PQ List Sorting: Incorrect Caches displayed

[+Kiyachan&Dekar]

I ran into a weird sorting bug when listing caches found in a Pocket Query. The query was made for a region in Sweden (Småland). When I change to the list preview of the PQ (location of the view: https://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?pq=...) and then sort the list by favorite points, it shows caches in Denmark - far away from the area that has been queried.

See attached screenshots.

The GUID of my PQ is a4b2d05d-3039-4947-ab2c-e83b3e51795.

I was able to reproduce this issue with the following PQ settings:

• Search around GC22XER with 200km radius, maximum results 1000
• Cache type filter "traditional" and "multi"
• Difficulty and terrain filter "4 or less"
• Sent on Wednesday, clear the weekday after the PQ has been executed

State before sorting:

 

Map view:

State after sorting:

Edited August 9, 2017 by Kiyachan&Dekar
Better picture for state before sorting

[+hzoi]

First, check your GUID - I tried taking a shortcut and got an error message that it should be 32 characters with 4 dashes (yours is only 31, I think you're missing the last character).

 

But as to your overall post, I don't think it's an error, I think you're just seeing different results when you're asking the pocket query to show you different things.

 

I don't see Småland listed as a state/province in the Pocket Query options, so keep in mind that your pocket query isn't going to limit its search to within the borders of Småland - it's going to search based on the parameters you give it and then return the top 1,000 results based on your configuration.  If you use the old search tool on the site, you'll see that there are at present over 53,317 caches within 130 miles (just over 200 km) of GC22XER.  The pocket query is only giving you the first 1,000 results, and the default is that it's sorting by proximity -- your map above shows a nice, tight circle of the first 1,000 caches of that 53,000 total.  When you sort by favorite points, though, the pocket query recalculates in order to show you the top 1,000 caches sorted by favorites.  That's going to give you top favorite points regardless of where they appear within that 200km circle.

 

You can further limit your pocket query by selecting within and then choosing only Sweden -- that would eliminate those pesky Danish caches.

 

 

[+Kiyachan&Dekar]

That explains the behavior. I assumed that the PQ extracts a fixed set of caches matching the query starting from the center until the maximum count is reached, and then applies the sorting key. As a matter of fact, it applies the sorting key first and then lists the caches until the limit. This is especially confusing since the page is called nearest.aspx, wrongly insinuating that the list always shows the nearest caches to the center of the query when it in fact does not - its contents depend on the sorting key, not the distance. It might not even show any cache that is close to the center - all of the caches could be miles away when the result set is large.

-> Then there is another inconsistency: Applying a sorting key to the list (like e.g. favorite count) has no effect on the map preview that can be reached on the top of the page. The map always displays the 1000 closest caches to the center of the query, no matter what the list currently shows due to the selected sorting key.

For the sake of completion: the correct GUID is a4b2d05d-3039-4947-ab2c-e83b3e51795f

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Kiyachan&Dekar

[+hzoi]

19 hours ago, Kiyachan&Dekar said:

For the sake of completion: the correct GUID is a4b2d05d-3039-4947-ab2c-e83b3e51795f

Apparently I can't view it anyway.  But at least the record is clear. 

19 hours ago, Kiyachan&Dekar said:

Applying a sorting key to the list (like e.g. favorite count) has no effect on the map preview that can be reached on the top of the page. The map always displays the 1000 closest caches to the center of the query, no matter what the list currently shows due to the selected sorting key.

Hmm.  Well, that's unfortunate.  I try to keep my pocket queries under 1000, so I've never experienced this.

 

We could use more ways to fine-tune and sort through pocket queries - the pocket query tool hasn't been updated to include favorite points at all, even though favorite points have been around since late 2010.  Maybe it's time for an upgrade. 

 

Meanwhile, there may be ways to accomplish what you want through an API partner, like project-GC.com or GSAK.

[+Kiyachan&Dekar]

24 minutes ago, hzoi said:

I try to keep my pocket queries under 1000, so I've never experienced this.

That's what I'm going to do from now on to prevent the issue from happening. It is not a massive blocker for me, I just think that the PQ tool is behaving inconsistently.

24 minutes ago, hzoi said:

We could use more ways to fine-tune and sort through pocket queries - the pocket query tool hasn't been updated to include favorite points at all, even though favorite points have been around since late 2010.  Maybe it's time for an upgrade. 

I also have the impression that the PQ tool hasn't received a major update for a long time - neither internally nor in the frontend-part. Maybe its one of those features that are notoriously hard to change - it can only guess that its inner workings are rather complex given the many parameters it has.

As the webpages and the app are undergoing major changes and rewrites at the moment, I hope that the PQ tool will be renovated as well.

 

Anyway: Thanks for your input, hzoi!

Edited August 10, 2017 by Kiyachan&Dekar

[+HHL]

[removed screenshot]

You'll need to create appr. 40 PQs for downloading Trads/Multis with D4/T4 from Småland.
Do you want to cache in the entire South of Sweden?

Hans

Edited August 10, 2017 by HHL

[+HHL]

There are also some smart download strategies with local PQs (where you're going to stay and cache) and Route-PQs:

Hans

Edited August 10, 2017 by HHL

[+HHL]

On 9.8.2017 at 9:29 PM, hzoi said:

[...] I don't see Småland listed as a state/province in the Pocket Query options, [...]

Right, it's a historical region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Småland and probably mentioned as such. ;-)

Hans

Edited August 11, 2017 by HHL

[+dprovan]

On 8/10/2017 at 8:59 AM, Kiyachan&Dekar said:

I also have the impression that the PQ tool hasn't received a major update for a long time - neither internally nor in the frontend-part. Maybe its one of those features that are notoriously hard to change - it can only guess that its inner workings are rather complex given the many parameters it has.

When the API came out a few years ago, the claim was that the API made PQs obsolete, so PQs wouldn't be developed any further. I haven't heard anyone say that for a while, so I can't say for sure that's still the thinking, but the amount of PQ development since then -- i.e., none -- suggests that it is. Originally I was kinda sad about that since everything I do centers around PQs, so I was looking forward to them being upgraded, but now after the other changes, I'm kinda appreciating the same old PQ page that still does what it always did.

[+The A-Team]

3 minutes ago, dprovan said:

When the API came out a few years ago, the claim was that the API made PQs obsolete, so PQs wouldn't be developed any further. I haven't heard anyone say that for a while, so I can't say for sure that's still the thinking, but the amount of PQ development since then -- i.e., none -- suggests that it is. Originally I was kinda sad about that since everything I do centers around PQs, so I was looking forward to them being upgraded, but now after the other changes, I'm kinda appreciating the same old PQ page that still does what it always did.

PQs as we currently see them are on the chopping block, but we've been promised some form of replacement downloading tool at some unspecified point in the future. Whether this is based on the API or something more similar to PQs, we don't know. However, one thing we can be fairly certain of is that some of the oft-used functionality currently present in PQs will probably go away because it's too hard to code in the new tool, it isn't being used by enough people, it's too confusing for a new user, TPTB just don't think we should be doing it that way anymore, etc. That seems to be the pattern with other recent changes, even with the dashboard where TPTB have been more transparent and communicative, so I fully expect it to continue.