Do You Set Your Caches Premium Member Only?

[+EliteJonathan81]

Unlike my previous threads, this one is a discussion thread without an agenda or idea.

 

I'm personally in 2 minds. While I personally prefer keeping caches (at least the ones on my old account, I have one unpublished hide for my new account) for everyone, I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only.

Edited July 8, 2017 by EliteJonathan81

[+Mudfrog]

I made one of our caches premium a while back. Can't remember why exactly, maybe to try out the "see who looked at the cache" feature i suppose. I didn't leave it premium very long. With the influx of new people caching haphazardly, i thought about making ours premium. However, i realize that most of our caches aren't even seen by new players because of their higher than 1.5 difficulty ratings.

 

Never had too much of a vandalism or theft problem but if we ever did, i'd certainly consider it.

[+Manville Possum]

Mine were PMO for the last few years and I just changed them back to basic a few days ago and have already noticed they are being found more often. I did leave a few PMO that I want to have less visits due to cache impact of the area.

[+EliteJonathan81]

Mine were PMO for the last few years and I just changed them back to basic a few days ago and have already noticed they are being found more often. I did leave a few PMO that I want to have less visits due to cache impact of the area.

 

That's a good point, even without vandalism, you don't want too many visits to avoid damaging the area. I've personally not seen any vandalism / theft for caches in my area (and where I used to live 7 years ago on my old account when I was previously into the game), but apparently it does happen.

Edited July 8, 2017 by EliteJonathan81

[+cerberus1]

... With the influx of new people caching haphazardly, i thought about making ours premium. However, i realize that most of our caches aren't even seen by new players because of their higher than 1.5 difficulty ratings.

I sorta agree. We haven't made any cache pmo.

 

When we had lower D/T hides, we had issues with new muggles with apps.

Once we archived those easy hides, having the D/T a bit higher on others proved to keep the "one weekend n done" hiders away.

We still have one low D/T hide.

- At that time the D/T for allowed caches was higher in the free (Intro) app (D2/T3).

 

Now that the audit for pmo caches can be bypassed a few ways, it only keeps away basic members, while punishing the long-time basic members (some since before we started) who haven't gone pm due to various personal reasons.

We've noticed that many new members are starting off as pmo, which we didn't see before.

Those new people now have access to those pmos, while still kinda learning the hobby.

- Many issues we see in this area are new premium member app users now, still not fully understanding the "game".

[+cerberus1]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

Thanks.

[+Mausebiber]

I did leave a few PMO that I want to have less visits due to cache impact of the area.

 

How about archiving those cache to save the area from being visited? If your cache impacting the area you realy should move them to a less sensitive area.

Geocaching, in my opinion, is a game that should be available for everyone interested, not only for the paying members.

 

Regards,

MB

[+dprovan]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

Thanks.

I can't even say whether EliteJonathan81 believes that, and I wouldn't know why the people he's imagining believe that, but it seems obvious that the thinking would be that someone that's invested $30 in the hobby will be more likely to appreciate the value of each cache and less likely to seek out caches for no reason other than to destroy them. I've never encountered cache vandalism, so I couldn't say whether making a cache PMO is actually effective at discouraging vandalism.

 

I marked one cache PMO, and that was because I used dollar bills as ersatz camo, so I figured people who were only trying out geocaching for the day would be more likely to think it made sense to disassemble the cache to collect the money. I have a second cache that isn't PMO a little ways away on the same path, and I haven't noticed any significant difference between how often the two are visited.

[+The Jester]

I did leave a few PMO that I want to have less visits due to cache impact of the area.

 

How about archiving those cache to save the area from being visited? If your cache impacting the area you realy should move them to a less sensitive area.

Geocaching, in my opinion, is a game that should be available for everyone interested, not only for the paying members.

 

Regards,

MB

Won't work. Archiving the caches opens the area to placing a non-PMO cache, which means more visits.

 

And how is a very few (compared to the total number) PMO caches making the game unavailable to everyone interested? SCUBA caches, high terrain caches, and boating caches all limit the people who can visit. Why is it different than limiting to those willing to pay to support the game?

[+dprovan]

How about archiving those cache to save the area from being visited? If your cache impacting the area you realy should move them to a less sensitive area.

I can't speak for who you quoted, but the idea is that there are places that can be approached sensitively, but the people that are trying geocaching for the first time because they noticed the app won't understand that it's their responsibility to approach the area sensitively. I don't know to what degree that agrees with reality, but I can understand the logic of supposing it would be statistically more likely that premium members would be more aware of the negative impacts of geocaching.

 

Geocaching, in my opinion, is a game that should be available for everyone interested, not only for the paying members.

I, on the other hand, see no ethical, logical, or practical problem with having two classes of geocachers. In particular, it makes perfect sense to me for GS to charge for geocaching, and I think it's very nice of them to offer a lesser service to those who don't want to pay.

