Free Maps vs Paid - Pros and Cons

[+askthedogguy]

I'm new here and to geocaching. I have a Garmin GPS 64S with not quite no clue how to use it but I'm working on that. Hope to find someone local that also geochaches with a similar unit that won't mind a tag along but I digress. Regarding free maps vs paid what are the pros and cons? What is the best map for geo caching (topo?) My Garmin came with a free year of something called Birdseye which I mention as I don't know if that influences the sort of map I should get.

John

[+RufusClupea]

Hi John,

That makes 2 of us, in more ways than 6.

[+skramble]

1 hour ago, askthedogguy said:

I'm new here and to geocaching. I have a Garmin GPS 64S with not quite no clue how to use it but I'm working on that. Hope to find someone local that also geochaches with a similar unit that won't mind a tag along but I digress. Regarding free maps vs paid what are the pros and cons? What is the best map for geo caching (topo?) My Garmin came with a free year of something called Birdseye which I mention as I don't know if that influences the sort of map I should get.

John

As far as I'm concerned, the freely available Open Source Maps (OSM) are the Gold Standard for Garmin GPSs. The Birdseye won't do you much good for caching, it's only satellite imagery, whereas the OSM maps are for roads, trails and POIs. They are community supported, and continually updated.

To download maps, go to http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ where you can choose from "Generic Routable" (probably your best choice for starters), Generic Routable (new style) or Routable Bicycle (OpenfietsMap Lite). <aside...> Fiets is Dutch for Bikes, that why the name...

Then click the pulldown menu beside North America and select Ontario. Click "Download Map Now!". Click on the last item,  osm_generic_gmapsupp.zip, and choose where to save it.

After it's downloaded, open it, and save the file inside the archive (gmapsupp.img) to your Garmin's internal "Garmin" folder, or to its SD card's folder of the same name. If you have a file of the same name in the folder, copy it off somewhere else or rename it so it doesn't get overwritten. You can rename these IMG files anything you want so they coexist, and you can choose on the fly which get used (several at once even), the gmapsupp,img is just the default name.

There are many more options and ways to download the OSM files, but this is the most straightforward and will get you up with the minimum of effort, you can investigate the other options at your leisure.

As far as topo maps, your best bet there is probably the Ibycus topo map for Canada, again freely available. With a bit more effort, though... it's only downloadable through a torrent and requires a bit of fiddling to install through Basecamp and onto the Garmin. If nobody else has outlined that procedure by the time I get up tomorrow (it's late here now), I'll do a followup post then.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

[+Gill & Tony]

I have a etrex 30X for caching and a nuvi 2597LMT for in car use and my garmin-supplied maps are for Australia and new Zealand.

When I'm planning an overseas trip, I generate and download maps from OpenStreetMap (OSM)  found here .  I copy the downloaded maps to two microSD cards, pop one card in each device and the maps work well.

One word of warning:  The OSM maps, when used for road navigation, have a somewhat bizarre way of calculating which exit to take from a roundabout.  sometimes they count no entry roads as exits and the exit number bears no relation to reality.  Ignore something like "Take the 5th exit" and just go where the purple line wants you to go (Your colour may vary)

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Gill & Tony
Cross posted with Skramble.  What he said is the same as my post, but expressed better

[+Viajero Perdido]

Ibycus Topo is getting pretty old.

Are there no OSM-with-topo options for Garmin?  OSM is generally quite up to date, and rocks for trail detail.

[+Ringrat]

I use Ibycus Topo in my eTrex30, and for the US (I'm close to the border) I use topos I've downloaded from gpsfiledepot. I've gotten files from there for overseas travel as well. On my phone I run Locus Map Pro with OSM-based maps from openandromaps. Between the two I can usually figure out where I am. I've never used a routable map on my GPS and never on my phone for any caching-related purpose.

[+HHL]

2 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

[...] Are there no OSM-with-topo options for Garmin?  OSM is generally quite up to date, and rocks for trail detail.

