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4 minutes ago, kunarion said:

I pay a cache finding service to go find and log my caches. All my logs were made by them. I never leave the recliner! It saves on gas, wear & tear, there are no ticks or mosquitoes to deal with. They even type my Forum posts for me. Kunarion is the best!

:blink: 

:lol:

 

One reputation point for the LoL's. 

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26 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

A relative who uses a wheelchair to cache goes on Handicaching time-to-time, and notes that with friends they've met, they haven't even seen this subject come up.

 - Maybe another group...

They know that if they'd like, I'd place/maintain for them.  I'd bet other families would do similar.

 But yeah, probably rare.

That doesn't surprise me.  (I just discovered Handicaching this morning while I was posting my previous.)

I appreciate there are kind folks like yourself who'd do something like that, but I think it'd be even rarer for someone to ask, or even take you up on the offer.  (Self-esteem & all.)  But someone who, like I said, had the resources to hire it done, yeah, sure.

But yeah, rare.  So rare, I don't think there's a business there.

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4 hours ago, RufusClupea said:

???  :huh:  Isn't that what we're talking about?

:huh::huh::huh:  ?  Could you please clarify; that appears self-contradictory with the previous statement.

I believe that, but that doesn't necessarily mean such a need doesn't exist, nor a desire.  I think the issue might be volume--is there enough of a need/desire within a geographical area/range to make such a venture feasible.

Spoze... (I'm big on "spozin'" :rolleyes:)  there were a person/persons who desired to concoct various types of caches--standard, mystery , gadget/puzzle caches, multi-s, etc.--but was/were unable to maintain (or possibly even place) them as they would care to, yet had the resources to pay someone else to perform those tasks for them?  Granted, even with several million geocachers worldwide, I'd be surprised (delighted, but surprised) if there were enough people who fall into that category (especially the last part) within a geographical area to support/warrant such an endeavor.

I am not sure what is unclear. The service that is proposed in this thread seems to be aimed at other geocachers. The services that I have seen, that failed, placed caches on behalf of small businesses, not other geocachers. Perhaps that is a small distinction to you, but I felt it was worth noting.

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29 minutes ago, narcissa said:

I am not sure what is unclear. The service that is proposed in this thread seems to be aimed at other geocachers. The services that I have seen, that failed, placed caches on behalf of small businesses, not other geocachers. Perhaps that is a small distinction to you, but I felt it was worth noting.

That's what was unclear to me.

Yes, without the commercial aspect, I think it's a small distinction.

 

Anyone help me out here; I'm too new to know... DO any of the satellite businesses that have grown up around this hobby (the ones that sell GC gear, supplies, coins, apps, etc.) have/own or sponsor any caches/hides?  As long as they don't violate Listing Guideline #4, would you even know?

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29 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

Anyone help me out here; I'm too new to know... DO any of the satellite businesses that have grown up around this hobby (the ones that sell GC gear, supplies, coins, apps, etc.) have/own or sponsor any caches/hides?  As long as they don't violate Listing Guideline #4, would you even know?

I suspect that Groundspeak has made the line clear to licensees that any business-connected geocaches would need to be part of an official promotion scheme.

 

Monkeybrad has an official promotion going on right now with his Captain Rodney BBQ sauce business, hosting events around the country and giving away free TBs.  This is under his personal caching account but is coordinated with Groundspeak.

 

I was a little surprised to see that the Space Coast Geocaching Store doesn't have a cache.  I can't remember the team name for the cachers who run it, but I'm sure they have caches hidden under their personal accounts.

 

In Germany, DRunners has many geocaches set out for his personal caching account, none of which are connected to his business, geocoinshop.de.  However, geocoinshop.de has one active hide under its own name, a geocoin vending machine that's placed at the business location.

 

Just a few examples off the top of my head.

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3 hours ago, hzoi said:

I was a little surprised to see that the Space Coast Geocaching Store doesn't have a cache.  I can't remember the team name for the cachers who run it, but I'm sure they have caches hidden under their personal accounts.