[+EliteJonathan81]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

Thanks.

I can't even say whether EliteJonathan81 believes that, and I wouldn't know why the people he's imagining believe that, but it seems obvious that the thinking would be that someone that's invested $30 in the hobby will be more likely to appreciate the value of each cache and less likely to seek out caches for no reason other than to destroy them. I've never encountered cache vandalism, so I couldn't say whether making a cache PMO is actually effective at discouraging vandalism.

 

I marked one cache PMO, and that was because I used dollar bills as ersatz camo, so I figured people who were only trying out geocaching for the day would be more likely to think it made sense to disassemble the cache to collect the money. I have a second cache that isn't PMO a little ways away on the same path, and I haven't noticed any significant difference between how often the two are visited.

 

No I don't strictly believe that, but nor do I strictly believe the contrary either. I'm neutral on this one (hence why I left this as a debate), I was just simply thinking it as a potential reason, and yes you've explained the logic, even though a weak argument. That said, this was more of an "if" someone was known for it in an area, though pmo might do little at stopping it in that case. In truth I think the far greater risk to caches is muggles, weather and animals, which pmo has absolutely nothing to do with. I made this thread to hear people's opinions, rather than try to convince anyone anything.

 

The better reason as mentioned above is simply wanting less visits to the cache, which makes sense. Though maybe the difference in visits is less than one might imagine.

[+lee737]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

 

It won't stop muggles, but will stop/reduce vandals with apps. We have had two 'visits' from someone logging 'finds' as 'cache-smasher', and posting pictures of the destroyed containers during his rampages, logs full of obscenities and all. I make all our easily found caches PMO for this reason. Ones off in the bush, not so much. Most of our finders are PMO members in any case.

[+Harry Dolphin]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

Thanks.

 

I guess I just got tired of muggles with apps. No guarantee that my low D/T caches are any safer. But I'm getting fewer "cache found out in the open" logs. What set me off was a first finder who put NA on a cache: "It's only a magnetic keyholder with a piece of paper in it".

[+Manville Possum]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

Thanks.

 

It did work for my listings. A few got vandalized shortly after the Intro App was launched. After making them PMO I never had any more problems.

 

Now, I'm seeing fewer new members and most of them are Premium Members from the start, which I credit to the new limited app.

[+EliteJonathan81]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

Thanks.

 

I guess I just got tired of muggles with apps. No guarantee that my low D/T caches are any safer. But I'm getting fewer "cache found out in the open" logs. What set me off was a first finder who put NA on a cache: "It's only a magnetic keyholder with a piece of paper in it".

 

Oh my god. You can expect newbies to make mistakes and not read guidelines, but I don't get how in someone's mind that this could be an NA regardless of whether the guidelines were read or not.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Somewhat randomly I own some PMO caches. When they're new I'll look at the audit log, after the first few weeks, I rarely do. Not sure why really.

 

For a time there was a basic member finding my state forest stuff, noticing that, I removed the PM status.

 

I own ONE where I set it to PMO after having to make multiple trips to close the ammo can. That did help. Sharp uptick in finds on it when the state park put in an official GeoTour cache on the same trail.

 

Re PMO and cache maggots, I mean those who deliberately damage, take, defecate in caches, yes, PMO does help. They rarely pay to play. It's SOP when a cache maggot arises, make everything PMO for a while. They get bored and move on to drowning kittens. In reviewer mode, I distribute 1 month free Premium memberships to those who aren't premium, so they can change their caches to PMO. I explain that to remove the PMO, if they don't pay after a month, they'll have to email and ask me to do it. A month is generally long enough.

 

Random damage from novices, I don't know how much it matters.

 

Years ago, I ran stats on Florida caches, and did find a statistically significant difference in cache life on PMO v Basic. This was pre-app caching. I no longer maintain a huge GSAK database of Florida caches so can't do that now.

[+colleda]

... I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only. Especially if there is cache vandalism in the area.

Please explain how you believe making a cache pmo keeps it from being vandalized.

 

It won't stop muggles, but will stop/reduce vandals with apps. We have had two 'visits' from someone logging 'finds' as 'cache-smasher', and posting pictures of the destroyed containers during his rampages, logs full of obscenities and all. I make all our easily found caches PMO for this reason. Ones off in the bush, not so much. Most of our finders are PMO members in any case.

There is a series of caches that were attacked by the above cache smasher. I have a PMO series that continues on from that non PMO series . My caches escaped any damage but the poor CO of the other series had a lot of work to do getting them back on line (a consciencious CO he is).

On the other hand. After I checked a couple of ours yesterday, due to DNFs (no health check prompting here) I have found two (consecutive) PMO caches have gone missing. For one of them its the third time, and the other its second time, even after changing coordinates to a different hide. So PMOs are not totally immune.

