 

It depends on which false listing you'd prefer.

Since the TB is not in the taker's Inventory, there will need to be at least two logs to fix it, even it it's marked “missing”. Either the current holder grabs it, then drops it, or the next taker would need to do that, after finding it in a cache.

Most of the time, you're better off to just watch what takers do, and enjoy the ride. But be careful about deleting TB logs. That can cause a tangled mess that can't be undone. The logs on your TB look like you've held it the whole time, so the note looks odd.

[+casheddie]

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

When you're dealing with other people, who knows?   

I believe multiple "messages" to others (helpful or not...) lessens the odds of you ever seeing your trackable again.

Possible you'd get the person who really doesn't know and appreciates the "help" in an accurate log.  Another may see it as  interfering, and the last couple years see this trait more than we'd like to admit.

Grabbing, then "Visiting" caches with a trackable no longer  in your possession doesn't help others trying to figure out what to do with it if found...

Ok.  I thought by me grabbing it back to my inventory would help in preventing TB being logged as "not found in cache" and adding that not would explain what happened to the TB and why I grabbed it back.  

2 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

It depends on which false listing you'd prefer.

Since the TB is not in the taker's Inventory, there will need to be at least two logs to fix it, even it it's marked “missing”. Either the current holder grabs it, then drops it, or the next taker would need to do that, after finding it in a cache.

Most of the time, you're better off to just watch what takers do, and enjoy the ride. But be careful about deleting TB logs. That can cause a tangled mess that can't be undone. The logs on your TB look like you've held it the whole time, so the note looks odd.

Ok.  I don't plan to delete any of the logs. I just didn't want it in limbo logged into a cache it's no longer in.  If it happens to get moved along by the last person who had it, they would either log it properly per my instructions or they would just physically drop it in a cache and not log it, then when found by another person, they would do the grab,  drop and retrieve. Dont see how that is being stranger than someone grabbing TB, saying they going to move it in TB log then drops it back in the same cache they physically took it from but don't retrieve it again or actually put it back there physically.  Sorry but I'm new to all of this so just seem strange why people can't follow directions clearly outlined.  

[+cerberus1]

We see "trackable not in cache" logs often these days.  Sign of the times I guess...But that's usually an accurate log that at least keeps a CO and TO  informed of possible issues.   Sometimes they're even still there (I've found a few that were supposedly missing).  Yours wasn't.

The cacher incorrectly Grabbed it only a couple days ago (12/2).  Their first trackable.  Instead of a pleasant "yay us!" experience, they have a TO messaging them numerous times in just a couple days (as " I send several messages aftwards to user explaining how to log and move TB along but no responses." says).   I'd ask how would you feel?    We know of a quite a few people who'd be put off by that and not respond as well.  I'm one.

No offense, but "grabbing back"  when you don't have it doesn't follow log procedures either.    - Something to think about when educating others. 

Kunarion's correct, most times it's better to allow that simple error from a newbie to trackables.  Most TOs are happy that it at least keeps moving.  Another could fix it when/if found.    

Edited December 9, 2017 by cerberus1

[+casheddie]

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

We see "trackable not in cache" logs often these days.  Sign of the times I guess...But that's usually an accurate log that at least keeps a CO and TO  informed of possible issues.   Sometimes they're even still there (I've found a few that were supposedly missing).  Yours wasn't.

The cacher incorrectly Grabbed it only a couple days ago (12/2).  Their first trackable.  Instead of a pleasant "yay us!" experience, they have a TO messaging them numerous times in just a couple days (as " I send several messages aftwards to user explaining how to log and move TB along but no responses." says).   I'd ask how would you feel?    We know of a quite a few people who'd be put off by that and not respond as well.  I'm one.

No offense, but "grabbing back"  when you don't have it doesn't follow log procedures either.    - Something to think about when educating others. 