Yes, there are such maps:
http://osm.thkukuk.de/
http://freizeitkarte-osm.de/garmin/en/index.html

Hans

Edited August 3, 2017 by HHL

[+skramble]

7 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Ibycus Topo is getting pretty old.

True, but topo contour lines don't change very frequently.   When you need them (probably more in rural than urban settings), turn on Ibycus, keeping your usual OSM product enabled for trails. We're spoiled here in BC, with a very nice Provincial topo (only - no trails) map at 20m spacing (thanks, Andrew), and a Vancouver Island legacy one at 10m with now outdated trail data (thanks, Rob), but the OP's Province (Ontario) isn't as well serviced.

[+skramble]

5 hours ago, HHL said:

Yes, there are such maps:
http://osm.thkukuk.de/
http://freizeitkarte-osm.de/garmin/en/index.html

Hans

Thanks, Hans.

Unfortunately, the freizeitkarte-osm map isn't available for Canada (the OP is in Ontario).

The OSM based map from thkukuk.de looks interesting, especially at 10m. I'm downloading it now to have a peek but their server is s.l.o.w...

[+HHL]

27 minutes ago, skramble said:

Thanks, Hans.

Unfortunately, the freizeitkarte-osm map isn't available for Canada (the OP is in Ontario).

[...]

It is. I have one of them (CAN_BC) installed on my PC. They just do not list them every month. There are also topo maps for the U.S. and Australia.
You should check the site from time to time. Or asked the makers of Freizeitkarte if they could provide you with an alternative link.
Unfortunately the OSM databases are not very well maintained in Canada and the USA.

Hans

Edited August 3, 2017 by HHL

[+skramble]

6 minutes ago, HHL said:

It is. I have one of them (CAN_BC) installed on my PC.

Well, perhaps I need a word with my ophthalmologist, but I'm unable to find any reference to Canada anywhere on their site, even in Archives.   If you happen to have a link, that would be truly appreciated.

[+skramble]

56 minutes ago, skramble said:

Thanks, Hans.

Unfortunately, the freizeitkarte-osm map isn't available for Canada (the OP is in Ontario).

The OSM based map from thkukuk.de looks interesting, especially at 10m. I'm downloading it now to have a peek but their server is s.l.o.w...

Just had a look at the thkukuk.de map. It's less than a quarter of the size of Ibycus, but unfortunately the resolution is correspondingly poorer.

[+hzoi]

8 hours ago, skramble said:

Just had a look at the thkukuk.de map. It's less than a quarter of the size of Ibycus, but unfortunately the resolution is correspondingly poorer.

Wow.  It's almost not worth the $0 you paid for it. 

[+askthedogguy]

Thanks for all the tips.

I'm in the midst of downloading the IbycusTopo4 via Torrent. I think I found a Mac version. Hope so anyway. Every other file I could find was Windows. Pretty slow download. Says it will take a day so I won't be able to fiddle with it for a while. I'm also downloading OSM generic routable(CA-ON_04-08-2017).gmap (Ontario). On the thkukuk.de site I did find something for Canada - TK-Canada-SRTM.7z which I'll try to figure out how to use as well.

Is the reason that no one suggested buying a map because they aren't superior, not worth the money or other?

John

[+askthedogguy]

On 8/3/2017 at 0:42 AM, skramble said:

After it's downloaded, open it, and save the file inside the archive (gmapsupp.img) to your Garmin's internal "Garmin" folder, or to its SD card's folder of the same name. If you have a file of the same name in the folder, copy it off somewhere else or rename it so it doesn't get overwritten. You can rename these IMG files anything you want so they coexist, and you can choose on the fly which get used (several at once even), the gmapsupp,img is just the default name.

 

I'm attaching a screen shot of the file structure inside my GPS as I think I must have played with the GPS when I bought it last year but didn't get very far. It looks like I may have a few maps in there but perhaps not in the correct place.

The other screen shot is a partial view of the contents of the  OSM generic routable(CA-ON_04-08-2017).gmap map file I downloaded. Not sure yet what goes where. Rather than doing a drag and drop directly into my GPS handheld, can maps not be installed using BaseCamp or I see there are a couple of apps called - MapInstall and MapManager. Is that what they do. I'm downloading them now.