When I visited a few years ago (I think they've moved) there was a extra large, jumbo ammo box out front listed on GC.com.

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I don't see this service as a serious moneymaker for anyone. Based on the comments here, I don't see many of the forum regulars using such a service. That being said, I could see this kind of a service useful in a few specific cases.

The first case is where a business will already be in the area for another reason, and can add cache maintenance to their list of services. Driving back and forth through Hell's Canyon I saw lots of rafting businesses. They might be willing to maintain a cache that was along the river, for a fee. But, it's not their main business.

The other case deals with a more touchy subject. We all know that some of the "great old caches" are now community maintained, because the CO is no longer active. I don't want to debate the merits of community maintained caches, I just want point out that I could see a local geocaching related company or organization pay someone to maintain such a cache.

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4 hours ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

 

The other case deals with a more touchy subject. We all know that some of the "great old caches" are now community maintained, because the CO is no longer active. I don't want to debate the merits of community maintained caches, I just want point out that I could see a local geocaching related company or organization pay someone to maintain such a cache.

In 17 years, has this ever happened?  Anyway, how would someone who didn't place the cache remove the red wrench?  The cache owner gives the company worker their info? Nope.

I'm not saying your reply was dumb (please believe that) I just think that the whole idea of this paying someone to fix your cache is dumb.... To the point that I believe the OP was joking.

 

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My question is still what does everyone think the cost would be to make it profitable for the person doing it?  Figuring that they say min wage will soon be $15 a hour.  You couldn't just do a 10 mile radius around your house and expect many customers so it would have to be a wide area.  The time it would take to get the request, Get the container together, even a basic container might take some thought at times to get.  Then drive there and possibility hike a bit or climb a tree or kayak.  Take pictures of it as others have mentioned.  Send them over.  Figure out how to get the payment. 

  Then I would also factor in that maybe 1 out of every 10 jobs done there might be a unhappy customer because the cache had the same original problem and went missing before someone found it and you might have to give there money back.

 My guess would be around 2 hours per cache serviced.  Plus container and gas and all.  I think that would put the average cacher out of wanting to use  the service. Not that I think this would work for many other reasons. If someone wanted to just do it for fun but I can't see it being done for profit.

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The one situation where it might possibly work is power trails (he says, washing his mouth out with soap). Hundreds of caches, all the same, spaced every 161 metres along a single stretch of road. Maybe a hundred bucks plus the cost of containers and logs, a regular contract even to keep it in tip-top condition for all those numbers hounds. Could be a nice little earner for someone, maybe even a kid on a pushbike could do it for pocket money B).

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7 hours ago, Mama514 said:

In 17 years, has this ever happened?  Anyway, how would someone who didn't place the cache remove the red wrench?  The cache owner gives the company worker their info? Nope.

I'm not saying your reply was dumb (please believe that) I just think that the whole idea of this paying someone to fix your cache is dumb.... To the point that I believe the OP was joking.

 

The cache owner would go in and enter the "Owner Maintenance" after the company had serviced the cache. 

7 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

My question is still what does everyone think the cost would be to make it profitable for the person doing it?  Figuring that they say min wage will soon be $15 a hour.  You couldn't just do a 10 mile radius around your house and expect many customers so it would have to be a wide area.  The time it would take to get the request, Get the container together, even a basic container might take some thought at times to get.  Then drive there and possibility hike a bit or climb a tree or kayak.  Take pictures of it as others have mentioned.  Send them over.  Figure out how to get the payment. 

  Then I would also factor in that maybe 1 out of every 10 jobs done there might be a unhappy customer because the cache had the same original problem and went missing before someone found it and you might have to give there money back.

 My guess would be around 2 hours per cache serviced.  Plus container and gas and all.  I think that would put the average cacher out of wanting to use  the service. Not that I think this would work for many other reasons. If someone wanted to just do it for fun but I can't see it being done for profit.

