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responsibility + cost


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I was just thinking about geocaching resposibilities and expenses of when you take on owning a cache you basically have to have duplicate cache containers ready to go for the life of the cache in case of disappearances at any point in time.

Some of these containers range more than $5 a piece on some caches and others much more.

Then I was thinking of the CO's that have hundreds of caches out there. Do you think mass owned caches suffer in upkeep and response and do you think these type CO's know what they are getting themselves in for when signing up as an owner and providing an adequate experience to the games design. More caches mean more money needed to keep them up right?

Edited by sasquatchlover
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All regular size caches we have left  are ammo cans, placed in  '09, '10 and '11, all are still fine.  Theft might be an issue someday...

This area, lucky to get a couple years out of plastics.

-------------------------

 - Not responding to the "Then I was thinking..." part, as there's already more than enough  power trail and their lack of maintenance threads.

 

 

 

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It's handy to have a replacement cache handy, but if you don't, simply disable the and then you have a couple of weeks to get the replacement in service.  The replacement does not have to be a duplicate of the original although it's best if its in the same size category.  If the container is described in cache description and the replacement doesn't match the original you need to edit the description to account for the replacement.

Edited by GeoTrekker26
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What's the longest reasonable time given for replacement without disabling a cache and how long can you disable a cache before enabling it again?

If you disable a cache does it disappear from the app map? If it does what's to show people placing new caches in the area that there is a disabled cache there that could be enabled at any time?

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17 minutes ago, sasquatchlover said:

What's the longest reasonable time given for replacement without disabling a cache and how long can you disable a cache before enabling it again?

If you disable a cache does it disappear from the app map? If it does what's to show people placing new caches in the area that there is a disabled cache there that could be enabled at any time?

1. You should disable the cache as soon as you learn it's missing. Otherwise you knowingly lead people to a cache that is not there.

2. The time you have can reach up to few months: first there is the time before the reviewer notices your cache is disabled. He then gives you one month to replace it but you can post a note if you need more time. Of course you should ask for more time only if you really intend to replace the cache.

3. Visibility on the map depends on the app filters. Usually people filter out disabled caches. Even if they don't the app shows which caches are disabled.

4. Disabled cache still keeps the 161m radius reserved. What's more, the reviewer also checks if there are no other caches in the 161m range (there still might be caches or waypoints you can't see) when someone tries to publish a new cache.

 

 

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Disabled caches are shaded on the map.  Light gray last I remember.   Can be seen by all.

"Reasonable time" often depends on the cache location and what's needed to fix it.   Talk to your Reviewer if unsure.

  - A simple 1.5 park n grab probably wouldn't have the same timeframe to fix as a "5" terrain cache on the top of a mountain.

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My experience is that you'll get a month to repair/replace a cache that you've disabled, with no questions asked.

If you need longer than that, then you can post a note or some other log explaining the situation. I had a cache that was disabled for several months before I was finally able to re-enable it. Construction blocked access, then there were multiple construction delays, then the cache site was changed in a way that required me to change the hide/camouflage style completely. It isn't a problem as long as you keep everyone (especially the volunteer reviewers) updated on the current status.

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Ammo cans are $10 or so, but I spent $40 on building one of my gadget caches - that's the most I've spent so far. 

I just had a cache archived because I failed to keep the reviewer informed of why I'd not re-enabled it.  I was waiting for new permission from the doctor's office it's placed at, after finding out that they'd changed management.  It took several months, and I got the permission two weeks too late, and I'm hoping the reviewer will unarchive it... gadget cache locations w/approval are hard to get.

 

Edited by Schirf
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As long as you're communicating with your local reviewer on when you plan to replace/fix the cache in question, there shouldn't be any issues. Reviewers will leave notes for you to respond, and if you decide to ignore those notes then they will archive your cache. 

 

If your cache gets archived, you can always ask to have it unarchived. But I wouldn't make a habit out of letting reviewers archive your stuff only to ask to have it unarchived because you all of a sudden became serious about maintaining your caches. 

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To your question about cost. Yes it can cost  $5 or more to replace a cache.  Or it could be a container you already use that doesn't cost anything. It still costs in time spent and all but this is a hobby. My other hobby is fishing.  It also takes time and money.  I have often found a new type of fish I  want to go for and the rod and reel set up has ran me over $300 and sometimes use a lure that might cost over $15 and I might loose that in a single cast getting it snagged.  I have also bought boats and tuns of other gear.  Heck the fishing license costs me over $60 a year.