Kunarion's correct, most times it's better to allow that simple error from a newbie to trackables.  Most TOs are happy that it at least keeps moving.  Another could fix it when/if found.    

Thanks for the feedback. Again, I'm new and want to play by the rules as best as I can. I will drop it back in the cache it was last seen in and let it go.  If it turns up again, great. If not, I can always mark it missing after a period of time and send out the copy tag.  

[+Harry Dolphin]

11 hours ago, casheddie said:

So I have a situation I would like to get feedback on:

I am the owner of a TB that was placed in a nearby TB hotel.  A cacher physically took the TB and logged it as a grab instead of a retrieve. I sent message to user explaining that they should correct the logging as such. Some time later, the user logs the TB as a drop in the original cache it was placed in but never logs a retrieve. 

I go check the cache to see if user actually physically put the TB back in cache but TB is not there.  I send several messages aftwards to user explaining how to log and move TB along but no responses. 

I then did a grab on the TB and placed it back in my inventory so that it's not falsely listed in a cache it's no longer in and sent another messasge to user explaining what I did and giving them instructions on how to grab it back and drop it in a new cache if they still intend to move it along.  I also posted a note on the TB log informing any future users that may find it that the TB may be lost and if found, please grab it and log it in new cache.

Did I do the right thing?  Should I have logged it as missing instead?  I just didn't want the TB to receive a bunch of "not found in cache" logs while falsely listed in a cache I know it no longer lives in.  Thanks for any feedback. 

The other cacher should have logged 'retrieved' rather than 'grabbed'.  But either way it was in their possession.  When you, unnecessarily. asked them to change their log, it seems they did not know the proper way to handle it, and incorrectly 'dropped' it back into the cache.  At that point, you should probably have logged it as missing.  Of course, none of this would have happened if you had not e-mailed them.  I guess my question is how you can log a 'visited' to every cache you log, when you do not have it in your possession?

[+casheddie]

26 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

The other cacher should have logged 'retrieved' rather than 'grabbed'.  But either way it was in their possession.  When you, unnecessarily. asked them to change their log, it seems they did not know the proper way to handle it, and incorrectly 'dropped' it back into the cache.  At that point, you should probably have logged it as missing.  Of course, none of this would have happened if you had not e-mailed them.  I guess my question is how you can log a 'visited' to every cache you log, when you do not have it in your possession?

Thanks for the edification.   Again I'm learning here without creating more of a mess so what do you suggest I do at the point?  I'm not going to contact cacher anymore ( I guess I've harassed them enough already ☺). Should I drop it back in cache? Delete my visit logs? Didn't think managing TBs would be such a complex task (maybe I made it more complex than it needed to be through my ignorance).  

Edited December 9, 2017 by casheddie

[+cerberus1]

6 minutes ago, casheddie said:

 Didn't think managing TBs would be such a complex task (maybe I made it more complex than it needed to be...  

That's the ticket.         ...  And thanks for not lashing at me.    

Pretty sure (it was for us) that we all had that cool feeling of our first toy sent out, maybe world-wide, and kept track with intense excitement. 

 - Then we realize that once that thing leaves your hands, you really have no control of it .  So easier on your nerves (and save on Tums) to let it go, and keep your fingers crossed that it just keeps traveling.   

[+Harry Dolphin]

Way back when, Trackables were fun and interesting!  But times have changed, and Groundspeak has changed.  Cachers these days seem to have little consideration for Trackables.  I've sent out 43 Trackables.  12 of which I have not marked as missing.  One moved this year, though no one has picked it up.  One moved last year.  I doubt it's in the cache.  Five moved in 2015.  Two held by cachers who picked them up in 2014.  One held by a cacher since 2013.  One since 2012.  One since 2011.  And, of course, my favorite, retrieved by a cacher who found one cache in 2006!  Five registered that i have not bothered putting out.  And a few that I have not bothered registering.  Times have changed.  

[+casheddie]

6 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

That's the ticket.         ...  And thanks for not lashing at me.    