Minimum wage wouldn't matter, unless this thing got so successful that the Cache Maintenance Service had to hire additional employees. I picture the company offering two levels of service:

Basic Service: Generic Containers, little hiking/biking/kayaking/bushwhacking involved. T3 and below. Quick and easy and low impact. (Think power trails/geo-art/etc)

Extreme Service: Custom and/or specific styled containers. T3.5+, Greater time commitment. 

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14 minutes ago, mvhayes1982 said:

Basic Service: Generic Containers, little hiking/biking/kayaking/bushwhacking involved. T3 and below. Quick and easy and low impact. (Think power trails/geo-art/etc)

Extreme Service: Custom and/or specific styled containers. T3.5+, Greater time commitment. 

 

I was thinking that power trails, and other very inexpensive container setups would be especially expensive to maintain. For example, a way-cool ziplock bag with leaves glued to it, is easy to hide in an evil way, but requires replacement on an almost daily basis. That is, if the idea is that a cache is to be kept in excellent shape, always to be in the fine condition it was when placed, it requires maintenance. The maintenance team will work many hours a month, finding and cleaning up throwdowns and resetting the caches along a power trail. I could hide a fantastic evil Nano, but the time and cost for me to maintain that (or to pay people to maintain that) is prohibitive.

I'd bet that the company will be hired only for the long hikes to great containers. And even then, only when a log mentions a serious problem.

Or, they may be on call by a State Park, for the amazing “Geo Trail” that was set up. You know, for those cool, huge gadget caches that broke months ago. The door was pried open so many times, by the time you go, you don't have to work the puzzle. It opens right up. The company could rebuild those on a schedule, funded by the park service.

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2 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

 

Or, they may be on call by a State Park, for the amazing “Geo Trail” that was set up. You know, for those cool, huge gadget caches that broke months ago. The door was pried open so many times, by the time you go, you don't have to work the puzzle. It opens right up. The company could rebuild those on a schedule, funded by the park service.

Its would be many, many months if not almost a year to get something like that approved (if at all) to be paid for by State parks (and one would probably be told 'no' a lot). Generally speaking, because that's how slow local government operates. At least in Washington State.  

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1 minute ago, SeattleWayne said:

Its would be many, many months if not almost a year to get something like that approved (if at all) to be paid for by State parks (and one would probably be told 'no' a lot). Generally speaking, because that's how slow local government operates. At least in Washington State.  

 

Yeah, the caches in my example are not especially maintained.  The rangers give hints, or even know the leetle trick to get the metal ball unstuck or whatever.  But the CO remains as the maintenance service.  In the case of most parks or land managers who decide that regular maintenance is important, I'd expect they'd repair it directly, not hire out.  Their own staff can handle repairs of stuff.

One thing about the idea of a "Maintenance Service" is, what you actually need is to get the cache fixed before it's a serious problem.  Such as, the seal has failed, but everything is not yet ruined.  Most attentive cache owners fix that before it's what you call "maintenance issue" and even before any logs about a problem.  Whether or not people would pay a "Maintenance Service" to fix such a minor issue, I can't tell. "They charge a fortune, but all they ever do is fix a little seal or something".

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3 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

Yeah, the caches in my example are not especially maintained.  The rangers give hints, or even know the leetle trick to get the metal ball unstuck or whatever.  But the CO remains as the maintenance service.  In the case of most parks or land managers who decide that regular maintenance is important, I'd expect they'd repair it directly, not hire out.  Their own staff can handle repairs of stuff.

One thing about the idea of a "Maintenance Service" is, what you actually need is to get the cache fixed before it's a serious problem.  Such as, the seal has failed, but everything is not yet ruined.  Most attentive cache owners fix that before it's what you call "maintenance issue" and even before any logs about a problem.  Whether or not people would pay a "Maintenance Service" to fix such a minor issue, I can't tell. "They charge a fortune, but all they ever do is fix a little seal or something".