  I own over 200 caches and spend more time lately caching over fishing but my guess is I still spend more on fishing then caching per year.

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Nope, the rules changed. If the reviewer archives your cache there is no way backnother than publiching a new cache. The cache can be unarchived if the owner archives it but it isn't guaranteed because someone else can take the place or the cache is unpublishable according to the new rules.


Edit: my reply was obviously about unarchiving, not the costs which were posted in the mean time...

Edited by TheVoytekBear
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5 minutes ago, TheVoytekBear said:

Nope, the rules changed. If the reviewer archives your cache there is no way backnother than publiching a new cache. The cache can be unarchived if the owner archives it but it isn't guaranteed because someone else can take the place or the cache is unpublishable according to the new rules.

I don't know if this is true or not but I pretty much think it is a good idea unless it is due to illness or something that the CO was unable to respond. If a CO had some long lasting caches with many favorites and say got into a major car accident and was out for months then got better to realize some of his favorite caches were archived and no way to get them back that would be messed up.

 A CO that just didn't bother to respond and then found themselves in the area months later and replaced I can see that as being a reason not to unarchive it.

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9 hours ago, TheVoytekBear said:

Nope, the rules changed. If the reviewer archives your cache there is no way backnother than publiching a new cache. The cache can be unarchived if the owner archives it but it isn't guaranteed because someone else can take the place or the cache is unpublishable according to the new rules.


Edit: my reply was obviously about unarchiving, not the costs which were posted in the mean time...

Oh. I stand corrected then. Thanks for the update. ^_^

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9 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

To your question about cost. Yes it can cost  $5 or more to replace a cache.  Or it could be a container you already use that doesn't cost anything. It still costs in time spent and all but this is a hobby. My other hobby is fishing.  It also takes time and money.  I have often found a new type of fish I  want to go for and the rod and reel set up has ran me over $300 and sometimes use a lure that might cost over $15 and I might loose that in a single cast getting it snagged.  I have also bought boats and tuns of other gear.  Heck the fishing license costs me over $60 a year.

  I own over 200 caches and spend more time lately caching over fishing but my guess is I still spend more on fishing then caching per year.

Yep. Hobbies can cost money. :rolleyes:

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I only have 2 caches right now as I'm a baby to this game but each cache has a container within a container and I have duplicates ready to go of all these. 

I don't like the idea of having to wait for a replacement (fake rock) in the mail and I want the caches to maintain the same look always with minimal downtime. I guess I want them to be game ready always.

 My caches I treat as sorta fun lil character things in my head in a way so I like to maintain the workup and presentation. It's fun for me to give them life and a small story.

2 hides isnt much cost and I'm totally willing to put money into this hobby as like Warninjas was saying, other hobbies are way more expensive. 

The main thing was just me thinking of how much maintenance and costs could possibly go into the game when u have hundreds of caches to keep up with. I guess depending on your container choices, your container styles, your cache premium status,  the cache locations, and the cache types......then it could all vary in expense for individual owners.

Btw, good to know about the non unarchiving rules changes.

 

Edited by sasquatchlover
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Thanks for thinking about cache replacement upfront. 

I have 80+ active ammo can caches, and about 30 ammo cans at the house - these are replacements, I"m not planning new. 

In my area, ammo cans are lost regularly to fire (all state forests plan burns every 3 years) floods, rust, theft and hogs.  (I have a couple in bear territory, they can seriously rearrange an ammo can, but okay so far).

Reviewers have some latitude on unarchive, but the public facing rule is not if the cache was archived by reviewer. Help Center article

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5 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

In my area, ammo cans are lost regularly to fire (all state forests plan burns every 3 years) floods, rust, theft and hogs.  (I have a couple in bear territory, they can seriously rearrange an ammo can, but okay so far).

Pardon my noobïveté, but aren't there repellents for bears & boars (presume that's what you meant by "hogs")?

Or do they not work that way/on ammo cans?  (Don't know--not a hunter).

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57 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

Pardon my noobïveté, but aren't there repellents for bears & boars (presume that's what you meant by "hogs")?

Or do they not work that way/on ammo cans?  (Don't know--not a hunter).

If you're going to cover a cache container with some type of critter deterrent, you MUST put a big ol' HAZMAT symbol on it AND on the cache page as well.

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2 hours ago, RufusClupea said:

Pardon my noobïveté, but aren't there repellents for bears & boars (presume that's what you meant by "hogs")?

Or do they not work that way/on ammo cans?  (Don't know--not a hunter).