John

[+skramble]

4 minutes ago, askthedogguy said:

I'm attaching a screen shot of the file structure inside my GPS as I think I must have played with the GPS when I bought it last year but didn't get very far. It looks like I may have a few maps in there but perhaps not in the correct place.

The other screen shot is a partial view of the contents of the  OSM generic routable(CA-ON_04-08-2017).gmap map file I downloaded. Not sure yet what goes where. Rather than doing a drag and drop directly into my GPS handheld, can maps not be installed using BaseCamp or I see there are a couple of apps called - MapInstall and MapManager. Is that what they do. I'm downloading them now.

You have several maps in there already, with the IMG extension. If you're downloading newer versions of the same map, remember to delete the old one, you don't want two maps of the same internal name. You can rename them to whatever you want, but their real name is hardcoded in.

Sorry, I don't know about that .gmap version of the OSM map you downloaded... I outlined the procedure to get them straight from the OSM source earlier, it's easy to identify the file you want, as it's the only one in the archive (.zip).  

In addition, when you download via that OSM link, you have the option of downloading an installable version for Mac if that is your preference. 

 

 

[+askthedogguy]

1 hour ago, skramble said:

I outlined the procedure to get them straight from the OSM source earlier, it's easy to identify the file you want, as it's the only one in the archive (.zip)

I'm not clear as to where on the handheld's file structure they should be dragged or even which file should be dragged. I've been working on this for a few hours and I find the BaseCamp design when it comes to installing and using maps rather less than user-friendly and I'd go as far as saying to be outright confusing. For instance, while I did successfully install a map to the handheld it appeared nowhere on BaseCamp leading me to believe I erred. Eventually, I shut it down and restarted and it appeared. When I switch from viewing using the downloaded map to the built in the BaseCamp crashes. Discrepancies and assumptions as to the definition of terms like sync and transfer, changes made on one folder not being reflected in master folders etc.

I've learned some very complex software programs on my lonesome and I've never run into something that was less intuitive from a starting point. I currently have 19 questions listed for Garmin support tomorrow morning. I think I'll be fine once past the map loading and selection issues are resolved as the rest seems straightforward enough but if I had to guess their software is designed by engineers for engineers without incorporating end user testing.

John

[+skramble]

1 hour ago, askthedogguy said:

I'm not clear as to where on the handheld's file structure they should be dragged or even which file should be dragged. I've been working on this for a few hours and I find the BaseCamp design when it comes to installing and using maps rather less than user-friendly and I'd go as far as saying to be outright confusing. For instance, while I did successfully install a map to the handheld it appeared nowhere on BaseCamp leading me to believe I erred. Eventually, I shut it down and restarted and it appeared. When I switch from viewing using the downloaded map to the built in the BaseCamp crashes. Discrepancies and assumptions as to the definition of terms like sync and transfer, changes made on one folder not being reflected in master folders etc.

I've learned some very complex software programs on my lonesome and I've never run into something that was less intuitive from a starting point. I currently have 19 questions listed for Garmin support tomorrow morning. I think I'll be fine once past the map loading and selection issues are resolved as the rest seems straightforward enough but if I had to guess their software is designed by engineers for engineers without incorporating end user testing.

John

If you get the OSM files from the OSM source, and not from the thkukuk.de source:

Regardless of which OSM map you're getting, the name of the file in the archive (if you're getting the xxx_gmapsupp.zip file) is gmapsupp.img. Take that file and copy it into your handheld's GARMIN folder. Once it's there, you can rename it whatever you like. No Basecamp or anything else involved.

If you prefer to go through Basecamp, get and install the xxx_macosx.zip file. Once installed, restart Basecamp if it was running, and connect your GPS, then use Maps -> Install Maps to install it or others onto the GPS.

It might be best to nuke all your existing maps (delete all *.img files) and start fresh so there's no conflict with versioning, and you can build from a known base. For e.g., if you have two different fiets maps with different names in the same folder, they still have the same internal names, and unless you want to get into hex editing their identifiers, results will be unpredictable.