That reminds me. I need to pull one of my caches, and give it some TLC. It's been out for a year and I've never checked on it even though no one has reported any problems. ^_^

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2 minutes ago, SeattleWayne said:

That reminds me. I need to pull one of my caches, and give it some TLC. It's been out for a year and I've never checked on it even though no one has reported any problems. ^_^

It can happen. Here's my most recent maintenance issue on an ammo box.  Two finders ago, no maintenance log.  Last finder says "It's wet".  Ya think?!  :wacko:

 

 

9b0c13e7-1523-4f85-b6c4-5cf174c26772.jpg

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17 minutes ago, SeattleWayne said:

Lol! That's awesome :)

Yeah.  I think I can fix him.  A hinge pin broke away.  I wonder if an armadillo is strong enough to do that.  A big one?

The bear is great ("Grizzly Adam"), but my favorite is Boxzilla.  That bad boy is a 3-foot long robot dinosaur attached to an ammo box.  And it's tough to get there.  Well, as tough as I'm willing for it to be and still do maintenance. :tongue:

Edited by kunarion
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11 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

My question is still what does everyone think the cost would be to make it profitable for the person doing it?  Figuring that they say min wage will soon be $15 a hour.  You couldn't just do a 10 mile radius around your house and expect many customers so it would have to be a wide area.  The time it would take to get the request, Get the container together, even a basic container might take some thought at times to get.  Then drive there and possibility hike a bit or climb a tree or kayak.  Take pictures of it as others have mentioned.  Send them over.  Figure out how to get the payment. 

  Then I would also factor in that maybe 1 out of every 10 jobs done there might be a unhappy customer because the cache had the same original problem and went missing before someone found it and you might have to give there money back.

 My guess would be around 2 hours per cache serviced.  Plus container and gas and all.  I think that would put the average cacher out of wanting to use  the service. Not that I think this would work for many other reasons. If someone wanted to just do it for fun but I can't see it being done for profit.

I think the only remotely feasible option would be an annual or seasonal subscription, with the hope of building a client base that would make it worthwhile. It would make the most sense to have a schedule of days devoted to maintenance runs, say three days a month to start. Guarantee something like four visits a year for routine check and maintenance, and then put all of your client caches on your watch list and add them to the schedule when things come. You would need to also guarantee that NM logs and other issues get dealt with in a specific time frame.

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1 hour ago, mvhayes1982 said:

OP hasn't posted in this thread since its inception -- Yet we've all done a fantastic job of rough drafting their business plan for them, identifying the obstacles, designing package services, identifying the variables that might create price points. 

Well done, folks. Well done. 

If s/he's still willing to proceed after all this, I wish him/her the best of luck... S/he'll need it. :P

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11 hours ago, narcissa said:

I think the only remotely feasible option would be an annual or seasonal subscription, with the hope of building a client base that would make it worthwhile. It would make the most sense to have a schedule of days devoted to maintenance runs, say three days a month to start. Guarantee something like four visits a year for routine check and maintenance, and then put all of your client caches on your watch list and add them to the schedule when things come. You would need to also guarantee that NM logs and other issues get dealt with in a specific time frame.

Yea that would be a good way to set it up so you were already out doing it and not just for one cache at a time.   But if someone never plans on checking on it then they shouldn't probibly hide it.  I was thinking more of a I don't feel like hiking to that cache this month,  Maybe I should just pay someone to do it this time.  Not that I would ever use this service but if I was to use it then it wouldn't be for regular maintenance just a occasional I don't feel like going there right now but still want it fixed up.

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On 8/1/2017 at 10:03 AM, SeattleWayne said:

If you cache falls apart while you're on holiday just write a note saying you're on vacation, and you'll tend to your cache once you're home. If you're gone for longer then a month, just update your cache log with another note saying you're on vacation so people know what's going on. Pretty easy. No need to pay someone for anything in this game. 

That's what I've done, but instead of just a note I'll also disable the cache if I believe there's a good chance that it's missing.  