[+CAVinoGal]

The better reason as mentioned above is simply wanting less visits to the cache, which makes sense. Though maybe the difference in visits is less than one might imagine.

 

I am new to geocaching myself, though I watched my son grow in the hobby for years. I have hidden two caches, with a few more in the planning and almost implemented stages, part of a local series. They are PMO. And it's not so much wanting "less visits to the cache" as it is wanting quality vistis to the cache(s) that I place.

 

I put some effort into each one, the series is themed, the hides are themed, and I want those who are seeking to enjoy the area, the local flavor, and have fun with the hide as well. Feedback on my two hides so far has been quite positive and I hope the next two or three are just as well received. I won't get that from basic only members expecting a pill bottle in a bush who log a TFTC.

 

My first three months I was basic only; hubby had the premium account and I used other apps when I was with him to see and log the PMO caches. Too often though, I was out on my own and it was frustrating not to be able to see all the caches available. Many in this area keep their caches as PMO due to vandals - it does happen. When I started hiding and planning the series I am working on, I made it PMO. I'm not about the numbers, I want folks to see and appreciate the valley and it's offerings, and caching is one means of sharing it. Making the series PMO keeps it available to those who are more likely to really appreciate it.

 

Just my 2 cents worth...

[+cerberus1]

I have hidden two caches, with a few more in the planning and almost implemented stages, part of a local series. They are PMO. And it's not so much wanting "less visits to the cache" as it is wanting quality vistis to the cache(s) that I place.

This thinking is unusual (to me)...

You're saying that by simply coughing up money adds "quality" to finders, and somehow makes one more trustworthy ?

- Wait until you get to see a long-time "premium member" numbers group ravage your area, and tell folks what you think then.

[+Manville Possum]

- Wait until you get to see a long-time "premium member" numbers group ravage your area, and tell folks what you think then.

 

Or the first "tftc".

[+Mudfrog]

I have hidden two caches, with a few more in the planning and almost implemented stages, part of a local series. They are PMO. And it's not so much wanting "less visits to the cache" as it is wanting quality vistis to the cache(s) that I place.

This thinking is unusual (to me)...

You're saying that by simply coughing up money adds "quality" to finders, and somehow makes one more trustworthy ?

- Wait until you get to see a long-time "premium member" numbers group ravage your area, and tell folks what you think then.

It's certainly not an absolute but being premium can help. The majority of cache maggots won't pony up the money just so they can destroy or steal caches. Paying members make mistakes but usually aren't deliberately trying to cause other cachers grief.

[+dprovan]

You're saying that by simply coughing up money adds "quality" to finders, and somehow makes one more trustworthy ?

I don't speak for CAVinoGal, but I assume the thinking is the reverse: that not paying for a premium membership makes it more likely the seeker is unfamiliar with geocaching etiquette and responsibilities.

 

- Wait until you get to see a long-time "premium member" numbers group ravage your area, and tell folks what you think then.

Yes, everyone can be bad. No one's pretending making the cache PMO makes it immune to abuse. And, just to be clear, everyone recognizes that most non-PMO seekers are perfectly trustworthy and reliable. This is entirely a statistical thing.

[+JL_HSTRE]

PMO usually keeps the cache maggots away, but with the current app system pushing Premium I suspect it is far less useful than it used to be for keeping newbies away.

[+Manville Possum]

PMO usually keeps the cache maggots away, but with the current app system pushing Premium I suspect it is far less useful than it used to be for keeping newbies away.

 

Puh-Pow! Bull's eye. 😺

[+cerberus1]

PMO usually keeps the cache maggots away, but with the current app system pushing Premium I suspect it is far less useful than it used to be for keeping newbies away.

 

Puh-Pow! Bull's eye. 😺

+1

Many new (app) cachers in this area are starting out as pms. We didn't see that happen years ago.

- Yet some here say that they won't "pony up". Go figure...

[+cerberus1]

PMO usually keeps the cache maggots away, but with the current app system pushing Premium I suspect it is far less useful than it used to be for keeping newbies away.

 

Puh-Pow! Bull's eye. 😺

+1

Many new (app) cachers in this area are starting out as pms. We didn't see that happen years ago.

- Yet some here say that they won't "pony up". Go figure...

Fortunately, most our remaining hides are higher Terrain.

- We can't get the long-time players out to those anymore much less the town kids.

[+kunarion]

Unlike my previous threads, this one is a discussion thread without an agenda or idea.

 

I'm personally in 2 minds. While I personally prefer keeping caches (at least the ones on my old account, I have one unpublished hide for my new account) for everyone, I can see why others might want their caches to be premium member only.