Pretty sure (it was for us) that we all had that cool feeling of our first toy sent out, maybe world-wide, and kept track with intense excitement. 

 - Then we realize that once that thing leaves your hands, you really have no control of it .  So easier on your nerves (and save on Tums) to let it go, and keep your fingers crossed that it just keeps traveling.   

 

4 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

Way back when, Trackables were fun and interesting!  But times have changed, and Groundspeak has changed.  Cachers these days seem to have little consideration for Trackables.  I've sent out 43 Trackables.  12 of which I have not marked as missing.  One moved this year, though no one has picked it up.  One moved last year.  I doubt it's in the cache.  Five moved in 2015.  Two held by cachers who picked them up in 2014.  One held by a cacher since 2013.  One since 2012.  One since 2011.  And, of course, my favorite, retrieved by a cacher who found one cache in 2006!  Five registered that i have not bothered putting out.  And a few that I have not bothered registering.  Times have changed.  

Thank you both for your informative feedback.  This helps me reshape my perspective on TBs.  I'm sure I've turned off another cacher through my intense overzealous actions to try and fix something that wasn't broken.  That was never my intention.  I will just drop it back in cache and let it go.  

[+dprovan]

12 hours ago, casheddie said:

Thank you both for your informative feedback.  This helps me reshape my perspective on TBs.  I'm sure I've turned off another cacher through my intense overzealous actions to try and fix something that wasn't broken.  That was never my intention.  I will just drop it back in cache and let it go.  

If you feel like you made a mistake, apologizing and explaining would probably undo the damage of turning off the other cacher. In fact, showing a personal interest in talking it over might make that person feel better about geocaching than before.

I don't think you've done anything particularly wrong, so I'm not saying you need to apologize, but since you feel bad about it, there's no reason not to talk it over with him and maybe make a new friend. Too often these days geocachers seem quick to forget that the other person is just another geocacher that wants to have fun. And sometimes that makes us forget that the easiest solutions to most geocaching problems is to talk it over.

[+casheddie]

4 hours ago, dprovan said:

If you feel like you made a mistake, apologizing and explaining would probably undo the damage of turning off the other cacher. In fact, showing a personal interest in talking it over might make that person feel better about geocaching than before.

I don't think you've done anything particularly wrong, so I'm not saying you need to apologize, but since you feel bad about it, there's no reason not to talk it over with him and maybe make a new friend. Too often these days geocachers seem quick to forget that the other person is just another geocacher that wants to have fun. And sometimes that makes us forget that the easiest solutions to most geocaching problems is to talk it over.

Well I think I sent enough emails to the cacher trying to explain that I was only trying to be helpful so I don't think another email will change anything. I have fixed the logs and recalculated the mileage so that it is a zero so everything is back to where it originally was after cacher logged a drop again into the cache. It's a lesson learned on my part and I appreciate the good feedback given here. As far I'm concerned,  the issue is resolved and I have moved on. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by casheddie

[+CAVinoGal]

Relatively new to the game (since March 2017) and just getting into trackables.  I've released a few, retrieved and dropped several, and usually have 2 or 3 with me at any one time to visit to caches, or swap out at a suitable hotel...  Finding a suitable cache to drop trackables is a challenge in itself!  I dropped a couple in a cache recently that will likely not be found again till spring, but they're not going to be muggled either.  It WILL be a geocacher who finds and moves them!!

I own one cache that is conducive to trackables and use it as a drop for some that I collect; if you are selective about the trackables you pick up (you are able to fulfill or help them along in their mission) and try to place them in caches where they are likely to be picked up in a timely manner, or not likely to be muggled, trackables can be a very enjoyable side game.  I've seen my son lose some very creative trackables - it happens. So the few that I've released are out there ... I know I may never see them again and they may disappear, but it's fun to watch them as long as I can.

Learning to log them properly and give them mileage - that's a new learning experience!