 

2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

If you're going to cover a cache container with some type of critter deterrent, you MUST put a big ol' HAZMAT symbol on it AND on the cache page as well.

 

I don't know about hazmat.  But I'd also think that most critter deterrents (cilantro, pepper spray) wouldn't be persistent (as in, they'd wash off, evaporate, or otherwise naturally degrade over time) and would require constant reapplication. 

 

I'm not aware of  any persistent chemicals that would deter bears -- but if any exist, that might cross into hazmat territory.

 

(I'm not a chemist or a wildlife expert, but as an Army lawyer, I am familiar with the concepts associated with use of persistent and nonpersistent chemical weapons.  So I've got that going for me, I guess.)

 

Might be better to think along the lines of not attracting bears, versus actively repelling them -- and that means no containers that once contained food.  Unless an ammo can was re-purposed as a food container before it was reused (re-reused?) as a geocache, I would think that the smell of brass, copper, and cordite would not tend to attract bears.  But I'm not super well versed in ursine psychology, so YMMV.

Edited by hzoi
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I'm not aware of any effective repellent for either pigs or bears - and a pig repellent would likely be a human repellent. 

Wasted some time hunting pics of an ammo can disassembled by a bear in the Ocala National Forest posted to old archived hide there.  I expect the bear was merely curious; it has the bite force to reshape the can. Owner replaced can once to the same outcome.

Florida is lousy with feral pigs; old Spanish stock mixed with more recent escapees. I've seen white banded, Hampshire types, and some spotted pinks. A bit of European wild boar in the mix too, those were deliberately released for hunting.  Ammo cans on ground they'll shove, open, bury, or move so far that you can't come up with them.

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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

Might be better to think along the lines of not attracting bears, versus actively repelling them -- and that means no containers that once contained food.  Unless an ammo can was re-purposed as a food container before it was reused (re-reused?) as a geocache, I would think that the smell of brass, copper, and cordite would not tend to attract bears.  But I'm not super well versed in ursine psychology, so YMMV.

Bears in New Jersey seem to enjoy chewing on plastic containers, even if they never contained food.  My ammo cans have been safe from them.  

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5 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

I'm not aware of any effective repellent for either pigs or bears - and a pig repellent would likely be a human repellent. 

Wasted some time hunting pics of an ammo can disassembled by a bear in the Ocala National Forest posted to old archived hide there.  I expect the bear was merely curious; it has the bite force to reshape the can. Owner replaced can once to the same outcome.

Florida is lousy with feral pigs; old Spanish stock mixed with more recent escapees. I've seen white banded, Hampshire types, and some spotted pinks. A bit of European wild boar in the mix too, those were deliberately released for hunting.  Ammo cans on ground they'll shove, open, bury, or move so far that you can't come up with them.

I hear Texas has a real wild pig problem, too. A bunch of friends of mine when I was in the military would always take hunting trips to go kill as many as they were allowed to kill. 

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2 hours ago, SeattleWayne said:

I hear Texas has a real wild pig problem, too. A bunch of friends of mine when I was in the military would always take hunting trips to go kill as many as they were allowed to kill. 

Yes, we do have an awful problem with wild hogs. Please tell your friends to come back so they can shoot them and make good use out of their meat. However (ha), no, I don't think more placed caches by a single owner equals more expense for that owner. But, I'm comparing those that have 2 time consuming, neat caches to build to those that have 1000 pill bottles. 

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On 8/8/2017 at 5:55 AM, Isonzo Karst said:

Thanks for thinking about cache replacement upfront. 

I have 80+ active ammo can caches, and about 30 ammo cans at the house - these are replacements, I"m not planning new. 

In my area, ammo cans are lost regularly to fire (all state forests plan burns every 3 years) floods, rust, theft and hogs.  (I have a couple in bear territory, they can seriously rearrange an ammo can, but okay so far).

Reviewers have some latitude on unarchive, but the public facing rule is not if the cache was archived by reviewer. Help Center article

Wow 80 cans and 30 ready for backup. That's nice. Pretty cool to have that many large caches.

Yeah I think about the experience of a cache related to it being functional.  It's there to be found. I think some of us are more obsessive over the experience quality than others.  Not in how cool the cache is, but more on how stable an environment for its ability to be accessed is. Backups that are ready to go minimize the downtime and that's why I won't put a cache out till I have a copy of it at home. 

 If I ever have a lot of caches of the same kind i won't have duplicates for all but I will have a good number of backups like you. My cache placement will only be based on what I can handle to maintain good quality game service.

Edited by sasquatchlover
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