Of my nearly fifty caches, four are PMO, and two of those were already PMO when I adopted them.

 

One was in an area where caches were once trashed by normals (non-cachers), and certainly by a few cachers as well. Previously, that ammo box was opened and dragged along the edge of a forested area at a soccer field, leaving swag and everything else in a trail along the way. So who knows, but it looked more like a toddler did that, than someone with designs to ruin caches.

 

That entire area was eventually devoid of caches, so I made my new one PMO. This way, someone just now installing the App while bored at a soccer game would not have immediate directions to the cache. And because I wanted no normals to find it ever by accident, I invented a very special camo I had not seen before, and hid it in a way that most cachers are not going to spot quickly. High Difficulty, of course. And I made it a Chirp cache to further limit it to the most adventurous, so of course the cache icon is “?” that many cachers skip. Many layers for that cache, PMO is just one layer. It was that or an empty forest.

 

The others are elsewhere, but all four of my PMO caches are very quiet. They don't do a lot of business. As mentioned, “PMO” of itself in no way guarantees excellence of caching experience. But there is that one cache that you could find exactly as I intend.

Edited July 9, 2017 by kunarion

[+Harry Dolphin]

That entire area was eventually devoid of caches, so I made my new one PMO. This way, someone just now installing the App while bored at a soccer game would not have immediate directions to the cache. And because I wanted no normals to find it ever by accident, I invented a very special camo I had not seen before, and hid it in a way that most cachers are not going to spot quickly. High Difficulty, of course. And I made it a Chirp cache to further limit it to the most adventurous, so of course the cache icon is “?” that many cachers skip. Many layers for that cache, PMO is just one layer. It was that or an empty forest.

You would be surprised what normals might find! I had a three-staged multi about a mile in with three hundred feet of climb. Then a few hundred feet off the trail, up the rock ridge through thorns. Then down off the ridge. The cache was hidden in the rocks under the ridge. When I hiked into remove it, it had been last found by muggles! Who left an Elvis Presley cigarette light and some sparklers! Not geocachers. They never logged the find. And, no. It was not PM.

[+Mudfrog]

PMO usually keeps the cache maggots away, but with the current app system pushing Premium I suspect it is far less useful than it used to be for keeping newbies away.

 

Puh-Pow! Bull's eye. 😺

+1

Many new (app) cachers in this area are starting out as pms. We didn't see that happen years ago.

- Yet some here say that they won't "pony up". Go figure...

Just to be clear,,, i mean that people who stumble upon the app and then think for some reason, "i could cause havoc with other people's hidden boxes", probably aren't ponying up just for this reason.

 

Don't know about numbers, but because of Groundspeak's business decision to make the app more lacking, i do have a feeling more newbies are paying sooner to see what they're missing. I'm just not sure if this is a good plan since it seems few people are sticking with it.

[+CAVinoGal]

You're saying that by simply coughing up money adds "quality" to finders, and somehow makes one more trustworthy ?

I don't speak for CAVinoGal, but I assume the thinking is the reverse: that not paying for a premium membership makes it more likely the seeker is unfamiliar with geocaching etiquette and responsibilities.

Yes, I am making some basic assumptions (valid or not) that premium members are a bit more "geocache saavy" than basic members, and those seeking a PMO cache are less likely to vandalize or ruin it for others.

 

I haven't seen many finds on my recent hides, and that's OK. The few I have had are pretty satisfying, to me as a CO. I'd rather have a few very positive finds and logs than multiple generic logs and a cache go missing ... in the end, it's a game. We each play it our own way. If I can get someone out to my neck of the woods and they discover new things, it's all good. I'm also discovering new trails and places in an area I've lived in for 30+ years, but seen in a new way due to geocaching.

 

Dprovan had my thinking nailed - a PM means (usually, not a hard and fast rule though) someone who knows the ins and outs of geocaching and is willing to "follow the rules", moreso than a basic member. No guarantee, of course, but the odds are ...

[+narcissa]

We have found that placing difficult caches is a more effective tactic for weeding out low quality cachers. While I find it beneficial to pay for premium site services, I don't feel a need to push others to do so.

[+OneEighth]

I have one hide an it is Premium Only. It took a good amount of time, effort, and money to put it together and it is a bit difficult. Just thought it a good idea.

[+valhalla73]

I live in an area where most of the caches around here have been muggled/stolen or damaged in some way over the years. I adopted some a few months ago, all were basic member caches and quite a few of them were missing with long lists of DNF logs. I reinstated them and made them all PMO, I have also placed a few new caches all PMO now too and since then only 1 has been stolen but it looked more like an animal (fox) that took it. They are all getting regular visits now and I have been getting good feedback about them

Im not forcing anyone to buy a PM but i feel this was the right decision for this area and for me. My caches will be staying PMO