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10 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

Yea that would be a good way to set it up so you were already out doing it and not just for one cache at a time.   But if someone never plans on checking on it then they shouldn't probibly hide it.  I was thinking more of a I don't feel like hiking to that cache this month,  Maybe I should just pay someone to do it this time.  Not that I would ever use this service but if I was to use it then it wouldn't be for regular maintenance just a occasional I don't feel like going there right now but still want it fixed up.

Philosophically, I agree that geocachers really ought to maintain their own caches, but that's not really relevant to the topic.

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On 8/2/2017 at 10:25 AM, RufusClupea said:

That's what was unclear to me.

Yes, without the commercial aspect, I think it's a small distinction.

 

Anyone help me out here; I'm too new to know... DO any of the satellite businesses that have grown up around this hobby (the ones that sell GC gear, supplies, coins, apps, etc.) have/own or sponsor any caches/hides?  As long as they don't violate Listing Guideline #4, would you even know?

Drives, who owns Drives Cache Closet, has hundreds of caches in play. None violate the listing guideline regarding advertising.

I wonder if I told you that I thought he has great products and service if it would be a violation of the guidelines?

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5 hours ago, K13 said:

Drives, who owns Drives Cache Closet, has hundreds of caches in play. None violate the listing guideline regarding advertising.

I wonder if I told you that I thought he has great products and service if it would be a violation of the guidelines?

I've only purchased Geocache related items online one time. Happened to be from them, and I was so surprised/impressed with everything! Why would you wonder if your OPINION would be a guideline violation as long as it's just that?  

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20 hours ago, K13 said:

Drives, who owns Drives Cache Closet, has hundreds of caches in play. None violate the listing guideline regarding advertising.

I wonder if I told you that I thought he has great products and service if it would be a violation of the guidelines?

I spoze that would depend on your relationship (e.g. employee, relative, friend...)

Most forum sites I've been on have similar rules; IME, a customer with no affiliation (or incentive) is generally acceptable, but that's really up to the folks here.  My experience & opinions are irrelevant.

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On 8/5/2017 at 2:35 PM, RufusClupea said:

I spoze that would depend on your relationship (e.g. employee, relative, friend...)

Most forum sites I've been on have similar rules; IME, a customer with no affiliation (or incentive) is generally acceptable, but that's really up to the folks here.  My experience & opinions are irrelevant.

I used to participate in a usenet forum about flyfishing.  There were a few regulars that had a business related to flyfishing (guides, shop owners) and they would regularly contribute to discussions and offer useful advise and expertise.  The regular forum members never object to their contributions because they weren't actively trying to sell something.  Occasionally someone else would come into the group and advertise their business.  The difference was that the former were actively engaged in discussions and were freely providing useful information while the latter group only saw the group as potential customers and only posted in an attempt to solicit business and make a profit.

Sometimes a customer with no apparent affiliation is just a shill or might even use a sock puppet to endorse their own business.

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On 04/08/2017 at 5:51 PM, K13 said:

Drives, who owns Drives Cache Closet, has hundreds of caches in play. None violate the listing guideline regarding advertising.

I wonder if I told you that I thought he has great products and service if it would be a violation of the guidelines?

Yes, if you used a cache page to to do that, it probably would be.

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On 7/30/2017 at 5:40 PM, CAVinoGal said:
On 7/30/2017 at 8:21 AM, dprovan said:

One of the things that strikes me as odd about the idea is that there's not really any difference between paying someone to maintain a cache and paying to have someone else plant the cache to begin with. That's what makes me think it would actually work as a business.

Am I the only one that thinks the whole concept of paying someone to geocache for you is just ... nuts?  It's a hobby, a choice.  If you don't want to DO it, then don't.  

(First of all, oops, I meant to say I did not think it would actually work as a business.)

I have a hard time imagining it, but I don't think it's nuts. The point is that they do want to plant caches, they're just happy to pay someone else to maintain them. Someone else mentioned the problem that the cache description and log itself wouldn't be easy for the paid maintainer to maintain, but I think that's consistent with the person I'm imagining: they want to be involve with the on-line part of the cache, and the physical container is just a means to the on-line end.

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